Dans la Cuba actuelle ,il y a plus de 300 prisonniers politiques, des personnes courageuses et qui ont des principes, comme le docteur Oscar Biscet, sont emprisonnées pour avoir osé demander des élections démocratiques et le respect des droits humains.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=61474434

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Geneva ]

Digital Granma, in English. Straight from the horse's mouth

US Department of State. Clearing house for attempts to overthrow the government of Cuba

For political stuff, try ...

The Myth of Cuban Dictatorship

Good stuff over here by the Canadian Network on Cuba which outlines much of the history of Emigration, Cubans "fleeing" the island, etc. It's a long read but it's very informative.

Why Cubans "flee" the Island.

And then I found this web site useful ...

Cuba Inside Out

Given the misleading statements by some babblers, it's probably important to point out that the US plays a role of disorganizing orderly emigration from Cuba. I think the piece on Cubans "fleeing" will probably be helpful in this regard.

It's a bit of work but if you're tired of the vituperative and vicious attacks on Cuba by the usual suspects then ... do your homework. For example, those people who blather about the lack of "multi-party" elections will not be the ones to tell you that NO party is allowed to run for office. They will choose to "forget" that detail. It seems to me that this is an attempt to smear the Cubans by implicitly (or explicitly) asserting that the Cuban Communists play the same role that Communists did in the old Soviet Union. Do your reading and you will find out what bullshit this is. And so on. Good reading!

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

For example, those people who blather about the lack of "multi-party" elections will not be the ones to tell you that NO party is allowed to run for office. They will choose to "forget" that detail. And so on. Good reading!

---

Gee, sorry to "blather" about elections when good old two-fisted propaganda for dictatorship is also an available option!

Of course, it is a lie that the Communist Party of Cuba does not place candidates for election. Almost all the candidates are members of the Comnmunist Party, and the others are approved by it.

That is because the CONSTITUTION of Cuba recognizes only one party.

quote:

---

AND HAVING DECIDED

to carry forward the triumphant Revolution of the Moncada and of the Granma of the Sierra and of Girón under the leadership of Fidel Castro, which sustained by the closest unity of all revolutionary forces and of the people won full national independence, established revolutionary power, carried out democratic changes, started the construction of socialism and, with the Communist Party at the forefront, continues this construction with the final objective of building a communist society;

---

quote:

---

ARTICLE 5. The Communist Party of Cuba, a follower of Martí’s ideas and of Marxism-Leninism, and the organized vanguard of the Cuban nation, is the highest leading force of society and of the state, which organizes and guides the common effort toward the goals of the construction of socialism and the progress toward a communist society,

---

quote:

---

ARTICLE 6. The Young Communist League, the organization of Cuba’s vanguard youth, has the recognition and encouragement of the state in its main duty of promoting the active participation of young people in the tasks of building socialism and adequately preparing the youth to be conscientious citizens capable of assuming ever greater responsibilities for the benefit of our society.

---

http://www.cubanet.org/ref/dis/const_92_e.htm

quote:

---

jeff house: Since the Constitution actually mentions Fidel Castro, the Communist Party, and the Communist youth BY NAME, no honest person could claim that other parties are treated equally.

---

Fidel Castro doesn't get any more rights than anyone else by virtue of being named in their sacred legal documents. What you've quoted only tells their history, about which they are so proud. The guy is a national hero and a living legend. And he's enjoying his current role as social commentator, unburdened by all his past duties of state. But it is useful to point out that the government is expected, nay, mandated, to keep building socialism towards the goal of a communist, classless society. That must really make you ill, eh Jeff?

The other quotes - again, misleading. Why did you skip over all the articles relating to the sovereignty of the people, what the state can and/or must do, and all the rest? In fact, there is serious discussion of simply dispensing with the Communist Party entirely. I wouldn't be the least surprised if those sections are removed in the not-too-distant future.

But, hey, thanks for the link. There's a reactionary website attached, mind you, but the State Department can't do everything, eh?

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

The role of the Communist Party in the political process is very different from what I had previously thought. The Cuban Communist Party is not an electoral party. It does not nominate or support candidates for office. Nor does it make laws or select the head of state. These roles are played by the national assembly, which is elected by the people, and for which membership in the Communist Party is not required. Most members of the national, provincial, and municipal assemblies are members of the Communist Party, but many are not, and those delegates and deputies who are party members are not selected by the party but by the people in the electoral process. The party is not open to anyone to join. About fifteen percent of adults are party members. Members are selected by the party in a thorough process that includes interviews with co-workers and neighbors. Those selected are considered model citizens. They are selected because they are viewed as strong supporters of the revolution; as hard and productive workers; as people who are well-liked and respected by their co-workers and neighbors; as people who have taken leadership roles in the various mass organizations of women, students, workers, and farmers; as people who take seriously their responsibilities as spouses and parents and family members; and as people who have "moral" lives, such as avoiding excessive use of alcohol or extramarital relations that are considered scandalous. The party is viewed as the vanguard of the revolution. It makes recommendations concerning the future development of the revolution, and it criticizes tendencies it considers counterrevolutionary.It has enormous influence in Cuba, but its authority is moral, not legal. The party does not make laws or elect the president. These tasks are carried out by the National Assembly, which is elected by the people.

---

from The Myth of Cuban Dictatorship

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

[QUOTE] Fidel Castro doesn't get any more rights than anyone else by virtue of being named in their sacred legal documents.

