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Author Topic: Strip clubs recruit student bodies
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 10 September 2003 12:04 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Strip clubs recruit student bodies

quote:
(CNN) -- A chain of strip clubs is offering to pay tuition for co-eds who work as strippers -- and keep up their grade-point averages.

With classes beginning this week, a full-page color ad, featuring a voluptuous blonde and the promise "We pay your tuition," appeared on the back cover of The Lance, the student newspaper at the University of Windsor in Ontario.

"A girl who wants to better herself, who wants to progress, makes for a higher level entertainer," said Robert Katzman, who is recruiting talent for his adult clubs in Windsor and in Detroit, Michigan. "They're happier young ladies. They're doing something with their lives."



Finally someone is doing something about high tuition costs.

[ 10 September 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 10 September 2003 11:03 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't wait till there's an epidemic of prostitution in response to high tuition fees. Then the social conservatives will show their breathaking hypocrisy by blasting the women and men who do it to pay for university even though they are playing by the "meritocratic" rules of "get ahead however you can".

Oh, wait. I forgot.

Getting ahead by breaking the law is only permitted for rich white male CEOs.

MY BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 10 September 2003 11:23 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
MY BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

...he said sheepishly...


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 10 September 2003 11:32 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I walked into that one.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bobbie k
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posted 11 September 2003 09:15 AM      Profile for bobbie k        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I wonder sometimes is how do former sex-trade workers explain to their prospective friends, employers, in-laws, spouses, etc., what they did during their student days for summer jobs? Do they say "Oh, I worked as a stripper. It was a great job!" "OK, then. See ya later" would be most people's reply, or worse yet "So why don't we meet for a drink after my wife leaves to visit out-of-town relatives?"

When young people get involved in the sex trade, (I couldn't help but notice that they, well, the women, are usually very young when they get involved) surely they don't understand the ramifications of this for their lives in their 30's 40's 50's etc. when they might want to do boring things like get married, have kids, work at a rewarding job and so on. They probably just think it's a blast right now. So a bunch of men make a bunch of money selling young women to other men, and the women go on to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives. This is a pattern, right? Men benefit, women live with consequences....???


From: Antigonish, Nova Scotia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 11 September 2003 09:33 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
surely they don't understand the ramifications of this for their lives

Avoiding judgmental fools will mitigate many of the 'ramifications' of which you speak.


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
bobbie k
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posted 11 September 2003 10:19 AM      Profile for bobbie k        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well excuse me for being a "judgemental fool" but I couldn't help but notice that the practice of taking your clothing off in front of groups of people and providing sexual favours in return for payment has been frowned upon for quite some time. It puts a person, I presume, in a bit of a bind when they're out there in the world of ordinary folk afterward trying to explain about how they have done those things in the past. Granted this is pure supposition on my part. I have no direct experience. Feel free to educate me. I am a believer in the adage "Minds work best when they're open."
From: Antigonish, Nova Scotia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 11 September 2003 12:30 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's like a tattoo on a personal area of your body, if you don't want to show it you don't. I was fired from a job once, and you would be surprised at how little it comes up in conversation now.
From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
bobbie k
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posted 11 September 2003 12:43 PM      Profile for bobbie k        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sure, that's easy! Don't show it if you don't want to. Just make excuses and lie to the people you love so you can hold onto them. Just develop some kind of split personality in order to erase part of your history, which incidentally, is a fairly significant part of who you are as an individual. Oh, alright, if that won't work, you can only tell certain people who aren't "judgemental fools" and then they can lie to everyone who is important to them about your past, or choose to "out" you and watch the doo-doo hit that fan, or whatever. They won't mind...really. (By the way, a secret is something that is told to one person at a time.)

I'm sorry, but I'm having difficulty with this. I've always wondered about it. I've always thought about it when I've heard or read about a homosexual person coming out of the closet. They talk about how unbearable it was to lie to the people they care about and what a relief it was to start being who they really are. They talk about how it trapped them in all kinds of self-destructive behaviours like drinking, taking drugs, etc. My next thought always is, so how do ex-sex trade workers handle this? Do they have the same sort of issues.

Curiously yours... bobbie k


From: Antigonish, Nova Scotia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Skye
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posted 11 September 2003 12:50 PM      Profile for Skye     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It may not come up in everyday conversation. However, it would certainly come up if one was to get involved politically I think. Actually, they would probably have a hard time within certain professions like being a teacher etc.

I think it is unfortunate that we judge people in this way, however, I think that we have to acknowledge that people that do this work invite themselves into a seedier sub-culture that is definately outside the norm.


From: where "labor omnia vincit" is the state motto | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 11 September 2003 12:55 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you read the sex-advice column in Eye ("Love Bites", if I remember correctly). It's a kick-ass column that makes Dan Savage look like a beginner, and the columnist, Sasha, is an ex-stripper. She makes no bones about it, and appears to be entirely unashamed of her past. I get the sense than anyone who disapproves of her past is welcome to kiss her ass (perhaps after tucking a 20 in her back pocket first!)

Personally, I always wonder about people with extensive and visible tattooing. At my bank there used to be a woman with a horrid, blotchy, homemade jailhouse/biker tattoo on her forearm (you could occassionally see it through sheer sleeves). She'd made it as far as the reception desk, career-wise, but I suspect she'd probably hit her ceiling. And what about people who got Ren and Stimpy tattoos? Or Darth Maul? Or even Calvin and Hobbes? I've always wanted to publish a coffee table book called "Regrettable Tattoos"... but I digress.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 11 September 2003 01:33 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bobbie k I don't know you well enough to call you a judgmental fool. The fools in question are the hypothetical "prospective friends, employers, in-laws, spouses, etc." who say "OK, then. See ya later" when they find out *gasp* you worked as a stripper. I have no doubt such fools exist, but I'm not sure they are in the majority and in any case such fools aren't worth anyones time worrying about.

