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» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » Tyson Strike in Brooks, AB

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Author Topic: Tyson Strike in Brooks, AB
slimpikins
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posted 09 October 2005 07:45 PM      Profile for slimpikins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Approximately 2000 workers at Tyson's Lakeside Packers beef plant in Brooks, AB, are set to go on strike on Wednesday October 12, 2005 at 6:00 am. Some may remember how these same workers were set to strike about 2 months ago and were ordered back to work by the Alberta Conservative Government, which created a Disputes Inquiry Board consisting of one person to attempt to resolve the issue.

The mediator's report is completed, and the workers voted 90% in favour of it. However, Tyson rejected it and put a new offer on the table that is actually worse than their previous offer that sparked the aborted strike this summer. Tyson is now asking the provincial government to force the workers to vote on this proposal under the Alberta Labour code. The code allows for an employer to demand a Labour Board supervised vote on it's final offer one time during negotiations for a collective agreement. If the Board conducts a vote on this offer, it will likely be rejected by the members.

Tyson states in releases to it's 'team members' that they cannot accept the DIB report because such clauses as overtime meals, vacation pay, union security, seniority, and basic human rights are too costly. Unionized Cargill Foods in High River has these exact same clauses in it's collective agreement and conducts virtually the same operations as Lakeside Packers.

In order to 'keep the peace', about 60 RCMP officers from across Alberta, BC and Saskatchewan have been pulled from their regular duties and are set to arrive in Brooks on Tuesday night. (It would be a great time to rob a bank in Alberta, as the RCMP are usually spread pretty thin at the best of times.)

Both sides are bracing for what could be a very violent and prolonged dispute. Previously, a former member of management - 'demoted' into the bargaining unit mere days after the Union was certified - was convicted of assaulting a Union rep. There are numerous allegations of racist comments, spitting on workers, and sexual comments towards female Union members by this man. Other allegations of assault committed by members of management are currently before the courts or the Labour Board.

The workers at Lakeside Packers, members of UFCW Local 401, are determined to get a first collective agreement. Tyson is determined to bust the Union. Please help the workers in their fight for dignity, respect, and basic human rights. To find out how, check out the following web sites.

web page
web page


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 09 October 2005 08:50 PM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Interesting. My nephew actually works at Lakeside Packers in a middle-management type position that was previously outside the union, but was recently reclassified inside. He doesn't want to strike, but then again, he doesn't work on the killing floor.

Tyson has brought in a lot of black workers, Somalis I believe, to supplement their workforce and do a lot of the shitty jobs that Canadians don't want to do, (At least at $11.00 an hour.) This has fostered a mushroom effect of racism in Brooks, with all kinds of local problems being blamed on these people. Even my own sister (my nephew's mom who also lives in Brooks) has recently indulged in this racist bullshit, which really pisses me off because I thought she was above that.


From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
slimpikins
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posted 10 October 2005 02:05 AM      Profile for slimpikins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Most of the black workers are Sudanese, although there are some Somalis as well. I grew up in Brooks, and the packing plant has always had a mainly immigrant workforce. When I was a little kid, they were mostly Eastern European, then they were displaced by the Vietnamese, who were in turn displaced by the Newfies (technically not immigrants, despite what most people in Brooks would say ). Now, the plant is a mix of Sudanese, Middle Eastern Muslims, Newfies, and a few good old boys from Brooks. Some of the locals who work at the plant are against the Union because they feel that a Union would hinder them in getting the better jobs in the plant, such as supervisor, lead hand, or anything that doesn't involve getting covered with blood or shit all day, which until now have been pretty much handed out to the white english speaking folks.

Although I don't live in Brooks anymore (moved when I was fired by Lakeside 6 years ago and now work full time for the Union that is organizing the workers there), I feel a lot of solidarity with the workers there who are trying to make Lakeside a better place to work and Brooks a better place to live.

The reasons for Unionizing are different with each of the ethnic groups. The new Canadians want job security so that they can plan for the future without worrying about getting fired for no reason. They feel that if they have job security they can get a mortgage, sponsor family members to come to Canada, have children, and set down roots in Brooks. This has some of the longer term residents in Brooks a little uneasy. The east coasters and other white folks who have come here from other parts of Canada mainly want higher wages, as they generally don't see themselves as working there for a long time and want to put a few bucks together so they can go to school, start a business, move somewhere else, etc.

Is there racism in Brooks? Sure there is. However, I have been down there off and on for years working to get the Union in the plant and the mood in the town is starting to shift. At first the attitude was pretty much along the lines of 'those people are lucky to be in Canada and lucky to have a job, they should just shut up and do what they are told and be grateful that they aren't in their own country'. However, Lakeside has been getting worse and worse, and lots of the locals are starting to understand exactly what some of the workers there are going through.


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 10 October 2005 11:32 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
The DIB recommendations rejected by Tyson included a $12/hour starting wage increasing to about $15/hour if you managed to last three years. This Arkansas based company pocketed at least $33 million in direct taxpayer dollars for its packer-owned cattle during the BSE crisis. Not only that but Alberta's Auditor General found that their profits quadrupled during the same period.

But this strike has never been about Tyson paying its employees doing this dangerous, dirty and demanding work a fair wage. It's been about union-busting plain and simple, aided and abetted by Alberta's notoriously unfair labour laws.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 12 October 2005 10:12 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
Just got back from the first day of the Tyson strike. First day was successful. Nobody got into the plant. However, Tyson is already in court seeking an injunction to limit picketing.

Alberta has no first contract arbitration and no anti-scab legislation whatsoever. Only in Alberta can a determined anti-union employer use every tactic regardless of legality to keep its employees from exercising their democratic right to belong to a union, and on top of that also get injunctions that limit the union's ability to put economic pressure on that employer.

I encourage any and all babblers to show solidarity by putting in a few hours on the picket lines. Tyson-owned Lakeside (Canada's largest beef packing plant) is right off the Trans-Canada about 5 km west of Brooks.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 12 October 2005 10:52 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by John K:
{lots of interesting stuff, ending with}

I encourage any and all babblers to show solidarity by putting in a few hours on the picket lines. Tyson-owned Lakeside (Canada's largest beef packing plant) is right off the Trans-Canada about 5 km west of Brooks.


The workers would welcome private, non-union affiliated people just stumping by and offering to hold a picket sign? Really?

What's your involvement John K? Journalist?

Thanks to everyone keeping us up to date on this important issue. I can't get over the laid back (contemptuous?) attitude of Tyson's owners. Canadian journalists are telephoning the head office in Arkansas to get the company's reaction. Really, you'd think the owners might want to NOT project the foreign ownership angle so obviously, given its potential inflammatory role.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
lucas
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posted 13 October 2005 10:23 AM      Profile for lucas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"... Only in Alberta can a determined anti-union employer use every tactic regardless of legality to keep its employees from exercising their democratic right to belong to a union, and on top of that also get injunctions that limit the union's ability to put economic pressure on that employer..."

I always thought that a union was able to exert economic pressure by withholding its labour, causing the employer to suffer work slow-downs and thus a drop in productivity leading to decreased revenue. I've never really understood the justification for the window smashing and the prevention of vehicles from entering or leaving an establishment.

As for the RCMP presence, I think the actions on the picket line yesterday show the high possibility of violence down the road if both sides keep enflaming the other. Based on the reports I read, the RCMP observed yesterday with very little interaction. I would think that both sides would want some kind of outside party to ensure things don't get out of hand and people wind up hurt. I am certain nobody, on either side, wants any injuries at the end of the day.


From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 13 October 2005 02:56 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought the streets in Albera were paid with gold. Hey, the wages are so high in Alberta that apparently they have a hard time retaining people, so they have to pay people more. Why strike for better pay when you can simply find a higher paying job?

Seriously though, it seems these incidents would show that Alberta isn't the economic heaven it's made out to be.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Soul Rebel
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posted 13 October 2005 04:04 PM      Profile for Soul Rebel        Edit/Delete Post
You know, anyone familiar with the post WW II history of Quebec might see parallels between the "Duplessis Era" of the 1940s and 1950s and the Kleindom of Alberta. Duplessis cultivated the image of the plain-speaking, "man-of-the-people" but was in reality authoritarian and anti-union. Sound familiar?

Unfortunately, I don't get any sense of a simmering "Quiet Revolution" about to come to boil in the Kleindom of Alberta. Albertans taking a stand to seize control of their economic destiny and creating our own meat packing plants to process our own beef and set up plants that pay their workers a decent wage and give them decent benefits? Yeah right. That'll happen when provincial politicians increase our take of royalties from the American dominated oil industry.

The workers at Tyson Foods have my full support. From what I gather from news reports, the workers played fair all along and were overwhelmingly in favour of the recommendations that a provincially appointed mediator had made. Tyson's management rejected that and then put forth their own recommendations for a contract that they knew would be rejected.

I just wish all the cowboys and cowgirls in this province who are advocating separation from Canada would have the guts to stand on two proud legs in front of American capitalism instead of bending over, assuming the thank you position, and then letting U.S. companies dictate the economic future of this province.


