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What do you call it when the Arabs expelled Jews living in settlements near Hebron and from the Jewish quarter of Old Jerusalem and also expelled hundreds of thousands of Jews from places like Cairo, Baghdad, Beirut, Yemen etc...and expropriated all their property?

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This is a common refrain from Israeli apologists...as if the way Arab countries treated Jews somehow justifies the occupation.

I have no objection to legitimate and constructive criticism of the Israel lobby. But that is beyond the pale. These ethnic stereotypes should be shunned by progressives.

[ 23 November 2007: Message edited by: Sheldon Gordon ]

For example, I could infer from your response that you are arguing that Jews are superior and not given to the same weaknesses as Western leaders and for that reason the puppet characterization offends you.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
The quote, wherever it comes from, doesn't actually reference "Jewish".

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That's irrelevant for a host of reasons - not least being the absurd notion that some "chief Israeli puppeteer" pulls the strings of some compliant U.S. president and Congress.

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Originally posted by Sheldon Gordon:
I have no objection to legitimate and constructive criticism of the Israel lobby. But that is beyond the pale. These ethnic stereotypes should be shunned by progressives.

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That's irrelevant for a host of reasons - not least being the absurd notion that some "chief Israeli puppeteer" pulls the strings of some compliant U.S. president and Congress.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

There are many who argue US foreign policy under Bush and Cheney is acting in the interests of Israeli rather than US interests. There is even a book released bu two US academics arguing essentially the same thing.

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Ah well, if there's even a book, it must be right.

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Originally posted by Petsy:
I know many rail at this but Unionist when there is reference to an "Israeli puppeteer" that the Israeli is Jewish does not enter your thought process?

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When I call Petsy a bad name, does that make me an anti-Semite?

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Have the academics explained why Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, and Johnson (I'll stop there for the moment) did likewise? Or are there more books coming in the series?

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It is hard to imagine it wasn’t, because Feith was selected by Cheney and Rumsfeld to run the “alternative” intelligence operation precisely because they knew he was an inveterate hawk, long committed publicly to a rollback strategy that would ensure Israel’s security through regime change in the Arab world, beginning with Iraq.

That radical and dangerous notion, based on a deep hostility to the Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts pursued by all previous presidents, had been clearly outlined by Feith in a 1996 report he co-wrote with Richard Perle and other prominent neoconservatives called “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” issued by an Israeli think tank. The report spelled out a rosy scenario under which a new post-Saddam Iraq with a Shiite-majority government would support a pro-Israel position.

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There is a lot more like that. Are they all wrong? Everyone of them?

On the other hand, I have also read that prominent Israeli politicians and military officers opposed the war in Iraq and predicted the chaos.

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Originally posted by unionist:

When I call Petsy a bad name, does that make me an anti-Semite?

Note: Jews have a bad habit of answering questions with questions, don't they?

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Somewhere lies the truth but denying out of hand won't lead there.

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Ok, how's this: America and Israel manipulate each other, but Israelis by no means control the U.S. government.

[ 23 November 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

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Originally posted by unionist:

Ah well, if there's even a book, it must be right.

Have the academics explained why Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, and Johnson (I'll stop there for the moment) did likewise? Or are there more books coming in the series?

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Originally posted by ohara:

That's being a bit disingenuous. No others (*than on Babble) would associate "petsy" with being Jewish. An "Israeli" puppeteer would more than likely be seen as Jewish.

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A response that is equally disingenuous, since no one outside of Babble would know of "petsy"s existence, let alone his religious affiliation, unless that actually is his name(and if so he has my deepest sympathy and a lot of questions are answered.)

[ 23 November 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

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Originally posted by ohara:
An "Israeli" puppeteer would more than likely be seen as Jewish.

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[Not sure why I'm bothering explaining this, but here goes anyway.]

If I accuse Olmert or Sharon of doing horrible things, the fact that they are (allegedly) Jewish has nothing to do with it. Likewise when I condemn Harper or Dion, their religion (or whatever) is irrelevant.

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An "Israeli" puppeteer would more than likely be seen as Jewish.

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Maybe the problem is that you can't see this "Israeli" except as being Jewish.

Is that possible?

[ 23 November 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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Maybe the problem is that you can't see this "Israeli" except as being Jewish.

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Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Yes, but is there an Israeli arab politician powerful enough to have influence over ANY aspect of american policy?

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When he says "the chief Israeli puppeteer comes to Washington", he's not talking about some U.S. lobbyist. He's talking about the Israeli head of state.