[ 11 September 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
bobbie k
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posted 11 September 2003 02:11 PM      Profile for bobbie k        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok JimmyBrogan, thanks for clarifying that. No offense taken. But you know, I think it's a gross over-simplification to say that one can just choose not to associate with judgemental fools if one has a particular history and then life will roll along just tickety-boo.

People usually fall in love or enter into various situations by accident, not always having the power to plan each detail of who we will end up entangled with or where we end up working, living, etc. We just find ourselves sometimes in situations that we then have to manage and make a life out of. How many 18-year-olds or 20 year-olds are able to understand that and predict how well their history is going to wear over the next few decades? Few, I suspect...very few.

So sure, as Mr. Magoo points out, you've got your screw-you-if-you-don't-like-who-I-am types who may do just fine for all we know, but how does this play out for your average woman? That's my central question. And it is your average woman these sex trade operators seem to be going after in this appeal for university students, isn't it? You don't suppose they'll warn the "girls" who apply that not everybody in their future will be comfy with this little piece of their history, and this might have negative impacts on their mental health, do you? Is this generally how the sex trade works, I wonder? It would be a great topic for a book, eh? ...."The Ugly Underbelly of the Seedy Side of Town", or "Wanna Make Some Easy Money Sweetheart?"


From: Antigonish, Nova Scotia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 11 September 2003 02:37 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think by the time a woman is in college or university, she probably doesn't need to read the fine print to know that in the future she might not want to talk about her sex-trade experience with potential employers or husbands. Or maybe she might want to. The point is, college-aged women are old enough to make up their own minds.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bobbie k
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posted 11 September 2003 03:01 PM      Profile for bobbie k        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even when they're only 18 or 20 years old?
From: Antigonish, Nova Scotia | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 11 September 2003 03:29 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, of course. In most places they are old enough to get married, enlist in the army, get a gun permit, smoke, drink (at least in Québec and all other Western societies not influenced by USian inspired puritanism), etc.

That does not mean they are not "young and stupid". But whom among us hasn't done things at that age that he or she didn't regret later. Part of growing up.

One of the main problems here is the crippling rise in tuition costs and student debt. There are few things a young person can do that aren't illegal or at least a bit shady to earn the type of money putting one's self through university costs now.

The strip club scene is seedy and often dangerous, because of mob and biker gang involvement in the scene, and the outright sex trade (in the sense of prostitution) even more so because of the added risk from clients.

I don't think nudity per se has much to do with it. I was a fine arts student when I was young, and many if not most of us posed nude for life classes, but the context was very different. And a lot of "stripping" now is really practically outright prostitution, with "table dances" and "booths", etc.

But that doesn't give anyone the right to be judgemental about what people did when they were young, if they didn't hurt anyone else.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 11 September 2003 07:55 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This article reminds me of those "Girls Gone Wild" videos advertised on late night TV - that depict young partygoing college women exposing themselves or engaging in other sexual acts. Except they do it sometimes for as little as a free t-shirt.

I don't dispute that it's a woman's choice to do such a thing, and I won't stand in judgement of her either.

But it sickens me to think of the creepy guy who owns the GGW franchise, or in this case, this surely already well-off Detroit/Windsor club owner Katzman, who stand to make a fortune off of exploiting the young woman while she at best takes home a few extra bucks for school.

[ 11 September 2003: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 11 September 2003 08:01 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't like it either. So what are you doing to fight high tuition costs and for the nationalisation of private universities? You live in a town with two famous universities, but tuition there costs more than I earn in a year.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 11 September 2003 09:36 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I attend one of those two universities (Harvard) and when I graduate I am going to owe more than the cost of a house.

Skye88 is working right now to support the two of us (fortunately not as a stripper), but her income barely keeps a roof over our heads in this housing market, much less covers my schooling costs. So we just keep borrowing and hope that when I graduate we'll be able to pay it back. Note that both of us come from working-to-middle class backgrounds so there is no trust fund to draw from.

The Law School does offer a pretty good income-contingent student loan repayment plan for those of us going to work in "public interest" jobs when we graduate, but I agree that a publicly funded system would be far superior. I am not sure what I could do to "work towards" that, though, since the private educational model is pretty entrenched here and nationalizing Harvard is simply not on the political radar screen.

Also, I did turn down many cheaper Canadian law schools to come here, so I can see how the private model can offer some advantages, at least to those of us who are fortunate and risk-tolerant enough to get here.

I am not aware of any of my classmates working as strippers, though. Even among the ones doing this all on loans like me.

I think this tuition payment scheme is a gimmick. It's not really about the high cost of education forcing women into the sex trade. It's about hawking "young nubile coeds" to old dirty men. The young women workers go along with this for a variety of reasons.

The CNN article is just free advertising for Katzman. He'll bring in far more customers and cash from this than he'll ever pay out for his employees' schooling.

I wonder, though, whether Katzman would put his daughter to work in the club before paying for her tuition?

[ 11 September 2003: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
R. J. Dunnill
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posted 12 September 2003 03:38 PM      Profile for R. J. Dunnill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What I wonder sometimes is how do former sex-trade workers explain to their prospective friends, employers, in-laws, spouses, etc., what they did during their student days for summer jobs?

Unless these prospective contacts were religious conservatives, would it really matter?

I've known a few XXX performers of both sexes, and they seem quite happy with their choice of occupation. Some are surprisingly well-educated, too.

One of them is originally from BC, and has since retired as a performer after a ten-year stint (she still works as a director). When I once quipped "oh well, it's a living," she retorted, "A very GOOD living."

RD

[ 12 September 2003: Message edited by: R. J. Dunnill ]


From: Surrey, B.C. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged

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