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Author Topic: Harvard chief again to face angry faculty over sexist remarks
Hephaestion
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posted 23 February 2005 06:09 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought Harvard was supposed to be a bastion of advanced knowledge?!

quote:
In a rare second faculty meeting in a week, set for this afternoon, critics of Harvard University President Lawrence H. Summers are expected to excoriate him again for his leadership style and recent remarks about women in science and engineering.

But the leader of the nation's oldest academic institution also retains a strong base of support among university officials and increasingly vocal groups of students, professors and former Washington colleagues whose counsel he has sought.

Conspicuous by their relative public silence during a month-long onslaught of criticism from within the university and beyond, many backers of the former Treasury secretary agree he made a major blunder at a Jan. 14 meeting of the National Bureau of Economic Research by referring to differences of "intrinsic aptitude" for science between men and women.

But they also point out that he has taken tangible steps - such as creating two task forces on women in academia, meeting with students and faculty members, and apologizing at every opportunity - that demonstrate his commitment to change.

"I think we should acknowledge that he made a mistake, learn from it and move forward," said economics professor David Laibson, who along with a colleague has gathered more than 180 faculty members' signatures on a letter that praises Summers's "lifetime of public service" and "remarkable energy" and says he "will continue to make positive and significant contributions" to Harvard.

Others believe that Summers's bluntness has been just what the university needs, and some support his right to say what he thinks - even undiplomatically - in the tradition of allowing wide-ranging freedom of expression on campus. Faculty in Harvard's many professional schools have expressed more support for Summers than colleagues in the arts and sciences.



From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 23 February 2005 08:35 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"I think we should acknowledge that he made a mistake, learn from it and move forward," said economics professor David Laibson, who along with a colleague has gathered more than 180 faculty members' signatures on a letter that praises Summers's "lifetime of public service" and "remarkable energy" and says he "will continue to make positive and significant contributions" to Harvard.

Aww, isn't that sweet of him. But you're not the one who is being discriminated against, now, are you, Davey? How touching, that the old boys' club are sticking up for each other.

BTW, this has nothing to do with academic freedom. Or if it does, then why are this creep's supporters not supporting the academic freedom of women on campus to object to what Summers said?

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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skdadl
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posted 23 February 2005 08:51 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The controversy has started up again because the full transcript of what Summers said was released last week, and his remarks turned out to be even more rambling and sloppy than had been reported. Even the NY Times felt compelled to write an editorial critical of him, finally.

It must be admitted that university presidents are seldom chosen for being deep thinkers.

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


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Michelle
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posted 23 February 2005 08:55 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But, skdadl, don't you think it's exceedingly precious that a male economics professor has taken it upon himself to declare that everything's okay now, and that Summers is all forgiven and has collected 180 signatures to say so? Don't you think that's just charming, that he wants to focus on the future instead of silly little past things like, oh, saying that it doesn't matter that hardly any women get into tenured positions at Harvard and excusing it on the grounds that women just aren't very smart in comparison to men?

I think that's so special.


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Reality. Bites.
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posted 23 February 2005 08:59 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How about a compromise where they don't fire him for his remarks, but for being too stupid to do the job?
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Contrarian
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posted 23 February 2005 12:44 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
...Don't you think that's just charming, that he wants to focus on the future instead of silly little past things...

Welcome to Dubya's World. 'Iraq is the past now, let's all move on.'

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brebis noire
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posted 23 February 2005 12:50 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Contrarian:

Welcome to Dubya's World. 'Iraq is the past now, let's all move on.'

Perhaps a bit of thread drift but it reminds me of the Bush clip I heard this week (quoting from memory) : "the suggestion that we're planning to attack Iran is ridiculous. That said, all options are on the table."

WUT??? This can only be a prime example of Harvard's impeccable logic.


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skdadl
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posted 23 February 2005 12:56 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is amusing to see who is coming out of the woodwork to support Summers, who is an old Clinton hand.

The Harvard economics department, well sure, but that's predictable, and small potatoes.

I think that Rush Limbaugh has already been heard from. I'm waiting for Lynn Cheney.


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Bacchus
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posted 23 February 2005 12:56 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fire him and Ward Churchill and make the right and the left happy
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skdadl
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posted 23 February 2005 01:00 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why should Ward Churchill be fired? He's a professor. He doesn't set policy, and he can't influence anyone else's hiring. For him, freedom of expression, pure and simple.

For a senior administrator who may be influencing discriminatory hiring practices, other standards apply.


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Bacchus
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posted 23 February 2005 01:05 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
He doesn't set policy, and he can't influence anyone else's hiring. For him, freedom of expression, pure and simple.

Well he can influence how students do and are marked in his class, ala Paul Fromm.

edited to add

But it was a flip comment. I do feel however, that since he apologized and caught hell for it, then let it go and watch his behavior from now on.

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: Bacchus ]


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skdadl
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posted 23 February 2005 01:10 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bacchus, I agree there can be a fuzzy line. But with individual scholars, I think it is always so important to emphasize protected speech. They are supposed to be out on the cutting edge, pushing the limits.

Summers' defenders have tried to make the same defence for him, but to me that doesn't wash. First of all, apparently his remarks were incompetent on the face of it, filled with mere conjecture and speculation as well as self-flattery. And then there's the problem of the position of a president and his responsibility to set policy for all, which an individual prof doesn't have.


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Bacchus
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posted 23 February 2005 01:13 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can see your point, I'd jsut prefer to lean toward leniency so we dont have a Pipes-like atmosphere in the academic world.

Now if they can show he does influence the university to his thinking for hiring, governing etc, thats different. But if he doesnt let his personal beliefs interfere with his actions as president, then he can babble on for all I care.