From: Calgary | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 13 October 2005 11:19 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What's your involvement John K? Journalist?

I don't think it's any great secret that I work for the NDP Opposition at the Alberta Legislature. I was attending the picket-line with two of our MLAs including our leader.

In terms of Siren's comment on attending picket-lines, I've showed up at dozens of lines over the years to show solidarity and support, and have never once failed to be warmly welcomed. Upon arriving, please make sure to check in with a picket captain first however.

And in light of the injunction (argh) restricting the number of pickets, you may wish to call UFCW Local 401 (1-800-252-7975).

With all due respect to Lucas, I found your comments ill-informed. Despite all the smoke coming out of Tyson's Springdale, Arkansas HQ, like Walmart this company is determined not accept a union in their workplace under any circumstances. Alberta's (anti)labour laws allow anti-union employers to make this decision, rather than basing it on a democratic decision of the employees themselves. Moreover, Alberta's labour laws create the climate for picket-line violence.

Finally the window got smashed only after the Tyson bus ran over several picketers resulting in minor injuries.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 14 October 2005 12:07 AM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for all the information re. contacting the Union, picket captain and the low down on how people got hurt. This is an important issue for Alberta.


quote:
Originally posted by John K:

I don't think it's any great secret that I work for the NDP Opposition at the Alberta Legislature. I was attending the picket-line with two of our MLAs including our leader.


Well, now that is just odd. I didn't notice any mention of Brian Mason or any other NDP member on the picket lines in our "fair and balanced" media. Hmmm.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
melovesproles
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posted 14 October 2005 01:43 AM      Profile for melovesproles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I worked eight months at Lakeside when I got out of highschool, it was undoubtably the worst job I have ever had and I had it easier than alot of others. The degree to which workers were treated like disposable cogs to be abused really impressed me and it has shaped my views more than maybe any other episode of my life. About a week before I quit there was a vote on unionizing which I of course voted for but it failed. That was six years ago or so now, I'm back in BC now but I read about this in the Metro the other day and have been thinking about it a lot. Brooks has serious issues, I'm not sure if there are many other places in Canada where the issues of class, race, and the potential for violence are as tightly wound as they are in Brooks. Certainly nowhere I have ever been. Its nice to hear that the community might be beginning to be swayed towards supporting unionization of the plant, that definately was not the environment when I was there. My thoughts are with the workers of Lakeside, I agree with some of the above posters that this is an extremely important fight.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: melovesproles ]


From: BC | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
lucas
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posted 14 October 2005 10:10 AM      Profile for lucas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
John K, thanks for the explanation. Perhaps I am ill-informed, which is likely why I am reading this thread. I guess I am equally unimpressed with both sides of this dispute. Lakeside appears to be doing all it can to avoid having to actually settle this issue, and the union seems bent on doing the picket line 'old school'.

As to your comment "Moreover, Alberta's labour laws create the climate for picket-line violence", are you saying that we can't expect those on the picket line to choose non-violence? That the union will be violent and that is simply not their fault... that it is due to the climate created by labour laws? Just looking for clarification. Thanks.


From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
pink
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posted 14 October 2005 01:51 PM      Profile for pink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lucas:

As to your comment "Moreover, Alberta's labour laws create the climate for picket-line violence", are you saying that we can't expect those on the picket line to choose non-violence? That the union will be violent and that is simply not their fault... that it is due to the climate created by labour laws? Just looking for clarification. Thanks.


I think the point is that while violence on the picket line may not be the answer, following the rules - as set by Alberta Labour Law - is an almost surefire way for a union to fail.

Every single aspect of the Alberta Labour Code is set up to make it very hard to form a union and get a first contract. It's a minor miracle unions exist in Alberta at all in the current legal context.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
lucas
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posted 14 October 2005 02:27 PM      Profile for lucas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"... Every single aspect of the Alberta Labour Code is set up to make it very hard to form a union and get a first contract...."

Can you explain why? Specifically what is it about the code that makes this all so difficult? Also, if the union picket line does not follow the rules, and the company does not follow the rules... is this simply a case of seeing who blinks first?

Thanks again, I am finding this all very informative.


From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
pink
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posted 14 October 2005 03:31 PM      Profile for pink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm not going to go through the whole code, but I'll give you a few examples.

1) No first contract arbitration. It's been a long truism of labour relations that the hardest contract to achieve is the first one after a group of workers decides to join a union. In BC and other provinces, if bargaining fails to reach a first contract, either party has the right to apply to the Labour Board for an appointed arbitrator to impose a basic, bare bones contract. It's understood that the employees won't get any grand improvements, but employers won't get any rollbacks. Things like seniority are generally put into these contracts. No strike or lockout behaviour is allowed while the arbitration is going on.

2) 'Cooling off' period. In the Alberta code, the government can order a 60 day cooling off period in which no strike or lockout activity can occour. In the Lakeside example, this allowed the employer to 'run out the clock' because no decertification attempt can take place until a certain amount of time has passed after the union is formed. The government could, I suppose, use this to the union's benefit when an employer wants to have a lockout, but it's never happened that way.

3) There is no one working in the health care field that has the right to strike. I believe the same holds true for the education sector.

4) There is no right to refuse to cross a picket line, as exists in other jurisdictions. That means that unless a union negotiates this into their contracts - their members cannot refuse to cross a picket line without threat of being fired. In other jurisdictions, you can refuse, and your employer doesn't have to pay you, but your job is secure.

5) It is much easier to decertify from your union, or for one union to raid another union in Alberta than almost anywhere else.

6) No automatic certification. In Manitoba and Quebec, if a union signs up a certain percentage of a workforce (I think it's 70%), there does not have to be a vote, the union is automatically recognized. This removes the employer's ability to threaten employees with firings or layoffs in the run up to a union vote.

7) How could I forget - no anti-scab legislation. Even BC under Campbell has maintained legislation that says an employer cannot hire someone new to do the job of a striking or locked out employee. You can scab your own job (cross your own union's picket line), but the employer can't bring in new workers. Even Gordon Campbell has admitted that imported replacement workers increase violence on picket lines, and increase the length of strikes. Quebec and I think Manitoba also have anti-scab legislation.

I assure you that these are just a few examples of the piss poor labour code we have in Alberta. It is no accident that strikes here tend to be longer, they tend to be more bitter, and they tend to be less successful than in other provinces.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 14 October 2005 09:49 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
Thanks Pink. Excellent synopsis.

Several recent Rick Bell columns in the Calgary Sun give a good overview of the rottenness of Alberta's labour laws as well as the fraudulent nature of Ralph Klein's claim to be a champion of the little guy. Today's column 'Unequal fight' is particularly spot on.
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Bell_Rick/


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionmama
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posted 14 October 2005 10:27 PM      Profile for unionmama   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Union sisters and brothers in the U.S. are right behind the strikers and are so grateful for everyone in Canada who is supporting them. Tyson's greed is really unbelievable. They have a storied history of union busting and outrageous bargaining positions here in the States. It breaks my heart to see what they are doing to the workers in Brooks, especially to immigrant workers. My husband is a native of Saskatoon, now working in Washington, DC with me. We're both doing everything we can to spread the word of their struggle to US consumers and supporters. Check out http://www.ufcw.org/press_room/index.cfm?pressReleaseID=183 to see the statement from the UFCW International Union issued today.
In solidarity,

From: Washington, DC | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 14 October 2005 10:37 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This seems a pretty clear case of supporting the workers or being an asshole.

For those of us far from the scene, the suggestion is made in the websites to boycott McDonalds.

My kids go to McDonalds (and force me to go, too) more often than they should, anyway.

No more. We're outta there until a fair contract is signed.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 14 October 2005 11:02 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
3) There is no one working in the health care field that has the right to strike. I believe the same holds true for the education sector.

This isn't quite true. For some reason, instructors at Mount Royal College in Calgary have the right to strike. Unless of course it's been taken away since 2003.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
pink
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posted 14 October 2005 11:32 PM      Profile for pink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My mistake. I meant to refer only to K-12. And even there, I'm not 100% sure they don't have the right to strike.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 14 October 2005 11:46 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
While there is a blanket prohibition on strikes in the health care sector, K-12 teachers in AB somewhat surprisingly still have the right to strike probably b/c they've engaged in job action very sparingly. The province of course can use the hammer of imposing a settlement through legislation. This was done in 2002 after teachers were only off the job for a few days in many cases. After the arbitrator recommended a settlement a bit richer than the government expected, the Tories got their revenge by refusing to fund the settlement leading to the lay-offs of thousands of teachers and support staff.

Interestingly, when it comes to Tyson though, the government refuses to legislate binding arbitration. And in Tyson's case, it wouldn't cost the government a cent.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 15 October 2005 12:10 AM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pink:
7) How could I forget - no anti-scab legislation. Even BC under Campbell has maintained legislation that says an employer cannot hire someone new to do the job of a striking or locked out employee. You can scab your own job (cross your own union's picket line), but the employer can't bring in new workers. Even Gordon Campbell has admitted that imported replacement workers increase violence on picket lines, and increase the length of strikes. Quebec and I think Manitoba also have anti-scab legislation.

