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Author Topic: Looking for critical views on YoungLife
N.Beltov
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posted 24 October 2008 10:50 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm looking for critical views on a religious organization in Canada, Young Life Canada, which seems to be about recruiting young people in a non-denominational way to religion. It's probably a right-wing front but more information would be useful.

I see that: former Reform Party Leader Preston Manning is a board member; as is Charles Allard, President of Rosedale Meadow Developments Inc. from Edmonton, Alberta; as is Edmontonian Dan Klemke, President of KMC Mining Corporation, and so on.

Board Members over here.

Much thanks, in advance, and feel free to PM me with real dirt if you've got it.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 24 October 2008 05:42 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just using Google, I found few items on Young Life. In fact, your post was the top of page two on Google Canada, Beltov.

It's a branch of Young Life USA, and the only critical artcle from the web I found as this:

web page

And it links to other articles in support of this view, rather like an echo chamber amber amber.

It's not "dirt", but rather criticism over inner politics/philosophy and the way current leadership is treating employees, it seems.

For others who have better spellunking skills than mine who might want to dig around on line, here's the Wiki description that provides general background:

Young Life


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 October 2008 04:03 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
I see that: former Reform Party Leader Preston Manning is a board member; as is Charles Allard, President of Rosedale Meadow Developments Inc. from Edmonton, Alberta; as is Edmontonian Dan Klemke, President of KMC Mining Corporation, and so on.

Ha! Preston Manning is on the Board of "YoungLife"?

Here's a picture of the 2006 Board. Do ANY of these people look even remotely "young" to you? I mean, heck, there doesn't even seem to be a token "young person" on it:


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 October 2008 04:10 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I see. This is supposed to be like a Christian "big brother" or "big sister" type organization.

I'm amused by this description:

quote:
Crazy activities! Incredible camps! Wild weekend trips! New friends! Zany leaders! So, you want details? Young Life's unique approach ocuses on some key elements:

Yes, please give me details about what a "zany leader" Preston Manning is, or about how "zany" these corporate CEOs on the Board are. Puh-lease!

quote:
An experience in controlled chaos, Club, usually associated with a high school, typically meets weekly for an hour or so. Young Life leaders create a high energy environment featuring songs, skits, and participation games. Towards the end of the evening, a leader gives a talk on an aspect of the Christian message. Club is the place to be, to enjoy friends and be part of the action. Club is a safe place to be one's self and to express that teenage tendancy to push the limits.

Snerk!

Anyhow, so this thing sounds like a way of getting church youth bible clubs into schools and to preach to the heathen children. Nothing new.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 25 October 2008 04:17 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Safe Christian place?

quote:
We want kids to know they are loved and valued. Therefore, we offer them adult friendships as well as a creative fun filled program within the framework of a trusting relationship.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 25 October 2008 11:44 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, guys. I'm going to be keeping an eye on these folks. They're certainly not worthy of the SCM, or Student Christian Movement, who had a long history of social justice concerns. And it looks like they are still around.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 25 October 2008 12:13 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NB, I found a PDF file of an excellent article that examines the relationship between US foundation funding and fundamentalist Christian movement with a quest to influence policy-making by government.

You'll note on page 11, Young Life ranks third behind Campus Crusade for Life and Gospel Communications International, and is followed by Focus on the Family and Life Action Ministries (among others on that list of top 10 grant recipients).

The report concludes:

