babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » lawyers, doctors lose status to "creatives"

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: lawyers, doctors lose status to "creatives"
Geneva
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3808

posted 08 January 2008 07:55 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
blame it on Jobs, Amazon, Google, Myspace;

top of the professional pecking order not what it used to be:
http://tinyurl.com/37bf6p

“The older professions are great, they’re wonderful,” said Richard Florida, the author of “The Rise of the Creative Class: And How It’s Transforming Work, Leisure, Community and Everyday Life” (Basic Books, 2003). “But they’ve lost their allure, their status. And it isn’t about money.”

Or at least, it is not all about money. The pay is still good (sometimes very good), and the in-laws aren’t exactly complaining. Still, something is missing, say many doctors, lawyers and career experts: the old sense of purpose, of respect, of living at the center of American society and embodying its definition of “success.”

In a culture that prizes risk and outsize reward — where professional heroes are college dropouts with billion-dollar Web sites — some doctors and lawyers feel they have slipped a notch in social status, drifting toward the safe-and-staid realm of dentists and accountants. It’s not just because the professions have changed, but also because the standards of what makes a prestigious career have changed.

This decline, Mr. Florida argued, is rooted in a broader shift in definitions of success, essentially, a realignment of the pillars. Especially among young people, professional status is now inextricably linked to ideas of flexibility and creativity, concepts alien to seemingly everyone but art students even a generation ago.

[ 08 January 2008: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14858

posted 08 January 2008 08:01 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
oh my heart bleeds
From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 08 January 2008 08:04 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
but it’s going to pay off in status. You’re going to be famous, providing something people are going to know and use all over the world.”

That could said about deodorant. Don't get me wrong, there is some value to what Richard Florida is saying, but I think he hypes it beyond proportion. For example, what percentage of declining enrolment in law and medical schools is related to simple economics (income vs. tuition)?

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 08 January 2008 08:44 AM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sounds like a lot of sweeping generalizations.

Also, the status of doctors has become more realistic in terms of what other people in health care contribute. My mother, a retired nurse, remembers forty years ago, when the doctor walked into the unit, the nurse sitting nearest him would automatically jump to her feet and offer him her chair. And if you questioned a doctor's judgement, he'd fly into a rage.

Go forward to last Saturday, when I caught two medication errors made by the doctor in the clinic next door. At the end of his shift, he came into the pharmacy and gave me a hug, thanking me for preventing him from getting his "ass sued off."

Thank God doctors don't think they're God anymore.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 08 January 2008 08:59 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It really has nothing to do with Richard Florida, as he can't be responsible for how others interpret and seek to exploit his theories, but one thing I find somewhat amusing is the way some municipalities are attempting to become "creative cities" just by announcing it. Suddenly even Mississauga is a "creative city".
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
KenS
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1174

posted 08 January 2008 09:05 AM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Halifax is having some success attracting businesses and individuals on quality of life basis. Having a highly educated population with under average opportunities helps too.

? That would be the substance rather than the inflationary rhetoric of "creative city" ?


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 08 January 2008 09:58 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is not just "quality of life" as that can be defined by different people differently. Rather much of it is what Florida calls the bohemian factor (and I know Halifax has a bohemian factor).

But by way of explanation, a middle-class conservative insurance adjuster might define quality of life as a two door garage at the end of a cul-de-sac of homes that can only be differentiated by numbers within a sea of homes in a huge subdivision sitting on what once was a forest and within short driving distance (because who walks?) to the Superstore, Winners, and Boston Pizza.

But a creative personality, a bohemian, might prefer a busy downtown with coffee shops serving fair trade organic into the wee hours and being served by a tattooed, pierced from head-to-toe punker who heads off to a gig at the afterhours club when the cafe closes.

One of the important aspects of being a creative city, in my opinion, is being able to offer an environment where creative types can get together in both informal and formal settings and feed off each other's energy and ideas.

That just can't happen in a place that is more suburban blight than city.

There are all these cities all over the place that want the benefits of a gritty, happening downtown but without actually having the downtown. They have poured their resources and planning into creating antiseptic, sterile collections of subdivisions and then can't figure out why it is they can't attract and keep the 20 and 30 somethings who possess creativity, energy, and are seeking like minded individuals to work and play among.

I have been to Ontario cities and towns without a single independent, non-corporate coffee shop. Without independent book stores and without those edgy, on the margins art galleries.