As I am aware, the labour movement is trying to push Doer to pass anti-scab legislation.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 15 October 2005 12:39 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
My mistake. I meant to refer only to K-12.

Fair enough. Though I'm fairly sure Mount Royal College teachers are the only college or university instructors in the province who can strike. That was what I was told when I taught there in 2002-2003, anyhow.

Bargaining had gone on for something like a year and a half, with little progress. In Feb. 2003, there was a strike vote. Turnout was around 85%, with 93% of those voting to strike. The contract was settled within a few weeks.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 15 October 2005 02:36 AM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is unfucking believable:

Leader of Meatpackers strike in hospital

If this "accident" is connected to this strike in any way, even King Ralph will have a hard time defending this one. Especially if charges are laid. Does anyone know anything more about this?

And they say Unions in Canada have too much power ....


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 15 October 2005 03:00 AM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From a lonely worker's link:

quote:
Brooks, Alta. — The man leading the strike at a southern Alberta meat-packing plant is in hospital after a car crash.

An official with Palliser Health confirmed Friday night that Doug O'Halloran was in Brooks hospital in stable condition and undergoing diagnostic testing.

Spokeswoman Sheri Wright said he was “still in emergency. He's the only person who was brought in.”

RCMP issued a news release saying that four people had been arrested after a three-vehicle collision.


How extremely lucky that no one in the other 2 vehicles required a trip to the hospital.

quote:
Prior to his accident, Mr. O'Halloran acknowledged pickets were trying to stop a bus carrying supervisors and other employees as it left the southeastern Alberta plant on Thursday night.

He said a number of people got off and started punching 10 pickets.

“Basically our people were outnumbered three-to-one,” he said. “One of the individuals was lying on the ground and was being kicked by one of the supervisors. It had the potential to escalate into something really bad.”


Ugly. Hope the reporters can cover it adequately.

[ 15 October 2005: Message edited by: siren ]


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 15 October 2005 02:38 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Holy. Shit.
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 15 October 2005 03:58 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
Links to two sources of up to date information:

From Calgary Herald: "Union officials tried to diffuse a tense situation on the picket line Friday night, after a car crash near the Brooks meat packing plant sent union president Doug O'Halloran to hospital.

"There is a lot of emotion right now, some people want retaliation but we don't want that, not here," said union official Al Cull, shortly after the crash.

Police are continuing to investigate the incident that occurred around 6 p.m. which saw three vehicles, including O'Halloran's smashed-up SUV, wind up in the ditch just behind the rear entrance of the Tyson Foods meat processing plant.

Four individuals were arrested, however, no charges had been laid at press time."
http://tinyurl.com/czevj

I have it on good authority that those arrested were all Lakeside managers, 3 of them senior managers, who rammed O'Halloran's vehicle into the ditch in order to serve him with the court injunction.

Also, today's Rick Bell column in the Calgary Sun is well worth a read:
http://calsun.canoe.ca/Columnists/home.html

[ 15 October 2005: Message edited by: John K ]


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 October 2005 04:09 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How can someone be arrested without charges being laid? I thought that that was part of being arrested -- being told what you were arrested for?

Anyway, this sounds like an explosion that was just waiting to happen. I don't know whether Klein can wake up any more, but I really hope that Albertans do -- and Canadians more broadly, given how central that plant is to the whole country.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 15 October 2005 05:42 PM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
How can someone be arrested without charges being laid? I thought that that was part of being arrested -- being told what you were arrested for?
Ha ha ha. Yeah, right. Maybe if you have it on videotape. Probably think they tell you that you have the right to communicate with legal council of your choice and if you cannot afford one, one will be provided for you. Next you will be telling me they need to provide you with access to a telephone.

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 15 October 2005 08:50 PM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
How can someone be arrested without charges being laid?

It doesn't say so in the article, but in the CBC video link it says that one can be held legally for up to 24 hours without charge. That surprised me too.


From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 16 October 2005 12:28 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
I think it's by now been well-reported that 5 senior officials of Tyson/Lakeside have now been charged with dangerous driving in a vehicle crash that injured the local union president.

Pretty cheesy for the RCMP to simultaneously announce charges against O'Halloran for an incident that occurred at the very beginning of the strike on Wednesday morning, in which a window on a Tyson bus was cracked after it had run over several picketers causing minor injuries. I was on the scene on Wednesday morning, and believe me, this incident pales in comparison to the one that injured O'Halloran.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
pink
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posted 16 October 2005 12:40 PM      Profile for pink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From the Calgary Sun
quote:
High-ranking officials with Lakeside Packers have been charged in a car crash that hospitalized a leader of the union on strike at the meat-packing plant.

And from Sun columninst Rick Bell, who is becoming a 'must read' for anyone following this strike

quote:
For the umpteenth time, Ray Martin of the NDP, who was on the picket line during a vicious meatpacking strike in Edmonton in the eighties, calls on the premier to bring in the legislature to impose a binding contract.

"The premier has one last chance to prove he's still got a bit of regard for the little guy. Recall the legislature now, Mr. Klein," implores the MLA.



From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 October 2005 07:37 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Not just the company goons... er... "executives". O'Halloran has been charged as well, although for an earlier, and less serious, incident.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 16 October 2005 10:39 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This one's worth watching closely. Another bad sign.
From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 17 October 2005 02:58 AM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Another wonderful piece by Global tonight. In a promo for the News Hour, there was a bit on this.

The anchor said that four men had been charged after a car accident involving the union president.

It then mentioned that the president had been charged for breaking windows on a bus (or something to that affect).

That was all. It was not mentioned that the men charged were management

Slimpikens, you there? I hope to god a settlement can be reached soon.


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 17 October 2005 12:45 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post
Are these "replacement workers" hired locally or is Tyson bringing in "management" from other operations to help out.

Specifically,is Tyson bringing in American goons that have no right to work in Canada under the pretext of "management"?

Where is the CLC? Where is Ken Georgetti? Isn't this why he makes the big bucks?

The Tyson workers do not deserve to be abused,on the job or on strike.Anyone who has ever been in a packinghouse can understand this situation.


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 06:33 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlandist:
Are these "replacement workers" hired locally or is Tyson bringing in "management" from other operations to help out.

Specifically,is Tyson bringing in American goons that have no right to work in Canada under the pretext of "management"?

Where is the CLC? Where is Ken Georgetti? Isn't this why he makes the big bucks?

The Tyson workers do not deserve to be abused,on the job or on strike.Anyone who has ever been in a packinghouse can understand this situation.


The workers voted to join the union this past spring and won by a margin of only 51%. 49% voted not to join.

The workers that are being brought in are workers that already worked at the plant prior to the strike. Busing in workers is not new. A bus routinely picks up workers from Medicine Hat and carries them to Brooks daily and has been doing that for years now.

Also, I see mention of the car accident wherein management tried to run union president, O'Halloran, off the road but I see no reference to the fact that O'Halloran has been charged as well.

Seems as though he's been carrying a dangerous weapon and took part in the smashing of bus windows.

As to wages, the workers at Lakeside make more than $11.00 per hour.

"Highlights of Lakeside's contract proposal include a C$1 increase in the starting hourly wage to C$13 and increases of C$1.60 an hour in base wages over the course of the contract, which would move top hourly production pay to C$17.65 in slaughter and C$16.75 in processing, said the release. In addition, the offer would include a new top hourly wage rate of C$23.70 for power engineers. Lakeside has also proposed shortening the amount of time it takes a new worker to reach top wage rates."

See: http://www.thepioneer.com/agriculture/oct8_strike.htm

I am for the striking workers as well, however, after reading through this thread, I felt it necessary to clear up some of the things I've seen posted here.

Regards,

Lynn

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: LynnM ]


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 17 October 2005 06:44 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I am for the striking workers as well, however, after reading through this thread, I felt it necessary to clear up some of the things I've seen posted here.

Sure you are, Lynn, sure you are.

Rather than giving us the "highlights" of Lakeside's offer, why don't you tell us why Lakeside rejected the proposed terms of the mediator that they asked for?

Other posters have already noted that the RCMP chose to announce that they were laying charges against the union president for allegedly breaking a window, the same day they charged several managers with trying to kill the union president. Why don't you tell us if you think those alleged acts are equivalent?

Also, why don't you tell us if you'd like to work in a slaughterhouse for $11 an hour? Trust me, its not really a fun job.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 17 October 2005 06:56 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lynn said:

quote:
...I see no reference to the fact that O'Halloran has been charged as well...

And yet, Hephaestion said earlier up:

quote:
Not just the company goons... er... "executives". O'Halloran has been charged as well, although for an earlier, and less serious, incident.

The context for said incident? Well, let's ask John K, who said:

quote:
Pretty cheesy for the RCMP to simultaneously announce charges against O'Halloran for an incident that occurred at the very beginning of the strike on Wednesday morning, in which a window on a Tyson bus was cracked after it had run over several picketers causing minor injuries. I was on the scene on Wednesday morning, and believe me, this incident pales in comparison to the one that injured O'Halloran.