quote:
Despite these challenges, the role of evangelicals in
politics is not likely to diminish any time soon and, in
fact, should increase in the coming years because of the
very nature of evangelical organizations. A calling to
spread the faith has resulted in large religious demo-
graphic changes both at home and abroad. Also, the
tremendous resources being put into campus missions,
another hallmark of conservative philanthropy, are
unmatched by any other group or cause, political or
otherwise. This recruiting effort should be seen for what
it is—the expression of religious freedom in a democra-
cy. But the incursion of partisan politics into that expres-
sion must be treated differently.
While evangelicals in Congress are attempting to
make churches less accountable for their political neu-
trality, policymakers should be moving in the opposite
direction. The ambiguities in the tax code that exempt
“religious organizations” from reporting and accounta-
bility requirements should be clarified with an eye
toward protecting legitimate community houses of wor-
ship. Allowing religious organizations like Campus
Crusade for Christ or a local rescue mission to keep
their finances secret is a recipe for financial malfea-
sance—or in a worst-case scenario, physical or psycho-
logical harm to people seeking services from these
organizations—in the name of religion.
Additionally, the political activities of religious
organizations are another example of the overarching
need for enforcement across the philanthropic sector.
Whether it is the use of foundations or nonprofits for
personal enrichment, or the partisan activities of
churches, there is much to oversee. But while the IRS is
charged with protecting the public interest granted
through tax exemption, previous NCRP work has shown
that it does not have the resources to do this job ade-
quately.
...

The concerted effort by conservative philanthropy
over the last 30 years to weaken, dilute or shrink the
government has proven tremendously successful. The
power of the private sector over government has
increased dramatically in the past three decades. Now,
whether planned or as a side effect of that weakening of
government, evangelical Christian leaders seek to sub-
ordinate government to religion. Based on the previous
success of their supporters at conservative foundations,
it is not unimaginable that they might succeed.


Funding the Culture Wars

I found this profile of the Young Life (Parkland, BC) Area Director interesting:

quote:
Holly was introduced to Young Life in 2003 while working in a genetics laboratory in Nanaimo, British Columbia. Her friend Lori encouraged her to volunteer several hours a week building friendships with junior high girls. Fun adventures and meaningful conversations ensued! After her first experience as a leader at summer camp, Holly was sold on the idea of Young Life as a vocation and ministry. She joined staff on Vancouver Island in 2006 after graduating from the University of Alberta with a Bachelor of Science in molecular genetics....

Young Life Parkland Area Director

There is a huge interest among the religious right to fund molecular genetic studies that prove creationism. They are also heavily involved in recruiting and influencing environmental scientists who are climate-change deniers. Kind of makes sense that Preston Manning (who is on the Young Life Canada Board) was recently appointed to the federal science advisory panel by Harper.

G&M July 11, 2008


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ElizaQ
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posted 25 October 2008 12:26 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Thanks, guys. I'm going to be keeping an eye on these folks. They're certainly not worthy of the SCM, or Student Christian Movement, who had a long history of social justice concerns. And it looks like they are still around.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


This is purely accecdotal, but when I was in highschool more then 20 years ago, Young Life came to campus. Several of my friends in my peer group at the time went to the meeting and ended up going to one of the camps. Most of them were what I would call unchurched. I remember the leader guy who at that time was just allowed to walk the halls and talk to people. People just fell in love with him and I think if I remember correctly it had as much to do with the fact that he was really 'hot' as anything else.

A couple of my friends got really into it and they actually brought the guy to their homes and would invite us all there. I think I went once and decided that it was just too weird and creepy. I do recall that after they went to the camp they came back and really seemed changed and actually started walking around with their Bibles and one girl in particular took it upon herself to start preaching to me about how the Church that I attended at the time (United) wasn't good enough or 'Biblical' enough and kept trying to get me to join them. This after one week of what I now look at as indoctrination.

I have no idea what happened to them because it pretty much split our peer group apart and the YL'ers became their own clique and unless you 'believed' you couldn't hang out with them.


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laine lowe
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posted 25 October 2008 12:27 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seems that Young Life has created a very appealing youth ministry through Skate Life.

Skate Life

The religious political right like to use the term non-denominational Christianity a lot. It somehow implies that they don't have a religious conversion agenda but that is far from the truth.

An article about Skate Life certainly makes their aim more obvious:

quote:
GOD IS working in teenage lives, and he's doing it with skateboards. To Young Life leaders and teens in Aldergrove, a skateboard is much more than a piece of plywood with four wheels. It is a vehicle for introducing kids to Christ.

It all began six years ago when Dean Dahl, then area director, and Andrew Strijack began a 'Sk8 Club' out of the back of their skateboard shop, Speedies.

They found they had an opportunity to spread the gospel just by hanging out with teens in their own world. Thus began 'Hard Core Tuesdays,' a Bible study for seekers.

