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Author Topic: Italian Election Thread
radiorahim
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posted 12 February 2006 11:47 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Italy goes to the polls April 9-10th.

Reuters News Agency Article

USA Today article

Open Democracy.net article

Wikipedia article including results of 2001 election

From my albeit limited knowledge of current Italian politics, my understanding is that the "centre-left" coalition is favoured to win.


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lagatta
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posted 27 February 2006 01:58 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's an interesting candidate: Vladimir Luxuria, a trangendered candidate of Rifonazione comunista (Communist Refoundation party) who is campaigning on LGBT rights - and social issues, no doubt.

And here is Luxuria's own website!

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: lagatta ]


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BetterRed
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posted 01 March 2006 02:11 AM      Profile for BetterRed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This would be interesting to watch. The left was always strong in Italy, but Berlusconi has a media empire, making it a big obstacle.

Now, I wish luck to Rifonazione comunista.
But as for your statement, shouldnt the parties concentrate on workers rights, pulling out troops from Iraq, and condemning globalization first ?
Not to offend anyone, just common sense...
Edit: I thought he was the party leader. I see now. My mistake.

[ 01 March 2006: Message edited by: BetterRed ]


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lagatta
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posted 01 March 2006 08:08 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rifondazione definitely concentrates on
quote:
workers' rights, pulling out troops from Iraq, and condemning globalization first ?
. I'm rather pleased that they are open to such a "flamboyant" candidate - typically such people (I don't mean transgendered people, but anyone who is seen as "over the top") would have stood for the Radicals.

The head of Rifondazione comunista is Fausto Bertinotti, a straight male (as far as I know) of a certain age with a typical trade-unionist and party background.

Do I put all the Berlusconi scandals in this thread or the "Berlusconi not fit to govern" thread?


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Stockholm
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posted 08 March 2006 02:44 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bump
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Hephaestion
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posted 10 March 2006 08:35 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reposting, as per the diplomatic suggestion of the Eschew Thread Proliferation Society... (just teasing, L.)

quote:
Joey the Rat accused of trying to influence national election

A meeting between right-of center Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and Pope Benedict was cancelled Tuesday after Italy's left coalition accused the Vatican of trying to use influence the outcome of this spring's election.

The opposition leftist party of Romano Prodi is ahead in the polls and poised to win the election next month.

Prodi said the meeting between the Pope and Berlusconi, just weeks before the election, was little more than a photo-op for the conservative Prime Minister.

[...]

The meeting was condemned by other members of Prodi's coalition. Green Party leader Alfonso Pecoraro Scanio said that he respects "the right of the Church to address questions of values, but it is very serious to receive only one of the candidates for prime minister just ahead of the ballot."

Communist leader Fausto Bertinotti, whose party is also a member of the coalition called for the Vatican to cancel the meeting.

In the end it was Berlusconi who cancelled but he accused Prodi of playing politics.

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lagatta
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posted 10 March 2006 09:14 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another salient point in this is how wishy-washy Prodi (the head of the centre-left coalition) is in support of LGBT rights and specifically of same-sex marriage. At a huge (250,000+) feminist demonstration in Milan in January, in support of the 1978 law decriminalising abortion, the demonstrators were also shouting out "We want Zapatero" - in reference to Spain's socialist coalition's far more courageous stand on same-sex marriage. At least one important lesbian organisation, Arcilesbica, is refusing to lend its support to the centre-left.
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lagatta
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posted 10 March 2006 09:53 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I am going to double-post on this particular thread. I also think I'm going to head to Nostra Signora della Difesa church in my neighbourhood (you know, the one with the infamous Mussolini mural) and light some lampions as I pray that these Berlusconi corruption charges will finally stick. Perhaps the involvement of the husband of a Blair cabinet minister will have SOME impact... I mean, I know Italians have been cynical about politics from long before Machiavelli (Boccaccio also had some wonderful observations, in particular about the Church) but Silvio is such an embarassment - there is something decidedly banana-republic about the guy!
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Hephaestion
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posted 10 March 2006 09:58 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
At a huge (250,000+) feminist demonstration in Milan in January, in support of the 1978 law decriminalising abortion, the demonstrators were also shouting out "We want Zapatero"


gawd, I *love* Italians. They're not only sexy, they're firey. Hmmmm.... what Zapatero couldn't do with that huge mausolium known as the Vatican... Har har har!

(Did y'all know St. Peter's Basilica is coated with marble stolen from the old colleseum? The same one where they [urban myth alert] "fed Xtians to the lions"?[/urban myth alert] No, didn't think ya did. But it's somehow fitting, no?

[ 10 March 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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lagatta
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posted 10 March 2006 10:27 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I don't love the kind of Italians who vote for Berlusconi. There is a sleazy undercurrent in that society - an admiration for crooks like him, especially in that Silvio really is a self-made-man - that is most galling, and I say that as a fervent lover of Italy, who would move there in a wink as soon as I could get a decent job and Renzo get clearance in terms of his rabies shots being up to date.

(And then I wind up meeting a guy from frigging Germany... Go figure)...

Heph, the main frustration gay male friends had while visiting the Boot was that all the lovely men were so well-turned-out (positive gay stereotype alert) and not only that, walking arm in arm with friends, that my gay visitor friends couldn't believe they weren't all gay! But don't worry - enough of them are, as anywhere.

Perhaps there aren't many lions on the loose in Rome any more, but there are lots of their smaller cousins even around the Colosseum.

By the way, a famous Italian student movement, La Pantera, was named for a panther who escaped from a zoo just as the movement was taking off.