---

Oh that makes such good sense. And when the Constitution states that the Communist Party "is the highest leading force of society and of the state" that to does not confer any legal advantage?

quote:

---

The record of Cuban education is outstanding: universal school enrollment and attendance; nearly universal adult literacy; proportional female representation at all levels, including higher education; a strong scientific training base, particularly in chemistry and medicine; consistent pedagogical quality across widely dispersed classrooms; equality of basic educational opportunity, even in impoverished areas, both rural and urban. In a recent regional study of Latin America and the Caribbean, Cuba ranked first in math and science achievement, [UNESCO 1998] at all grade levels, among both males and females. In many ways, Cuba’s schools are the equals of schools in OECD countries, despite the fact that Cuba’s economy is that of a developing country...

The Cuban case demonstrates that high quality education is not simply a function of national income but of how that income is mobilized. A highly-mobilized people can realize high quality education by ensuring the necessary inputs, paying attention to equity, setting and holding staff to high professional standards, and caring for the social roles of key stakeholders—teachers, community members, children.

---

Former World Bank president James Wolfensohn and his vice president at the time admitted that Cuban socialism is a success while saying nothing about the neo-Liberal ideology that was failing at that point in Nicaragua and throughout Latin America.

Jeff, real democracy requires a well-educated, well-informed public owning the basic human right to see a doctor on a regular basis. It's clear to me and many others that this hasn't been the result or the intention of either Liberal capitalism or its political and economic successor ideology, neo-Liberal capitalism since the 1980's.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

The second question is more controversial, especially for people with a prejudiced view of Cuba, as you may know. Why don't you look up the National Assembly, find out the number of members, read a few things, and then share your views of this issue first and then I will reply as I'm able?

Jeff: If my argument is so weak, regarding Fidel Castro Ruz in the constitution, why don't you outline some of the rights and privileges conferred on Castro by virtue of this clause? I don't see how a description of their history confers anything. Clearly, it is interesting that the Cuban government has a legal duty to build socialism but beyond that you've proved nothing much at all.

Perhaps you'd like to actually read the remarks by Charles McKelvey, the Professor of Sociology at Presbyterian College in Clinton, South Carolina (The Myth of Cuban Dictatorship) and show me where he's got it wrong. Meanwhile, I think I will have a shower. It's a better use of my time.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff house:

Oh that makes such good sense. And when the Constitution states that the Communist Party "is the highest leading force of society and of the state" that to does not confer any legal advantage?.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Why don't you outline some of the rights and privileges conferred on Castro

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Papal Bull:

Well, he is an unelected dictator...

---

But you're right about Fidel, Fidel. By his public remarks I think he's really enjoying his current role as commentator. The wise old philosopher revolutionary. Who'd of thunk it?

I hope he keeps jabbing US imperialism in the eye with a red hot poker until he can't see anything himself. I've been reading some of his remarks - on Granma, on ZNEt and Monthly Review Webzine, - and I've been impressed with his thoughtfulness, self-deprecating humour (which is always a good sign in my books), and willingness to look at inscrutable problems in a new way. This man is 80 years old, at death's door, and he's still fighting and being creative.

One. of. a. kind.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Fidel Castro is just about as wise as the elder Somoza, or Stroessner, or any other Latin or Caribbean patriarch. Their words are given exaggerated respect by the faithful, because, at bottom, the faithful worship their power.

Typically, there will not be any specific reference to a particular brilliant thought or idea of the Leader; instead, we are simply asked to have reverence for The Old Man.

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
I've been impressed with his thoughtfulness, self-deprecating humour (which is always a good sign in my books), and willingness to look at inscrutable problems in a new way. This man is 80 years old, at death's door, and he's still fighting and being creative.

---

And one thing rarely mentioned - although strikingly obvious to anyone who has visited Cuba - is the complete absence of any "Fidel" personality cult. Che's image is everywhere, but there is no perfunctory homage to Fidel, no place names, etc.

Sounds just like the sinister concerns of an evil Commie dictator. yup.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

“Between 1945 and 2005 the United States has attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes... In the process, the U.S. caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.” William Blum (Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
the fact people approach tourists constantly on the street begging for a US dollar or two so they can go to the "dollar stores" where tourists and Communist party elite shop -.

---

The problem is that babble contains a number of people whose political ideology requires them to claim that Cuba is a democratic country (as they previously claimed that East Germany, the USSR, and Bulgaria were democratic countries.) So, instead of having informed discussions here, we have discussions about whether the Communist Party, named in the Constitution as the leading party, has any legal advantages there. Duh.

So, I have no objection whatever to people going to Cuba, anymore than I did to people going to Mexico under the PRI, or Paraguay under Stroessner, or, indeed, the USSR itself.

Unfortunately, it is very hard to learn very much from visiting Cuba. The beach will not educate you, and much of the rest of the reality of Cuba is occluded, protected by state security laws.

So, for example, one will seldom find any analysis from visitors to Cuba about how neighbourhood Committees in Defence of the Revolution are able to control the monthly rations each family receives; nor the fact that there is no process, besides begging, which will restore the ration, which is basic to life in Cuba. Thus, the Committees, which are subject to the Communist Party, have huge control over the lives of average Cubans, in a way Westerners are not trained to see.

Similarly, Westerners seldom understand the difficulty of protest, or even of thinking critically, in a country where no employment is possible except with the state. The Cuban government has moved a bit from that model, so a few small businesses are now allowed, but if you are a doctor or nurse, engineer, computer programmer, etc. etc. you can only work for the state. And the state WILL fire you if you open your mouth.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
I've been to Cuba. The main things that struck me was the fact that the infrastructure was completely broken down and about 50 years out of date, the fact people approach tourists constantly on the street begging for a US dollar or two so they can go to the "dollar stores" where tourists and Communist party elite shop - that way they might be able to buy some toilet paper (something you cannot buy in peso stores). Also, tourists get propositioned about a dozen times a day by prostitutes with professional jobs whose wages and standard of living are so low that they can make more money from one trick then they can from a whole month of teaching school.

