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A woman claiming she was coerced into a sexual relationship by a rabbi is suing the rabbi and a prominent Toronto synagogue for $1.3 million.

Richmond Hill resident Yona Nadler, 52, is suing Rabbi Tobias Gabriel and the Beth Tzedec Synagogue for breach of fiduciary duty and the pain and suffering she claims the relationship caused her and her marriage.

The lawsuit highlights an issue that has pushed some religious institutions into writing codes of conduct that govern relationships between clergy and members of their congregations.

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Is the guy despicable? He sure seems to be. Should he be made to resign? SHell yes. But I don't buy the "coersion" claim by this 52 year old married woman whose extramarital affair has left her family life, and emotional well-being in ruins.

If the guy was pressuring her for sex, she had many avenues of recourse, including filing a complaint with the synagogue. This devoutly religious woman knew, or certainly should have known, that having sex with her rabbi behind her husband's back was wrong on a number of different levels, and should have known that his harassing behavior would not be tolerated. This rabbi is being forced to resign and he has been suspended. Can the Catholic Church, with its history of whitewashing the horrendous abuses of its clergy reasonably claim that it responded appropriately to complaints from parishoners? Gosh no. Not even a bit (until forced to very very recently).

Conservative and orthodox Judaism in general, and this case in particular, really doesn't consistently offer that good a point of comparison with other conservative and orthodox religious faiths which dictate that women are to be ruled and dominated by their husbands who maintain their wives as domestic chattel for the purposes of service, procreation and sexual enjoyment.

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Originally posted by Rebecca West:
This rabbi sounds like so many others who abuse their position of trust in the community in order to control and/or be sexually gratified by those in a position of relatively less power.

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Ummm, this dude is the CANTOR. He's a hired singer at the synagogue. He is not the rabbi of the synagogue - in fact, under Judaic custom and law, he is no kind of spiritual leader.

Anyone who graduates from certain Jewish colleges and receives a certificate known as "s'michah" can call themselves "rabbi". It's like calling yourself "Doctor" if you have a PhD. It does not in any way mean that they lead a congregation or ever will. All it means is that they've graduated from a certain course.

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Originally posted by Rebecca West:

... I don't buy the "coersion" claim by this 52 year old married woman whose extramarital affair has left her family life, and emotional well-being in ruins.

If the guy was pressuring her for sex, she had many avenues of recourse, including filing a complaint with the synagogue. .

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He was not "the Rabbi".

He was not "her Rabbi".

He was the cantor. And he taught a class for wannabe cantors. It's like a 52-year-old complaining that their tennis instructor seduced them. The instructor may be a shitbag; the instructor may be liable to termination by the tennis school; the instructor may have ruined the person's life; but unless the instructor committed some criminal offence (extortion, sexual assault, stalking, rape, whatever), or unless the victim was under-age, what's the big deal here???

[ 29 August 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Originally posted by unionist:
Ummm, this dude is the CANTOR. He's a hired singer at the synagogue. He is not the rabbi of the synagogue - in fact, under Judaic custom and law, he is no kind of spiritual leader.

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Not true, he is a Rabbi, just not the Chief Rabbi of the synagogue though, and he taught lessons in being a Cantor, and he was known to have done this before.

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Originally posted by unionist:

Ummm, this dude is the CANTOR. He's a hired singer at the synagogue. He is not the rabbi of the synagogue - in fact, under Judaic custom and law, he is no kind of spiritual leader. but to suggest there was a hierarchical relationship between the two is just an error.

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Originally posted by remind:

Not true, he is a Rabbi, just not the Chief Rabbi of the synagogue though, and he taught lessons in being a Cantor, and he was known to have done this before.

And apparently it is a deeply conservative synagogue, as such, I agree with TH.

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Originally posted by Rebecca West:
In many cases the rabbi is also the cantor, especially in smaller congregations.

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Yeah - but not in this case! That's just a diversion. This man is not "the Rabbi" of this synagogue. He's the Chazzan. That's like the choir leader in a church, singing solos.

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A rabbi - whether also a cantor or not - is not a priest. But a rabbi does hold a position of respect and trust.

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That is utter nonsense. The janitor could be a rabbi. It's not a position, it's a degree. A Chazzan (cantor) holds no position of "respect and trust" in a synagogue, other than the fact that people might respect his musical abilities and trust her/him to hit the right notes!

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She is one who leads the congregation in prayer - spoken or sung, teaches, counsels and is generally involved in the community.

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13. If you enjoy sinning, the choir is looking
for you.

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I couldn't help it. I got this from the Beth Tzedec website....I just had to post it.

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Originally posted by remind:
I did, I reread the article, are you saying the Star is wrong?

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No, remind, I'm saying you are wrong:

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Gabriel, who was hired as a cantor by Beth Tzedec, has accepted an agreement with the synagogue that will see him resign at the end of the year, Kwinter said. He will be paid until then, he added.

Gabriel, who is not the synagogue's chief rabbi, has been suspended and will no longer work at Beth Tzedec, Royce said.[/qb]

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This is the same as saying that he is not the rabbi, period. He doesn't work for the synagogue as a rabbi. He's the cantor - the chief singer.

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In July 2006, Nadler was the only female in Gabriel's class for student cantors at the Bathurst St. synagogue when Gabriel became "friendly and flirtatious," according to a statement of claim filed by Nadler and her husband, Samuel, at Ontario's Superior Court last month.

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That's a class teaching people to sing the liturgy. He's not a spiritual leader - and he wasn't teaching her to be a spiritual leader either!!

By the way, if this were an Orthodox synagogue, it would be inconceivable to have a woman cantor or to teach women to be cantors. That's to Rebecca's remind's comment about "deeply conservative"... It's Conservative with a capital "C". It's like calling Joe Lieberman "deeply democratic" or George Bush "deeply republican"!!

ETA: Very sorry for the typo, I had attributed remind's "deeply conservative" comment to Rebecca - now corrected.

[ 29 August 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Originally posted by TemporalHominid:

The Rabbi, being in a position of authority and trust, could use Legalism and authoritarianism in conjunction with blackmail, psychological manipulation, the synagogue's patriarchal organisation, fear and shame (past or present experiences of the woman he may be privy to) to get what he wanted. The woman may not have had much choice, from a psychological and personal point of view.

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Originally posted by unionist:

By the way, if this were an Orthodox synagogue, it would be inconceivable to have a woman cantor or to teach women to be cantors. That's to Rebecca's comment about "deeply conservative"... It's Conservative with a capital "C". It's like calling Joe Lieberman "deeply democratic" or George Bush "deeply republican"!!

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Also, I don't believe I've used the phrase "deeply conservative" anywhere. Please feel free to point out where I have. And whether I used the upper case or not in conservative or orthodox (I don't capitalize many words that others do) is also extremely irrelevant.

Reform is the liberal branch of Judaism. Conservative is not liberal per se - it only seems progressive when compared to most mainstream faiths, many of which are hopelessly mired in antiquated doctrine.

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Originally posted by unionist:
[QB]I know we cross-posted, but let me please emphasize:

He was not "the Rabbi".

He was not "her Rabbi".

He was the cantor.

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yep we did

Thanks for the distinction unionist.

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The statement of claim says Nadler relied on Gabriel as "an authority figure to give advice to her, to guide her and to protect her from harm."

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Originally posted by Rebecca West:

Also, I don't believe I've used the phrase "deeply conservative" anywhere. Please feel free to point out where I have.

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You didn't. Remind did. My blunder, I apologize for that.

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Unionist, unless you are a rabbinical scholar, rabbi or cantor, or even a member of a conservative synagogue, your pointing out "errors in fact" made by others isn't very credible.

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Originally posted by TemporalHominid:
Can the cantor also serve the role of counselor, advisor, and be considered an authroity figure?