Believe it or not, there are university towns in Ontario cities that do not have student villages where the university meets the city and ideas give way to risk taking and small businesses. They regard the students as a problem to be managed rather than a resource to be embraced. And they want to be "creative cities"!

Give me a break.

[ 08 January 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14858

posted 08 January 2008 10:14 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ahhh I live in such a place, seconds if only minutes from Georgian Bay, my friends cafe/bookstore (from which she also publishes 10+ books a year) as my second home, was at the local theater last night to see one of our two high school's annual musical.

I live close enough to the downtown that weaving my way home from the Celtic Festival, is perfectly do'able, having been greatly hosted by my friends who also own the local brewery, yet far enough away that the regualar Friday/Saturday night rabble rousers make no impact.

The folk festival on the other hand can be enjoyed from the back deck, along with the Canada Day fireworks, the 50's music of the car show and the laugher of children playing in a park.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 08 January 2008 10:18 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some small rural communities are far more urban than some of the much larger cities.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
farnival
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6452

posted 08 January 2008 10:26 AM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

It is not just "quality of life" as that can be defined by different people differently. Rather much of it is what Florida calls the bohemian factor (and I know Halifax has a bohemian factor)...


us prairie folks have been enjoying the Bohemian factor for some time now, and as of the past few years, thanks to Lakeport starting a budget beer war, now i live in Toronto, i can enjoy that bohemian feeling in the big city too!


From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 08 January 2008 10:30 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is it union made?
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
farnival
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6452

posted 08 January 2008 11:12 AM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
yes, it is! it's a molson product and says "union made" right on the label last time i checked. and delicious too!

kidding aside, i read the linked article and all i can say is "boo fuckin' hoo". i find it hard to be sympathetic towards obviously arrogant and classist people who, despite the references to "higher callings" are clearly whining that thier once percieved as god-like professions are actually just jobs. welcome to capitalism you elitist pricks.

i remember in winnipeg, going up to the umpteeth floor of the Trizac Building in 1992, to a bargaining session for first contract in my pre-press shop (print industry), a trade job i was doing an apprenticeship in, not to mention apprenticing as a shop steward as well, and i was wearing a plaid flannel shirt tucked in and plain workpants (new even!) and winter boots (it was winter!!!) and there were all these junior suits yapping away about how much money they were going to make this year. they were lawyers, about the same age as me (then 22) and were clearly boasting about making.....gasp!....30-35. yup, that meant thousands. which in the Peg in '92 is pretty good for a young single person. the thing that struck me was the obvious disdain they had for me (the whole elevator was mirrored. i could see them checking me out), and the conspicuous way they were talking salaries for our benefit. the joke though was i made the same amount roughly. even more with overtime! i smiled a knowing smile with my journeyman (in a tacky blazer) and union prez (in a nice suit) who knew exactly what i was thinking.

boo hoo pseudo gods. you are workers just like everyone else. most folks don't walk around like their shit doesn't stink because of thier job title. perhaps if doctors and lawyers hadn't spent years lording thier status over thier patients, clients, and "underlings" they would be more respected.


From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 08 January 2008 11:19 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I sense your holding back. What do you really think, farnival?
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
farnival
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6452

posted 08 January 2008 12:05 PM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
haha. wait, my gloves are still on!
From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798

posted 08 January 2008 05:53 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Plastic surgeons are very creative. look at the nice work they did on this guy.


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Lord Palmerston
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4901

posted 08 January 2008 06:02 PM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did anyone catch Mark Kingwell's critique of the likes of Florida in the Walrus?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9443

posted 08 January 2008 06:31 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:

Yet far enough away that the regualar Friday/Saturday night rabble rousers make no impact.

Francesca

I have been and currently are one of those rabble rousers.

However when I am rousing, I tear up the whole town and most of the county.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2732

posted 09 January 2008 10:56 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Time to recite am old joke:

What is the difference between a doctor and god?

God doesn't think she is a doctor.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 09 January 2008 11:01 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking of God and doctors, the CBC has been running the program called 'Where is God?'. Putting aside the obvious, dead and buried, today they are looking at God and medicine. The segment I heard was really a promo piece for the episode this evening, but nevertheless they spoke to a doctor who said he can't account for his success with science (I assumed he left patients for dead and they recovered) and cited a study showing that people who have faith live longer. What provided the control group? Shady Manor for Atheist Bastards Rest Homes, Inc.?
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca