quote:

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On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

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On the other hand, bin Laden has publically confessed guilt in the 9/11 attacks on his videotapes.

[ 18 June 2006: Message edited by: Bobolink ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bobolink:

On the other hand, bin Laden has publically confessed guilt in the 9/11 attacks on his videotapes.

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Who knew that former Iraqi ambassador, Tariq Aziz, would become a key witness in Saddam's defence?. I think Saddam's trial, like Slobodan Milosovich's trial, has turned into a kangaroo court. Saddam is winning his trial as was Milosovich before his captors murdered him.

quote:

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Originally posted by otter:
Maintaining the FEAR is what is most important...the 'truth' will always vary depending on who is doing the telling.

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From Ogrish.com – “Al-Qaeda released a video on the internet Tuesday [06-20-06] showing what al-Qaeda claims was the planned 20th hijacker in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

It is funny, I watched part of The Corporation last night and saw the bit where US industrialists and conservatives had hoped to use a general to mount a coup de'tat against, FDR. And of course there were the plans to blow a plane out of the air and blame it on the Cubans.

Yet some people want to believe a guy in a cave with liver disorder leads a global terrorist empire that carried out a coordinated and sophisticated attack against several targets and with the good fortune of much of the defence forces tied up with war games focused on hi-jacked planes -- the very weapon used.

Yeah, what a coincidence.

And that "second Pearl Harbour" was exactly what the neo-cons needed to put the wheels in motion of their plan for global dominance as outlined in PNAC.

Given the many times that I have seen and admired Barbara Olson on Larry King Live, I do not believe that she would knowingly participate in that sort of a hoax and spend the rest of her life – without her husband and family – in some sort of witness protection program.

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Given the many times that I have seen and admired Barbara Olson on Larry King Live, I do not believe that she would knowingly participate in that sort of a hoax and spend the rest of her life – without her husband and family – in some sort of witness protection program.

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as per FM

quote:

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the good fortune of much of the defence forces tied up with war games focused on hi-jacked planes -- the very weapon used.

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How hard do you beleive it is to make a plane disappear when they are running wargames on just that?

It's hard to tell, but I doubt you have done the research that some have on this board... Have you done the reading behind this or are you critisizing before knowing as much as you can?

[ 22 June 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

The key questions, in my mind, are: 1) Did American Airlines Flight 77 depart Washington for Los Angeles on the morning of September 11, 2001? 2) Were there 58 passengers and six crew members on that plane as listed in the manifest? 3) Were any of those people heard from or seen again after the explosion at the Pentagon? 4} Was it American Airlines Flight 77 that plowed into the Pentagon that morning? 5) Or, was the Pentagon hit by a missile fired from a U.S. military jet?

Bottom line: What happened to American Airlines Flight 77 and the 64 people on board?

You might start with this from CNN and Associated Press.

CREW: Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer. Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis. Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis. Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.

PASSENGERS: Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California. M.J. Booth no details. Bernard Brown, 11, student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, an employee of Cisco Systems Inc. William Caswell no details.

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia Cottom, 11, student at Backus Middle School in Washington. James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. Rodney Dickens, 11, a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. Eddie Dillard no details. Charles Droz no details.

Barbara Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas. Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. Zoe Falkenberg, 8, daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham. Dana Falkenberg, 3, daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson, director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot. Dee Flagg no details. Richard Gabriel no details. Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm. Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California. Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company. Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California. Yvonne Kennedy no details.

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager. Karen A. Kincaid, 40, a Washington lawyer, was married to Peter Batacan. Norma Langsteuerle no details.Dong Lee no details.

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm. Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits. He was married and had two children.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer. Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems. Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer. John Sammartino no details. Diane Simmons no details. George Simmons no details.

Some interesting stuff to consider though, as there Were lots of WhiteHouse lies afterwords (re lack of intercepts for example) which do raise some valid questions. Could be Other reasons for that too though, like standard bureaucratic covering for incompetence, or even closed eyes Re Carlyle groups close links to the bin Laden's. (another once-common conspiracy angle BTW that now seems to be forgotten)

[ 22 June 2006: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Prove bin Laden was involved and that he heads an organization called Al Qaeda.

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ROFL!

Prove that there is a reality independent of your perception of it.

Prove that I'm not dreaming you, this forum, my computer and my physical existence.

Prove that George Bush is not Osama Bin Laden's twin with a lot of plastic surgery.

Prove that both Bush presidencies were/are not a Saudi Arabian plot to take over Muslim countries using the US military as their proxy.

Prove that Osama Bin Laden is not a cuban exile named Miguel Sanchez.

Prove that Margaret Thatcher is a woman. What evidence do you have?

LMAO!

Margaret Thatcher is a man.

Do you have pictures of her naked, to prove she is a woman? But, pictures can be faked so...

Do you have a report from a gynecologist testifying that she is a woman? Reports can be faked and doctors can be bribed, so...

Have you personally seen her naked? Appearances can be deceiving so...

Have you examined her body with your hands, and personally confirmed she is a woman? No?