[ 10 March 2006: Message edited by: lagatta ]


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Hephaestion
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posted 10 March 2006 10:40 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
heh... I must meet you some time, my feline friend. You could educate me. I always thought "La Pantera" was an Italian cigar. (It *is* a cigar, actually!)
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Wilf Day
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posted 10 March 2006 11:14 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
At a huge (250,000+) feminist demonstration in Milan in January, in support of the 1978 law decriminalising abortion, the demonstrators were also shouting out "We want Zapatero" - in reference to Spain's socialist coalition's far more courageous stand on same-sex marriage.

Spain's new prime minister has made history by assigning half of his cabinet seats to women and backing legislation to fight domestic violence and legalize abortion.
quote:
Spain's new prime minister is internationally best known for his decision last month to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq, which drew the ire of the Bush administration.

But domestically, Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero is attracting attention for making female empowerment a top priority.

Newsstands abound with pictures of Zapatero surrounded by colorfully dressed female ministers and Spanish media have made much of the cultural and visual shift from previous governments of mostly gray-suited men.



In one of his first interviews with a major foreign newspaper, the International Herald Tribune, he said:
quote:
"I'm a radical feminist. In my experience, out of every four people in politics, if they are women, 3 are really good. If they are men, only one and a half to two. That's my experience. For public life and for democratic coexistence, I think being a woman is a great advantage. Because they know how to share things better than men do. And politics is all about knowing how to share."

And a subtext to that, often missed in Canada, is the very name Zapatero. Like all Spaniards, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero has a surname from his father (Rodríguez) and his mother (Zapatero). His father was a lawyer; his mother a doctor.

Spaniards use both their maternal and paternal names, however, you should always address someone by their paternal name only. For example, 'Señor John Smith Wilson' (Smith being the father's name and Wilson the mother's name) would be addressed as 'Señor Smith'.

Except Zapatero.

In Iberian countries people have at least two surnames (family names). One is inherited from the father, the other from the mother. Parents both give their father's first part of his family name to their children as a new family name.

quote:
In most Spanish speaking countries, the father's surname is written before the mother's surname (although there are occasional exceptions to this rule). Thus, for instance, Vicente Fox Quesada is Señor Fox (Mr. Fox in English), not Señor Quesada, and "Fox" is not his middle name.

In Portuguese speaking countries, the father's surname is in most cases after the mother's surname. In these countries, it is very frequent that children get two surnames from each of their parents, thus having usually the last surname of each of their grandparents.

The traditional naming conventions are now changing as attitudes toward gender equality evolve. In Portugal, since 1977, the child's last name can come either from the father or from the mother, but the latter is still very uncommon. The law in Spain has undergone a similar change; as in Portugal, it has had little effect on custom.

Occasionally, a person with a common paternal surname and an uncommon maternal surname becomes widely known by the maternal surname, as with the artist Pablo Ruiz Picasso, best known simply as "Picasso", or the poet Federico García Lorca, often known simply as "Lorca", or even the Spanish prime minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, best known as "Zapatero".



At age 16, he heard the will of his socialist grandfather (paternal), an army colonel executed by a fascist firing squad in the Spanish Civil War. The will said: "I die innocent and I forgive."
In 1986, he became the youngest member of parliament in Spain. When the 39-year-old politician became the Socialist party's leader in 2000, he was derided in the Spanish media with the nickname "Bambi" — noting his idealism and wide-eyed innocence.

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Hephaestion
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posted 10 March 2006 11:42 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow... thanx for the lesson Wilf (seriously). But IF he meant it, I love him for this:

quote:
"I'm a radical feminist. In my experience, out of every four people in politics, if they are women, 3 are really good. If they are men, only one and a half to two. That's my experience. For public life and for democratic coexistence, I think being a woman is a great advantage. Because they know how to share things better than men do. And politics is all about knowing how to share."
]

Maybe we can eventually bring democracy to the "developed world"...

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Heavy Sharper
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posted 10 March 2006 07:25 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rifonazione comunista has always been big on civil libertarianism and cultural liberalism instead to standing for workers rights and against American imperialism.

They would get my vote in every Italian election unless they had no candidate where I was living...Then I'd have to decide more carefully.


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josh
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posted 10 March 2006 08:37 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

A month before Italy's hard- fought elections, prosecutors in Milan asked Friday that Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and a high-profile British lawyer be tried on charges of judicial corruption in a case that is also causing political turmoil in Britain.

The prosecutors released no details, but the case has been widely reported in the Italian media, and centers on whether Berlusconi ordered $600,000 to be paid in 1999 to the lawyer, David Mills, an expert on offshore corporate law, in exchange for providing false testimony on behalf of Berlusconi in two other cases involving fraud and corruption charges. A judge must now rule on the indictment requests.

. . . .

Mills has ties to the innermost circles of the Labour government. His wife, Tessa Jowell, is Britain's culture minister and one of Prime Minister Tony Blair's closest allies. In the last few weeks, the British newspapers have been dominated by articles about Mills's complicated business affairs, casting an increasingly dark shadow on his marriage with Jowell, who has said that she knew nothing about his financial activities.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/10/news/italy.php


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lagatta
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posted 10 March 2006 08:56 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
josh, you beat me too it. I'm thrilled, but wonder if it will really stick...

Oh well, here's the Guardian story on Mills and Berlusconi.


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meades
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posted 13 March 2006 01:46 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Surprise!

Berlusconi Calls for Reform of Judiciary


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Fidel
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posted 13 March 2006 03:33 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fascists out of Italy!

Viva la revolucion!


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Willowdale Wizard
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posted 13 March 2006 08:26 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
berlusconi storms out of RAI interview:

quote:
The media magnate refused to answer when state TV journalist Lucia Annunziata asked about his business affairs and the Iraq conflict.

"You can't tell me what to do," he said as the conversation descended into bickering and he accused her of bias.

"This is my show, I'll decide the questions," Ms Annunziata retorted.

As he left the studio, his microphone was still attached and he could be heard shouting: "And they say I'm the one who controls Rai!"