---

And we have not had the most powerfull military in the world trying to overthrow us and inforcing a trade embargo.

quote:

---

And one thing rarely mentioned - although strikingly obvious to anyone who has visited Cuba - is the complete absence of any "Fidel" personality cult. Che's image is everywhere, but there is no perfunctory homage to Fidel, no place names, etc.

---

Which proves what exactly?

Tyranny has many faces. Not all tyrannies are based on a personality cult around the leader.

And even in his "retirement", the President and Commander in Chief still exercises a lot of influence, including his omnipresent "Reflections" in Cuban state media. In one of those "Reflections" Fidel Castro talks about being "consulted" on every major government decision.

However, Fidel Castro is NEVER criticized in the media in Cuba. He gets four hour speeches whenever he wants them, and schools, factories, and other workplaces close so he can have a guaranteed audience.

We have noted, above, that Fidel Castro is actually referred to by name in the Cuban Constitution. I think that is indicative of a cult of personality.

The great Cuban boxer T. Stevenson publicly disagreed with the old man, said that they were ignorant not treasonous, and as far as I can tell nobody's done anything to the boxer. Maybe Fidel is afraid of Stevenson's right hand that put so many Americans to sleep?

Unless he's got an official position in the state Castro has no authority to pass laws, etc. You guys keep skating over this like it's irrelevant or something. Of course he has influence. But a dictator?

Teófilo Stevenson - Not treason but ignorance.

Keep flinging that mud. Some is bound to stick eventually.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

However, Fidel Castro is NEVER criticized in the media in Cuba. He gets four hour speeches whenever he wants them, and schools, factories, and other workplaces close so he can have a guaranteed audience.

We have noted, above, that Fidel Castro is actually referred to by name in the Cuban Constitution. I think that is indicative of a cult of personality.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
I've been to Cuba. The main things that struck me ...

---

I've been to Toronto. The main things that struck me are the homeless in the streets, the police who gun down civilians, the gigantic gap between the rich and everyone else (there are actually people who earn hundreds of times more than an average worker!), the almost universal feeling by people that they have no real say or control over the municipal, provincial or federal policies, the fact that some people don't get needed dental care or pharmaceuticals because they actually charge for those things, the way the city is ghettoized between different nationalities and immigrant groups, the way White Male faces predominate in all positions of control, the recruitment ads for the armed forces showing glorified combat missions, ...

Oh, and I saw beautiful shops and restaurants and opera houses and even a hockey arena, but only people with lots of money to spend can go there more than a few times (maybe) in a lifetime.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff house:
He gets four hour speeches whenever he wants them, and schools, factories, and other workplaces close so he can have a guaranteed audience.

---

Oh big business wouldn't like that. Time off from the same-old same-old should be reserved for fire drills and company management speeches about how well the company is doing for the few years before declaring chapter bankruptcy. At which point the company big shots take off to Florida or California with the pension fund and put all the money and big homes in their wive's names to insulate the booty from a sue job by the workers. Or something like that.

quote:

---

It is true that Castro's cult is not so bad as was Hitler's, Stalin's or even those of Franco or Peron. But it is hardly absent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
Rule of thumb - any country that has the word "democratic" as part of it's proper name (as in "Democratic Kampuchea" or "German Democratic Republic") invariably is a brutal police state with no democracy whatsoever.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
Rule of thumb - any country that has the word "democratic" as part of it's proper name (as in "Democratic Kampuchea" or "German Democratic Republic") invariably is a brutal police state with no democracy whatsoever.

---

I'm sure the Bush crime family and organized crime said the same thing before the trillion dollar savings and loan scandal unfolded during Reagan's time. And we can be sure the Republican cabal and Democrat enablers cried freedom when the propaganda machine was laying down the pretext for bombing innocent women and children in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. And our own crooked liars in Ottawa were aiding the overthrow of a democratically-elected leader in Haiti. The rule of thumb with the cabal is, there is no rule of thumb. Chaos and warfiteering rein merrily.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

I should have named this thread, "CUBA CUBA FREE FOR ALL ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK UNMODERATED."

quote:

---

Would that apply to political parties also?

---

The NDP is a "brutal police state?" Who knew? No wonder it's so hard to sign up new members.

Seriously, here's an interesting analysis of Cuban "democracy" from a Marxist perspective:

quote:

---

So, everything seems to devolve upon the National Assembly itself. Here surely there must be real power? Unfortunately not. For the National Assembly itself also only meets for a few days each year; and in any case it devolves its powers on to a 37-member Council of State. Nor is this all, for the Council of State, in its turn, devolves its power to an 8-person Executive Committee.

It is this tightly-knit grouping that then appoints the 68 presidents and vice-presidents of the ministries, who together make up the Council of Ministers, and which, in its turn, appoints a 9-person executive. It is the ministers that take the actual decisions – all the time under the close scrutiny of the Executive of the Council of Ministers on the one hand, and the EC of the Council of State on the other. [15]

However it is not really a matter of ‘on the one hand ... on the other hand’ here, for an examination of the members of these top committees reveals that exactly the same personnel are involved in each of them. Furthermore they all turn out to be members of the Politburo of the Cuban Communist Party [16], in which capacity they have been ruling Cuba for many many years before ‘Popular Power’ came on to the scene. In other words the Politburo of the CP has been able to determine not only who does and who does not get elected to the organs of real power in Cuba, but has also ensured that those who got elected ... were themselves.

Not only does the bureaucratic centre of the Cuban CP have a stranglehold on the institutions of ‘Popular Power’, but the process itself has, not surprisingly, led to an overwhelming number of CP members on the various Assemblies themselves. For instance the National Assembly of Peoples Power contains no fewer than 96.7% of delegates who are members (including candidate members) of the CP and the Union of Communist Youth. [17] For a party of only a few hundred thousand, this might seem to be a pretty remarkable figure – if, that is, one accepts that ‘Popular Power’ is what it is purported to be.