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Not in Jewish halakhah or custom or tradition. If this individual decided to view this dude as "an authority figure to give advice to her, to guide her and to protect her from harm" - then (if true) that was part of their relationship or maybe her own personal feelings. It had nothing to do with the fact that he was a cantor in her shul!!!! Kindly refer again to my example of tennis instructor.

By the way, in a Conservative synagogue, even if it had been the Rabbi (which it wasn't), Judaism just doesn't establish that kind of authority relationship.

Let's say my next-door neighbour is a retired Mayor and Nobel-prize winner and composer and renowned biologist. She is a wonderful person, respected and trusted by all, and people come from far and near to seek out her opinion. One day, while I'm over for coffee and cookies, after many failed efforts, she finally seduces me. When my spouse finds out, I sue my neighbour for $1.3 million.

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Originally posted by unionist:

One day, while I'm over for coffee and cookies, after many failed efforts, she finally seduces me. When my spouse finds out, I sue my neighbour for $1.3 million.

Please.

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Originally posted by Polly Brandybuck:

I wonder how you calculate a dollar figure on something like that?

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Originally posted by Polly Brandybuck:

I couldn't help it. I got this from the Beth Tzedec website....I just had to post it.

Someone should update this website.

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Congregants at Beth Tzedec Congregation are still getting used to referring to their chazzan sheni as Rabbi Gabriel, instead of the more familiar “Cantor Gabriel.”

Rabbi Tobias (Tobi) Gabriel was ordained from the Jewish Theological Seminary on Dec. 15, an accomplishment all the more impressive for the fact that he kept up with full-time synagogue duties while commuting by plane twice a week to classes in New York, just over 800 km away. Not to mention that, at age 62, the father of three and grandfather of seven is decades older than most of the students in his graduating class.

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Originally posted by the truth:
What is missing the fact that this clergy member of the Beth Tzedec had had affairs with other women in the past and that the head rabbi as well as others were aware of his behaviour.

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Having affairs is a sin? At my age, it would be a mitzvah!

Seriously though, if you're saying there's no issue of abuse of authority (and I didn't see evidence of any at the time as I stated in this old thread), why shouldn't everyone have affairs?

P'ru, ur'vu, umil'u et ha'aretz!

Be fruitful and multiply and fill the land!

As I said, it's a mitzvah, one of the taryag (613) commandments, Genesis 1:22.

What God hath put together, let no human put asunder.

As for the cover-up: Adam and Eve got turfed from the Garden for covering up. Haven't we suffered enough for their indiscretion?

[ 03 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Originally posted by unionist:
Having affairs is a sin? At my age, it would be a mitzvah!

Be fruitful and multiply and fill the land!

As I said, it's a mitzvah, one of the taryag (613) commandments, Genesis 1:22.

What God hath put together, let no human put asunder.

As for the cover-up: Adam and Eve got turfed from the Garden for covering up. Haven't we suffered enough for their indiscretion?

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Originally posted by the truth:
I have no idea what you are talking about.

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You mean the Hebrew bits?

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From the legal point of view if it were not against the law the law suit would not have happened.

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Actually, if it were against the law, someone would have called the police. Which law did you have in mind? Other than the laws of body chemistry, I mean...

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In some states in the U.S. this "rabbi" could have done jail time.

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In some states they would have used lethal injection on both of them. Thank God they did the deed in Ontario!

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Just as doctors and others in positions of power and trust have intrinsic authority, so too do religious leaders.

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"Religious leaders"???? The man is a (literally) f***ing CANTOR. Do you know what that means? It means he can carry a tune! He's a crooner!

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From a moral point of view it is clear and acknowledged, that married men should not be chasing after other women.

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They can only chase if the women are running. I believe the facts in this case are that she was standing still. Or perhaps seated, not sure of the details.

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This "rabbi", this religious leader, this teacher of morality, had a history and a pattern of behaviour of chasing after married woment. This clearly showed he had no concept of right and wrong.

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If so, then he's not guilty by reason of insanity! You think I don't watch T.V. courtroom dramas? I know my law!

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All of the above is not only self evident, but worse, his behaviour was known by his fellow clergy, and they covered up for him.