(And how about that, there's another reference to O'Halloran's arrest.)

Lynn also said she supports the workers. She just wants us to "clear up" a few things. Well, Lynn, why not comment on the context in which a bit of property got damaged, while workers got injured? And why all that info on wages -- and no mention of how Lakeside wouldn't go along with the proposed DIB settlement?

Maybe I'm just a little sensitive right now, seeing as how my local is in bargaining. Somehow, though, I'm not convinced of Lynn's support.

I think it merits re-stating John K's reflections on the "offer":

quote:
The DIB recommendations rejected by Tyson included a $12/hour starting wage increasing to about $15/hour if you managed to last three years. This Arkansas based company pocketed at least $33 million in direct taxpayer dollars for its packer-owned cattle during the BSE crisis. Not only that but Alberta's Auditor General found that their profits quadrupled during the same period.

But this strike has never been about Tyson paying its employees doing this dangerous, dirty and demanding work a fair wage. It's been about union-busting plain and simple, aided and abetted by Alberta's notoriously unfair labour laws.



From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 07:09 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:

Sure you are, Lynn, sure you are.

Rather than giving us the "highlights" of Lakeside's offer, why don't you tell us why Lakeside rejected the proposed terms of the mediator that they asked for?

Other posters have already noted that the RCMP chose to announce that they were laying charges against the union president for allegedly breaking a window, the same day they charged several managers with trying to kill the union president. Why don't you tell us if you think those alleged acts are equivalent?

Also, why don't you tell us if you'd like to work in a slaughterhouse for $11 an hour? Trust me, its not really a fun job.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


Thanks for the nice welcome, Robbie. What a nice moderator you are.

Tyson nixed the offer because it cut into their bottom line, that's why.

The workers are not asking for much. Their main concerns are safety oriented and they have good reason to be concerned. One couldn't pay me enough to work in that cesspool they call Lakeside Packers.

The bus windows were smashed on Thursday. There were many people striking and lots of commotion. It takes the RCMP some time to figure out who was doing what.

The car accident was Saturday. Both management and O'Halloran were charged on this day.

Are the acts equivalent?

Smashing a bus window with some guy sitting behind the steering wheel could have been serious. Trying to run someone off the road is very serious.

I'm not going to equate the two acts because they were both wrong.

Should a Union President be allowed to be driving around with a dangerous weapon showing Lakeside employees, most of whom are Sudanese and cannot speak English, that it's ok to smash things when you don't like what is going on?

Double standards in your part of the world are there, Robbie? Well there are no double standards in mine.

O'Halloran accused the RCMP of sending in a SWAT team and said they were waving their guns around. According to Cpl. Oakes, that was not true.

"Cpl. Oakes said extra police resources were called in, but he denied it was a riot squad and said no one was waving guns.

“That is absolutely false,” he said. “At no point in time last evening, at no point throughout this labour disruption, has any officer had occasion to draw or point a firearm.”

See: http://tinyurl.com/aktx3

I have been saying for years that those workers need a union, and contrary to your unfounded assumption, I am for the Lakeside workers and am boycotting Tyson Foods.

In Alberta, McDonalds and Costco buy their goods from Tyson.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 07:13 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
...and another nice welcome from Mersh.

Geepers - who knew that posting both sides of a story could create such animosity around these parts.

If you want to know where I stand, go ahead an ask me. You'll get an honest answer.

Bark at me and assume what you 'THINK' I mean, and I may bite back.

What? You guys see someone new around here and circle the prey? Is that how it works?

Regards,

Lynn


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
blacklisted
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posted 17 October 2005 07:14 PM      Profile for blacklisted     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
want a little background and context?
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=55078
""Tyson recruits workers from all over the world to bring them to work in their North American operations in a race to the bottom. Exploitation of a vulnerable immigrant workforce is part of their business plan. Now, it is particularly galling to see that the Tyson is allowing racially-motivated violence to take place on the picket line," continued Hansen.

Tyson's behavior in Alberta follows a pattern it sets in the United States -- doing everything in its power to lower wages, cut benefits and reduce workplace standards for employees, particularly immigrant workers. In 2003, Tyson forced long-time meat processing workers in Jefferson, Wis. onto picket lines for nearly one year in order to lower wage and benefit levels for unionized workers in the United States. In this instance, Tyson's message to the black immigrant workforce is clear: we brought you to this continent so that we can pay you less than native workers"
http://www.terribletyson.com/
"For more than a decade Tyson has operated Lakeside with some of the highest injury rates of any industrialized plant in North America. Many workers have been seriously injured and over the years scores of workers have been left with permanent injuries and disabilities from working the Lakeside line.

Lakeside workers recently formed a union and have asked Tyson to accept the same kind of collective agreement that protects workers at the Cargill packing plant in High River, Alberta and other plants in Canada. Tyson has refused, leaving workers with the bleak choice of having to strike, or returning to work at a reprehensible workhouse that has chewed through 100,000 workers over the last ten years."


From: nelson,bc | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 07:23 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, they are scum, blacklisted.

I have been known to refer to Tyson management as scum sucking bottom feeders.

Yet and still, it doesn't negate the fact that O'Halloran is not conducting himself properly in this.

The vote to join the union was marginal. The plant seems to be very divided and 1000 workers are willing to cross the picket line.

O'Halloran is out picketing and smashing bus windows. That kind of behaviour is not conducive to effective bargaining.

Some of the workers know why they are out there, but they still aren't sure what a union represents. They cannot speak English and some barely understand it.

This situation is very volatile and I hope it gets settled before someone gets seriously hurt.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 17 October 2005 07:32 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, 'scuse me. You claimed no one had even mentioned O'Halloran's arrest, when in fact people had -- in some detail, no less. You posted to a link that didn't really reflect the union's concerns at all, and honed in on the wage offer without any context. And you seem fixated on those bus windows, but nary a mention of the folks who were injured by said bus. Yet, you support the union.

Yes, you can be concerned about union leadership and whether or not it reflects the interests of rank and file members. But come on. Accusing us of "circling the prey" because we take issue with your posts is a bit much.

It's clear that management has no respect for whatever rights unionized workers have, and that they have the support of government and police (yes, I know, we're supposed to take what cops say at face value, especially during labour disputes, because, well, they wouldn't lie or anything, would they?).

Bark all you want. You have yet to convince me of your support for the workers.


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
blacklisted
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posted 17 October 2005 07:35 PM      Profile for blacklisted     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
one of the most troubling, and, i believe,dangerous consequences of this dispute ,are the racially-biased undertones which have long been simmering in Brooks. the push to decertify,and the "replacement "workers both utilize so-called native Albertans against the immigrant workforce. this situation has been allowed to fester and now is being played upon by management, and your reference to the non-literacy of some workers in English exposes one of the commonly used tactics in dividing a workforce, which is seeking simply safety and respect in their workplace.
this situation will be cause for racially motivated violence and discrimination long after the labour dispute is over.

From: nelson,bc | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 07:40 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:
Well, 'scuse me. You claimed no one had even mentioned O'Halloran's arrest, when in fact people had -- in some detail, no less. You posted to a link that didn't really reflect the union's concerns at all, and honed in on the wage offer without any context. And you seem fixated on those bus windows, but nary a mention of the folks who were injured by said bus. Yet, you support the union.

Yes, you can be concerned about union leadership and whether or not it reflects the interests of rank and file members. But come on. Accusing us of "circling the prey" because we take issue with your posts is a bit much.

It's clear that management has no respect for whatever rights unionized workers have, and that they have the support of government and police (yes, I know, we're supposed to take what cops say at face value, especially during labour disputes, because, well, they wouldn't lie or anything, would they?).

Bark all you want. You have yet to convince me of your support for the workers.


I'm not here to convince you of anything, mersh. I'm here to post my opinion just like everyone else.

I posted my views based on what I read. If I missed a few posts, ok, paint me with the guilty brush.

I found this thread while looking for current info on what occurred at Lakeside today and honed in on the post that brought me here.

My apologies if I missed something I should have read.

I am not one to see ghosts where there are none. Post factual information and I'll check it out.

This country would be in a lot of trouble if law enforcement acted on what you are anyone else "thinks" may have happened.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 17 October 2005 07:41 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What? You guys see someone new around here and circle the prey? Is that how it works?

No, we just ask that you keep this in mind.

quote:
labour and consumption
Discuss work and economic issues from a pro-worker point of view.

Please do.


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 07:44 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by blacklisted:
one of the most troubling, and, i believe,dangerous consequences of this dispute ,are the racially-biased undertones which have long been simmering in Brooks. the push to decertify,and the "replacement "workers both utilize so-called native Albertans against the immigrant workforce. this situation has been allowed to fester and now is being played upon by management, and your reference to the non-literacy of some workers in English exposes one of the commonly used tactics in dividing a workforce, which is seeking simply safety and respect in their workplace.
this situation will be cause for racially motivated violence and discrimination long after the labour dispute is over.

Agreed, blacklisted. Good post.

This article which is rather long (5 pages in total), deals with the racial aspect in this.

If you haven't read it yet, you may want to.

Part 10: Our town, their town, Globe & Mail


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 17 October 2005 07:50 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
This country would be in a lot of trouble if law enforcement acted on what you are anyone else "thinks" may have happened.

Actually, picket lines would be a lot safer if police did charge drivers for charging lines. Fact is, they rarely do.

I don't support violence. I do support defending the picket in the face of violence, however. Lives are at stake when busloads of scabs run through lines. Again, you seem more concerned with property damage:

quote:
O'Halloran is out picketing and smashing bus windows. That kind of behaviour is not conducive to effective bargaining.

And yet you say you're willing to listen to the facts, even though you're mistating your own.


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 07:58 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:

And yet you say you're willing to listen to the facts, even though you're mistating your own.


quote:
Originally posted by mersh:

And yet you say you're willing to listen to the facts, even though you're mistating your own.


I could care less about property damage. Once again you put words into my mouth.

What I am concerned about is that someone is going to get seriously hurt. There were people inside that bus when they took to smashing the windows. One guy was sitting behind the steering wheel.

What would have happened if the glass had shattered? Have you seen the pictures of that bus?

I'm not misrepresenting anything, mersh.

Think what you want. I could care less. I am not going to continue this with you. I don't argue for arguments sake.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 17 October 2005 08:08 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Blacklisted,

I have to run as supper calls. Before I go though, I see you are a labour organizer.

You seem to have a good grasp of what is going on in Brooks. I'd be interested to hear how you'd handle the situation.

I'll check back later.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Thrasymachus
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posted 17 October 2005 08:47 PM      Profile for Thrasymachus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What I am concerned about is that someone is going to get seriously hurt. There were people inside that bus when they took to smashing the windows. One guy was sitting behind the steering wheel.

But there weren't any people in that bus. Only scabs and scab accomplices.

But seriously, I have seen too much violence on the line due to the fact that some people are willing to try and steal other peoples livelihoods or make a living off of intimidating strikers/escorting and protecting scabs. If someone tried to steal my job I wouldn't be calm and collected about it either. I have no sympathy for scabs.

That being said, the most grievous offenders in this case are the Alberta Tories for allowing this kind of theft to be legal in the first place.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: Thrasymachus ]


From: South of Hull | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 17 October 2005 09:28 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You have to be carefull with electricity. For example, if you were to see high powered lines, servicing, say, a large industry, the accidental application of a chain across two or more of the lines will interupt service for some time.

Oh....sorry. I meant to post this in the science forum.

Not really appropriate here.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 17 October 2005 09:46 PM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus:
But there weren't any people in that bus. Only scabs and scab accomplices. But seriously, I have seen too much violence on the line due to the fact that some people are willing to try and steal other peoples livelihoods or make a living off of intimidating strikers/escorting and protecting scabs. If someone tried to steal my job I wouldn't be calm and collected about it either. I have no sympathy for scabs.
So are you advocating the use of violence and intimidation against replacement workers during a labour dispute?

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 17 October 2005 11:06 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
I would encourage babblers to read the Disputes Inquiry Board report that the union accepted and Tyson rejected. The proposed pay scales are listed on page 23.
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/hre/pdf/DIB_report.pdf

Lynn M's original post used weasel words like 'top hourly rate' rather than 'average or median hourly rates.' She also quoted 'top hourly rates' that won't even take effect until the last year of the proposed agreement in 2009.

And look at the great fringe benefits in the DIB recommendations. You get to pay your own Alberta Health Care premiums in year one. You get two whole weeks vacation until you've worked five years.

You get a measly 1%-2.5% contribution to an RRSP depending on how long you can stomach the dirty, dangerous work, but only if you're working full-time. How's that for a great union pension?

Yet UFCW reluctantly accepted these compromise recommendations, while Tyson rejected them outright as being too rich.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 18 October 2005 12:30 AM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Alright, you lot, here is how it goes.

1. Everyone must move up and make more money- and you do this byincreasing your skills and taking higher and higher level jobs.

2. One does not OWN a job, he/she is allowed to perform in one so long as the contribution outweighs the remuneration.

3. So long as Tyson can get all the help it needs at $11 per hour, they should NOT have to pay more. NOW IF THE WORKERS GET OFF THEIR BACK SIDES AND BEGIN TO MOVE INTO BETTER JOBS, THE SUPPLY OF LABOR WILL GO DOWN NATURALLY, AND TYSON WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE TO FILL OUT ITS NEEDS. (Rule 1, the best way to help your fellow workers is to get a better job).

4. To the poster who said he worked there, it was terrible but significant, DON'T YOU GET THE POINT? You developed enough desire to get another job. I had such a job in my younger days. I was glad it was there as I needed the money; I was glad it wasn't controlled by the union mafia and easy to enter and exit. The WORST thing would be if you had been paid $50 per hour as you would have NEVER IMPROVED, and would BE THERE STILL. You would have to keep paying the union its extortion to keep the job because without continuing to extort from the company, you wouldn't have the $50.

In short, you wanted more and got off your arse and went to get it.

5. Lakeside foods is a way station for people on their way up. Entry AND EXIT should be simple. It is relatively low skill and should have a revolving door.

MEAT CARVING IS NOT A CAREER. (AND IT SHOULDN'T PAY LIKE ONE).

6. There is very little difference between the extortion of the fat man in the golf cart and the nitroglyceryn bomber. (but most bombers know when to put the fork down).


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 18 October 2005 01:07 AM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ptx:
3. So long as Tyson can get all the help it needs at $11 per hour, they should NOT have to pay more. NOW IF THE WORKERS GET OFF THEIR BACK SIDES AND BEGIN TO MOVE INTO BETTER JOBS, THE SUPPLY OF LABOR WILL GO DOWN NATURALLY, AND TYSON WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE TO FILL OUT ITS NEEDS. (Rule 1, the best way to help your fellow workers is to get a better job).

Except the economy is turning out low-wage jobs as highly-paid jobs disappear. Those better jobs simply are not available in large enough numbers to make a real impact. And this is supposed to be Alberta, land where the streets are paved with gold, and there is (supposedly) a shortage of labour so bad that employers have to pay really really high wages to get people to work for them. If highly-paid work is so available as it's made out to be in Alberta, the strike shouldn't even be happening.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
blacklisted
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posted 18 October 2005 01:33 AM      Profile for blacklisted     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
obviously,reading for comprehension continues to be a problem for the ideologically disposed who come trolling. Tyson, which is not mom and pop's butcher shop down home, goes looking for immigrant labour from areas where there are significant numbers of displaced people, whom they take any and all advantage of ,to the detriment of all.
stripping out a carcass every 25 seconds or less is dangerous and demanding work, which should be compensated for accordingly.
read some of the links, your argument is foolish and exposes you as less than credible,ptx.

From: nelson,bc | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 18 October 2005 01:38 AM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by LynnM:
This article which is rather long (5 pages in total), deals with the racial aspect in this.

If you haven't read it yet, you may want to.

Part 10: Our town, their town, Globe & Mail


That's an excellent link providing in depth coverage of the social divide in Brooks. Dated June, 2003, it would be interesting to know how the propensity of the Sudanese community to organize itself is playing out.

Thanks,


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 18 October 2005 10:27 AM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This isn't online yet, but should be later this morning sometime.

From the article:

Police Lay More Charges
Medicine Hat News

RCMP have arrested and charged Andrew Crocker, 57, or Brooks, and Carey Kopp, 37, of Brooks.

The two each face five Criminal Code offences.

Crocker and Kopp are scheduled to appear in Brooks Provincial Court on Nov. 30 to face dangerous driving, criminal negligence causing bodily harm, michief causing danger to life, criminal harassment and intimidation charges stemming from a collision that sent United Food and Commercial Workers 401 president Doug O'Halloran to hospital.

________

The full article should appear at The Medicine Hat News, sometime today.

Want to write Tyson and let them know what you think of their plants?

This link contains some Tyson e-mail addresses.

Indie Journal - Boycott Tyson Foods!


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
pink
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posted 18 October 2005 12:43 PM      Profile for pink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Right wing columnists weigh in in favour of strikers

Neil Waugh, business columnist for the Edmonton Sun, is usually pretty conservative but has been backing the UFCW.

quote:
With Arkansas-based Tyson Foods digging in and basically using Alberta labour rules to break the union, the cow patch could be back in trouble soon. Alberta New Democratic Party labour critic Ray Martin wants Klein to recall the legislature and fix the labour laws so Tyson can be subjected to binding arbitration.

And even more surprising was today's column in the Calgary Herald by Lorne Gunter - someone I have neveragreed with on anything. Gunter wrote a somber, but sympathic column bascially saying that Alberta Labour Law will crush the union, no matter how just their cause is. The column is not availble on line without a subscription.

quote:
Already, at least 1,000 of Lakeside's 2,400 workers have shown themselves willing to cross the line. And it is significant that this spring's certification vote passed by the slimmest of majorities -- barely more than 50 per cent voted to join the union. Over the next few weeks, that 50/50 split will slowly tilt in the company's favour as the union finds its members changing sides for a paycheque or quietly slipping away to unskilled jobs in Alberta's red-hot oil patch.