So whichever way you look at it, all real power is in the hands of the CP. The institutions that directly connect with working class life, like the trade unions, are institutions for the control of the workers; the ‘mass organisations’ like the CDRs on the one hand have no power, and on the other have their leadership directly appointed by the central bureaucracy; and finally ‘Popular Power’, on closer examination, turns out to be not so much a method for producing power from below – in spite of its name – but rather a different institutional form for the continued rule of the centralised bureaucracy in the CP....

In these circumstances it is obvious how absurd it is for socialists to argue – as some do – that Cuba’s ‘mass organisations’ or the institutions of ‘Popular Power’ are signs of ‘The existence of a workers’ state with a revolutionary leadership’, the logical implications of which are ‘... that the Castro leadership team was superior to the Bolshevik leadership, once you leave aside Lenin, Trotsky, Sverdlov, and people like that’ [20]. To persist in such views can only lead to a continued weakening of the arguments for socialism. ‘Socialism’ without the self-emancipation of the working class is no kind of socialism at all – whether in Cuba or anywhere else.

---

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: John K ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff house:
We don't need the okay of the Politburo to post. That's one of the benefits of anti-communism.

---

Yes, and maybe Canada will allow freedom of speech on the internet like other developed nations.

quote:

---

“We have put together this site to educate Canadians about the sad state of our backwards libel laws and to raise funds for a series of lawsuits which we hope will set new precedents protecting our freedom of expression in the realm of political writings,” it says, going on: ...

---

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: jeff house ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff house:
Your support of Cuba's dictatorship is akin to farting right in everyone's faces.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: jeff house ]

---

And your deliberate ignorance of American imperialism in recent Latin American history is both chilling and offensive. Cuba's politics, as well as the near-do-well democratic capitalist countries in the Carribe and Central America, are directly related to U.S. Monroe doctrine attitudes. Point to one damn country in Latin America where U.S. managed democracy has produced any results worth a stale fart, Jeff.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

---

And your deliberate ignorance of American imperialism in recent Latin American history is both chilling and offensive.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff house:

I've been opposing American imperialism in Latin America before you were born, Cuba-stoogie.

---

So you've given up reprimanding the 800 pound gorilla wooley-bully in the schoolyard for attacking a small communist island nation in the viscinity where kids are in school all day and receiving vaccinations on a regular basis.

So tell us, when will the other half of Salvadoran kiddies get the chance to go school instead of rummaging around landfill sites filled with medical waste and excrement for capitalist trinkets to sell downtown ?. When will real people's democracy arrive in Guatemala or Chiapas ?. Or is the struggle for democracy more about the journey than actual results ?.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

---

I've been opposing American imperialism in Latin America before you were born, Cuba-stoogie.

---

Remembering Cuba's Sacrifice in Africa's Liberation

Everyone should remember that Cuba is a heroic little country that despite its poverty, has done more for the cause of freedom and the well being of the world's people than any other comparably sized nation.

quote:

---

The American misinformation system blots out history in an instant. Nelson Mandela is now recognized as a world statesman, with barely an acknowledgement that only 20 years ago, the U.S. was in league with the white South African regime that held Mandela in perpetual imprisonment, kept neighboring Namibia in chains, and invaded Angola to halt the process of African liberation. The heroes of the hour were the Cuban military, which crossed the Atlantic to halt the South African advance, drove the racists out of Angola, and set the stage for South Africa's exit from Namibia. The battle of Cuito Cuanavale was a turning point. Remember it.

---

And an important admonishment from South Africa's ambassador to Cuba:

quote:

---

"Today South Africa has many newly found friends. Yesterday these friends referred to our leaders and our combatants as terrorists and hounded us from their countries while supporting apartheid ... These very friends today want us to denounce and isolate Cuba. Our answer is very simple: it is the blood of Cuban martyrs - and not of these friends - that runs deep in the African soil and nurtures the tree of freedom in our country."

---

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: ceti ]

quote:

---

Anyone who has been to Cuba will tell you it is a country of grinding poverty that has been in a state of economic depression for the past 25 years. The standard of living might be SLIGHTLY better than in El Salvador, but it is wayyy poorer than Chile or Argentina or Uruguay...and the a poor person in Canada would be considered to be living like a king by Cuban standards. The vast majority of "working poor" in Canada can afford toilet paper and don't have to use leaves.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
Japan has virtually no natural resources and they are filthy rich - that is no excuse.

---

Hehehe.

In Canada, workers struggle to make ends meet.

Capitalists live high off the hog.

They both live in the same country - so what is the workers' excuse?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
If people are going to use Cuba's lack of natural resources as an excuse for that country's extreme poverty and low standard of living then why isn't Japan just as poor?

---

The fact that it became a fortress state to buttress the world against Communism in East Asia? I mean, the massive influx of money in the post-WWII days accounts for that.

quote:

---

The fact that it became a fortress state to buttress the world against Communism in East Asia? I mean, the massive influx of money in the post-WWII days accounts for that.

---

quote:

---

If people are going to use Cuba's lack of natural resources as an excuse for that country's extreme poverty and low standard of living then why isn't Japan just as poor?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
If people are going to use Cuba's lack of natural resources as an excuse for that country's extreme poverty and low standard of living then why isn't Japan just as poor?

