Author
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Topic: Zimbabwe journalist murdered
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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790
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posted 03 April 2007 11:43 PM
Zimbabwe journalist murdered 'over leaked Tsvangirai pictures' quote: A local journalist suspected of having links to Zimbabwe's opposition has been found murdered following an escalation of the government's campaign of violence and intimidation. Edward Chikombo, a part-time cameraman for the state broadcaster ZBC, was abducted from his home in the Glenview township outside Harare last week. His body was discovered at the weekend near the village of Darwendale, 50 miles west of the capital, The Independent has learnt. There are concerns in Harare that the killing may be linked to the smuggling out of the country of television pictures of the badly injured opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai after he was beaten up by police on 11 March.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 04 April 2007 05:43 PM
quote: but what's bugging you about Gowans specifically ?.
Specifically this: quote: Stephen makes absolutely no attempt to examine Mugabe and Zanu PF’s role in the demise of Zimbabwe. Rather he blames everything on scary imperialist forces, sanctions and an inauthentic opposition. Conveniently simplistic.I’m not saying that the opposition and the donor community shouldn’t be criticised. Truth be told I have my issues with the opposition in Zimbabwe - I’m not a member of anyone’s fan club. I stand for the ordinary Zimbabwean who, under the Mugabe government, cannot get a job, adequate medical care, or feed themselves and is constantly under the threat of state violence, often for simply having a different point of view. Particularly distasteful was part of Stephen’s conclusion where he says: "Some people might deplore the methods used, but considering the actions and objectives of the opposition - and what’s at stake - the crackdown has been both measured and necessary." This made another phrase come to mind - Fucking Foreigner. I wonder when last Stephen left Ottawa and actually visited and spoke with the people of the countries that he analyses? Come over here Stephen and chat with ordinary folk - women who can’t buy menstrual protection, mothers who can’t feed their children, and opposition activists who have their arms broken.
http://kubatanablogs.net/kubatana/?p=125
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 04 April 2007 06:25 PM
quote: Oh, I see. They need to be able to buy menstrual pads in Zimbabwe.
That is a deeply insulting and frankly misogynist comment. Did you even bother to read Ms. Kubatana's blog entry before insulting her?
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 04 April 2007 06:30 PM
quote: Originally posted by John K:
That is a deeply insulting and frankly misogynist comment. Did you even bother to read Ms. Kubatana's blog entry before insulting her?
Oh get stuffed. You and James Bond must be vegetarians alike, because there's no meat in anything either of you are saying. We're talking about poorest of poor countries, even poorer than Haiti/DR and Guatemala if you can imagine. They can't afford Kotex in those countries either, so don't give us that baloney about needing free markets in poverty. [ 04 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323
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posted 04 April 2007 06:45 PM
quote: Originally posted by John K:
That is a deeply insulting and frankly misogynist comment. Did you even bother to read Ms. Kubatana's blog entry before insulting her?
Ms. Kubatana? "Kubatana" is the name of a project. The word means "unity" in the Shona language. Did you even bother to read about this blog before insulting Fidel?
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 04 April 2007 07:48 PM
Posted by unionist: quote: Did you even bother to read about this blog before insulting Fidel?
Who are you? Fidel's legal counsel trying to get him off on a technicality. Truth be told, I ran across the blog for the first time while googling for reactions to Gowans' diatribe. Doing a bit more googling, I see the blog entry was posted by Bev Clark, a Zimbabwean woman and gay rights activist. Among Mugabe's numerous faults is that he is a raving homophobe, another inconvenient fact overlooked by Gowans. I stand by my comments.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323
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posted 04 April 2007 08:07 PM
quote: Originally posted by John K: Who are you? Fidel's legal counsel trying to get him off on a technicality.
Not really. I just thought he made a comment about what he saw as priorities for the Zimbabwean people, and you responded with what seemed like a very emotional and overheated charge of misogyny. The fact that you were defending "Ms. Kubatana" just made it a little humorous. I see that you take it, rather, as a huge point of principle, and you prefer to "stand by my comments". Well bully for you. I know who Bev Clark is, and I support her work, and I know Mugabe is a notorious homophobe among other ugly aspects of his character, and I find it mildly amusing that you would think otherwise. [ 04 April 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 01:57 AM
quote: Originally posted by John K: Who are you? Fidel's legal counsel trying to get him off on a technicality.