Lakeside management has behaved outrageously so far, allegedly engaging in more violence than the union is suspected of -- having pickets beaten and running the union local president off the road so they could serve him notice of the labour board order.

But nice guys or not, barring political interference, they will now finish first.



From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 18 October 2005 12:59 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post
John K: what is the ratio of full time to part time workers a Lakeside? Does Tyson use part timers to avoid paying benefits?
From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 18 October 2005 01:10 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post
ptx: hard truths but completely devoid of understanding.

Those who will develop and improve their skills will do so in spite of evil employers such as Tyson,not because of them.

All honest toil is worthy of respect. Some folks prefer the security of a regular job to perhaps improve other facets of their life:family,arts,athletics.Not everyone is a climber.


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 18 October 2005 01:21 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post
ptx: I forgot something:

" Meat carving" Hmmm...This statement showcases your contempt for the workers at Lakeside.
It is true that assembly line separation of the knee bone from the thigh bone is not the same as disecting a carcass into crown roasts.

Honest work deserves respect and your nasty post deserves none.


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 18 October 2005 02:21 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm normally not much one for unions but that plant and that job is the right place and the right time.

If Tyson can't get by (HAH!) on that suck-ass of a deal then time to sell out, pack up, and GO HOME!

Two weeks vacation, no AHC Premium coverage in year one (well, it's only a year I guess), and 2.5% pension contributions??!! What a joke (and what do you bet that the pension is completely controlled by the company rather than a neutral third party?). Most companies offer three weeks the instant you walk in the door for a full time job.

But......

There are over 1000 people willing to work for what they are getting now....at what point does the right to work for what you feel is the right price get trumped?


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 18 October 2005 08:46 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by LynnM:

Seems as though he's been carrying a dangerous weapon and took part in the smashing of bus windows.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: LynnM ]


Just to be clear. I was on the picket line with Doug, and the "dangerous weapon" is a picket sign. Yes, the sign said UFCW 401 on it, but I think it is really a stretch to call it a "dangerous weapon". Also, the only "smashing" of a bus occurred after the bus had not stopped , but in fact, ran into at least three picketers.


From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 18 October 2005 09:21 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
Don't know the ratio of FT to PT. As Heywood pointed out, it's a crappy "pension" even for the full-timers.

I usually don't feed the trolls but ptx's posting is beneath contempt. Spend some time talking with the mainly immigrant workforce on the picket line, then tell me they are not worthy of respect, dignity and a fair wage for doing the dirty, dangerous and demanding work that puts the T-Bone steak on your dinner plate.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 18 October 2005 09:45 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nam:

Just to be clear. I was on the picket line with Doug, and the "dangerous weapon" is a picket sign. Yes, the sign said UFCW 401 on it, but I think it is really a stretch to call it a "dangerous weapon". Also, the only "smashing" of a bus occurred after the bus had not stopped , but in fact, ran into at least three picketers.


Thanks for clearing that up, Nam. In the media, the wording used insinuated that he was carrying a weapon for the purpose of committed dangerous acts.

Even on the RCMP website, they don't elaborate.

After reading what I have this past week, I figured he may have had a baseball bat or something. It would take a mighty blow to smash a vehicle window I would think.

The RCMP say:

"Brooks RCMP launched a criminal investigation into the allegations of busses having their windows smashed attempting entry to Lakeside Packers at Brooks, Alberta . Investigators now have reasonable and probable grounds to believe breaches of the criminal code occurred. Douglas O'HALLORAN, age 53 of Balzac, Alberta has been charged with two counts of wilful damage under $ 5000 and one count of possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose. He has been served a summons with a scheduled first court appearance in Brooks Provincial Court, December 21, 2005 at 10:00 am."

Lakeside packers... Charges laid

I've actually been tempted to drive out there myself to see with my own eyes what is going on. I'd also like to speak to some of the strikers but I doubt they'd let me through without a media pass.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 19 October 2005 12:38 AM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyone can, and should, visit the picket line. Usual protocol is to find a picket captain when you first arrive, introduce yourself and see if any special rules apply. Strikers appreciate the opportunity to tell their side of the story. No media pass is neccessary as the line is on public property bordering the private property of Tyson - even in Alberta one is still allowed to be on public property.
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 19 October 2005 01:22 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CLC Solidarity Statement

En francais

Full English Text:

Solidarity with Workers at Lakeside Packers
Wednesday October 19, 2005 09:45 AM

OTTAWA – The Canadian Labour Congress calls on premier Ralph Klein and the government of Alberta to intervene to uphold and protect the dignity of the workers of Lakeside Packers in Brooks, Alberta and their right to a safe and healthy workplace.

“It is hard to believe, yet it is true, that in 2005, in Canada’s apparently richest province, workers are forced to go on strike to obtain bathroom breaks or guarantee the implementation of basic health and safety procedures,” says Ken Georgetti, president of the Canadian Labour Congress.

Georgetti also calls on the premier and government of Alberta to introduce legislation that will provide for first-contract arbitration in cases where the employer insists on frustrating its workers democratic and legal right to form a union and prevent bargaining to proceed to the conclusion of a first collective agreement. For the same reasons, Georgetti urges Alberta to adopt anti-scab legislation.

“The absence of anti-scab legislation makes it too easy for certain types of employers to try to evade their duty to bargain in good faith, regardless of the consequences for workers and community,” explains Georgetti. “Such legislation has been in force for over a decade in British Columbia and almost thirty years in Quebec. In these two provinces, picket lines don’t give rise to the divisions, the bitterness nor the violence we’ve seen in Brooks.”

“Moreover, because a large proportion of the workforce at Lakeside Packers is immigrants and new Canadians, the government of Alberta has an added duty to ensure that their constitutional equality right and their right to the protection of laws of Alberta are fully respected. Any allegation to the contrary that remains unanswered by the government of Alberta becomes a blight on all of Canada,” adds Georgetti.

“I call on every working women and men in Brooks, Alberta, to remain strong and to hold their solidarity. Every day, all over the world, workers strive to make a living and struggle for their rights and improvements to their quality of life. Steadfast solidarity, on the picket line, in the community and beyond, delivers successes in these struggles,” concludes Georgetti.

The Canadian Labour Congress, the national voice of the labour movement, represents 3 million Canadian workers. The CLC brings together Canada's national and international unions along with the provincial and territorial federations of labour and 137 district labour councils. Web site: www.canadianlabour.ca

Contact:

Jeff Atkinson, 613-526-7425 and 613-863-1413

[email protected]

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 19 October 2005 01:34 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by LynnM:

.

After reading what I have this past week, I figured he may have had a baseball bat or something. It would take a mighty blow to smash a vehicle window I would think.


I'd also like to speak to some of the strikers but I doubt they'd let me through without a media pass.


Hmmmm...reinforcing the spin are we Lynn? Clumsy at the least. Insinuating that a picket sign was too small to do damage to a bus AND insinuating that strikers would limit free movement-by extension that they may have "dangerous weapons".

It would appear that the Tyson PR department is also in serious need of wage increases in order to attract competent spinweasels.


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 19 October 2005 01:51 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And just a quick note for Lynn (meant to be informative, not combatitive (honestly) because it sounds like you haven't been on a picket line before) -- you wouldn't be going through the line, but stopping at it. The advice about talking with the picket captain (but also other workers) and respecting the line's protocol is also right on the money. Bring food, too.
From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 19 October 2005 03:36 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlandist:

Hmmmm...reinforcing the spin are we Lynn? Clumsy at the least. Insinuating that a picket sign was too small to do damage to a bus AND insinuating that strikers would limit free movement-by extension that they may have "dangerous weapons".

It would appear that the Tyson PR department is also in serious need of wage increases in order to attract competent spinweasels.


That would be incorrect.

Yesterday on the radio, someone from the Brooks detachment of the RCMP said that they may limit the comings and goings of folks who don't belong on the Lakeside property.

He said that he advises anyone in the media to provide proper credentials or they may not be allowed through.

In nothing that I said did I infer that strikers wouldn't let me through.

Talk about spin - you misconstrued my entire post.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 19 October 2005 03:39 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:
And just a quick note for Lynn (meant to be informative, not combatitive (honestly) because it sounds like you haven't been on a picket line before) -- you wouldn't be going through the line, but stopping at it. The advice about talking with the picket captain (but also other workers) and respecting the line's protocol is also right on the money. Bring food, too.

Thanks, mersh.

You're right, I have never been on a picket line before so appreciate the advice.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 06:16 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Oh ivory tower types, come down to the base line...


In absense of a facility, where would the workers be? On the dole? possibly. Other jobs? maybe.

Statements about the "general availablity" of other higher paying jobs in Alberta make some statement about the ease with which competition can be had, but doesn't detract from the necessity to compete.

Simply giving an opinion that a "job" is "worthy of respect" doesn't say much. A falling leaf is worthy of respect. In a non-communist country the level pecuniary respect is based upon supply and demand. None of the workers would work for $1 per hour; it is likely that 100% would work for $20 per hour.

