Since some people seem to need a place to discuss this, here you go... (Fidel & Boom Boom!)

First off...

Charles and Camilla to 'repent their sins'

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Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles are to address criticism of their relationship tomorrow by paying penitence for previous "sins and wickedness."

When their marriage is blessed by the Archbishop of Canterbury at a hastily rescheduled wedding, the couple will go some way towards acknowledging concerns over the adultery which so angered Diana, Princess of Wales.

During the service at the private St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle, Prince Charles will be asked directly by the Archbishop, Dr Rowan Williams, whether he has "resolved to be faithful to your wife, forsaking all others, so long as you both shall live?" The Prince will reply: "That is my resolve, with the help of God."

Eschewing more recent updates, the couple will join the congregation in reciting the act of penitence from the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.

The confessional prayer, written by King Henry VIII's Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer, is considered to be the strongest act of penitence in the Church of England.

The Prince and the new Duchess of Cornwall will join in, saying: "We acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, Which we, from time to time, most grievously have committed, by thought, word and deed, Against thy Divine Majesty, Provoking most justly thy wrath and indignation against us. We do earnestly repent, And are heartily sorry for these our misdoings."

A spokesman for the Church of England played down the significance, saying it was said before communion services every Sunday. "Don't forget it will be said by everyone in the congregation and that includes the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition," he said.

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Anyone?

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Originally posted by lagatta:
I'm not sticking it to you or anyone else, Boom Boom, just standing up for my cohort!

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Originally posted by lagatta:
It is very uncool when our republican sentiments are a smokescreen for ageism and sexism.

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It's also a matter of roles in the drama, I think. If Camilla had been the spouse, and Diana the mistress, I think there'd have been significantly less discussion of their relative attractiveness.

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Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
So who is getting up early to watch the wedding? Anyone? Anyone?

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It's also a matter of roles in the drama, I think. If Camilla had been the spouse, and Diana the mistress, I think there'd have been significantly less discussion of their relative attractiveness.

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I certainly don't support mocking persons appearance but you are right. Persons tend to be less than charitable to the person who is a mistress. Persons also imagine adultery as about sexual attraction so they expect that a mistress would have very observable signs of traditional beauty. In this situation Diana better represented traditional beauty. It was a puzzle piece for onlookers who see adultery in terms of lust what the decision making points were for behind Charles' choice of her over Diana. It's a regrettable way of examining people's worth and value but she was an adulteress so I can't see myself getting too ruffled about it.

But Hailey, hey, they are making it legal now. I don't see the point in flagellating anyone for past "sins"...

Anyhow, I agree with lagatta and skdadl, of course. Besides which, considering that Charles and Camilla were likely having sex long before his wedding to Diana, one could even say that in fact Charles was cheating on Camilla by marrying Diana! That is, if we're going to get all ruffled about adultery and labelling people.

I b'lieve the modern vernacular term is "geezer babes"...

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Instead of the more recent and moderate prayers of penitence written for divorcees, the Prince and the new Duchess of Cornwall will then join the congregation in reading what is regarded as the most severe act of penitence from the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.

The confession reads: "We acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, Which we, from time to time, most grievously have committed, by thought, word and deed."

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I'm glad they're getting married, finally, although all those years of pointless cruelty to Charles, Camilla and Diana should fall squarely at the feet of Elizabeth. She's the one who could have prevented it.

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He was an adulterer too, and if the stories are to be believed, was devious to Diana about his longterm relationship with Camilla.

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Yes, he was an adulterer. And, yes, the stories do show that. Evidently on his wedding day he wore cufflinks that were a gift from Camila and invited Ms. Camila to his nuptials. How lovely!

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But Hailey, hey, they are making it legal now. I don't see the point in flagellating anyone for past "sins"...

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It's a living reality.

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And why on earth are we speaking of "adultery" in the C21 anyway? To me, that word is in itself a sin against intelligence and humanity: it is a moral judgement passed on someone else's private life, which is a silly thing for any of us to be doing.

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According to the dictionary it means "Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse". It applies. The judgement comes from how you feel about it.

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Besides which, considering that Charles and Camilla were likely having sex long before his wedding to Diana, one could even say that in fact Charles was cheating on Camilla by marrying Diana!

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They were certainly intimate for a very long period of time. They were intimate throughout her marriage. Diana was not cheating because she may have earnestly believed that that relationship was over. She made that judgement amongst much innocence. She was, what, 19?

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I actually get quite a kick out of the fact that Charles has turned the midlife crisis thing on its ear. Seeking solace from an older, less attractive woman while he's married to a much younger, beautiful wife...it's a nice twist on the cliche, you know?

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There is an amusing twist to it, true. It's far overshadowed by the negatives.

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From what I understand, Charles has been smitten with Camilla (and she him) since they were young, but wasn't permitted to marry her -- she wasn't "suitable" for some reason.