---

Japan was considered another front line state in the battle against the red menace. Japan was provided most favoured nation trade status and massive amounts of aid as was west Germany, the original flashpoint for spread of socialism to the west at a time when capitalism was flat on its ass as per usual. The west was afraid the Japanese would revert to their "socialist ways." And Japan's car and electronics industries have been kicking the west in the ass ever since. GM and Ford could possibly compete with unionized Toyota workers but not with Japan. And with private group health insurance adding a $1000 bucks to the price of a Dodge and Ranger, who wants to compete with socialized medicine?: A: not the Yanks, they'd rather go down with the ideology.

Capitalist crises have led to world war, or wars of aggression on several occasions in recent history.

Why are there still 350 million Indians in that democratic capitalist country going to bed hungry every night of their miserable lives ?. Just 25 years ago, there 500 million chronically hungry human beans in the developing free market world. With more cash crop capitalism than at any point in history, today there are 800 million chronically hungry people. Let's face it, people, Liberal capitalism is a monumental failure. Middle class consumer capitalism based on oil consumption is a dead end for humanity.

"Socialism or barbarism" It seems Canada's largest trade partners have already chosen.

[ 17 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

So? Russia saw Cuba as a fortress state to buttress the world against capitalism in the Americas and they pumped in trillions of dollars in subsidy...the economy in Cuba is still a shambles PLUS there are no civil rights.

---

excerpt:

quote:

---

The first stirrings for democracy in Cuba date back to October 10, 1868 when the fight for independence from Spain began. In this struggle for power, slaves became part of the fight for the first time as political and social emancipation were intertwined. At Guaymaro, in the eastern part of the island, a group of 15 delegates drafted the first democratic constitution.

Meanwhile the United States had its own ideas about the particular forms democracy should take in Cuba. In the first "humanitarian intervention" in its history, US imperialism intervened in Cuba in order to thwart the ambitions of the sickly Spanish empire. Its goal was to bring Cuba and its rich resources under its own control using the excuse of Spanish depravity.

In order to safeguard its economic interests, a "two-party" system proved useful. Enlisting the support of the Cuban upper class, two electoral parties were imposed on the Cuban people based on "reform" and "stability." They traded places periodically when one or the other became too unpopular. The mafia, as depicted in the great movie "Godfather Part 2," was another important financial base for the two parties.

This system persisted from 1895 to 1959 when Fidel Castro decided that the essence of democracy was not being respected. He struggled to empower ordinary workers and farmers, who would provide the new social base of the revolution. After nearly sixty years of a "multi-party" system, the Cuban people were not anxious to set up a carbon copy of what they had just overthrown. They voted with their bodies and their guns.

Within the parameters of the socialist revolution, there were important measures to institutionalize democracy including elections. The 1974 electoral laws were primarily responsible for giving shape to the voting procedures that August writes about. In particular, August examined the operations of municipal elections in the period from June 1997 to February, 1998.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
Much of Latin America is electing leftwing governments because they are having something Cuba has never had - an election.

---

Most of Latin America is swinging to the left because past elections were rigged and leftist opposition on an army hit list in several Latin American countries with U.S.-backed dictatorships.

What we're seeing today isn't the norm by any means. The Pentagon and U.S. military are way over-budget in yet another war of aggression. The likes of another Vietnam is occurring with the same potential to cause inflation and economic disaster as when U.S. feds printed money to fund the doctor and madman's bombing of Cambodia and Vietnam. Still the empire has scrounged enough money to extend offers of aid and weapons deals to Latin America's militaries - the same militaries that have provided the CIA with the means and corruptible people to prop up neo-colonialists in those countries in the fight to stave off domino effect.

An easy-breezy six point plan for the world's only remaining rogue superpower to create an environment for democracy in their own backyard:

1. Close down the notorious U.S. Army School of the Americas the world's foremost school for the export of terror and torture
   
2. Close Gitmo Bay's torture gulags and remove the military presence, all representing a threat to democracy
   
3. Release the Cuban Five Anti-terrorists held in American gulags, the largest gulag population in the world
   
4. Extradite Luis Posada Carriles and other murderers because, “If You Harbor Terrorists, You Are a Terrorist”
   
5. Bring an end to the dated cold war embargo nonsense as a gesture of good will toward all democratic nations, not just Cuba.
   
6. Put the kibosh to the CIA agenda of trying to murder and overthrow popular socialist leaders of foreign countries, with several attempts in this decade

quote:

---

According to estimates, the reduction in income for the poorest populations could reach 6.3%. The fall in earnings — with respect to the gross domestic product — would be particularly negative for Eritrea, Tajikistan, Lesotho, Gambia, Yemen, Senegal, Armenia, Mozambique, Nigeria and Honduras.

"In countries like Nicaragua, a 40% increase in cereal prices would be sufficient to cause the disappearance of the 2% of the population that is living in extreme poverty," the reports authors affirm.

---

That's the disappearance of 2% of the population of Nicaragua. Eritrea, Senegal, Armenia or Egypt may be next. Ain't capitalism grand?

quote:

---

That's the disappearance of 2% of the population of Nicaragua. Eritrea, Senegal, Armenia or Egypt may be next. Ain't capitalism grand?

---

quote:

---

Castro: Nobody better than Leonard Wood himself to describe what the Platt Amendment would mean for Cuba in two sections of a confidential letter to his fellow in the adventure, Theodore Roosevelt, dated on October 28, 1901:

"There is, of course, little or no independence left Cuba under the Platt Amendment. (…) the only consistent thing to do now is to seek annexation. This, however, will take some time, and during the period which Cuba maintains her own government, it is most desirable that she should be able to maintain such a one as will tend to her advancement and betterment. She cannot make certain treaties without our consent (…) and must maintain certain sanitary conditions (…), from all of which it is quite apparent that she is absolutely in our hands, and I believe that no European government for a moment considers that she is otherwise than a practical dependency of the United States, and as such is certainly entitled to our consideration. (…) With the control which we have over Cuba, a control which will soon undoubtedly become possession, (…) we shall soon practically control the sugar trade of the world. (…) the island will (…) gradually become Americanized and we shall have in time one of the richest and most desirable possessions in the world."

