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» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Criticizing post-Stalinist states does NOT mean you want Stalinism back.

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Author Topic: Criticizing post-Stalinist states does NOT mean you want Stalinism back.
Ken Burch
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Babbler # 8346

posted 22 September 2007 06:51 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's be clear about this.

NOBODY here wants the old Soviet security apparatus reassembled(even though Putin is arguably in the process of doing so).

NOBODY here wants people to be forbidden to travel from their own countries again.

NOBODY here wants censorship or bureaucratic management of the economy.

What those of us who do criticize the Warsaw Pact alumni and The Artist Formerly Known As The USSR are actually saying is that market economics has clearly failed in those states.

We're saying that there is no excuse for any of those states to be doing WORSE than the old Stalinist regimes in terms of providing for their own population's needs. It should have gone without saying that those societies could count on greater prosperity if the market values types had it right.

And we're saying that a new economic and social model is desperately needed for those states if they are not to fall into decay, extreme poverty, and ultimately, some form of fascism.

And no the old "the people voted for the governments that did these things" dodge doesn't wash. If that doesn't end the discussion here, it doesn't end it there either.

The people of Eastern Europe never WANTED massive austerity. The west FORCED them to accept "elections" between parties that were all committed to immiserating their populations.

So let's get real.

It's about justice, equality, and hope, not nostalgia for the fucking Gulag.

[ 22 September 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 22 September 2007 06:53 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And they didn't want or ask for revolution from above either. The 1990's really sucked for millions of people over there.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
mayakovsky
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posted 22 September 2007 07:12 PM      Profile for mayakovsky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You could still support.

http://www.theotherrussia.org/


From: New Bedford | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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Babbler # 8346

posted 22 September 2007 07:31 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for that link, Mayakovsky.
From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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Babbler # 5594

posted 22 September 2007 07:40 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Opinion polls apparently say that Russians desire state ownership of the news media, and it's because there was too much sex and violence exploited by private agencies in the 90's.

The western capitalists, the oil magnates, the "nomenklatura", Yeltsin's cronies, USAID administrators and "HIID", did their worst in 1990's Russia to ensure that they didn't make the transition to democratic Swedish-style socialism. And now the west is angry because Yeltsin's cronies weren't successful in hacking off the common good in Russia, the oil and the gas anyway, and tossing it to or even sharing it with corporate backers slash salivating western hyenas waiting in the wings. What they say about best laid plans gone awry. Now the shadow government and PNAC cabal no less are accusing them of backsliding on democracy. By gum!

[ 22 September 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

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