When you are between the two extremes, you want supply to equal demand. When this happens, people who would work for $10 per hour get a $1.35 surplus when the rate is $11.35.

The size of Tyson doesn't matter. Someone must put pencil to paper to decide on expanding production, improving facilities, or perhaps letting the facilities slip farther into non-repair. The plant has to compete with other plants, and competition doesn't mean you have to be exactly like others. Maybe this plant will have lesser wages and better facilitis. Other plants may have better wages and poorer facilities.

Why is "Mr. Obese on the golf cart" empowered to equalize everything? Union dues of $6 per week per employee works out to $780,000 per year for 2500 employees. This is nothing more than extortion. Legalities aside if O'halloran had planted a bomb and asked for $780,000 per year not to set it off it would be as bad.

No wait, not as bad, because if the extortionist forces $1 more per hour, an ADDITIONAL $5 MILLION (and more due to payrol tax and benefits) in wage costs.

If the conditions and wages are bad, the employees SHOULD WORK ELSEWHERE. Reality is the key.

If Lakeside can only get 1000 employees on what it pays LAKESIDE has to make a decision based upon the size of its operation, its fringes (gravel parking lot or paved parking lot), whether it will expand, or reduce (or diversify )its operations, whether it can charge more for its services or less for the same services or so on.

Now, as to my critics; look at your own limitations. Ever tried to build a plant? Ever had to make a first design based on a first ROI, to have it shot down, and then go to a second design to get more ROI, and during the two weeks to complete the second design, have the ROI target move right out from under the current design, and then get set for a third design?

What about transfer pricing?

What about the ripple effect from charging more to process the cattle?

What about the reduced share value and dividends? What about grandma not having enough wood for her fire because her dividends are down (soppy example for the bleeding hearts).

Would it change your mind if we knew that Lakeside took 100% of its waste and converted it to other useful products while the competing plants were dumping waste because they couldn't afford to do further processing?

You liberal folk have opinions but you havent had enough experience in the reality of running a business to know that it all has to make sense.

And don't forget that there may be some tax repatriation issues as funds flow from Lakeside to Little rock. Always more issues to cover, eh?


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 19 October 2005 06:38 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And how was any of that from a pro-worker perspective?
From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 19 October 2005 06:44 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ptx:
yawn, yawn, yawn

Oh good. Someone else who's taken Economics 100 and is suddenly an expert on how "the real world" works.

C'mon, Junior. You can do better'n that, surely.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 07:12 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Well, pulling it back to the personal,

what if you built a plant, took the risks of going into business and knew what you wanted. Maybe you want a cash cow (oh the puns) or maybe you want to expand. Maybe you want to take over 50 percent of the local market.

So who the hell is O'halloran to come along and provoke your employees? Can't make a real silk purse from a hefer's ear.


Good point on the yawn. Why do accountants make more money than mail room clerks? because the occupation is SKILLED and TEDIOUSLY BORING. Taking cows apart is un-skilled and semi-boring. Thats why is pays not well.

Its hard enough to plan, follow the local ordinances, keep your effluents clean, pay salaries, put up with an unmotivated class of workers and their problems (particularly at the low end of the spectrum).

But of course, what you don't understand, or have never gone through, you can yawn at.

I also disagree with someone above who wrote that people improve themselves from being shined on by some divine light. People move when they are uncomfortable. Some are energetic enough to "move on" to the next job, and some want to sit and demand high pay for doing a low paying (by supply & demand) job.

So why is it that there is no bleeding heart among you who will build a competing plant across the street from Lakeside, offer the employees $20 per hour and run it like one big happy bleeding heart liberal family? Hmmm. no takers?

My wish for Lakeside is that management should not give in; that the workers who want to work for the wage should work for it; and that those who belive their "dignity" won't let them work for less than $14/hour will get off their backsides and find a better position.

O'Halloran wants the $780,000 without having to actually earn it. Make no mistake about it.


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 19 October 2005 07:19 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Thats why is pays not well.

W?


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Forum Goon
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posted 19 October 2005 07:32 PM      Profile for Forum Goon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
So why is it that there is no bleeding heart among you who will build a competing plant across the street from Lakeside, offer the employees $20 per hour and run it like one big happy bleeding heart liberal family? Hmmm. no takers?

Because the bleeding hearts are good at spending other peoples money, but not quite so good at spending their own.
It's partly because they are jealous of anyone who has the courage and brains to take a risk in a business venture. They know deep down they don't have judgement and drive and willingness to work that is neccessary to start a successful buisiness. So they hate anyone who does succeed because that is a reminder of their weaknesses.

From: Animal Farm | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 19 October 2005 07:42 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Forum Goon:
[QB]snip vacuous ranting
[QB]

Started up any steel mills single-handedly, there, Sparky?

No?

Gosh, what a surprise. Surely someone of your obvious talents is destined for success!


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 19 October 2005 07:47 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ptx:
...

Seriously, I'm sure you're very happy in your ivory tower at Cape Town U. But the only thing worse than being wrong is being boring, Junior. Hence the previous yawn.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Forum Goon
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posted 19 October 2005 07:48 PM      Profile for Forum Goon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, but I have been in on a few business start ups. I've put my capital at risk and have seen how much work it is to get a business off the ground.
If the unions think that it's so easy, fill your boots, get into business. In other words, put your money where your mouth is.

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: Forum Goon ]


From: Animal Farm | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 19 October 2005 07:51 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In on a few business start-ups? Wow, you must be a real expert then! And I'll just bet all of those business start-ups taught you all sorts of things about unions, Sparky!
From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 07:54 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Probably not. The best experts on unions are FBI agents who specialize in investigating organized crime. Possibly also U.S. Justice department U.S. attorney RICO (racketeering influenced crime organizations) specialists.
From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 19 October 2005 07:58 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look, ptx & goonie, this is a pro-labour forum. Get lost.
From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Forum Goon
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posted 19 October 2005 07:59 PM      Profile for Forum Goon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Erstwhile:
In on a few business start-ups? Wow, you must be a real expert then! And I'll just bet all of those business start-ups taught you all sorts of things about unions, Sparky!

So why don't you guys start up a packing plant? Pay everyone a hundred dollars an hour. It'll be great. Think of all the money you'll make. Take your balls out of your mom's purse and take a chance. So what if you lose all your investment.

From: Animal Farm | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 08:01 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Although my personal favorites are IRS revenue agents who look for violations of ERISA and the Internaal Revenue Code, starting at about section 400-500 (not including penalty provisions) for PENSION ABUSE!!!
EXAMPLE: Unions who don't respect their "client's" retirement funds and either outright steal them or lend them to "insiders" (not to be repaid) or at the least lent the money to questionable insider investment schemes.

It seems that the "easy come - easy go" union treatment of employee pensions continues to be a problem.....


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Forum Goon
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posted 19 October 2005 08:03 PM      Profile for Forum Goon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:
Look, ptx & goonie, this is a pro-labour forum. Get lost.

What are you saying? That your views are so illogical they can't stand up to a little criticism?
Why have a discussion board if only one viewpoint is tolerated?
Are you having doubts about your position?


From: Animal Farm | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 19 October 2005 08:11 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Discuss work and economic issues from a pro-worker point of view.

You want to trash unions, do it elsewhere.


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 October 2005 08:11 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Goon, this isn't the American Enterprise Institute, this is babble. And in this particular forum you're supposed to...

quote:
Discuss work and economic issues from a pro-worker point of view.
That's quoted from the main page of babble.

That's the rule of the forum. If you want to preach the virtue of the unfettered free-market, you should go elsewhere.

Because you only seem to troll, I'm e-mailing the moderator. I don't know why you've lasted this long.

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 08:18 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
In the former Soviet Union, a period existed known as "socialist realism" (about 1930-1940)in which films produced illustrated happy, singing, carefree workers in a happy, happy, happy society. No problems could be identified, and certainly no criticisms of the government in power. SEE: "JOLLY FELLOWS"

So many films of the era were couched automatically in terms of the big evil plant, with the big fat industrialists having workers whipped etc. Soviet directors found no need to any introductory details (what type of plant, what was being produced, who were the customers, what was the market like). They show a plant, they show workers, they show fat industrialists -- now get on with the plot. see: "STRIKE!"

If the socialist movement ever had a chance to flourish, it was in the Soviet Union. They killed it because they discovered that it was burdensome, too costly and would never work. They had a long time to play with it.

Socialist realist tendencies are things that all liberals carry with them. They want so desperately to blindly believe in "the cause" of the "pitiful proletariat" that they eschew all else.

Without the poor pitiful story of the proletariat being trampled by the fat cat industrialists to "make a tear in our eyes" the liberals couldn't keep people's attention AWAY from the falacies of socialism.

So, is someone saying that this is a "social realist reading room only"? "not a place for realists"?

Having said all this, I don't have a lot of love for Tyson, as they put the bucks behind Clinton's candidacy early on and may have been one of the lynchpin factors in getting him elected. But irony on irony, the liberal Democrat company, from the liberal Democrat state, responsible for the election of the liberal Democrat Clinton, now doesn't want to pay Honest Liberal Canadians their "theoretical $20 per hour" due.