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robbie_dee
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posted 14 March 2006 03:21 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The prime minister faces his first TV debate with opposition leader Romano Prodi on Tuesday as the race hots up for the 9-10 April election and his coalition lags behind in opinion polls by several points.

I assume that debate is happening today, possibly right now?


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lagatta
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posted 14 March 2006 03:41 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Indeed it is on, here is La Repubblica's play-by-play Prodi vs Berlusconi in diretta il gran duello

Sorry, I really have to get some work done, so I can't give you a streaming translation...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 15 March 2006 01:16 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BBC: Italy leaders clash in TV debate

quote:
"You've been in government for five years and you speak as if you were the opposition. How can you carry out such a deception on the country?" Mr Prodi said.

He also attacked the prime minister on the issue of the alleged conflict of interest stemming from prime minister's media empire.

Mr Berlusconi fired back: " Really, what cheek! In five years we have carried out more reforms than all the previous governments in the history of the republic put together."


It's worth noting the Second Republic came into being in 1993.


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lagatta
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posted 15 March 2006 08:42 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More on this from the Guardian. Seems the tweedy economics prof Prodi (you know, pipe and sweater, though I don't think he smokes any more) has been coached to be more effective on TV. No surprise that Silvio made yet another sexist comment: Prodi - Berlusconi debate: seems Prodi won.
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lagatta
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posted 16 March 2006 08:00 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And once again in the Guardian, columnist Martin Jacques on New Labour's very odd affinity for Berlusconi, a direct descendant of Benito and a "toxic threat to democracy".
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Heavy Sharper
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posted 16 March 2006 06:08 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
;-) My new favourite Italians will certainly not be voting for Berlusconi: Elvenking's latest albums includes a genius cover of Penny Dreadful, one of the best songs from leftist folk-rockers Skyclad.

[ 16 March 2006: Message edited by: Heavy Sharper ]


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meades
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posted 19 March 2006 02:26 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm surprised the Guardian article didn't mention Berlusconi's involvement with the far-right, mafia-linked masonic lodge Propaganda Due, nor the latter's involvement with Gladio and the Strategy of Tension which carried out violent and terrorist activities throughout Italy in order to prevent Communists from taking power. The links are especially scary considering Berlusconi's tendency to label anyone who disagrees with him a communist.
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spiffy
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posted 19 March 2006 07:14 PM      Profile for spiffy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
there was an article in the province a few weeks ago about an ndp member in vancouver who is running for one of the "italians abroad" seats. his name is rocco di trolio and here is his web site: www.roccoditrolio.net
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Stockholm
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posted 25 March 2006 06:19 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bump
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lagatta
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posted 29 March 2006 02:21 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Our old fiend Berlusconi has done it again! Now he's said that the Chinese, under Mao, boiled babies. Moreover, he refuses to apologise.
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eau
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posted 29 March 2006 03:18 PM      Profile for eau        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Naturally he would leave the bit out about the church castrating children in the olden days in his fair land.

Berlusconi managed to corrupt the courts so that he would not face corruption charges while in office, I look forward to him stepping up to the plate, complete with his own balls, to face the charges like a man when he leaves office.


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lagatta
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posted 29 March 2006 03:29 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
eau, the gruesome practice of castrating little boys continued until the 19th century, and one actually made a recording. castrati, including a soundfile
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Hephaestion
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posted 30 March 2006 04:17 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Pope Benedict used a meeting with Italy's right of center party o Thursday to launch a new salvo against same-sex marriage and the left of center coalition that supports domestic partner law fired back accusing the pontiff of trying to influence next month's election. 

Benedict told members of Premier Silvio Berlusconi's European People's Party (EPP) that the Vatican would oppose "attempts to make [marriage] juridically equivalent to radically different forms of unions which in reality harm it and contribute to its destabilization."

The church's stand, he said, was "non-negotiable". 

The remarks, broadcast on Italian television, were seen as an endorsement of the EPP which has steadfastly refused to pass LGBT civil rights legislation.

Members of Romano Prodi opposition leftists pounced on the remarks.

"It is ever more clear the Church hierarchy have decided to jump in to the election campaign", said Daniele Capezzone a leftist coalition member.

"It is people who decide whether their relationships constitute a family ... Not everyone shares the Pope's point of view," said openly gay Franco Grillini, another leftist member.

Prodi's leftists are ahead in public opinion polls with just 10 days left in the campaign.


*click*

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Heavy Sharper
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posted 30 March 2006 05:56 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even if l'Unione manages to win this election, it's important to keep in mind that Prodi is not as socially liberal as Zapatero in Spain.
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obscurantist
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posted 30 March 2006 11:57 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Heavy Sharper:
Even if l'Unione manages to win this election, it's important to keep in mind that Prodi is not as socially liberal as Zapatero in Spain.
No it isn't.

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lagatta
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posted 03 April 2006 07:44 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vladimir Luxuria transgendered Rifondazione comunista candidate, was subjected to an agression (namecalling, homophobic and fascist banners, throwing vegetables - specifically fennel, as "finocchio" is a common homophobic term in Italian - death threats) by fascist thugs in Rome. Two were elected officials in the supposedly "post-fascist" Alleanza nazionale. Fortunately another Rifondazione candidate and people gathered to hear Luxuria came to the candidate's defence. Luxuria says mums with children were among the staunchest defenders, and also thanks the ragazzi (lads) in Rifondazione for keeping a cool head, as if not it would have turned into a terrible brawl. The police, of course, didn't show up until it was all over.

Luxuria added that the campaign was seen as a challenge as it was precisely a serious campaign on the issues and not a sideshow based only on feathers and paillettes, as the media tried to portray it.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 03 April 2006 12:20 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess BerlusCONi can kiss any chance at re-election good-bye.
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lagatta
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posted 03 April 2006 12:35 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, he can still count on the homophobic vote, but that was going to him anyway...
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Fidel
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posted 03 April 2006 01:25 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Italy's too beautiful a country for fascism. Fascists out of Italy!
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 05 April 2006 08:17 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looks like Berlusconi is getting desperate, promising an end to property tax and a bunch of goodies for seniors.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4881582.stm


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eau
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posted 06 April 2006 12:04 AM      Profile for eau        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wait patiently for the fight to restart between the Economist and Berlusconi. They trashed him mercilessly when the Judges were stifled. The only questions are how long until he is in a court room and can he maintain his influence.

He headed up P2 at one point..so we shall see if he goes back to business as usual


From: BC | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 06 April 2006 01:21 AM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looks like Berlusconi's getting a little frazzled:

Berlusconi calls rivals `idiots'

quote:
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi used an Italian obscenity to describe those planning to vote for his opponent, drawing criticism yesterday from opposition parties who called the leader "vulgar and coarse.''

"I have too much respect for the intelligence of Italians to believe that there are so many `coglioni' around to vote against their best interest," he said.

The word "coglioni" is a vulgar equivalent for "idiot" or "cretin." It is common in colloquial Italian but virtually unheard of in political speeches or business settings.

Antonio Di Pietro, a former anti-corruption prosecutor turned centre-left lawmaker, said: "Better coglioni than Berlusconi.''

Berlusconi, in office since 2001 and blamed by many for Italy's struggling economy, was trailing in opinion polls published until late last month, and performed poorly in the first televised faceoff. Berlusconi reiterated his accusation that Prodi is a front-man for a coalition led by Communists.


Smells like desperation. I wonder if he's already played the God card yet?


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 06 April 2006 09:45 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Coglioni literally means testicles so that gives you an idea of the "register" of the expression. (It is similar to the use of "couillon" in French - while the more common French word for testicles in a literal sense is "couilles"). It is a common expression, as is cazzo which means penis, but is used more often as a vulgarity than to describe the centrepiece of that set: "Che cazzo fa?" What the fuck are you doing?

As the article says, such mild obscenities are common in street Italian, but not in official public speech.

Hmm, the God card. Even though Italy is a Catholic country and the Church still exercises a lot of influence in many ways, despite a sharp drop in churchgoing and in the birthrate, references to God are not looked on positively in Italian politics. Italians have lived too close to the machinations of the Vatican, and even among pious people, a certain cynicism about the uses of religion is common.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 09 April 2006 02:55 AM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you think there'll be riots if the House of Freedoms is able to form a majority government while winning less of the popular vote than l'Unione?

If progressive Italians do not use full force to take down a right-wing government without a mandate, they deserve to live under right-wing repression.

[ 09 April 2006: Message edited by: Heavy Sharper ]


From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 09 April 2006 07:55 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This article in the business section of today's Observer gives a quick overview of Italy's poor economic performance during the Berlusconi years (poor, of course, in the terms of classical economics).

An innocent question: if, in classical economic terms, the fixes for Italy's problems of growth and uncompetitiveness would have been labour-market reform, why would a right-winger like Berlusconi not have tried to ram through some of the measures taken by, eg, the Germans? If he was, for a long time, powerful enough to fiddle with the laws and the courts, why did he not try to work his will on the economy?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Avans
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posted 09 April 2006 11:13 AM      Profile for Alan Avans   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Coglioni literally means testicles so that gives you an idea of the "register" of the expression. (It is similar to the use of "couillon" in French - while the more common French word for testicles in a literal sense is "couilles"). It is a common expression, as is cazzo which means penis, but is used more often as a vulgarity than to describe the centrepiece of that set: "Che cazzo fa?" What the fuck are you doing?

As the article says, such mild obscenities are common in street Italian, but not in official public speech.


"Dickhead" or "prick" might be good translations of coglioni.


From: Christian Democratic Union of USAmerica | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 09 April 2006 11:38 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is true, though testa di cazzo is also an Italian swear word.
quote:
testa di cazzo † Cockhead note Used to insult someone, without a really specific reason, just because you disagree with him/her

Quoting the "Alternative Italian Dictionary", one of a series of alternative online dictionaries to slang and vulgar language.

The more usual expression for talking about testicles in a literal sense is "palle" (balls). rompere le palle - to really get on someone's nerves...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 09 April 2006 02:36 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
This article in the business section of today's Observer gives a quick overview of Italy's poor economic performance during the Berlusconi years (poor, of course, in the terms of classical economics).

An innocent question: if, in classical economic terms, the fixes for Italy's problems of growth and uncompetitiveness would have been labour-market reform, why would a right-winger like Berlusconi not have tried to ram through some of the measures taken by, eg, the Germans? If he was, for a long time, powerful enough to fiddle with the laws and the courts, why did he not try to work his will on the economy?


Maybe he's trying to lull Italians into a false sense of security.

Chirac's gang has taken a long time to bite too...

As for my previous post, I'm referring to electoral reforms that make it theoretically possible for HoF to form a majority government while winning less of the popular vote than l'Unione. Unlike Bush's minority election, which was sanctioned by an electoral system that's over 2 centuries old, an HoF minority election would be sanctioned by reforms that the government has made over the past couple of years...And if Italians put up with that, I'm not sure if they deserve better.

[ 09 April 2006: Message edited by: Heavy Sharper ]


From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 10 April 2006 02:20 AM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
2/3 of voters have voted today...

Turnout extremely strong in North and around Rome...I think that's good for Berlusconi...:-(

[Long url removed by Michelle. Try tinyurl or babble's URL function.]

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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Hephaestion
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posted 10 April 2006 02:45 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
x
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 10 April 2006 11:51 AM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exit Polls show victory for Prodi's centre-left coalition! :-)

http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=19233


From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 10 April 2006 05:10 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Then again, maybe not.

quote:
The Nexus projections, carried on the state broadcaster Rai, gave Mr Berlusconi's forces 49.9% in the Chamber of Deputies (lower house), and Mr Prodi's bloc 49.6%.

For the Senate the projections gave Mr Berlusconi's bloc 158 seats and Mr Prodi's 151.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4894584.stm


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 10 April 2006 08:34 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's pathetic is the absurdly high number of Italians who support fascists, neo-fascists, the allegedly non-fascist far-right (Now that's a laugh...), and those like Berlusconi who are willing to work with them in government.

Some of these people are far worse than even Jorge Haider, and yet Italy faces no ostracisation for electing them and even welcoming them into the governing coalition.

Alleanza NAZIonale is "post-fascist" far-right. Its supporters consist entirely of the same sort of violent hooligans affiliated with the party who attacked Communist transvetite candidate Vladimir Luxuria. They won over 12% of the vote.

Lega Nord is a chauvinistic autonomous movement in Northern Italy espousing xenophobia and far-right policies. Many consider them more extreme than AN. They won over 4% of the vote.

Alternativa Sociale Mussolini is so disgusting that it doesn't even deserve explanation. People stupid enough to vote for hypocritical neo-Nazi prima donna whose main "contributions" to this world include bad pornography and bad pro-fascist films don't even deserve access to a ballot.

Fiamma Tricolore is the most explicity far-right of the lot and has won 226,192 votes too many.

These two parties won over 1% of the vote between them.

http://politiche.interno.it/politiche/camera060409/C0000000.htm

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Heavy Sharper ]


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skdadl
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posted 10 April 2006 10:03 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll bet Audra is chewing her nails to hear that Berlusconi may have survived to delay all his court cases another day.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 10 April 2006 10:20 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Something good did happen today, at least:

quote:
Romani Prodi has claimed victory for his centre-left coalition in the lower house, following Italy's election.
Mr Prodi made the claim during a rally in the capital Rome, telling cheering supporters that "victory has arrived".

From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 10 April 2006 10:24 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I voted for Audra.
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babblerwannabe
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posted 10 April 2006 10:31 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Something good did happen today, at least:


I hope its true.


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the bard
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posted 10 April 2006 10:33 PM      Profile for the bard     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Heavy Sharper:
What's pathetic is the absurdly high number of Italians who support fascists, neo-fascists, the allegedly non-fascist far-right (Now that's a laugh...), and those like Berlusconi who are willing to work with them in government.

What's pathetic is the absurdly high number of rabble's management (i.e. more than 1) that support (or at least offer apologetics for) crushing workers' rights.

Before you know it, Rabble management will become the Canadian equivalent of the Democratic Party Stalinists who run Pacifica.


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babblerwannabe
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posted 10 April 2006 11:06 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/italy

quote:
ROME - Final results in the two-day vote ending Monday showed Romano Prodi's center-left winning control in the lower house of parliament, with 49.8 percent of the vote compared to 49.7 won by Berlusconi's conservatives. The winning coalition is automatically awarded 55 percent of the seats, according to a new electoral law.

From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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posted 10 April 2006 11:08 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hahaha...Those reforms were an attempt by the right to rig the election and weaken any left-wing coalition that won...But they backfired on the bastards..hahaha

Who's the coglioni now, Silvio?

Why you and those corrupt managers, of course.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Heavy Sharper ]


From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
frandroid_atreides
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posted 11 April 2006 08:14 PM      Profile for frandroid_atreides   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
84% people voted... That's amazing turnout.
From: Toronto, Arrakis | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Drinkmore
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posted 11 April 2006 08:14 PM      Profile for Drinkmore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by frandroid_atreides:
84% people voted... That's amazing turnout.

Not as good as the turn out for Audra here.


From: the oyster to the eagle, from the swine to the tiger | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 12 April 2006 02:53 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What kind of centre-left coalition does Italy now have?

Ulivo (220 seats) is itself a federation of Massimo D'Alema's Left Democrats (ex-Euro-communists), the centre-left Margherita of Romano Prodi and Francesco Rutelli (which aims to combine the christian-democratic, the liberal-democratic and the european-reformist cultures, and Luciana Sbarbati's little left-liberal European Republican Movement (which split from the old little Republican Party when it joined Berlusconi's coalition).

Fausto Bertinotti's Communist Refoundation Party (41 seats), the furthest left group which includes some Troskyists

La Rosa Nel Pugno (The Rose In The Fist) (18 seats), itself a federation of the left-libertarian Radical Party of Emma Bonino, Enrico Boselli's Democratic Socialists, the Luca Coscioni Association (against prohibition of embryonic stem cells research), and the Socialist Youth.

Comunisti Italiani (16 seats), Eurocommunists who split from the Communist Refoundation Party when it took a stand against the previous Prodi government, led by Oliviero Diliberto.

Italy of Values (16 seats), populist and anti-corruption, headed by former magistrate Antonio Di Pietro

Greens (15 seats)led by Pecoraro Scanio, Italy's first openly bisexual minister.

Clemente Mastella's Popular-UDEUR (10 seats), centrist. He was in Berlusconi's first cabinet but split with him.

The South Tyrol People's Party (4 seats), an ethnic German minority party.

I can't find an article in English speculating on the tensions and prospects within this diverse coalition.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Drinkmore
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posted 12 April 2006 03:04 AM      Profile for Drinkmore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
I'll bet Audra is chewing her nails to hear that Berlusconi may have survived to delay all his court cases another day.

Oh, no not her nails.


From: the oyster to the eagle, from the swine to the tiger | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 12 April 2006 03:29 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gino Bucchino, a 58-year-old Toronto physician, won one of the two Chamber of Deputies seats allotted to the North and Central America district. "Now we have a voice in Italy's parliament," said Bucchino, also a candidate of the centre-left coalition.