You seem to have created an argument in which you've backed yourself into a corner and can't find a way out. If anyone's guilty of anything in this thread, it's you for misunderstanding your own source you've linked us to. quote: Among Mugabe's numerous faults is that he is a raving homophobe, another inconvenient fact overlooked by Gowans
You're arguing with yourself again. Neither myself or Gowans seems to be saying that Mugabe is a socialist or a particularly rational leader. At least I don't believe this is the case. Mugabe's a nationalist, which as far as the west and MNCs are concerned, is the same thing- they don't split hairs. And there are a number of reasons why Zimbabwe and other African nations have been struggling to grow food since at least 2000. Zimbabwe is not the only country to have suffered droughts in recent years. And then there is the AIDS epidemic. Stephen Lewis has said that illness compounded by malnutrition in this part of Africa has reached crisis levels. Farmers are struggling to sew and harvest crops because too many labourers are physically weakened. The situation is threatening the very ability for societies to function at the most basic levels in several African nations. Add if all this isn't working to destabilize what are the poorest of poor nations in the world, powerful western countries have imposed punitive sanctions on Zimbabwe for several years running as punishment for Mugabe's anti-imperialist challenge. Gowans points out that Zimbabwe's NGO's are the CIA's new strategy for promoting "regime change" in countries that refuse to play ball with the world banking cabal and western based MNCs. Philip Agee has described similar efforts by U.S.-based NGO's in Havana and around Latin America over the years. In case you haven't been paying attention, John, neo-Liberal democracy hasn't really worked in Russia, Africa or Latin America beginning with the first experiment in neo-Liberalization in Pinochet's Chile. What makes you think it's going to work in Zimbabwe ?. Zimbabwe doesn't need more of what has already impoverished dozens of African nations. Zimbabwe needs a similar economic fix which picked America off its economic knees from 1930s-60s as well as Chile post 1985, and that's New Deal-style socialism.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130
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posted 05 April 2007 06:36 AM
quote: He should be put in a cage in Harare and killed by having the oppressed people of Zimbabwe pelt him with thousands of pieces of rotten fruit. Prison is too good for him. He needs to die in total disgrace and humiliation for his massive crimes against humanity.
Or, conversely, he suffers whatever legal consequenses proceed from due process, and the country starts on a path to recovery on a better note. Stockholm, could you please dial it back a bit on your murder/torture fantasies?
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001
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unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323
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posted 05 April 2007 07:20 AM
quote: Originally posted by John K: Meanwhile, Fidel's equally offensive remarks continue to get a free ride from babble moderators.
"Equally offensive"? Your moral standards worry me. ETA: Actually, this is important, so let me elaborate. You have now commented - three times - on Fidel's remark that health care, education, and the AIDS crisis are more important for Zimbabweans than the type of menstrual pads they can buy. You described this as "deeply insulting" and "misogynist". Yet you made no comment about a demand for torture and death of Mugabe. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005
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Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138
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posted 05 April 2007 07:24 AM
You're right. I oppose the death penalty under any circumstances so it is wrong for me to wish death upon Mugabe. maybe it would be better to just let him live in a cage in the middle of Harare where people can feel free to taunt him and humiliate him 24 hours a day.Or even better, since he is such a vicious homophobe, I'd like to surround him on all sides with huge TV screen broadcasting hard core gay pornography 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Speaking of AIDS. Another horror of Mugabe's is the fact that Zimbabwe has just about the highest rate of HIV of any country on earth with some estimates being over 50% and his response has been to prevent any and all education programs around HIV and he refuses to even acknowledge that it exists. Zimbabwe has been denounced as having the most retrograde to non-existent policies on HIV of any country in Africa. When over the half of the population lies dead of AIDS in Zimbabwe, maybe people will wake up and blame Mugabe for him huge role in this genocide. By the time he either does or is driven from power, he will have been responsible for the deaths of more of his own people than Pol Pot was of Cambodians. yet, still, some idiots in West try to make excuses for him - as if they just can't admit that someone who was once a revolutionary hero to the 60s generation, might have morphed into an archangel of evil.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002
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unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323
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posted 05 April 2007 07:31 AM
quote: Originally posted by Stockholm:
Speaking of AIDS. Another horror of Mugabe's is the fact that Zimbabwe has just about the highest rate of HIV of any country on earth with some estimates being over 50% and his response has been to prevent any and all education programs around HIV and he refuses to even acknowledge that it exists.
