[ 27 July 2004: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]

One could easily say: "Soldiers. Making the world safe for those who don't believe in war."

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Originally posted by Michelle:
SLB, that's rather self-congratulatory.

One could easily say: "Soldiers. Making the world safe for those who don't believe in war."

I've never liked that argument much, that whole, "We're doing it for you, and you don't appreciate it." I'm not a feminist for Hailey's sake. I'm a feminist for my own sake. If Hailey happens to benefit, whatever. If Hailey decides that she doesn't want to benefit and she'd rather live in a traditional way, whatever.

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Um. I have to differ here. I don't think that that argument is "self"-congratulatory at all. If you are thinking in purely individualist terms, then maybe that's a way of reading it ... although I can't quite see that.

Anyway, that logic is also the basis of the labour-union movement, and it is the antithesis of individualism. It simply is true, and it works both ways: benefits for one really do require benefits for all, and benefits for all will benefit even those people who aren't in unions. Same is true of any collective movement, any social movement.

I hate war and militarism, but I can't see that it is untrue that soldiers make the world safer for the rest of us, or at least that is the idea in theory. Picking the wrong war: that is a political problem.

[ 27 July 2004: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]

We'll need decorations, punch, music, and guests, at the very least...And a location?

Shall we have a Pin the Vote on the Suffragette game? How about Wage Parity Twister?

A few years ago, a friend of mine was working on a story and she asked me if I thought she should use the word "suffragist" instead of
"suffragette." No, said I. The suffragettes took that word which had been coined to insult them and wore it proudly. I don't think they would want the triumph of that taken away from them. (There is an allusion to the word "suffragette" in the story.)

[ 27 July 2004: Message edited by: Sharon ]

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Meg Munn, who chairs the Parliamentary Labour Party’s women’s committee, told Today: "I agree that this was an extremely important moment in our history. They achieved a tremendous amount at great personal cost.

"But I believe a pardon would in some way diminish their achievement. They actually deliberately broke the law and took great personal risk and we should honour that."

Ms Munn said the suffragettes’ memory would be better honoured by improvements in female representation in parliament and in City boardrooms and by ending gender inequality in pay.

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Originally posted by Sharon:

A few years ago, a friend of mine was working on a story and she asked me if I thought she should use the word "suffragist" instead of
"suffragette."

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There is actually a difference between suffragist and suffragette. It depends on who you're talking about - if you're talking about the Pankhursts and their organization, then you're correct in calling them suffragettes.

But there were large numbers of women (the other Pankhurst daughter, for that matter) who were not suffragettes, but who supported women's suffrage - they did not agree with the often violent means that the suffragettes used to make their case. These women were suffragists.

So you can refer to both suffragists and suffragettes, and be correct.

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I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.
-Rebecca West

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If a woman answers no to the question ‘Are you a feminist?’, she should immediately be stripped of her voting rights, her right to institute divorce, her legal protection from domestic violence and marital rape – oh, and her pay should be cut to 19% less than that of her male colleagues.
-Julie Burchill

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"In my heart, I think a woman has two choices: either she's a feminist or a masochist."
—Gloria Steinem

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And my personal favorite:

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"Feminists are just women who don't want to be treated like shit." -?

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[ 27 July 2004: Message edited by: black_dog ]

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"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its
battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis
centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'"
- Dale Spender

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I am a feminazi
Least that is what they say
Because I believe in women's right
Like equal work needs equal pay

If I feel that dangers real while
While walking down the street
I'm unfairly demonizing men
That I have yet to meet.

My own experience of violence
Being niether here nor there
I should put that all behind me
Walk around without a care.

Of course should something happen
It will be my fault
Am I unaware that travelling alone
Can lead to sexual assault?

If as women we want to discuss the things we feel pertain
Most uniquely to us
We must weave through the tears and pain
Of the men that make a fuss.

Because you see there is nothing on earth
That we could say that has any worth
Unless we have a male perspective with which
To see our concerns are a source of mirth.

So feminazis one and all
We will speak our truth
We will support all our sisters
From the wisest crone to the youngest youth

Our stories are that which shape our lives
They've lead us to this day
And those stories can not be silenced
Nor our spirit borne away.

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In 1978 she became editorial page editor of The Montreal Gazette, and in 1993 Editor-in-Chief, winning two National Newspaper Awards for editorial writing in 1982 and 1991. She has served in the Senate of Canada since September 17, 1998. Since this April she has been President of the International Parliamentary Union's Co-ordinating Committee of Women Parliamentarians, making her a member of the IPU's executive committee.