---

Castro provides an astonishingly detailed and thorough history of this affront to Cuban sovereignty over the centuries by US imperialism.

Right up to the present.

quote:

---

Castro: All kinds of aggressions have come from the Naval Base:

# Dropping of inflammable materials over free territory from planes flying out of the Base.
# Provocations by American soldiers, including insults, the throwing of stones and cans filled with inflammable materials and the firing of pistols and automatic weapons.
# Violations of Cuban jurisdictional waters and Cuban territory by American military vessels and aircraft from the Base.
# Plans for self-aggression on the Base that would provoke a large-scale armed struggle between Cuba and the United States.
# Registering the radio frequencies used at the Base in the International Frequency Registry in the space corresponding to Cuba.

On January 12, 1961, the worker Manuel Prieto Gómez who had been employed at the Base for more than 3 years was savagely tortured by Yankee soldiers on the Guantanamo Naval Base, for the "crime" of being a revolutionary.

On October 15 of that same year, the Cuban worker Rubén López Sabariego was tortured and subsequently murdered.

On June 24, 1962, Rodolfo Rosell Salas, a fisherman from Caimanera, was murdered by soldiers at the Base.

---

And on and on and on and on. I won't provide the whole list of US atrocities. It's too long.

quote:

---

Also in 1994, the well-known migration crisis was produced as a result of the tightening up of the blockade and the tough years of the Special Period, the non-compliance with the Migratory Agreement of 1984 signed with the Reagan Administration, the considerable reduction in the number of visas granted and the encouragement of illegal emigration, including the Cuban Adjustment Act signed by President Johnson more than four decades ago.

As a result of the crisis created, a declaration made by President Clinton on August 19, 1994 transformed the Base into a migratory concentration camp for the Cuban rafters, in numbers close to 30,000.

Finally, on September 9, 1994 a Joint Communiqué was signed by the Clinton administration and the Cuban government. This saw the United States committing to prevent the entry into its territory of intercepted illegal emigrants and to issue a minimum of 20,000 annual visas for safety travel to the United States.

On May 2, 1995, as part of the migratory negotiations, the governments of Cuba and the United States also agreed what on this occasion was called a Joint Declaration establishing the procedure for returning to Cuba all those who continued trying to illegally migrate to the United States and were intercepted by the U.S. Coast Guard.

Notice the specific reference to the illegal emigrants intercepted by the Coast Guards. Thus the basis had been laid of a sinister business: the traffic of persons. The Murderous Act was maintained, thus turning Cuba into the only country in the world subjected to such harassment. While approximately 250 thousand people have safely traveled to that country, an incalculable number of women, children and people of all ages have lost their lives as a result of the prosperous traffic of emigrants.

---

It's important to understand that much of the migration crisis has been a direct result of US provocations and so on. It's the result of a situation that the US regime over the years, whether "liberals" like Clinton or "conservatives" like Bush, have deliberately created.

quote:

---

Castro: On January 8, 2002 the United States officially informed Cuba that they would be using the Guantanamo Naval Base as a detention center for Afghan war prisoners.

Three days later, on January 11, 2002, the first 20 detainees arrived, and the figure reached the number of 776 prisoners coming from 48 countries. Of course none of these data were mentioned. We assumed they were Afghan war prisoners. The first planes were landing full of prisoners, and many more guards than prisoners. On the same day, the government of Cuba issued a public declaration indicating its willingness to cooperate with medical assistance services as required, clean-up programs and a fight against mosquitoes and pests in the area surrounding the base which is under our control, or any other useful, constructive and humane measure that might come up. I remember the data because I was personally involved in details concerning the Note presented by the MINREX in response to the United States Note. We were very far from imagining at that moment that the U.S. government was getting ready to create a horrendous torture center at that base.

---

Wait, there's more coming!

quote:

---

After the Proclamation to the People of Cuba was made public on July 31, 2006, the U.S. authorities have declared that they do not hope for a migration crisis but that they are pre-emptively preparing to face one, with the use of the Guantanamo Naval Base as a concentration camp for illegal migrants intercepted in the high seas being a consideration. In public declarations, information reveals that the United States is expanding its civilian buildings on the Base with the aim of increasing their capacity to receive the illegal emigrants.

---

Apparently, using Guantanamo as a torture centre isn't enough for the good old USA.

quote:

---

The symbolic annual payment of $3,386.25 for the lease of the territory occupied by the Guantanamo Naval Base was maintained until 1972 when the Americans adjusted it themselves to $3,676. In 1973, a new adjustment was made for the value of the old U.S. Gold dollar, and for that reason the cheque issued by the Treasury Department was since then increased to $4,085.00 each year. That cheque is charged to the United States Navy, the party responsible for operations at the Naval Base.

The cheques issued by the government of the United States, as payment for the lease, are in the name of the "Treasurer General of the Republic of Cuba", an institution and official who, many years ago, have ceased to function within the structure of the Government of Cuba. This cheque is sent on a yearly basis, through diplomatic channels. The one for 1959, due to a mere confusion, was entered into the national budget. Since 1960 until today these cheques have not been cashed and they are proof of the lease that has been imposed for more than 107 years. I would imagine, conservatively, that this is ten times less than what the United States government spends on the salary of a schoolteacher each year.

Both the Platt Amendment and the Guantanamo Naval Base were unnecessary. History has shown that in a great number of countries in this hemisphere where there has not been a revolution, their entire territory, governed by the multinationals and the oligarchies, needs neither one nor the other. Advertising took care of their mostly ill-trained and poverty-stricken populations by creating reflexes.