Four years ago Bucchino went to Uganda:

quote:
Dr. Gino Bucchino, a member of our community very well known both in and outside of it, is leaving for Angal, Uganda, with his wife Marisa, a physician like him, and their children Filippo and Carolina, in order to serve as volunteers in that village's rural hospital.

Why go Dr. Bucchino?

"Because I want to be a certain kind of physician."

"Unfortunately, our community did not grow much on the political and cultural level. . . our people often arrived here with nothing, had to work hard to survive, and when they succeeded they were catapulted in the hyperconsumeristic system of the United States. They had neither time nor will to think that beyond money there are other values. Gianni Carparelli told you in his interview that they had no possibility to read, reflect, discuss. I concur. If you throw in the dangerous proximity with the U.S., the picture is complete."

You are really mad at the U.S. You're still a Marxist to the core.

"This is not the problem. Fact is, false democracies frighten me. Do you call democracy what goes on beyond Niagara Falls, where, just as a matter of example, a man can't rely on a good sanitary assistance unless he has a healthy bank account? Luckily, Canada is not like that, but the proximity is dangerous."

"One of the most evident effects of the abandonment is the way Woodbridge roads are designed, seemingly in order to avoid buses entering them. Because a bus means misery, in the opinion of many in our community. Richness, on the contrary, means three or four cars per family."


[ 12 April 2006: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Drinkmore
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posted 12 April 2006 03:45 AM      Profile for Drinkmore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gee, sounds awful close - wonder if they'll be able to get any progressive labour laws passed.
From: the oyster to the eagle, from the swine to the tiger | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 12 April 2006 11:01 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Drinkmore:
Gee, sounds awful close.

No, thanks to another example of blowback. Berlusconi fudged their proportional representation system by deliberately giving the winning coalition a "winner's bonus." Despite the narrow victory, Prodi has a majority of 67 seats. His centrist allies -- Clemente Mastella's Popular-UDEUR (10 seats) -- and another smaller party could walk out, and still leave him with a majority.

[ 18 April 2006: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
mamitalinda
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posted 12 April 2006 02:32 PM      Profile for mamitalinda   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
STRIKE!
From: Babblers On Strike! | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 12 April 2006 02:52 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An even better example of blowback is that Berlusconi gave "Italians Around the World" seats in parliament, expecting to win most of them, and the left's victory margin in the Senate comes from a Chicago leftist defeated in the USA but elected by residents of Canada.
From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
BCseawalker
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posted 12 April 2006 04:24 PM      Profile for BCseawalker        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Berlusconi fudged their proportional representation system by deliberately giving the winning coalition a "winner's bonus." An even better example of blowback is that Berlusconi gave "Italians Around the World" seats in parliament, expecting to win most of them.

Both good arguments for politicians NOT making the final decision on electoral reform, or for having the power to shape its direction.


From: Unspecified | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass2
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posted 13 April 2006 06:03 PM      Profile for Critical Mass2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bump
From: AKA Critical Mass or Critical Mass3 - Undecided in Ottawa/Montreal | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
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posted 18 April 2006 09:16 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Italy's cashmere communist:
quote:
Many moderates in the centre-left are concerned Bertinotti could hold Prodi to ransom unless he gets his way.

He was responsible for sinking Prodi's first government when, in 1998, he turned against him in a confidence vote due to disagreements over labour policy.

Prodi's fall eventually led to Berlusconi's 2001 landslide victory and five years in power -- something for which many on the left have still not forgiven Bertinotti.

He has promised he will not sink Prodi a second time, saying his party today is fully signed up to the coalition and its manifesto, rather than merely lending parliamentary support from outside the government as it did in the late 1990s.

Bertinotti has taken a left-wing but hardly extreme stance, calling for lower tax on labour and higher taxes on capital gains -- a policy broadly adopted by Prodi's "Union" coalition.

"There's nothing wrong with being rich, as long as you pay taxes," he has said.



On Wednesday, the executive committee of Fausto Bertinotti's Rifondazione Comunista held a fractious session:
quote:
. . an assembly-line-and-railroad-worker faction sometimes described as Trotskyite threatened to wrench its 11 of Refondazione's 41 winning deputies in parliament out of Rifondazione, should the party back Romano Prodi for premier. Said a faction spokesperson: "This [backing the centrist Prodi] would signal the end of Rifondazione's position at the heart of opposition to the politics of the padroni" (bosses)

. . the Rifondazione's left-wing Pane e Rose (Bread and Roses) faction, led by Marco Ferrando and Francesco Ricci, had already complained that, whereas "everyone is asking if we are trustworthy for Prodi, we want to know if we can trust him." Bertinotti, they charged, is selling the party out to the "sirens of capitalism," with the result that young voters preferred the Party of the Democratic Left (PDS), led by Massimo D'Alema, the party built on the old PCI (Italian Communist Party) which is the second-largest in the Prodi-led center-left coalition. Rifondazione has become "a party of divisive politics that builds false illusions in the working class," said a Pane e Rose editorial yesterday. Losing eleven deputies in parliament is unikely to block either Bertinotti's move into the power circle or the formation of a Prodi government.



That's because Prodi's coalition has a 67-seat majority (see above.)

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass2
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posted 19 April 2006 03:34 PM      Profile for Critical Mass2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Courts Declare Prodi official winner
From: AKA Critical Mass or Critical Mass3 - Undecided in Ottawa/Montreal | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 20 April 2006 05:41 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Prodi meets allies over forming government:
quote:
Prodi pressed on with forming a government, holding more than an hour of discussions with Piero Fassino, leader of the Democrats of the Left, the biggest party in a disparate coalition which stretches from moderate Catholics to liberals and Communists.

Fassino made no comment to journalists after exiting Prodi’s central-Rome headquarters, before the 66-year-old former EU Commission president went into discussions with Francesco Rutelli of the centrist Margherita party.

On Monday, the centre-left leader held two hours of talks with Fausto Bertinotti, leader of the Refoundation Communists, one of two communist parties in the coalition.



From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Socrates
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posted 20 April 2006 06:23 AM      Profile for Socrates   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To be honest I haven't even read this thread. Also this is a pretty lame post after a year (or more)'s absence from Babble (my bad)

Just wanted to give a shout out to CM2 for posting a french linked story.

love ya all!


From: Viva Sandinismo! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
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posted 29 April 2006 11:52 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Prodi's candidate elected Senate speaker by nine votes:
quote:
Mr Prodi has a majority of only two seats in a chamber of more than 300 senators.

Mr Marini defeated outgoing Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's nominee, 87-year-old Giulio Andreotti, by just nine votes.


Good start. I guess that means that Marina got the votes of all of the seven "senators for life."

But herding this coalition may be like herding cats. In the first round of voting for Speaker of the lower house, Bertinotti got only 305 votes:

quote:
There were 220 blank ballots in the first round of voting for the speaker of the Chamber and 18 nullified ballots, but the majority voted for the leader of the PRC, who got 305. Voting in the hall of Parliament were 594 representatives, 13 of whom indicated Massimo D'Alema and 12 Francesco Cossiga, but there were even votes for the outgoing Pierferdinando Casini and the new representatives Vladimir Luxuria and Carfagna. According to the regulations in force it is necessary to have a two-thirds majority of the votes in the first three votes in order to be elected speaker. In the fourth round there only needs to be a majority of those present.

In the second round he even lost three votes:
quote:
Fausto Bertinotti, the centre-left's official candidate, mustered only 305 and 302 votes respectively in the first two ballots – too few to win – in spite of the fact that Mr Prodi's forces control 348 seats in the 630-seat lower house.

The clear implication of the votes was that several dozen centre-left legislators could not bring themselves to vote for their own candidate.

Mr Bertinotti is the leader of Communist Refoundation, a hardline Marxist party that is often at odds with the centrist and democratic socialist elements of Mr Prodi's bloc.



But I guess that was all in good fun, since the election was bound to go to the fourth round.
Fausto Bertinotti was elected Italy's new lower house speaker during the fourth round of voting with 337 votes against the absolute majority required of 304.
Clemente Mastella's centrist Popular-UDEUR (10 seats) has decided to offer external support only:
quote:
the UDEUR would only act as an external ally. "We have decided to remain outside the government. We will support it... and I will be loyal but there will be no betrayal of our (Catholic) values."

Mastella emerged discontented from talks on Thursday with Prodi reportedly focusing on the Senate speakership or two ministries for the UDEUR. "Prodi has not understood the extra value of the UDEUR, the importance of the political centre and the role of moderates."



Bertinotti got 337 votes while Prodi's coalition has 348 seats. Hmm. Mastella's ten votes may have externalized out of sight. That doesn't matter in the lower house, but in the Senate he has a crucial three seats. A good example of the dangers of an elected and equal upper house?

[ 29 April 2006: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
island empire
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posted 29 April 2006 02:52 PM      Profile for island empire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
looks like berlusconi's backtracking a little today... strange, considering that just yesterday, he was vowing never to leave and betray italians' trust.

and he's still at it - why can't this guy deal with the fact that the left won?


From: montréal, canada | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 29 April 2006 04:23 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by island empire:
why can't this guy deal with the fact that the left won?

Apparently he still had a faint hope that a Senate deadlock would force a grand coalition, and I wonder if Mastella wasn't quietly encouraging him to keep hoping? But apparently the seven life senators preferred a stable centre-left coalition, Communists and all, to the faint hope of a centrist grand coalition.

So Prodi gets a clear victory thanks to Berlusconi's skewed "winner's-bonus-PR" model, and cements it thanks to life senators. Only in Italy?

[ 29 April 2006: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
island empire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8064

posted 29 April 2006 05:00 PM      Profile for island empire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
only in italy indeed. berlusconi's three major reforms all hurt him far more than he could have imagined. hilarious.
From: montréal, canada | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Heavy Sharper
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Babbler # 11809

posted 30 April 2006 08:40 PM      Profile for Heavy Sharper        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Leave it to Nazinger's allies to try screwing the left over.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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Babbler # 44

posted 02 May 2006 09:34 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
About freaking time, loser!

Berlusconi resigns as PM


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Radical Progressive
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Babbler # 12367

posted 02 May 2006 12:56 PM      Profile for Radical Progressive        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sounds a bit like the Gore situation, doesn't it? Simply refuse to admit you've lost.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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Babbler # 1275

posted 02 May 2006 01:04 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sounds a bit more like you're trolling. Shouldn't you get lost?
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Radical Progressive
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12367

posted 02 May 2006 02:21 PM      Profile for Radical Progressive        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
Sounds a bit more like you're trolling...

Not really. Just wanted to point out that klinging to power (or reaching for power) is not too uncommon, regardless of political conviction.


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 02 May 2006 06:12 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, the situations in Italy 2006 and the U.S. election are exactly the same, except that:

1)Gore indisputably WON the popular vote. There was never any possibility that Berlosconi could say the same.

2)There was a massively organized effort in Florida to illegitimately drive thousands of African American voters off of the voting rolls, and nothing remotely similar was done to conservative voters in Italy(and could not, in fact, possibly have been done, since conservatives were in power in Italy and were in charge of counting the votes).

3)There was nothing comparable in the Italian situation to the U.S. Supreme Court, most of whom were appointed by Republican presidents, awarding the electoral votes of Florida to the Republican candidate.

Time for you to say "Oh, never mind, I was a complete idiot to compare the two situations" Mr "Radical Progressive"(and btw, may I congratulate you on the most Orwellian use of those two words in the history of the English language?).