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I understood it was because she wasn't a virgin and they wanted a woman without a past.

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You can't treat people like breeding stock and expect them to behave themselves, for heaven's sake.

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Charles had the option of abdicating as another family member had done. He chose instead to live a life based on deceit. Everyone has choices.

What would their kids look like .... Think of the look on that famous Hollywood animal actor, Ed the talking horse. Now picture Ed with taxi cab doors for ears after he's licked a thicket of English stinging nettles. (naying)

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According to the dictionary it means "Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse". It applies. The judgement comes from how you feel about it.

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There is no such thing as an illegitimate child; only illegitimate parents.
— George Bernard Shaw

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And btw, I find it hypocritical in the extreme that so many who are sniffy about poor ol' Camiller and her "tawdry" carrying on with Horseface are usually such ardent monarchists and/or happy devotees of "Cookie" (the Queen mum). Truth be told, Horseface only got married to Diana Spencer at the insistance of his family, most notably his domineering asshole of a father and the most meddlesome busybody going, "Cookie". Indeed, while he was prepared to dig in his heels with everyone else, the world's most overgrown dependant was apparently unable to resist the entreaties (read machinations and demands) of his doting grandmother.

So, the second-most-adored member of the "royal" family set in motion the wheels that eventually led to the death of the first-most-adored member of that parasitic clan. Talk about "hubris", not to mention "poetic justice", no? Too bad a young girl's life got so screwed up by the whole thing.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
What? I thought coverage didn't start on TV till 9. Off to have a look.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Heartless!

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Hee hee! Poor skdadl, alone in her romantic appreciation for the nuptials of the world's most overgrown dependent.

Edited to add the theme song, "La Carmagnole" ("Ça ira")

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: lagatta ]

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Hailey, there are a great many words in the dictionary, including racist terms, eg, that no decent person would use to wound others. My judgement is not passed on Camilla's private life, about which I have little trustworthy knowledge and no right to agitate, but on a word that is intrinsically wicked, in my view, as wicked as a racist term, and on anyone who would consider herself to have licence to wield it against others.

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Thanks for answering. You are correct that all of the details are things that is difficult to be 100% confident about. I believe it is confirmed, however, that they had a sexual relationship throughout his marriage to Diana. Beyond all of the reports it was acknowledged by both the Prince and Princess in separate television interviews. According to the Princess it was not an agreed upon relationship as part of an open marriage but a choice made between the two parties without consultation with herself. That meets the definition of adultery even if we don't know the context or the details.
Persons comfort level with adultery probably fluctuates with whether or not they feel that there is any context that makes adultery acceptable. I have a very limited context where I believe that adultery could be argued as moral.

If you think that a person would have to be wicked or not decent to use it that's absolutely fair for you to hold that view.

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And btw, I find it hypocritical in the extreme that so many who are sniffy about poor ol' Camiller and her "tawdry" carrying on with Horseface are usually such ardent monarchists and/or happy devotees of "Cookie" (the Queen mum

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Honestly what is more hypocritical is that many of the persons comparing Camilla with Diana and drawing negative conclusions would not fair well if they were compared to Diana either.

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Truth be told, Horseface only got married to Diana Spencer at the insistance of his family, most notably his domineering asshole of a father and the most meddlesome busybody going, "Cookie". Indeed, while he was prepared to dig in his heels with everyone else, the world's most overgrown dependant was apparently unable to resist the entreaties (read machinations and demands) of his doting grandmother.

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I didn't understand that he had any specific opposition to Diana but just resisted the whole idea that it was "time" to marry and found it difficult that so many girls were screened out because of their past.

Regardless, a man with noteworthy courage abdicated the throne so that he could marry the woman he loved. That is admirable. Lying to a 19 year old girl? No, sorry I won't express admiration for that.

You can be a grown man, a future leader of a Nation, and the future Head of the Church and you can't open your mouth to convey that you will not marry under duress? How terribly sad.

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Better make it two, then, Michelle. I can't be negative about this after seeing the short stick-end that Princess Margaret and Peter Townsend got handed fifty years ago.

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And all those cute li'l boy sopranos -- awwwww.

The Philharmonia Orchestra was parked at the roodscreen and did some lovely amplifications of the organ during the hymns.

But my God! The things women wear to weddings! Why do women do that to themselves? Pastel confections, most of them looking so uncomfortable -- horrifying. That was almost the first thing we saw, as the guests walked from lunch to the chapel, and it put me off rather.

Camilla looked good, though. She had worn a cream dress and coat to the registry office, which I liked better than the long, trailing gown she wore to the chapel, but then I suppose the long gown looks better during the ceremony -- for the kneeling, y'know.

There were a lot of Philip Treacy (sp?) crooked-mushroom hats. Camilla had one in the morning; to the chapel she wore a feathery headdress thingy.

And I saw Mr Bean among the guests.