You know, Stockholm, sometimes your passionate hatred in certain fields just makes you say things that are so far afield, one sits back and gasps. You're confusing Mugabe with someone else - I don't really know who. This is from 2004: HIV/AIDS touches Mugabe's family quote: Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe has become the latest African leader to reveal that members of his own family have been affected by HIV/Aids.Without naming anyone, he told the country's first conference on Aids that sufferers included "the extended family of... the president himself". Mr Mugabe said HIV/Aids was "one of the greatest challenges" facing Zimbabwe but added it was not insurmountable. [...]
[ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005
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Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138
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posted 05 April 2007 07:48 AM
quote: WTF does the HIV/AIDS epidemic have to do with homosexuality!!???
Well gee whiz, where have you been for the past 25 years? There has only been a massive death toll from HIV in gay communities across the western world and in Africa. As a result AIDS has been stereotyped as being a "gay disease" and this leads to homophobes like Mugabe being in denial about it existing in their countries because they can't acknowledge that homosexuality exists there. Of course we know that in sub-Saharan Africa, HIV is mainly spread through heterosexual transmission, but the fact that the disease was initially associated with gay men, creates a taboo around it that makes any form of public education more difficult - especially when dealing with a vicious homophobe like Robert Mugabe whose attitudes sound similar to Rev. Phelps!. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Stockholm ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 05 April 2007 08:09 AM
Posted by unionist: quote: "Equally offensive"? Your moral standards worry me.ETA: Actually, this is important, so let me elaborate. You have now commented - three times - on Fidel's remark that health care, education, and the AIDS crisis are more important for Zimbabweans than the type of menstrual pads they can buy. You described this as "deeply insulting" and "misogynist". Yet you made no comment about a demand for torture and death of Mugabe.
I used the term 'equally offensive' quite deliberately. I made no comment on Stockholm's remark b/c it was not related to my disagreement with Fidel, and besides oldgoat called him on it. You can put a benign spin on Fidel's words if you want. But's its pretty clear to me that he was using Bev Clark's metaphor about menstrual pads as an opening to attack her credibility and dismiss her core argument about Zimbabwe's deplorable human rights situation, growing unemployment and malnutrition, and failing health care system under Mugabe's misrule.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 09:53 AM
quote: Originally posted by John K: Meanwhile, Fidel's equally offensive remarks continue to get a free ride from babble moderators.
And that's because the moderators are not falling for your bs, John. And you know why? - it's because there is no demand for sanitary napkins in most of Africa. How do you think women have dealt with menses since time immemorial around the world ?. You must have a low opinion of African women in general if you think they are incapable of managing their own menstrual flow without western MNCs to fill a non-existent market niche in a desperately poor nation. What they need in these poorest of poor nations is even more basic than free markets in menstrual pads, John. Or do you even give a damn ?. quote: Did you even bother to read Ms. Kubatana's blog entry before insulting her?
No, and I don't believe you did either. I don't think you've read all of Stephen Gowans' comments either, because he made some interesting remarks about "Patrick Bond's" Zimbabwe and the source of funding behind the NGO campaign to bring about "regime change" in Zimbabwe. If you remember, a former CIA specialist on Latin America described a similar scenario surrounding the Cason affair in Havana. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 11:01 AM
quote: Originally posted by Scout:
It's a big problem and if you're not aware of the details or the activists and organizations involved in the issue leave it alone.
