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Author Topic: labour party?
Babbler # 1675

posted 04 March 2004 08:32 PM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
after prop-rep becomes reality, should organized labour form its own party, freeing the NDP to pursue a social agenda? A few of us labor activist types have been kicking it around and its getting a lot of interest.
From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 2777

posted 05 March 2004 07:56 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This issue pops up from time to time, but I think right now its a pretty dead issue.

I think the labour movement has a tremendous amount of confidence in the direction that Jack Layton is taking the federal NDP. I for one am quite happy with what he's doing.

From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 3278

posted 05 March 2004 08:39 PM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not sure about a labour party because wouldn't that be another social democratic type party? But other types of socialist parties to the left could be feasible although the base for a socialist party is undoubtedly quite tiny right now.
From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
Babbler # 3276

posted 05 March 2004 10:30 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A separate labour party would be quite feasible under PR, but is unlikely to be necessary.

In Europe, those who are unhappy with mainstream labour have usually been the ones to leave and form their own left-socialist party. These used to be of dubious viability when they were competing with the Communists, but since the collapse of communism the democratic communist remnants have mostly merged with the left-socialists to create some quite viable parties. This leaves the main labour movement at the centre of the mainstream social-democratic party, as it should be.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 1675

posted 05 March 2004 10:37 PM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess the discussion begs the question, what does the political landscape look like under a PR regime. Coalitions of smaller special interest groups advocating specific agendas, or large amalgamations trying to be all things to all people?
i don't think I've seen any real solid analysis on where PR takes us.

From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
Babbler # 3276

posted 06 March 2004 10:41 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Originally posted by redshift:
. . what does the political landscape look like under a PR regime?

Excellent question. Here are the landscapes in the European Union countries that use PR, showing the number of seats held by each party.

Nine Centre-Left Governments:

Party of Democratic Socialism 2
Green Party 55
Social Democratic Party 251
Free Democratic Party (liberal) 47
Christian Democratic Union (CDU-CSU conservatives) 248
Government: Social Democrats plus Greens

Left Democratic Alliance 216
Polish Peasant Party 42
Self-Defense (radical farmers) 53
Civic Platform (liberal conservative) 65
League of Polish Families (catholic-fundamentalist) 38
Law and Justice (right-wing nationalist) 44
German Minority of Lower Silesia 2
Government: Left Democratic Alliance + Polish Peasant Party

Greece (before tomorrow's election)
Communist Party 11
Coalition of the Left and Progress 6
Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) 158
New Democracy (conservative) 125
Government: PASOK

Belgium (Note: being bi-national, it has twice the normal number of parties: French-speaking Walloon and Flemish-speaking wings of each)
Greens - Walloon (Ecolo) 4
Socialist Party - Walloon 25
Flemish Socialist Party - Spirit 23
Liberal Party - Flemish 25
Movement for Reform (Walloon Liberals) 24
Christian Democratic and Flemish 21
Humanist Democratic Centre (French Christian Democrats) 8
Vlaams Blok (right-wing Flemish nationalist) 18
National Front (right-wing French) 1
New Flemish Alliance 1
Government: Socialist - Liberal coalition

Czech Republic
Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia 41
Czech Social Democratic Party 70
Coalition (centre-right: Christian Democratic Union, People's party, Freedom Union, Democratic Union) 31
Civic Democratic Party (conservative) 58
Government: Social Democrats plus Coalition

Hungarian Socialist Party 179
Alliance of Free Democrats (liberal) 19
League of Young Democrats - Hungarian Civic Party (centre-right) 188
Government: Socialist - Free Democrat coalition

Left Party 30
Green Party 17
Social Democratic Party 144
Centre Party 22
Liberal Party 48
Moderate Party (conservative) 55
Christian Democratic Party 33
Government: Social Democrats (with support of Left and Greens, except on EU issues)

Left-Wing Alliance 19
Greens 14
Social Democratic Party 53
Swedish People's Party (ethnic minority) 8
Center Party 55
National Coalition Party (moderate conservative) 40
Christian Democrats 7
True Finns 3
Others 1
Government: Center Party + Social Democrats + Swedish People's Party

United List of Social Democrats (ZLSD, left) 11
Liberal Democrats (centre-left) 34
Democratic Party of Pensioners 4
People's Party + Christian Democrats (SLS) 9
Representatives of ethnic minorities 2
Social Democratic Party of Slovenia (centre-right) 14
Party of the Slovene Youth (liberal) 4
New Slovenia - Christian People's (centre-right) 8
Slovene National Party (nationalist) 4
Government: Liberal Democrats/Social Democrats ZLSD/ SLS /Pensioners