From the military point of view, a nuclear aircraft carrier, with so many fast fighter-bombers and escort ships supported by technology and satellites, is several times more powerful and can move to any point on the globe, wherever the empire needs it the most.

The Base is needed to humiliate and to carry out the filthy deeds that take place there. If we must await the downfall of the system, we shall wait. The suffering and danger for all humanity shall be great, like today's stock market crisis, and a growing number of people forecast it. Cuba shall always be waiting in a state of combat readiness.

---

Naughty, bad, bad dictator! Go to your room! No dessert for you!

The Empire and the Independent Island - Fidel Castro Ruz

[ 18 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

In an informative article, Cuban "dictator" Fidel Castro Ruz outlines how the United States appropriated territory on the Island of Cuba for its own nefarious military needs. We know today that those "needs" include torturing the victims of the US Empire, who are brought to the concentration camp at Guatanamo without the most elementary human rights for an indefinite period of time.

quote:

---

quote:

---

"There is, of course, little or no independence left Cuba under the Platt Amendment. (…) the only consistent thing to do now is to seek annexation. This, however, will take some time, and during the period which Cuba maintains her own government, it is most desirable that she should be able to maintain such a one as will tend to her advancement and betterment. She cannot make certain treaties without our consent (…) and must maintain certain sanitary conditions (…), from all of which it is quite apparent that she is absolutely in our hands, and I believe that no European government for a moment considers that she is otherwise than a practical dependency of the United States, and as such is certainly entitled to our consideration. (…) With the control which we have over Cuba, a control which will soon undoubtedly become possession, (…) we shall soon practically control the sugar trade of the world. (…) the island will (…) gradually become Americanized and we shall have in time one of the richest and most desirable possessions in the world."

---

[ 18 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

This, despite the fact that countries such ours and the US, which have in abundance Stockholm's Golden Mean Of Freedom can in no way be considered to be ruled by the people. People like Stockholm and George Bush seem unable to grasp the fact that our systems of free, fair, multi-party elections were designed to be quite the opposite or free and fair. They aren't organic, or natural, or ideal forms of governance, but rather machines designed to entrench the rule of the wealthy while giving the proles the illusion of participation.

Ask yourselves, O defenders of democracy, when the last time immensely powerful Cabinet officials of a US President were elected to that position.

Then ask yourselves when Canadians agreed to send troops to invade and occupy two of the poorest nations on earth.

He appreciates his standard of living is dependent on more peoples being oppressed and exploited so that their national resources can be extracted to provide him with additional low-cost salad shooters and brand name running shoes.

He appreciates the illusion of democracy is preferable to the reality of a Batista because people who voluntarily accept poverty and subservience to empire produce cheaper material goods than those for whom the expense of an expeditionary force or military regime is required.

Then again, the devil does need his advocate.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

Sralin, Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Il Sung (to name a few) each brought in policies that led to the deaths of tens of millions of their citizens by starvation. Ain't communism grand?

---

quote:

---

I haven't seen a single post where Stockholm is saying 'go America! We love torturing Cubans up here in Canada!'

---

quote:

---

Accusing him of being a tool of imperialism is unfair and no different than someone trying to do a red scare and route out a bunch of people who there is little evidence about leaning towards Communism.

---

quote:

---

I think it is rather strange that you are so quick to paint Stockholm and other's in this fashion. Such a fast, knee-jerk reaction simply points to an underpinning of shame knowing that defending such a regime is really a fruitless endeavour and that the sad, sad truth of this is just dawning upon you.

---

quote:

---

Stockholm merely sings the song he was taught to sing as a beneficiary of the exploitation of others. He appreciates our wealth is extracted and provided to us at the expense and suffering of other peoples. Many of them in so-called liberal "democracies".
He appreciates his standard of living is dependent on more peoples being oppressed and exploited so that their national resources can be extracted to provide him with additional low-cost salad shooters and brand name running shoes.

He appreciates the illusion of democracy is preferable to the reality of a Batista because people who voluntarily accept poverty and subservience to empire produce cheaper material goods than those for whom the expense of an expeditionary force or military regime is required.

Stockholm, like many liberals, prefer empire-lite, when they can get it, but can just as easily apologize for and defend Empire full strength when the empire-lite just won't put the logo on the plastic.

---

And I'm just throwing this out there, the vehement defences of the indefensible are clearly a cover for some sort of lacking confidence in these regimes. I've seen it quite often from many people who stand in positions which are clearly assailable. It becomes rather silly, like a person who believes some sort of very strange religious doctrine and attempts to defend it in the face of voluminous mountains of evidence either way.

Also, perhaps I just think in a slightly less consumerist thought pattern, but I can hardly see the similarities between the choice of soap and liberal democracy.

quote:

---

fm, these conspiracy theories are completely out of line. Stockholm is hardly able to be an effective double agent. He really just represents mainline intellectual thoughts, and I hear this come from a lot of the NDP. It is a reality, this board is FAR to the left and c'est la vie.

---

quote:

---

It becomes rather silly, like a person who believes some sort of very strange religious doctrine and attempts to defend it in the face of voluminous mountains of evidence either way.

---

See, you do get it.

quote:

---

Also, perhaps I just think in a slightly less consumerist thought pattern, but I can hardly see the similarities between the choice of soap and liberal democracy.

---

quote:

---

Oh, but then again, I love to see people who just need to claim the whackiest and most 'out-there' beliefs in order to set themselves apart from their fellows and it becomes a sort of 'I'm leftier than thou' pissing contest. It is quite humorous, just like when you see social conservative trying to out do each other.

