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Author Topic: Georgetti on NAFTA: can't unscramble the omelette
robbie_dee
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posted 23 September 2004 06:48 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From www.clc-ctc.ca

quote:
Georgetti urges union leadership to embrace new thinking on industrial policy to ensure labour influence over national economic strategies

OTTAWA - The president of the Canadian Labour Congress is urging the country’s labour leadership to work towards a new industrial policy that, while acknowledging the post-free-trade-agreement world, would promote a more activist role for government in steering market forces towards jobs-rich economic development.

Ken Georgetti issued the collective challenge in his opening remarks to a CLC Industrial Policy Conference, being held in Ottawa today and tomorrow, September 22-23. It is the labour movement’s first new attempt to influence national industrial policy since the anti-NAFTA battles of the late 1980s.


“All of us appreciate that this country more than ever needs good jobs with good wages,” said Georgetti. “The lives and livelihood of working people require it. The ability of governments to fund public services and programs demands it.


“The reality today is that much of our domestic economy is part and parcel of a North American economy. And to a much greater extent than was the case before the FTA and NAFTA. Nor are we immune to the pressures on North American manufacturing posed by the rapid rise of China and developing Asia to world dominance in the production of consumer goods. Nor to the recent rise in the offshoring of services.”


The CLC President told Conference participants that the labour movement must begin to devise a new, credible and workable industrial policy that allows it to become a serious player in the national debate and determination of economic strategies.


“Unfortunately, the dominant governmental approach of the past 20 years, and more, has been to leave industrial development almost entirely to the whims of the market. We need to sustain and create good private sector jobs, and a strong industrial sector should be an important goal of our overall economic policies. We also want active, not passive, government action to ensure that corporate decisions promote national and regional economic development. And the job creation that goes along with it.”


The Conference, being held at Ottawa’s Fairmont Château Laurier Hotel and open to media, continues today and tomorrow with a series of panels, presentations and debates by leading economists, commentators and politicians.


The Canadian Labour Congress, the national voice of the labour movement, represents 3 million Canadian workers. The CLC brings together Canada's national and international unions along with the provincial and territorial federations of labour and 137 district labour councils. Web site: www.clc-ctc.ca



From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
kyall glennie
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posted 24 September 2004 02:16 AM      Profile for kyall glennie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The National Post's spin on this was hilarious - front page news for Wednesday Sept 22.

They basically said, "yep, the labour movement was wrong, we knew it all along, but they just realised it! What idiots!" I believe the author was Bill Curry, who I suspect is the labour "writer" for the Post.

The best part was their article was based on a pre-release of the speech and not the actual speech as delivered. That's a wonderful way to write journalism - use drafts of things that *might* happen!


From: Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 24 September 2004 12:00 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Didn't David Orchard already convince the PC Party to issue the "We were wrong about NAFTA" press release?

BTW, I am of course fully expecting Asper to do a Dan Rather on tonight's Global News and beg for forgiveness for his media conglomerate's faulty journalism in this instance.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 24 September 2004 02:58 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some wiseacre posted this to Labourstart:

quote:
An Open Letter to Ken Georgetti on Free Trade from Dr. Karl Marx
The Canadian Labour Congress (CLC) annonces that it no longer opposes free trade agreements like the FTA and NAFTA, it now embraces Free Trade, wanting to ameloriate its worst aspects. Dr. Karl Marx responds

Public Speech Delivered by Karl Marx
before the
Democratic Association of Brussels

January 9, 1848

***
To sum up, what is free trade, what is free trade under the present condition of society? It is freedom of capital. When you have overthrown the few national barriers which still restrict the progress of capital, you will merely have given it complete freedom of action.

So long as you let the relation of wage labor to capital exist, it does not matter how favorable the conditions under which the exchange of commodities takes place, there will always be a class which will exploit and a class which will be exploited. It is really difficult to understand the claim of the free-traders who imagine that the more advantageous application of capital will abolish the antagonism between industrial capitalists and wage workers. On the contrary, the only result will be that the antagonism of these two classes will stand out still more clearly.

Let us assume for a moment that there are no more Corn Laws or national or local custom duties; in fact that all the accidental circumstances which today the worker may take to be the cause of his miserable condition have entirely vanished, and you will have removed so many curtains that hide from his eyes his true enemy.

He will see that capital become free will make him no less a slave than capital trammeled by customs duties.
***


http://lnn.laborstart.org/more.php?id=245_0_1_0_M


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boinker
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posted 26 September 2004 11:09 AM      Profile for Boinker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One thing that Georgietti doesn't bring up is that one country in the North American Free Trade block has not been assimilated - Cuba. Yet it has maintained itself under the most trying of circumstances for almost 50 years and with a fraction of the reesources that are in Canada. In many respects the poverty there aid this independence by demanding social cohesion.