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skdadl
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posted 23 February 2005 01:19 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I'm not after his firing. Yet.

I do think that his defenders need ridiculing and the hiring policies need watching. Apparently he has been shamed into starting an investigatory committee into hiring in the sciences and engineering, so that's a benefit.


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Bacchus
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posted 23 February 2005 01:30 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That works for me

Now if we could jsut fix Daniels Pipes little red wagon, I'd be satisfied

check yer PMs too


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Contrarian
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posted 23 February 2005 01:37 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem with Churchill is that there is the academic freedom issue; but there is also a separate question about his scholarship, that he may have made up some history, citing sources that did not say what he claimed they said. If this is true, and if he cannot provide a defence or at least a retraction, then he deserves to be fired. The trouble is that people might think he was being fired for speaking his mind rather than for dishonest scholarship.
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Hephaestion
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posted 23 February 2005 03:29 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brebis noire:
WUT??? This can only be a prime example of Harvard's impeccable logic.

Ummm...Bush went to Yale.

~~~~~~~~~~

forced to edit 'coz I had a brain fart.

[ 23 February 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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brebis noire
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posted 23 February 2005 03:47 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But he also has a MBA from Harvard.
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v michel
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posted 23 February 2005 04:04 PM      Profile for v michel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, he certainly has the right to say whatever he wants.

But this goes deeper than that. As University president he sets policy on hiring and tenure, he represents the University to the world, and sets the direction of the University at large. Sure he can think whatever he wants about women's suitability for tenure and high-powered professions - but it is reasonable to assume that his beliefs in this regard will inform those decisions.

So I am with Michelle on this one. For the Econ professor and other petitioners to brush this off as a mistake is ridiculous. It was not a mistake. The man spoke candidly about what he believed, and now the University community is thinking about whether they want someone with those beliefs leading them.

The sense that he somehow made a mistake is really insulting to me. I guess the mistake was that he actually said what he thought, and forgot to keep those comments to himself in the boys' clubhouse or something? No, no mistake was made! He expounded on his personal beliefs and philosophies. He's in a position where those beliefs may actually influence policy, and now is dealing with the natural and expected consequences of that.


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Contrarian
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posted 23 February 2005 05:45 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
vmichel, if you are responding to me, I was talking about Ward Churchill; as for the Harvard President; maybe he should be forced to take sensitivity training or something. If he does have an influence on hiring policies, then it would be good if they could dump him. But how many others who influence hiring share his prejudices without making them public?

And for all their reputations, how much space do Yale and Harvard set aside for babysitting the dumb children of rich alumni?


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Hephaestion
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posted 23 February 2005 05:46 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brebis noire:
But he also has a MBA from Harvard.

Says something about the "standards" of both then, no?


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robbie_dee
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posted 23 February 2005 06:22 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As a tenured faculty member Summers should be free to speak on issues however he wishes. As President of Harvard he has a responsibility not to put his foot in his mouth in such a clumsy way. He also has a responsibility to foster an inclusive environment at the nation's premier university.

Just two years ago Summers drove Cornel West off the Harvard faculty and alienated a number of other professors and students of colour while doing so. I see this latest controversy as more of the same.

In my opinion, Summers is probably more a buffoon than a bigot. But that still means he's poorly suited for his job.


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Geneva
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posted 24 February 2005 11:28 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found the 3-4 articles in Slate.com on the subject gave the best roundup, with a lot of detail:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2113810/

http://slate.msn.com/id/2112570/

as for Summers on Cornel West, not so simple as West contends; talk about playing the race card!

West was awarded the very very top posting that Harvard offers, University Professor, and Summers pointed out that West's production wasn't measuring up, to date;
quite another story

[ 24 February 2005: Message edited by: Geneva ]


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v michel
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posted 24 February 2005 02:02 PM      Profile for v michel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Contrarian:
vmichel, if you are responding to me, I was talking about Ward Churchill; as for the Harvard President; maybe he should be forced to take sensitivity training or something. If he does have an influence on hiring policies, then it would be good if they could dump him. But how many others who influence hiring share his prejudices without making them public?

Sorry, I was unclear. I wasn't responding to any poster in particular, and I was talking about Summers (not Churchill).

It's a good point about those who may share his prejudices. That's why I think he should be dumped. As University Pres. the following Vice Presidents report directly to him (I got this info from the Harvard website):

Associate VP for Equal Opportunity Employment
and Affirmative Action
VP Administration
VP Finance
VP & General Counsel

... among others. He is hiring and supervising the people who set hiring and supervisory policy. I do wonder how many of them share his opinions, since he hired them and is their boss. If the board (his boss) disagrees with his ideas in those areas, he should go. And if the faculty disagree with his ideas in those areas, they should make that clear to the board (as they have).


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Rebecca West
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posted 24 February 2005 02:46 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I, for one, welcome every opportunity for dinosaurs like Summers to publically reveal why exactly women, with a few notable exceptions, continue to be 2nd class citizens economically, professionally and socially. Ignorant relics who aren't bright enough to camoflage the gender stereotypes they still cling to, still occupy positions of power and influence, should be encouraged to broadcast their ignorance as a reminder of how much work we still have to do before we can sit back, put our feet up, and say, "ah, finally equality".

Most of these guys are bright enough sparks to keep their mouths shut about their archaic notions of women's abilities and compentance, so the inequities are more subtle, more behind-the-scenes and easier to disguise, leaving an impression that women have gained much more in opportunity and equity than they actually have.

Bravo Summers! Keep that foot planted firmly in your mouth, we're counting on you!


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