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Again with the "covered up". It's just plain modesty. Is that a crime now too?

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Why the board of directors at the Beth Tzedec have not changed their leadership is beyond me.

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Originally posted by the truth:
His functions in the synagogue were also that of a teacher, and he also officiated at many different life cycle events.

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What do you have against sex education?

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The point is that after 13 years of working in the synagogue, he did much more than simply lead some of the services,

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Much much more, I would agree. There are services, and then there are services.

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... his position within the community was definitely that of a religious leader.

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I've already pointed out in a previous post, on the issue of "chasing", that the "position" in question is not made clear by the media reports.

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Besides, why would you want to defend this adulterous, liar?

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Going by my own religion...

In some churches, the choir leader is just another person at church doing their part, without any authority over anyone else. At my church, the organist and the choir leader were both like that - they weren't considered to have "positions of authority".

In some congregations, however, there ARE people who are considered kind of like elders, you know? People who have a lot of power within the church don't necessarily have that because of their official position, but sometimes it's because of their social standing. In some churches, the choirmaster position is a big deal. It can be a position of authority, especially if people within the church see the choirmaster as particularly gifted by God, or spiritual.

I have no idea what the case was in this synagogue. But I would be surprised if there weren't similar sorts of variances between different congregations in synagogues as there are between churches.

Perhaps the reason this guy decided to get his title of "rabbi" is because he already held an unofficial position of authority within the congregation's society, and he felt that was something he was "called" to do (excuse the Christianese there ) because of what he was already doing.

Or, maybe he really was just Joe Cantor who didn't hold any perceived position of spiritual or societal authority over the others. It's hard to know.

My guess, considering that he was an older man who plays a vital part in the worship services and was leading music classes for aspiring cantors, and that he achieved a degree of learning for which he recently became able to be addressed as "rabbi" makes me think that there was some authority there.

[ 05 June 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Originally posted by the truth:
This "authority" is recognized as existing by both the medical profession and the law. The members of such professions and their governing bodies, have established boundaries for their personal interaction with the people who come to them because of their profession.

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If a lawyer seduces her client (talking about two consenting adults here), she'll be booted out of the bar association? News to me.

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Any man or woman who cheats on his spouse is by definition a liar.

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So the good Cantor's sex partners are liars. How would you like to punish them?

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Again why so much effort to defend this scum bag?

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Originally posted by the truth:

Probably this law suit came about because of the same type of "cover up" behaviour by the people who were in charge.

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Actually, it seems as if the "victim" is now part of the "cover-up".

She sued for $1.3 million. Did you know that? Why did she want all that money? To heal her marriage? To cure her hurt feelings? Seems like a strange approach, no?

Worse yet, she settled out of court - money changed hands. And by doing so, she guaranteed that the whole story would never become public.

Amazing what a little money will buy. Ain't it, the truth?

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Is this scum bag a friend of yours?

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These money discussions usually take place amongst the lawyers. The person bringing the suit follows to, and listens to what the lawyer does on their behalf, because the lawyers are experts and the client is not.

Affidavit of documents are exchanged. These documents help both sides determine who was wronged, how much they were wronged, and what it was worth to the plaintiff.

After all information has been gathered, both sides then determine if the case goes to court or if it canm be settled outside of court.

In sexual harassment/sexual assault cases, generally the victim does not want to go to court, for very good reasons. (I am going to assume that those reasons are self-evident here).

The eventual outcome is a settlement out of court. Why out of court? It saves the victim a hell of a lot of trauma, and two, and more importantly, it saves the company or defendant the publicity that they definitely do not want.

Unionist, I usually agree with most of what you say but your last post does not even begin to show an understanding of how, in cases of a sexual nature, the very outcomes you describe as seemingly sinister, are actually very very common and often have very little to do with the victim.

[ 05 June 2008: Message edited by: Stargazer ]

Again, why are you so interested in defending this person that betrayed his wife, his children, his profession, and his congregation and his religion?