In a wealthy country like Canada it is more difficult for everyone to risk their current affluence for a broader general goal. But "Free Trade" cuts both ways. There will come a time when China will be overpoweringly dominant in certain areas of the economy. The protections of a North American free trade zone will fall to free trade agreements with this economic supernova in the making.

By scrapping NAFTA and the FTA unions are not risking the buisness that goes on across borders we are just reasserting the principle that allows US governments to protect softwood workers and Canadian governments to protect healthcare and our water, as two examples.

Georgietti's support for NAFTA and FTA is a contradiction of the whole process of collective bargaining itself. It is akin to saying that unions do not have to negotiate on an ongoing basis for new wage deals, benefits, job protection and so on.

Tarrifs can be negotiated like collective agreements and can be used as useful ways to avoid social dislocation for short term profits or for political reasons. Under the rigid rules of these trade agreements disputes must be litigated, usually resulting in Canadians being forced to cave in to US interests anyway.

We have had a 20 year experiment with so called "free market" economics and it has failed utterly as the stats for wages will show. As Polanyi suggested in the last century "markets" do not exist independent of the social and cultural milieu they are in. Free Markets do not end "political economy" they skew it totally in favour of the small minority of the capitalist class.

As head of the CLC he should know better. I think it is time he stepped down. I vote for Buzz to take over. He wouldn't be trying to cosy up to the financial class. Georgietti is typical of the phenomenon of "nouveau riche" unionism that occurs when unions become successful and lose touch with their roots as they eye the enormous amounts of money in their pension funds...

They begin to see that the protection of this fund and its enrichment are the primary goal of unions. They see the world at a crossroads in 1988 when the dye was cast in favour of the demise of government as the protector of the public weal and the emergence of the union trust fund as the new vehicle. Either extreme is incorrect and Mr. Georgietti should be more honest about where he is leaning.

[ 26 September 2004: Message edited by: Boinker ]


From: The Junction | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 27 September 2004 02:35 AM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Murray Dobbin comments:

quote:
This past Wednesday saw fierce controversy in the labour movement as Canadian Labour Congress (CLC) president Ken Georgetti tried desperately to explain to his federation members media - read CanWest - claims that he now supported free trade. In an email to CLC union heads Georgetti stated official CLC policy: “We continue to oppose NAFTA and other similar trade deals.” But the speech reported on, and a CLC position paper on the economy, were much more ambiguous. Georgetti talked of a North American economy and how, regarding NAFTA, it was hard to “unscramble an omelette.” The CLC paper said free trade had not been the “economic disaster” once predicted.

I guess it depends on your definition of disaster.


Read the Rest

I found both Bookers comments above, and Dobbin's article, very insightful. That being said, my impression is that it is not so much "free trade" that matters as it is unregulated capital flows. And that's been less of a problem between Canada and the US as it has between the broader "North" and "South." I think Georgetti's recognition that you "can't unscramble the omelette" may also help re-focus labor's attention on other problems we can tackle today.

[ 27 September 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

[ 27 September 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
fuslim
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posted 27 September 2004 04:55 AM      Profile for fuslim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Excellent post with Marx's view of free trade. I think in the Manifesto it was given as something like: "Free trade or no free trade, all for the benefit of the bourgeiose."

Those words are as true now as they were then.

From Georgetti's speech:

"Nor are we immune to the pressures on North American manufacturing posed by the rapid rise of China and developing Asia to world dominance in the production of consumer goods. Nor to the recent rise in the offshoring of services."

This is great, pitting working people in Canada against working people in China.

This is precisely the argument CEO's use when trying to get their employees to accept cutbacks.

Why in heaven's name would someone from the labour movement make their argument for them.

The real argument would be to help increase the standard of living of Chinese workers, including through unionization.

Of course, Georgetti would never think of trying to get capital to accept a "level playing field" in terms of wages and working conditions. That would be far too radical for him.

So right now the Chinese are telling their workforce that they must accept lower wages in order to really get Chinese exports going.

In fact, the very words used by Georgetti might be used by some Chinese official to tame the workforce.

Or they may be pointed to by some official as a way of showing how Canadians are trying to prevent Chinese workers from getting jobs.

How different it would be if, instead of blaming workers in another country, Georgetti offered CLC assistance to 3rd world workers in organizing themselves.

That would tend to build solidarity. His approach tends to tear it down.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boinker
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posted 27 September 2004 10:31 AM      Profile for Boinker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is an excellent article in the September issue of New Internationalist by Dr Yu Jianrong:

A Single Spark Starts a Prairie Fire

It discusses how farmers are organizing and fighting back against the corrupted revolution.

I think we need to think about looking after our own backyard. We shouldn't be feeding the capitalist iniatives in China that are undermining the revolutionary spirit there.

