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Author Topic: Homophobic murder in South London
lagatta
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posted 17 October 2005 03:48 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A gay man was set upon and beaten to death in South London (UK), by goons who were evidently shouting homophobic abuse at him. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/4346846.stm


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Hephaestion
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posted 17 October 2005 05:22 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 


RIP Jody Dobrowski



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Hephaestion
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posted 17 October 2005 05:45 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
additional details in this story
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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 18 October 2005 12:45 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Arrests Made; Bail Granted
quote:
Three teenage boys have been arrested and bailed over the murder of a gay man beaten to death on Clapham Common.
They were questioned on Monday about the death of 24-year-old bar manager Jody Dobrowski who was found beaten on the south London common.
...
A police spokesman said the three were initially held on suspicion of motor vehicle offences.

They were subsequently arrested on Monday afternoon and questioned in connection with the murder.

They have been released on bail until a date in November.


Edited to add:

Homophobic killers' threat to second man

quote:
Two men suspected of launching a homophobic attack that killed a man on Clapham Common, also threatened to beat up another gay man on the same night, The Guardian has learned.
...
The man who was threatened stumbled on the attack of Mr Dobrowski. The two men threatened to attack him unless he backed off, which he did, and continued to punch Mr Dobrowski, who died hours later in hospital from his injuries.
...
Police believe their two main suspects had attacked gay men before and fear the killers may strike again

If police say they pose a continuing threat, why did these guys get bail?

[ 18 October 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


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Tuppence
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posted 18 October 2005 08:43 PM      Profile for Tuppence     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why indeed, Tape. Appalling.
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Hephaestion
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posted 18 October 2005 11:34 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Apparently because they are only a threat to queers, not anyone who really matters.
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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 20 October 2005 10:15 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The BBC reports that police have found that the nasty murderous trio was busy indeed on the night in question:

quote:
Detectives investigating the murder of a gay bar manager on Clapham Common believe his killers may have verbally abused a woman moments earlier.
Jody Dobrowski, 24, was found beaten in south London at midnight on Saturday.

Fifteen minutes earlier, two men matching descriptions of Mr Dobrowski's killers, had made sexual comments to a woman in nearby Battersea Rise.



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skdadl
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posted 20 October 2005 10:23 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Appalling. Why are they out on bail? I can't get over that.
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jeff house
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posted 20 October 2005 12:27 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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skdadl
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posted 20 October 2005 12:31 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Touche, jeff house, but in that case, who is ever denied bail and on what basis?
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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 20 October 2005 12:33 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
Maybe they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

So, are there any circumstances under which you would support defendants' being remanded to custody pending trial?


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Albireo
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posted 20 October 2005 12:34 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
Maybe they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Sure, but there is always an assessment of risk. If there is a pattern of behaviour that indicates either a flight risk or further offenses while on bail, then bail can be denied. I couldn't say if bail was justified without more information, but at first glance I'm inclined to think that these guys should be held until trial.

[ 20 October 2005: Message edited by: Albireo ]


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brebis noire
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posted 20 October 2005 12:47 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also jeff, does according bail to suspects of this type of crime send out a message, such as 'we're not sure they did it'. Or is it simply procedure?

Also, I'm not aware if 'political' suspects are accorded bail - presumed innocent, and all that.


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jeff house
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posted 20 October 2005 02:09 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It may well be that they should be kept in jail until their trial. It should depend on the question of their overall dangerous, pattern, etc.

But we shouldn't start with the idea that, just because the allegations are serious, therefore they are presumed guilty.

In defending my clients, I often see the followin pattern:

1. Four people accused of serious crime.

2. All detained until trial (two years later).

3. At trial, it turns out that one, or more, didn't do it, were wrongly identified, were standing nearby but did nothing, etc.

4. Once you see this pattern a few times, and see that someone's life is seriously harmed while in jail without having committed an offence, you begin to appreciate the need for bail.

In Canada, right now, people are presumed to have the right to bail for most charges. But for murder, you are presumed NOT to be releasable, and you must establish sufficient reason to be released. That is why most murder suspects remain in jail for years before trial.