Well I just don't know how Ms. Kubatana manages, but here's web article linked to by Wikipedia and describing the non-existent African market in menstrual pads ... Period Pain in Zimbabwe And we're certain there are NGO's in Africa and pushing all kinds of irrelevant issues to the forefront. Desperately poor Africans need more than free markets in personal products. These U.S.-based NGO's and democratizing agencies apparently don't have a clue as to what women need in the poorest of poor nations. The average Canadian is pretty sure they don't need U.S.-style free markets in health care, that's for sure. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Brendan Stone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6257
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posted 05 April 2007 12:42 PM
The effects of the de-facto sanctions on Zimbabwe are more severe than is generally understood. According to a former head of UNICEF, only $4 per person is distributed for Zimbabwean AIDS sufferers, compared to an average of $74 in other countries. Bellamy states, when it comes to the sanctions, "the world must differentiate between the politics and people of Zimbabwe," she said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4359435.stm [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Brendan Stone ] [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Brendan Stone ]
From: Hamilton | Registered: Jun 2004
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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790
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posted 05 April 2007 01:34 PM
I don't see discussion of the economy and social conditions as being contrary to the thread topic.I can't help thinking that there is symbiotic relationship between social and economic conditions and the repressiveness of the regieme. Economic hard ship no doubt fuels discontent. I think we all see this. So on the one hand Mugabe is correct that there is a plot to unseat him, both indiginous and foreign backed, and on the other hand Mugabe's repressive reaction to this justifies the effort, to some degree. There has to be some way around this conundrum.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 01:43 PM
quote: Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
It was given as an example. You cottoned on to the example as a full argument and took the thread down that path. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]
You seem to be posing as a moderator here. If you have nothing relevant to contribute to this thread topic, then please, go back to enmasse and continue shadowing my posts with rude comments over there, "H"
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 01:56 PM
quote: Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd: It was a very interesting thread before 17. And I'm allowed to comment on irony in threads.
I think you're harassing me on two different web forums, that's what I think. And I'm really tired of it. Get a life, troll. So far I've been called a misogynist by John K, and now my enmasse shadow has dropped in to snipe at me specifically and derail another thread. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 02:31 PM
quote: Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
It was given as an example. You cottoned on to the example as a full argument and took the thread down that path. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]
No you're wrong. In my answer to John K's block quotation of his source, I was pointing out that the one example they gave was not nearly the issue of scarcity in Zimbabwe. In fact, I gave a list of real concerns and immediate issues in Zimbabwe with sources, and Brendan Stone posted supporting evidence as well. Once again, Heywood, try and stay on topic and leave moderating to the moderators. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 05 April 2007 02:33 PM
Posted by Fidel: quote: So far I've been called a mysogenist by John K
For the record, I described your comment belittling the need for menstrual pads by Zimbabwean women as misogynist. I did not call you misogynist.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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Vansterdam Kid
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5474
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posted 05 April 2007 04:17 PM
quote: Originally posted by Fidel: I'm not high on Mugabe. Not crazy about the main opposition MDC either. I think there are CIA spooks are all over Zimbabwe and S. Africa and muckraking. They're afraid of the growing trade union movement. And infiltrating unions is a CIA favourite past time.Mugabe gets the Milosovic treatment
According to the MDC: quote: The Movement for Democratic Change is Zimbabwe's official opposition party. It was born in September 1999. The party has its roots in Zimbabwe's labour movement but is also broad based. MDC is backed by business, church, women's organisations, students, human rights and civic groups, the impoverished rural population and the urban poor.
So it sort of sounds like the USian Democratic Party.
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 05 April 2007 04:34 PM
quote: Originally posted by Stockholm:
\That sounds a lot better than Mugabe's ZANU-PF which sounds more like the Fascist Party of Mussolini's Italy (only without ever making any trains run on time)
Except that Mussolini, like Hitler, rounded up socialists and communists and had them shot. MDC are not true leftists by what I can tell. MDC is better funded and organized than any leftist parties before them. Gowan says as much about the "independent left" in Zimbabwe and S. Africa in his reply to Patrick Bond. In fact, neo-Liberal capitalism failed miserably in several different countries in different decades. And they want Mugabe to step down in paving the way for a lap dog government friendly to western MNCs and the banking cabal. There is ample opportunity for the west to prove neo-Liberal ideology in any of the dozens of democratic capitalist third world nations where chronic hunger and desperate poverty are the rule without punishing further what is one of the world's most poverty-stricken countries after centuries of stagnation under racist colonialism. [ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Vansterdam Kid
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5474
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posted 06 April 2007 03:33 AM
quote: Originally posted by Stockholm: \That sounds a lot better than Mugabe's ZANU-PF which sounds more like the Fascist Party of Mussolini's Italy (only without ever making any trains run on time)
No doubt. I could swear they were also members of Socialist International, although according to that organization's list of member parties, they aren't. [ 06 April 2007: Message edited by: Vansterdam Kid ]
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004
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