One all-party government

Labour Party (far left) 2
Green Party 13
Other left 2
Socialist Party 52
Liberal Party 4
Radical-Democratic Party (liberal) 36
Christian-Democratic People's Party 28
Evangelical People's Party (Christian Democratic) 3
Swiss People's Party (populist conservative) 55
Federal Democratic Union (Christian conservative) 2
Other right 2
Government: socialist-liberal-Christian Democratic- populist conservative

Eleven Centre-right governments

Refounded Communists 11
Olive Tree alliance 242 (Democrats of the Left, Party of Italian Communists, and other groups)
South Tyrolese People's Party (Olive Tree - German-speaking) 8
Freedom alliance 366 (conservative: Forza Italiana, National Alliance, Northern League)
Others 1
Government: Freedom Alliance

United Left 8
Spanish Socialist Workers' Party 125
People's Party (conservative) 183
Convergence and Union (Catalan Nationalist) 15
Canarian Coalition 4
Basque Nationalist Party 7
Galician Nationalist Party 3
Others 5
Government: People's Party

Green Left 8
Socialist Party 9
Labour Party 42
Democrats 66 (centrist) 6
Liberal Party 28
Christian Democrats 44
Pim Fortuyn List 8
Christian Union 3
State Reform Party 2
Government: Christian Democrats + Liberals + Democrats 66

United Democratic Coalition (communist) 10
Left Bloc 3
Socialist Party 96
Others 2
Social Democratic Party (centre-right) 105
People's Party (conservative) 14
Government: Social Democratic Party + People's Party

Greens 16
Social Democratic Party 69
People's Party (moderate conservative) 79
Freedom Party (nationalist) 19
Government: People's Party and Freedom Party

Unity List (Red-Green) 4
Socialist People's Party 12
Social Democratic Party 52
Radical Liberal Party (left-liberal) 9
Liberal Party (right-wing Venstre) 56
Conservative People's Party 16
Christian People's Party 4
Danish People's Party (nationalist) 22
Government: Right-wing Liberals and Conservative People's

Slovak Communist Party (unreformed) 11
SMER (social democratic) 25
Alliance for New Citizens (liberal) 15
Hungarian Coalition Party (ethnic minority) 20
Slovak Democratic and Christian Union (Christian Democratic) 28
Christian Democratic Movement 15
Movement for a Democratic Slovakia (nationalist) 36
Government (centre-right): Slovak Democratic and Christian Union, Hungarian Coalition, Christian Democratic Movement, and Alliance of New Citizens

Socialist Left Party 23
Labour Party 43
Centre Party 10
Coast Party 1
Independents 1
Liberal Party 2
Christian People's Party 22
Conservative Party 38
Progress Party 25
Government: Conservatives + Christian People's + Liberal (with support from Progress Party)

Socialist Party 1
Green Party 6
Sinn Fein 5
Labour Party 21
Others (independents) 13
Fine Gael (moderate conservatives) 31
Progressive Democrats (right-wing liberals) 8
Fianna Fail (nationalist conservatives) 80
Government: Fianna Fail and Progressive Democrats

For Civil Rights (left) 25
Union of Greens and Farmers 12
Latvia First Party (Christian Democrat) 10
New Era (centre-right) 26
Conservative Union for Fatherland and Freedom (nationalist) 7
People's Party (conservative) 20
Government: New Era, Union of Greens and Farmers, Latvia First, and Fatherland and Freedom

Center Party (centre-left liberal) 28
Moderates' Party (centrist social democrat) 6
Pro Patria Union (centre-right christian democrat) 7
People's Union (agrarian) 13
Reform Party (conservative liberal) 19
Res Publica (conservative) 28
Government: Res Publica + Reform Party + People's Union

[ 06 March 2004: Message edited by: Wilfred Day ]

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 1675

posted 06 March 2004 11:41 PM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
and what of the formative dictates of war and death at catastrophic levels, and Canada's relative lack of that foundation?
and what about geography? does size set a boundary ? or resources?
what about the social impact?

From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 2743

posted 06 March 2004 11:43 PM      Profile for ReeferMadness     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow, European politics looks much more interesting than what we have. I can hardly wait for PR.

And yes, I think labour should split off and have its own party.

From: Way out there | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged

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