The spark

One way this might happen is if labour sponsored funds lent money to Chinese farm cooperatives. Georgetti's CLC might see this as a useful use of labour funds. I don't know. To me it would empower the farmers and protect them from price gouging bureaucrats.

[ 27 September 2004: Message edited by: Boinker ]


From: The Junction | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 27 September 2004 11:31 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fuslim:
I think in the Manifesto it was given as something like: "Free trade or no free trade, all for the benefit of the bourgeiose."

Those words are as true now as they were then.


From the World Bank progress report on poverty:

quote:
China alone lifted about 400 million of people out of absolute poverty. GDP per capita increased five times since 1981. The number of extremely poor people fell from over 600 million to slightly more that 200 million, or from 64 percent to 17 percent.

From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 27 September 2004 12:24 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oliver Cromwell, I love you and all, but for heaven's sake please stop recycling that "China is the poster child of free trade" stuff.

You know as well as I do that China still insulates its domestic economy in ways that violate the "Washington Consensus" model of international relations which posits free trade on the Adam-Smith-and-David-Ricardo model.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 27 September 2004 12:48 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know, I know. But it appears that these facts aren't as well-known as they should be. And I think is clear that this improvement can be attributed to trade liberalisation.

Eventually, of course, they'll have to implement more reforms. For example, now that they're startinmg to generat savings of their own, they're going to need a financial market that can channel saving to investments.


From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 27 September 2004 12:58 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also, the World Bank is not an unbiased source. It can't be considered credible.

But let's assume for a moment they are correct. Let's assume China is this marvel of a capitalist economy, which, I agree, it is. Are you suggesting we should emulate China's approach of low wages, few environmental controls, child labour, sanctioned state unions only and strikes outlawed with limited human rights?


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
DonnyBGood
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posted 27 September 2004 09:50 PM      Profile for DonnyBGood     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The number of extremely poor people fell from over 600 million to slightly more that 200 million, or from 64 percent to 17 percent.

Hmm...what's the difference between and extremely poor person and your "normal" say "very" poor person?


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 27 September 2004 10:11 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The World Bank uses an income threshold of the equivalent of one USD per day to classify extreme poverty.
From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 27 September 2004 11:31 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So what are they doing at the world bank? Calculating the growth in the monetized economy and dividing it by China's population?

Or are they looking at genuine social indicators?

I'd be the first to say that China had been hampered by some Maoist excesses, but to say the present process is an unmitigated blessing is also going a bit far.

Whatever it is, it ain't free trade anyway. China demands much from foreign investors and deviates from the Washington consensus in many ways.

I liked Dobbins's piece by the way. Though Martin's war on the deficit was used to bludgeon Canadians more than NAFTA was. Free trade, like zero inflation, was a means to cement capital's control over society, it was "sold" with a bunch of pie-in-the-sky crapola, which was quickly forgotten.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 28 September 2004 08:52 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The World Bank uses an income threshold of the equivalent of one USD per day to classify extreme poverty.

I remember reading somewhere (Naomi Klein, maybe?) that the World Bank lowered their extreme poverty threshold from two USD per day to one USD per day. That most of these 400 million Chinese were essentially reclassified from the extreme poverty bracket based on this change, not based on any lifestyle improvements.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 28 September 2004 09:22 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, that's not it. From this pdf document, it looks as though they keep track of data for both thresholds for certain countries.
From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 28 September 2004 11:06 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I notice that the world bank makes use of calorie intake in the document. This is probably a good thing, but, again, it might be similar to the per capita income levels: a higher monetary gdp, divided by the population and masking increases in inequality.

If the Chinese are eating better, is it shared all around? Have market reforms increased agricultural productivity overall? Or are some now very wealthy Chinese (numbering in the millions or even tens of millions) been able to afford to import more food from elsewhere and eat much more than previously and this increased caloric intake is likewise divided through the whole population?

Reason I ask is that neo-liberalism, free trade, and all that stuff, is a very mixed bag. While China's political system was obviously stultifying and sometimes very unproductive, there were efforts made to feed, house, cloth, and educate everyone at a minimum level. Today, landlessness is rising, there is a unemployed, transient population of 30 million, corruption is rampant in some areas, prostitution (due to economic necessity not libido/see my other posts on the subject) has reappeared, and pollution [from aping our unsustainable system] is on the climb).

The world bank's numbers aren't clear as to the nature of the acheivements they trumpet. we'd like to keep the good and discard the bad, but we have to know which is which first.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 28 September 2004 11:38 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I sit corrected. I must've been reading about second party reporting of the World Bank data. I recall that someone out there switched the two numbers to promote their flowery picture of globalization. Probably the Fraser Institute or somesuch group.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 28 September 2004 03:48 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Given that we probably can't easily get out of these agreements, we could actually try to make them work in a way that actually benefits people.
From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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