Since then, skateboarders have increased in number, with the club meeting every Thursday night under the direction of Strijack, Vincent Dahl, Derek Sebula and Marty Nielsen. Teen skaters can be found practicing 360s, perfecting 'ollies' or 'dropping in' at the Aldergrove outdoor skate-park, at the ramp in Speedies Sk8 shop, or in Local 511 -- a brand new indoor skate warehouse built out of an old 1930s garage.

Girls can skate too. Ladies' Night is an exciting new development; every other Friday night, these female skaters (aka 'Bettys') start off with coffee-time and a philosophers' cafe. Topics range from 'What is beauty?' to 'Is suicide selfish?' Afterwards, the girls head out to learn how to skate -- they have proved that they can be just as fearless as the boys, and they have pushed leaders Tamara Strijack and myself to become skateboard pros.

All this crazy activity culminates in the two-week August Skate Camp, currently in its fourth year. Last year's camp saw 150 kids from all over Canada descend on Westbank (Kelowna), where there were enough speakers, pro skateboarders, Medieval Games and Battles of Hoth to keep teens talking for months.

The biggest thrill was the number of kids who heard the gospel and committed their lives to Christ. "Skate Camp is the most amazing thing that ever happened to me," says teen Christy Dixon. "Seeing my friends become Christians was just an awesome thing." Ana Orantes, now a Young Life leader-in-training, remarks: "What I liked about Skate Camp was watching the guys in general; they really changed throughout the days at Camp."

Jake, teen skater extraordinaire, says he liked going to the camp as part of the work crew. "When I started going to the pre-camp Bible studies, I wasn't a Christian, but by the third day of camp, I decided I wanted to be."...


sk8 for Jesus


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 25 October 2008 12:58 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks laine and ElizaQ. I've got a close relative being sucked into the evil vortex and the information is all useful.

Thank God I didn't get sucked into this shit myself, long ago. My parents installed a Bullshit Detector TM at an early age ... for which I am eternally grateful.


TM see Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961) for this expression, or one very much like it.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 October 2008 01:27 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Thank God I didn't get sucked into this shit myself, long ago. My parents installed a Bullshit Detector TM at an early age ... for which I am eternally grateful.

Yeah. I think my parents did too. I wasn't overtly religious by any means, but I guess I knew enough to smell a rat even though I was pretty naive about that sort of thing at the time. Looking back and recollecting some of the behavior I don't think I'd be stretching to say that for my friends that got involved that it became rather cult like. They were sucked in by a whole lot of feel good messages and 'charisma' and it went from there.

I do remember one other incident which I don't remember being that big a deal at the time, but now looking back at it realize what it was indicative of. One of my friends at the house party decided that she needed a bible. Now for me at the time the bible wasn't a big deal and I had several at home that had been given to me over the years by relatives that were basically gathering dust on our bookshelves, literally, so I lent or maybe even gave it to her. A few months later she gave it back and seemed sort of angry and told me that I had given her a 'bad' bible and that if that was the bible that I read that I was likely going to hell.

Huh? At the time I didn't have much of a clue what the heck she was talking about and in my 14 year old ways just shrugged and said, "Yeah whatever.." or something like that and it went back on the shelf.

I'm guessing now that it had something to do with the translation which I believe is considered to be a more 'liberal' or 'modern' one.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 25 October 2008 01:38 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What a shame the left doesn't have the kind of cash to throw around to influence young people in such an organized way. Harper, and those who think like him, would be back sniveling with the NCC and pouting like a small child.
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 25 October 2008 06:36 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
What a shame the left doesn't have the kind of cash to throw around to influence young people in such an organized way. Harper, and those who think like him, would be back sniveling with the NCC and pouting like a small child.

The religious right has been very organized for quite some decades and are reaping the benefits of their programs. It really is sad.

I have a friend from the US who I met in late 80s who I believe was approached by a similar group if not the same group. She was turned on to Jesus by a young man at her high school who was there to run outreach programs and bible reading. Her parents were divorcing at the time so she was vulnerable to any emotional comfort she might get. Anyway, she told me when I met her that the guy had sexually abused her and she turned away from her born again beliefs. She was into the Dead and drugs while at university and was pretty much a free spirit when I met her.