Osama bin Laden says that he knows Moussaoui was not involved in the Septemeber 11th plot, because he (bin Laden) personally assigned the roles of each of the 19 persons involved.

But...the internationally acknowledged leader of Al Qaeda personally claiming to have assigned duties to the Sept 11 plotters still doesn't prove that there is an Al Qaeda, that bin Laden is it's leader, that bin Laden had final say over the Sept 11 plot, that there was a Sept 11 plot, that any planes flew into any buildings...

Robert - prove that numbers exist. If you can't, then there are no numbered companies...

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert MacBain:
OK. I can't table the actual numbers of those numbered companies. But I do know from confidential sources that bin Laden is directly linked to those South American sugar companies Sven referred to. And you know I can't reveal my sources. They'd be taken out by the CIA.

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LOL!

Sorry...I know that you & Sven were supporting me, but I just can't get over my fascination with extreme skepticism. At least, I think it's me that can't let go of it...these thoughts I'm having could belong to George Bush or Osama bib Laden...if only I could be certain!

Which just about beats this nag to death, I'd say.

quote:

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Prove that George Bush is not Osama Bin Laden's twin with a lot of plastic surgery.

Prove that both Bush presidencies were/are not a Saudi Arabian plot to take over Muslim countries using the US military as their proxy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yossarian:
I dunno, I kind of like those ones. Although I'd go with Bush and Ahmadinejad as twins. The resemblance is even stronger than it is with bin Laden.

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Actually, it works better if the Bush presidencies are a plot by the Kuwaitis to take over Muslim nations using the US as a proxy.

Remember that it was the Emir of Kuwait that funded the Reagan campaigns "arms for hostages" deal with Iran that got Reagan elected, with Shrub-prime as VP. Then Shrub1 bails out Kuwait during his presidency...and now GW Shrub has completely taken out Saddam and is working on proxy governments in Afghanistan & Iraq...

ooooeeeoooo! It must all be true! The Kuwaitis are taking over the Muslim world using Bush & US military as their muscle.

[ 23 June 2006: Message edited by: Rgaiason ]

quote:

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Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Ah yes, but only a Handful of victims at most, a handful of active participants posited, and you know, the bullet didn't Have to be 'magic' according to more modern understanding of trigonometry and forensics.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rgaiason:
"An audiotape allegedly made by Osama bin Laden surfaced May 23 in which the al Qaeda leader says Zacarias Moussaoui, the alleged 20th hijacker on Sept. 11, was not involved in that plot and that bin Laden himself personally assigned the roles for each of the 19 "brothers" involved".

Osama bin Laden says that he knows Moussaoui was not involved in the Septemeber 11th plot, because he (bin Laden) personally assigned the roles of each of the 19 persons involved.

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- ??

The first paragraph is an unsourced news report. The second paragraph is your paraphrase of an unsourced news report - a paraphrase that, moreover, unquestioningly accepts its truth - ?

Uh sorry, but who exactly are you to be evaluating this information for others ??

quote:

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But...the internationally acknowledged leader of Al Qaeda personally claiming to have assigned duties to the Sept 11 plotters still doesn't prove that there is an Al Qaeda, that bin Laden is it's leader, that bin Laden had final say over the Sept 11 plot, that there was a Sept 11 plot, that any planes flew into any buildings...

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Uh, yeah. That's right. Not much of anything has been "proven" yet... sorry you're having such a hard time with that concept.

I think it's funny that people whose only possible sources of information can be the news think that they have some kind of inside authority on the "truth" of these events. As if the news is:
1. true
2. complete
3. disinterested
4. authoritative

quote:

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Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Well some experts apparently disagree still, but the Kennedy assassination has little to do with this either way. A conspiracy being possible doesn't make them true and it isn't proof for Others.

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quote:

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he FBI lab that analysed the Zapruder Film, worked out that the gap between the first and last must be between five and six seconds. Three shells where found next to the gun that Oswald had apparently used to kill Kennedy, so the Warren Report concluded that only three shots had been fired.

This means that Oswald would have had to fire three shots in five to six seconds.

One shot missed the motorcade, one shot was the fatal headshot, and so all the other wounds must have been caused by the one remaining bullet. So according to the Warren Report, a magic bullet:

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• Entered Kennedy's back at an angle of 17°
• Then moved up to leave Kennedy's neck
• Waited 1.6 seconds
• Turned right, then left, then right, then left
• Then it entered Connally at the rear of his right armpit
• Headed down at an angle of 27°, doing so it pierced a lung, severed a vein, an artery and a nerve, and shattered his right fifth rib.
• Exited the right side of his chest
• Turned right
• Entered Connally's right wrist
• It 'U' turned and buried itself in his left thigh

ETA: Consider Occam's Razor and Oswald's only public comment on the matter, "I'm being made a patsy."

In all my youth spent hunting and skinning deer and the moose our little rod 'n gun club of the north ever brought down, I never once discovered a bullet shot from a rifle that wasn't mushroomed or misshapen after it struck a bone in the animal. The theory is weak and highly improbable as far as I'm concerned.

[ 24 June 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]