Who could have ever imagined this super-irony?


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 October 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Are you saying that people who want to discuss issues from a pro-worker point of view are Communists?

Sheesh...find somewhere else to proselytise and stop treating people here as if they're idiots.

Goon and Ptx...If you want to discuss the free-market or the perils of socialism/communism, you can in fact start your own topics on those things, but a pro-worker forum is not the place to do it.

That's the rule.

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 19 October 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyhoo, in the G&Myesterday, I saw a mention that the Tyson workers have been trying to negotiate a first contract for oh, maybe about 20 years:

quote:
The union, which has been fighting for its first contract since the 1980s, is pushing for higher wages and better benefits.

Since the 1980s! Disgusting.


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 19 October 2005 08:26 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Golly, it's awfully kind of Junior and Sparky to enlighten the forum! Thanks, guys! I have certainly never heard your points of view before - you are both truly great minds, I can tell.

Of course it's only my close-mindedness and fear of the unknown that truly allow me to recognize the genius behind your words, and not the fact that you're repeating hackneyed neo-con mantras that have been around for lo these many years. My loss, I suppose! Keep fighting the good fight, guys!

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: Erstwhile ]


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
blacklisted
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posted 19 October 2005 08:48 PM      Profile for blacklisted     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
well ,they want to throw RICO around,so let's have a look.
http://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=645_0_4_0
http://www.vdare.com/misc/tyson_complaint.htm
http://tinyurl.com/aybpz
our foolish little trolls should give Tyson a call,they're experts on racketeering. defend away, you're wrong,you will continue to be wrong anfd you are defending corporate criminals.

From: nelson,bc | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 08:56 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Well ersty, I know you have at least learned something.


Last Point. I am pro-worker. As workers leave for better jobs on a REAL basis, Lakeside will have a choice. Justify expansion at wages sufficiently high to attract enough workers to operate the place, or maybe put Tyson's investment money into a line of vegan meals (ok with me- veggies are healthier).

This is normal and companies make these choices daily.

What's not good is to have a "surprise" upset you calculations (like an extortioninst on a golf cart, or even a hurricane for that matter)

If Lakeside capitulates and pays the workers $15 per hour, THE WORKERS WILL HAVE LOST.

Dozens will remain at Lakeside forever because they were not economically uncomfortable enough to leave & better themselves.

Dozens who would have gone on to be shopkeepers, dentists, teachers, politicians, and more, won't do it because they had some delusion that they had an ownership interest in a "job".

At a time when I was unenlightened, I had a job paying $3.50 per hour. If I had been paid $5.00 per hour, I would probably have never left.

I give thanks everyday that that job and others like it were uncomfortable enough to keep me moving.

But I am also grateful that those jobs were quick, available, not controlled by some "straw boss" on a golf cart, and were plentiful BECAUSE they were low paying.

No pally boy, I am PRO WORKER because I was one of them.


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 19 October 2005 08:59 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe I missed something (and I usually do), but isn't RICO an American thing? What does that have to do with CANADIAN workers in a (allegedly) Canadian factory have to do with it? The Alberta Labour laws are (at the very least) 20 years behind the times. And Tyson? They are the worst form of corporate piracy. I am enraged so I will not go on, otherwise this will turn into an incomprehesible rant.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
ptx
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posted 19 October 2005 08:59 PM      Profile for ptx   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Good points Blacklisted. Like I said, I am no friend of Tyson. They should be prosecuted for violating immigration laws. Government should deal with them.

But no one should have to put up with a little dictator extortionist on a golf cart; not even a felon....


From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 19 October 2005 09:21 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It isn't only "Tyson" money, ptx; it's also taxpayer money.

The AB gov gave them 30 mil just last year to help them through the border closure. All that while they made Canadian cows sit while they processed R-Calf cows -- the same organization that kept the border closed to Canadian beef.

The crux of the problem is that they are taking advantage of a huge immigrant populace who right now, don't have many choices but to work in that cesspool.

The main issues aren't about money. They are safety related.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
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posted 19 October 2005 09:43 PM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Yeah! And that 30 Million should have gone to the cattle producers, not the huge multinational employee exploiters!

How can these workers get a fair deal when Alberta allows police to stop picketers from allowing scabs in to virtually nullify their strike? Bunch of hogwash!

Feel like going down there and bringing every labour 'oriented' person in this country into Brooks to force them to give these employees a chance at negotiation!

All they get now is their union leader run down by Tyson management, and the loss of their jobs to SCABS! Albertans should be outraged by this! Anyone who agrees with this is an outright inhuman pig!

Have worked in these low paying jobs as a youth, but never in the kind of abuses these poor people are putting up with. Instead of saying just move on, and let some other poor suckers suffer the same indignities,

'every person in this country should be standing together to demand it be fixed'.


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
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posted 19 October 2005 10:02 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
At a time when I was unenlightened, I had a job paying $3.50 per hour. If I had been paid $5.00 per hour, I would probably have never left.

That's a good point ptx, but I don't think it's valid in this situation. If I had been able to snag a high paying job working in a university bookstore after graduating, then I would probably still be there. And I'm really glad I didn't, and worked crummy jobs that motivated me to move on. But I've worked in a slaughterhouse as well, and I know something of the plant in Brooks (didn't work there though). It's a nice thought, but I seriously doubt many of my coworkers at the slaughterhouse had careers as lawyers or dentists in their future. Some did, and they worked there to pay the bills for school etc, then moved on. A extra three bucks an hour wouldn't have kept any of us there. An extra ten bucks an hour wouldn't have kept me there.

For a lot of people where I worked, that was about the best they were going to do, and they were with the company a long time. You can't tell me that they don't deserve a decent wage and a half decent pension at the end of 20 years on the killing floor. The Tyson workers are getting screwed.

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: worker_drone ]


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 19 October 2005 10:04 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's very simple.

The most valuable resource a person has is his/her time. If this person works at a job, (s)he is sacrificing his/her time in order for someone else to make a profit. Anyone who gives of his/her time to help someone else make a profit has the right to negotiate how (s)he will be compensated.

The alternative is to believe that the worker's purpose is to serve as mere tools to help the company make a profit, which would imply a belief that the workers are less valuable than the company bosses.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Forum Goon
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posted 19 October 2005 10:10 PM      Profile for Forum Goon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ahh, so this is simply a union cheerleading forum. Where are all the babes with the big boobs and the short skirts?
Rah Rah Rah
Go Unions Go
Bah Blah Blah
Where'd My Job Go?

Why would you set up a forum with rules that no one must say anything negative about unions? What is the purpose in that?
Can't the kiddies handle both sides of the story?
We mustn't tell the children about the crazy old uncle we keep up in the attic?


From: Animal Farm | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 19 October 2005 10:21 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Forum Goon:
Ahh, so this is simply a union cheerleading forum. Where are all the babes with the big boobs and the short skirts?
Rah Rah Rah
Go Unions Go
Bah Blah Blah
Where'd My Job Go?

Why would you set up a forum with rules that no one must say anything negative about unions? What is the purpose in that?
Can't the kiddies handle both sides of the story?
We mustn't tell the children about the crazy old uncle we keep up in the attic?


Sure thing, goon. I see you're not only anti-human rights, you're also sexist.

I'm not a union person, but in the case of Lakeside, I don't see as they had a choice.

It wasn't until a worker was scalded with boiling water and fired after he complained, that workers voted for a union. Prior to that, any voting held for the purpose of joining the union, fell short.

When do human rights trump money?

After someone lies dead on the killing room floor?

Have you bothered to read through the articles pertaining to Lakeside or are you just here to troll?

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: LynnM ]


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9687

posted 19 October 2005 11:01 PM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Goon quote: Ahh, so this is simply a union cheerleading forum. Where are all the babes with the big boobs and the short skirts?
Rah Rah Rah
Go Unions Go
Bah Blah Blah
Where'd My Job Go?

This is shooting so low, there's no belt! What kind of smutt is this? Double putrid indignities to women and workers!


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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Babbler # 3472

posted 19 October 2005 11:22 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ptx:
Why is "Mr. Obese on the golf cart" empowered to equalize everything?

You really are low. You even have the gall to say you are "pro worker". I'm sending this to Audra and she can deal with you.


From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 19 October 2005 11:49 PM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:
Anyhoo, in the G&Myesterday, I saw a mention that the Tyson workers have been trying to negotiate a first contract for oh, maybe about 20 years:

Since the 1980s! Disgusting.


20 years ago, there was a union at Lakeside but it was killed after a lengthy strike.

This article refers to that. Look to the bottom of the page for the applicable reference.

Injunction sought after clashes in Alberta slaughterhouse strike

It wasn't until April, 2004 that the union managed to make it's way back into the plant.

This article gives a history of Lakeside workers and the union.

Canadian workers' victory


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 20 October 2005 12:09 AM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks.
From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
LynnM
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posted 20 October 2005 12:23 AM      Profile for LynnM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You're welcome, and I got the date wrong, mersh.

Looks like it was August, not April, that workers voted to join the union.


From: Alberta | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged

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