Unfortunately, in my view, her early exposure to that brand of Christianity had a toe hold on her. She eventually re-discovered her born again ways and threw herself into religious groups who were involved with the Republicans. She even went to the 2000 and 2004 Republican conventions as a delegate for Bush.

When I think of the sites that were created to denigrate Dion, I not only think of Republican style politics but of the young people who might be behind it and attracted by it. And I really do think we as Canadians are naive to think that the religious right hasn't had an impact on our politics.


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 25 October 2008 07:11 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Funny, I used to get more bent out of shape over this stuff not too long ago. I mean, I used to be the anti-religion crusader here, and pissed off more than a couple people, in the process.

As Bill Maher said on "The Hour", it wasn't my intention to offend... but if it happens...

I think Beltov is right to be concerned about a family member being indoctrinated. I'd be upset, and doing what I could to prevent it.

But, it may be a larger fight than "Young Life" or religion in general. There's a certain mindset. I know too many people who ossilate between substance addiction and religious addiction to think it's not some kind of mental condition.

Maybe, Beltov, Young Life is a symptom, and not the problem. And if not, then I doubt they can get a hold on them.

quote:
People just fell in love with him and I think if I remember correctly it had as much to do with the fact that he was really 'hot' as anything else.

This reminded me of a indoctrination technique a cult used called "flirty fishing", where a female member was encouraged to have sex with target males, in order to lure them into the cult.

quote:
Thank God I didn't get sucked into this shit myself, long ago. My parents installed a Bullshit Detector TM at an early age ... for which I am eternally grateful.

Rebecca West and I were talking about the religious views we had as kids, and the views of our parents just last night. She and I are similar in views, and had similar thought processes at similar ages, though her parents were a bit more religious than mine.

After reading Dawkin's and Hitchen's books on atheism earlier this year, I was astonished to learn that they were years behind me in the developmental path to atheism. I credit both men to be, oh, let's say a tad smarter than I. At least I beat them in one thing!

I've been a sceptic all my life. I think I was born this way, with a fully functioning bullshit detector, and I don't think the religosity of my parents, or lack of it, would have had much to do with my views on religion, and many other things.

Similarly, the "True Believers" amoung us may have, to varying degrees, a predisposition for religion, substance abuse, Q-Ray bracelets and "strategic" voting.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 25 October 2008 11:19 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just to be clear Tommy, while I might have really strong philosophical differences with most religions, I'm aiming at a certain kind of politics in religion, even masquerading as religion, and not religion in general. We've got plenty of babblers who might lump together the SCM with YoungLife or the United Church with the Dutch "Reform" Church ... but I'm not one of them.
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 26 October 2008 08:06 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, yeah, I do and I don't. But I think it's obvious that if we do lump all the religions together, and treat the United Church members like they are of the same mentality as fanatics who fly jet liners into sky scrappers, then all we end up with is more fanatics, not less religion.

What needs to be done is to leave relgion out of the religion debate, and start recognizing fanatic behavior-- of which devotion to a cult is one aspect-- as a kind of psychological dissorder.

Which is why I'd take a broader view of what your relative may be going through. It's good to know what Young Life is, but if you use that information to attack, then it's likely that you'll drive that person further in, rather than out.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 October 2008 08:10 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
... fanatics who fly jet liners into sky scrappers ...

Poor example, IMHO. You'd need some evidence that this action was motivated by "religion" as opposed to political motives. I haven't seen any such evidence yet. Even when Osama Bin Ladin speaks, he blames U.S. support for Israel and occupation of Saudi Arabia.

I think a better contrast would be United Church vs. Pope Herr Ratzinger.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 26 October 2008 08:34 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those nut jobs believed they were flying into paradise.

It's enough for me.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 26 October 2008 08:36 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking of Herr RRRRRatzinger, am I correct that he's still putting the breaks on the cannonization of Pius XII, the war time Pope?

I know the record of Pius XII is controversial, even amoung Jews.

An arguement for another thread.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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