[ 02 May 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 12 May 2006 12:20 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Giorgio Napolitano, Italy's first former communist to be elected president . . was put forward by incoming Prime Minister Romano Prodi as a compromise candidate after the centre right had rejected Prodi's first choice, former Prime Minister Massimo D'Alema. As an elder statesman and life senator, the soft spoken Napolitano was seen as less divisive than D'Alema even though they are both from the Democrats of the Left (DS), the heir of what was once the largest communist party in the West.

Prodi works on cabinet:

quote:
Napolitano was elected . . on the votes of the centre left alone. It was a key victory for Prodi. Not only did it mean he could finally take office but it also showed his unwieldly and potentially fractious nine-party coalition could pull together when needed.

The coalition ranges from Communists and anti-clericalists to staunch Catholics, making unity as difficult as it is crucial given Prodi's slim majority. The job of forming a coalition government, difficult at the best of times, is even tougher for Prodi with nine essential allies vying for posts and visibility and all demanding to be contented.

Prodi stressed on Wednesday that he was anxious to have former premier and Democratic Left (DS) chairman Massimo D'Alema on board. . . the press has speculated that the 57-year-old former Communist will be made foreign minister as well as deputy premier.

Meanwhile, the centrist, Catholic-oriented Daisy party - the second biggest party after the DS - is also angling for five or six ministries in the new government. According to the media, Daisy leader and former Rome mayor Francesco Rutelli, who was defeated by Berlusconi in the 2001 election, is likely to be offered the culture ministry and the job of deputy premier along with D'Alema.

Prodi is expected to have a harder task in appeasing his smaller allies, with the media already predicting a battle between centrist, Catholic UDEUR chief Clemente Mastella and top Radical Emma Bonino for the post of defence minister.

There was already an exchange of crossfire earlier this month when Bonino, a former European commissioner for human rights, said she was better qualified for the job than Mastella, who was still bristling at being passed over for the Senate speakership. Meanwhile, the PRC's new chief Franco Giordano, who has taken over from Bertinotti, emerged from talks with Prodi on Thursday to say that things were "looking good" for his hard-left party in the new cabinet.

The PRC, which brought down Prodi's first, 1996-98 government, holds positions that conflict with other coalition parties on several issues including economic and labour market reform and foreign policy.

But Prodi is hoping his allies' undersigning of the alliance's 280-page election programme will limit infighting and has promised a strong leadership legitimised by his landslide victory in unprecedented primary-style elections last October.



So Mastella's "external support" was a ploy for a shot at defence minister?

I see here that:

quote:
On May 7 during a PRC National Political Committee meeting and after Fausto Bertinotti's resignation, Franco Giordano, former chairman of the PRC parliamentary group at the lower chamber (until 2006), has been elected as new PRC national secretary with 68.81% of the vote.

[ 12 May 2006: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 19 May 2006 02:26 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is the breakdown of Prodi's cabinet:

Democrats of the Left (DS) 9:
- Foreign Affairs, Deputy Prime Minister: Massimo D'Alema
- Health: Livia Turco
- Industry: Pierluigi Bersani
- Universities, scientific research: Fabio Mussi
- Labour: Cesare Damiano
- Civil Service: Luigi Nicolais
- Sports: Giovanna Melandri
- Equal Opportunities: Barbara Pollastrini
- Relations with Parliament and Institutional Reforms: Vannino Chiti

Margherita 9:
- Culture, Deputy Prime Minister: Francesco Rutelli
- Defense: Arturo Parisi
- Interior: Giuliano Amato
- Education: Giuseppe Fioroni
- Agriculture: Paolo De Castro
- Communications: Paolo Gentiloni
- Regional: Linda Lanzillotta
- Government Programme: Giulio Santagata
- Family Policy: Rosy Bindi

Ulivo (220 seats) is itself a federation of Massimo D'Alema's Left Democrats (ex-Euro-communists), the centre-left Margherita of Romano Prodi and Francesco Rutelli (which aims to combine the christian-democratic, the liberal-democratic and the european-reformist cultures, and Luciana Sbarbati's little left-liberal European Republican Movement (which split from the old little Republican Party when it joined Berlusconi's coalition).

Refoundation Communist Party (PRC) 1:
- Welfare: Paolo Ferrero
Fausto Bertinotti's Communist Refoundation Party (41 seats) is the furthest left group. Bertinotti is Speaker of the lower house.

Rose in the Fist 1:
- European Affairs and Foreign Trade: Emma Bonino
La Rosa Nel Pugno (The Rose In The Fist) (18 seats), itself a federation of the left-libertarian Radical Party of Emma Bonino, Enrico Boselli's Democratic Socialists, the Luca Coscioni Association (against prohibition of embryonic stem cells research), and the Socialist Youth.

Italy of Values 1:
- Infrastructure: Antonio Di Pietro
Italy of Values (16 seats), populist and anti-corruption, headed by former magistrate Antonio Di Pietro

Comunisti Italiani 1:
- Transport: Alessandro Bianchi
Comunisti Italiani (16 seats), Eurocommunists who split from the Communist Refoundation Party when it took a stand against the previous Prodi government, led by Oliviero Diliberto.

Greens 1:
- Environment: Alfonso Pecoraro Scanio
Greens (15 seats) led by Pecoraro Scanio, Italy's first openly bisexual minister.

Udeur 1:
Justice: Clemente Mastella
Clemente Mastella's Popular-UDEUR (10 seats), centrist. He was in Berlusconi's first cabinet but split with him.

South Tyrol People's Party 0:
The South Tyrol People's Party (4 seats), an ethnic German minority party.

no party affiliation 1:
- Economy and Finance: Tomasso Padoa-Schioppa

Then there are the stacks of vice-ministers and under-secretaries, including a group of five women and two men from the Communist Refoundation Party.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged

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