Although Canada
stands 34th in the world for the proportion of women in our Parliament, ranking behind such bastions of feminism as Turkmenistan, Australia, Switzerland, Uganda, Laos, Mexico, Eritrea, Pakistan and Tanzania, still it's good to see a Canadian woman in such a leading international role. I see that:

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Senator Joan Fraser, a Liberal and former newspaper editor from Quebec who chairs the Senate committee . . crossed swords with owner Conrad Black during her stint as editor in chief of the Montreal Gazette. "He used to complain about people who were left wing, feminist, Liberal - all those good things I qualify under," she says.

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[ 27 July 2004: Message edited by: Wilfred Day ]

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Originally posted by Screaming Lord Byron:
The irony is that someone has the luxury to call themselves an 'anti-feminist' partly because of the gains that were won for them by those feminists.

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For food, things we can scoop up without dishes - good dips such as my spicy white bean dip with herbs and a seasonal salsa - organic blue corn chips. We'll drink good sparkling wine - I think champagne is overrated and overpriced, we'll try other origins - a good Sangria, not too sweet, and we'll have fresh berries to eat lasciviously, alone or ...

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Originally posted by Zoot Capri:
Let's crack a nice, modestly-priced bottle of rosé from the south of France, eh?

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WHAT HERESEY says a patriot son from Canada's finest wine producing region. ( our wines regularly win international competitions )

There are vintners who attempt to produce wines here, but really our winters are too harsh and the results are disappointing. We'd be better off concentrating on quality ciders.

I want some bubbly. I believe there are good sparkline wines from Ontario - recall reading about an excellent Riesling one of a German/Alsatian type ... Cheers!

They fight along side the men and show no mercy for the weak and the timid. While they defend their own children, they kill the entire families of the opposing side. We do not take prisoners. It is dishonourable to both ourselves and those we fight against. If they are honourable people, their souls will go to Stovak'Qkor.

Sex of course must be consensual; otherwise, death is the result (you just shoot the other person if they turn you off). But when a male and female Klingon begin to display signs of mutual attraction (sneering from the male, hissing and showing more skin on the part of the female) it then involves the male having to over-power the female who gallantly resists him. A skilled male warrior usually succeeds. But if he is not careful, she could kill him. Or if he doesn’t use his skills accurately, he could kill her. If he succeeds, it’s marriage. If he fails, it’s over.

The way humans mate would be considered insulting and passion-less. There's no word for sweetheart in Klingon!

On Kronos, affirmative action means killing the leader whenever he or she shows weakness or incompetence, or refuses to retire when s/he knows their time is due. This truly equality of opportunity: no hiring quotas; no workforce re-entry programs; no human rights tribunals; no grievance forms to fill out.

Klingons marry for life, which ends the minute one or the other spouses behaves dishonourably (such as infidelity, lack of concern for the children, cowardice in defending one's family etc.). No counseling; no divorce; no custody hearings. When we say, "til death do us part," we mean it!

Klingons do not "honeymoon" in the human sense. After marriage, the couple goes on a treacherous journey filled with danger and hostile forces. The two must endure hardships like hunger, grilling heat, bitter cold and constant stress, and must engage in glorious battle and vanquish all of their opponents. If they fail, they die. If they succeed (and they usually do) they then must eat the hearts of those who they have killed, washing them down with lots of blood wine, and then engage in passionate lovemaking amid the dead bodies and spilled blood. Ah! Just the thought of it fills me with energy!

The only reason a Klingon couple would go to Club Med is to destroy it by slaughtering every Yuppie in sight and burning it to the ground--then have sex among the ashes (along with more blood wine)!! (Since Yuppies are usually heartless, we don’t bother to check to see if they have one so we can eat it).

I miss Kronos! I miss Klingon women! There is no passion on this cursed planet! And the wine sucks! I will surely go back for a vacation after I am banned from this string for posting this.

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The extension of women's rights is the basic principle of all social progress.

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Quote from the French social theorist and early utopian socialist, Charles Fourier (1772-1837)

Socialists. Just a little ahead of everyone else.

I thought everyone had forgotten him! I wrote a 15 page paper on him in high school.

"Ahhhh, Fourier was such a good guy!
I thought everyone had forgotten him!"

Ah, no Socrates. We shall never forget such visionary yet practical minded socialist economists.

I read much of Charles Fourier's involvement with, and writing about, the Phalanx cooperative society movements in the US and Europe. He also played a role in the Icarian movement, along with the Quakers, in the US as well.

Karl Marx and Freddy Engles, as well as numerous other socialist economists and other forward freethinkers, were inspired by his works and spoke highly of him.

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Just one question: are you still glad you invited me to celebrate feminism?!

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Absolutely...I think Klingons are the answer to the age-old question of...Who should kill the bug!.

After a bit of toe-to-toe in a few other threads, I thought I'd just take a moment here this lovely summer morning to say: Gee, but I feel like a free and fully intelligent human being! Wow! I have actually always felt that way! Wow!