---

My argument is very simple. We live in an empire, you, me, Stockholm, all of us, sustained through the exploitation of other peoples and the degradation of their environment. Without their resources, are empire's economy would grind to a halt. Thus we need them, and we get them, through whatever means.

The empire, at home, provides the illusion of political choice, uses the media to conflate the concept of political choice with consumer choice, purchases our support and allegiance with consumer choice and a sense of material comfort, even at the expense of social comfort, and manufactures our consent for the foreign conquests that become necessary to sustain the empire with resources.

This isn't a conspiracy. It is fact. The face of the world is poor, brown, and dispossessed. You just can't see it through the glare of your television screen.

[ 18 August 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

quote:

---

This isn't a conspiracy. It is fact. The face of the world is poor, brown, and dispossessed. You just can't see it through the glare of your television screen.

---

quote:

---

The shadow guv isn't quite as sure about Latin America as you are, Stockholmer.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:

I'm NOT "sure" about Latin America. That's why we need an election to find out what the people want.

---

Sure thing, right after enough "Liberal" Democrats vote to close the U.S. Army School for the Export of Terror and Torture to Latin America. (Gehlen's people had some input to the now declassified how-to manuals for terror, torture, extortion and general brutalizing of men women and children in Latin America. sieg heil yer fascist scumbags!)

Right after the torture gulags are shutdown at Gitmo Bay Cuba and U.S. military stops menacing democracy with illegal occupation of the island.

And right after former U.S.-backed Guatemalan dictator Juan Efrain Rios Montt is strung up by the nuts might any stooge of imperialism possibly be taken seriously about U.S. Managed Elections anywhere in Latin America and beyond.

[ 18 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Fidel and Raul are the brains in jars wagering "Quatloos" on their thralls, a.k.a. the disenfranchised Cuban people.

[ 18 August 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

---

Stockholmer, unlike U.S. citizens, you own the personal freedom and privilege to travel to Cuba and ask them if they want U.S. managed elections.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fidel:
Ah! Apparently the Wiz' is not familiar with the grinding poverty in any of Uncle Sam's friendlies close by.

---

Here's a quote from one of them.

quote:

---

The Cuban political system is based on a foundation of local elections. Each urban neighborhood and rural village and area is organized into a "circumscription," consisting generally of 1000 to 1500 voters. The circumscription meets regularly to discuss neighborhood or village problems. Each three years, the circumscription conducts elections, in which from two to eight candidates compete. The nominees are not nominated by the Communist Party or any other organizations. The nominations are made by anyone in attendance at the meetings, which generally have a participation rate of 85% to 95%. Those nominated are candidates for office without party affiliation. They do not conduct campaigns as such. A one page biography of all the candidates is widely-distributed. The nominees are generally known by the voters, since the circumscription is generally not larger than 1500 voters. If no candidate receives 50% of the votes, a run-off election is held. Those elected serve as delegates to the Popular Councils, which are intermediary structures between the circumscription and the Municipal Assembly. Those elected also serve simultaneously as delegates to the Municipal Assembly. The delegates serve in the Popular Councils and the Municipal Assemblies on a voluntary basis without pay, above and beyond their regular employment.

---

What we in Canada, and the poor bastards in the USA, have come to accept as "democracy" is a farce in which a group of candidates all compete in a contest of skillful liars in which the best liar wins. It is so stupid that huge numbers of people cannot be bothered to vote. The private media is in on this joke. We call this horseshit "democracy". The Cubans have successfully avoided this crap and, good for them, they still have a socialist country. Their governments are mandated, constitutionally, to build socialism. If that sticks in the craw of some people, too bad.

If people have venomous hatred of socialism then just say so. Enough of this garbage that the Cubans don't have democracy. They just don't put up with the three-ring (much of Canada), or two-ring (much of the USA) circus that passes for democracy in our country.

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
If people have venomous hatred of socialism then just say so. Enough of this garbage that the Cubans don't have democracy.

---

Well said.

One would think that on a progressive board, it would be possible to have an actual discussion about the economic form of organization, the dangers and challenges that Cuba faces, etc., without having to cloak it under a debate about old canards.

I'm no expert (not even close) on the situation, so I was wondering what others think of this article on CD's website:

Pedro Campos Santos

Articles (in Spanish) by the author

I may be mistaken but it looks like a Trotskyist site. Not that it matters. Anyone know enough Spanish to give us the titles in English? That might be helpful.

[ 19 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
When was it written?

---

It says 29.09.2006 in the Spanish version from your link, but maybe that's just when it was posted? Don't know.

quote:

---

It reads like part of an internal debate in Cuba. Where's the rest of the debate?

---

Good question - that's one of the things I hoped others could help answer!

quote:

---

I may be mistaken but it looks like a Trotskyist site. Not that it matters.

---

Now you're challenging me to think back decades so I can tell the difference.

But does it matter that there's an item, posted today, which appears to be a joint statement by the Communist Parties of Canada, U.S., Mexico, and some other socialist party of Mexico, about the upcoming SPP summit? Link.

quote:

---

Anyone know enough Spanish to give us the titles in English? That might be helpful.

---

Oh man. Any key words I should look for to tell me which "flavour" of communism or socialism this is?

ETA: I did a Google search for "site:kaosenlared.net trotsky" and it came up with 331 hits. Sounds pretty discouraging, eh? Just kidding.

[ 19 August 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

What we in Canada, and the poor bastards in the USA, have come to accept as "democracy" is a farce in which a group of candidates all compete in a contest of skillful liars in which the best liar wins.

---

Then I assume that this means that you oppose the fact that we have elections in Canada and that you wish Canada were a one party state like Cuba where anyone who opposes the government gets sent to jail. That's fine. I may not agree with you, but i will fight for your right to say it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stockholm:
I may not agree with you, but i will fight for your right to say it.

---