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Originally posted by Stargazer:

In sexual harassment/sexual assault cases, generally the victim does not want to go to court, for very good reasons. (I am going to assume that those reasons are self-evident here).

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You know, Stargazer, I've been indulging in a lot of horsing around in this thread, and maybe I shouldn't have because I know nothing about what happened except what was in the media. My main aim was to explain to everyone that this character Tobias was not any kind of authority figure in Conservative Judaism.

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This was not some assault victim going to the police and hoping to keep her circumstances as discreet as possible (which sometimes can happen, too often not). It was a civil suit where she was looking for money and not at all reluctant to make her name and story public.

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I'm not familiar with this particular case (I confess, I have not read it actually) so I can see that things as I described them may not have happened that way. However, you do not need to go to the police at all to initiate a civil suit. Oftentimes the victim will want to settle quickly and get the whole ordeal over with. The lawyers are the driving force here. Launching a civil suite does not mean anyone is looking to go public. In fact, the opposite is often true. I guess I just don't think it was fair to claim that settling out of court, or the amount of money that may or may not have changed hands, is some sinister plot cooked up by the victim. The generalizations are not helpful and are in fact, inaccurate.

Settlements out of court will generally come with a nondisclosure agreement.

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Originally posted by the truth:
Again, why are you so eager to defend this fraud?

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Because his relationship with his accuser was that she was in a cantorial class and he was giving her singing lessons.

Because "seduction" between consenting adults in circumstances like this is not the business of the public.

Because his parents, like mine, were refugees from the Nazis.

And because I prefer the approach of the Rabbinical Assembly which issued his semicha:

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The R.A. has a “zero tolerance” policy toward rabbinical impropriety, said its executive vice president, Rabbi Joel Meyers, “but the goal is not always to just say, ‘Sorry, you’re finished.’ As rabbis, we absolutely believe that teshuvah [repentance] is possible. The question is whether there is a commitment to changed behavior.”

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Think about it.

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Originally posted by the truth:
I am truely sorry if I have in any way insulted or offended you.

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It doesn't help to apologize if you continue to be insulting and offensive.

You can debate this issue without attacking the person you're debating with. Unionist has answered your question over and over again, as to why he's "defending" this person. You need to stop asking now.

I really wasn't trying to attack anyone, but I found it extremely frustrating dealing with irreverance for an issue that I felt demanded the proper kind of understanding.

After all, what kind of person says that she dosen't see what Gabriel did wrong by having numerous affairs and cheating on his wife.
Would she condon her husband cheating on her and say that she dosen't see what he did wrong? Obviously she wasn't being honest.

Just as obviously Unionist's comments were not designed to better understand what happened, but rather to garnish support for a man that brought disrepute to an institution and a profession and a religion that I hold dear.

If it is true that her parents were refugees from the Nazis then she should try to honour them by demanding more of our moral and religious leaders not by using them as an excuse for such immoral behaviour.

Gabriel, and others like him, who have exploited women, who have exploited their position for their own sexual gratification, deserve our condemnation not our support and certainly not our loyality.

People like Gabriel are a blight on society.
It is both sad and dangerous when society refuses or fails to see the inherent wrong of such behaviour.
Such blindness invites more illegimate behaviour.
The truth of his actions and others like him must be exposed and recognized for what it is, or we are all at risk.

[ 08 June 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

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Originally posted by the truth:
I feel certain that if she really had 13 years of knowledge, then she really learned nothing, or she has intentionally posted comments designed to defend Gabriel.
She must have some connection to the guy.
Most of her comments are either misleading, flat out wrong, or lies.

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Once again, you are violating babble policy. You are not allowed to call other babblers liars. And unionist has been posting to this site for years - he certainly didn't just happen to come along and start posting on this topic, so it's pretty obvious that he's not just here because he "has some connection to the guy".

People are allowed to comment and (gasp!) disagree with you without having aspersions cast upon them by you.

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Originally posted by the truth:
Hi Michelle, you are right.
I was very wrong to call uniounist a liar.
Such a thing will never happen again.

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Thanks!

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any other comments some of the other things I said?

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