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]

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Regardless, a man with noteworthy courage abdicated the throne so that he could marry the woman he loved. That is admirable. Lying to a 19 year old girl? No, sorry I won't express admiration for that.

You can be a grown man, a future leader of a Nation, and the future Head of the Church and you can't open your mouth to convey that you will not marry under duress? How terribly sad.

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Hailey, you have just described a Nazi-sympathizer who abdicated in order to marry a Nazi spy as "admirable."

And yet for a man who obviously struggled with his conscience for years and has at long last found adult love, you feel pity and condescension.

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Hailey, you have just described a Nazi-sympathizer who abdicated in order to marry a Nazi spy as "admirable." And yet for a man who obviously struggled with his conscience for years and has at long last found adult love, you feel pity and condescension.Nice scale of values there

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I wasn't familiar with those pieces of history. You are right. Nothing about that is admirable. Thank you for drawing that to my attention. I stand corrected.

I don't know if Charles struggled with his conscience.

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Spring Wedding

I took your news outdoors, and strolled a while
In silence on my square of garden-ground
Where I could dim the roar of arguments,
Ignore the scandal-flywheel whirring round,
And hear instead the green fuse in the flower
Ignite, the breeze stretch out a shadow-hand
To ruffle blossom on its sticking points,
The blackbirds sing, and singing take their stand.
I took your news outdoors, and found the Spring
Had honoured all its promises to start
Disclosing how the principles of earth
Can make a common purpose with the heart.
The heart which slips and sidles like a stream
Weighed down by winter-wreckage near its source -
But given time, and come the clearing rain,
Breaks loose to revel in its proper course.

Andrew Motion

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The outfits are indeed nice, but the WTF is up with that headgear? I've seen these types of hats in Jenners and other posh-ish department stores for hundred of pounds or more even! o_O Why? Why would anyone wear them? What is compelling these people?

Sharon: I missed the Vicar of Dibley? Drat. I love her.

Dan wasn't here when that part of the wedding was playing. When I told him my Vicar of Dibley sighting, he said, "Well, maybe it *was* her." Wouldn't that be great if it were?

You're right, skdadl -- it was funny and you could look at it on different levels. It was irreverent without being disrespectful.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
[QB]Boom Boom, Bramble Bush was Camilla's daughter, Laura. She's quite pretty, I thought, and the son is nice looking too. QB]

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But No Yards, be thankful for small mercies. At least no one "gave" anyone else "away."

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Heph, would you mind changing "Camiller" in the thread title to "Camilla" - thanks!

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Not until the bloody Limeys learn to speak English without adding a superfluous "r" onto the end of words that end in a vowel...

Our minister was such a liberal (Dutch Reformed, but ok'd to do United, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc etc etc services) that I was tempted to start demanding more and more tradition. When he gave us the pasteurized texts for the service, I started quizzing him about more traditional texts. Finally he got up and went to his bookshelf, pulled down an ancient volume, and began to read to us from what I am sure was a C19 Presbyterian service -- doom, gloom, hellfire and brimstone, boy.

So I gave up and stopped him and said that the pasteurized version would be ok. And it was, mainly because Fang, so cool during the run-up, sobbed his way through the whole thing.

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]

I wonder if Camilla does camp?

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

In the US:

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Cathie Farrel of Women's Entertainment, which boasts a show called "Young, Sexy and Royal," said the channel's target audience of 25- to 54-year-old women were big royal watchers.

"The royals are something that's interesting because it's like a soap opera."

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...it's like watching a pointless episode of Masterpiece Theatre (even had the musical intro in there), sumptuously and expensively costumed and artfully filmed. I like MT, but this is really happening - all the bowing, scraping and lining up to get a glimpse, even a handshake. This dysfunctional family is a Corporation and embodies all that the left rails against in terms of unearned privelege & wealth.

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Where do you think the BBC gets its television concepts from? Wouldn't you have just died to be among the crowd and hear all the witty, catty, comically inane things being said by all of these glitterati? Wouldn't you have just died to be the disaffected cynic among them, all at once amused and appalled by the absurdity of it all? Wouldn't you have been floored by the elaborate open bars?

There.

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keeping up appearances.

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Redneck, it is not "safe" to insult women for ageing. I hate the ruling class a durned sight more than a lot of people on this board, but that is nothing but sexism.

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Eh? I don't even get this. Lagatta, are you indulging, once more, in your usual "trial by fire" where you force newbies into a confrontation?

Honestly, Lagatta...sometimes I really don't understand your hostility.

Hey, Redneck Leftie...your first post wasn't today. It was the 23rd of November, 2003.

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

It's awful how the fascists prey on our humanity, isn't it?

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Here is the poem that Andrew Motion, the poet laureate, produced. Not bad, given everything.

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No, not bad. And it's appropriate that it should have a lot of garden imagery, because Charles is so fond of gardening.