There are, in Canada, three grounds for detention in a usual case. One, the person won't show for trial. Two, the person is likely to commit further offences if granted bail. Third, a "tertiary ground".

This last one refers to situations which would outrage the public, such as cases of substantial violence in which guilt is very likely. The case I remember involved a baby sitter at home with an infant, became enraged, and pressed an iron into the child's face, burning her terribly. The child was able to say who had done it, and there were no reasons to believe the child was protecting anyone. So, in those cases, even if the person would likely come to court, and has no record or likelihood of doing in again before trial, still detention is required.

Wrongful detention occurs regularly in Canada, because Justices of the Peace might face public complaint if they let someone out and he/she commits further offences. But keeping people in almost never gives rise to complaint from the public.


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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 21 October 2005 04:52 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Details of the intensity of the attack:

BBC:

quote:
A gay barman murdered on Clapham Common was beaten so severely he could not be recognised by his own family, Scotland Yard has revealed.

Jody Dobrowski, 24, was identified by his fingerprints after the attack in south-west London on Saturday night, which police believe was homophobic.

Two white men, aged in their 20s, are being hunted by police.
...
Det Ch Insp Nick Scola said: "This was a brutal attack which left Jody's face so badly injured that he could not be identified visually, even by those who knew and loved him the most.
...
Detectives are examining whether there is a link between Mr Dobrowski's murder and a series of homophobic attacks in the area.



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Hephaestion
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posted 22 October 2005 10:42 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two suspects have been charged

quote:
London's Metropolitan Police late Friday charged two men in the brutal killing of a 24 year old man last weekend.

The pair, aged 33 and 25, were picked up in separate sections of London and taken to different police stations.

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Hephaestion
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posted 24 October 2005 07:13 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Suspects make court appearance

quote:
Two homeless men appeared in a London court Monday charged with beating and stomping a gay man to death in what police have described as the most brutal crime they had seen.

[...]

Thomas Pickford, 25, and Scott Walker were silent in court as the charges were read. They spoke only to confirm their names and date of birth.

Pickford is unemployed. Walker is described as a house painter.

The pair was remanded in custody. They will be back in court on January 31.

[...]

Police Monday said the men remain under investigation in connection with a number of assaults and robberies of gay men in the park.

Gay rights activists have been critical of police for not warning gays that there had been a series of attacks on gays in the Common prior to Dobrowski's murder.

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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 24 March 2006 11:23 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two More Attacks on Clapham Common

quote:
A GAY-BASH thug beat one man unconscious and tried to strangle another - yards from the scene of an alleged homophobic murder.

One victim, a 40-year-old gay man, was punched and kicked to the floor, suffering a broken leg and severe facial injuries.

Another, aged 29, was throttled with his own scarf when he was set upon in the same secluded spot on cruising haunt Clapham Common.

Both were attacked in a wooded area yards from where gay barman Jody Dobrowski, 24, was allegedly battered to death in October
...
The first man was set upon at 4am after approaching the thug and suggesting he was gay. He flew into a rage and lashed out with kicks and punches, beating his victim unconscious and breaking his right leg.
...
Detectives believe the gay basher... may have tried to strangle another man in the same secluded spot earlier that night.



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Hephaestion
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posted 26 March 2006 02:07 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's another one...

Life sentence for gay man's 'sadistic killer'

quote:
A man described as a "sadistic killer" fixated on murder mystery novels and serial killings has been sentenced to life for the killing of a man he picked up in a London park. Police said the sentence will take a potential mass murderer off the streets.

Gerrard Roger Hendra was to have been only Mark Papazian's first killing in what was to have been a gay killing spree, police said after the verdict was delivered.

Papazian, 50, met Hendra, 65, last June at a north London park known as a gay cruising spot and went back to Hendra's home with him for sex. The court was told that after engaging in sex Papazian beat Hendra over the head with a hammer and then slit his throat.

[...]

A neighbor described him as "bookish but pleasant" and said that as a result of suffering polio as a child he walked with a distinct limp.

Papazian will be 74 by the time he is eligible for parole.

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