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(London) A British LGBT civil rights group says its leaders have received death threats from Muslim fundamentalists and warns that gay clubs could be targets for terrorist bombers.

"Gay venues could be bombed by Islamic terrorists," OutRage said Monday. "All gay bars and clubs should introduce bag and body searches. Muslim fundamentalists have a violent hatred of lesbians and gay men. They believe we should be killed. Our community could be their next target. This is no time for complacency."

The warning comes in the wake of this months terrorist attack in London. More than 50 people died in the bombings that authorities say were the work of Islamic militants.

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As the punchline to an old joke goes:

"You no play-a the game, you no make-a the rules!"

[ 19 July 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

Sigh. It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.

A short essay on Western decadence, by skdadl:

I don't find it hard to understand, actually, why people in impoverished or otherwise traumatized cultures very far away, who know the West, especially the U.S., mainly through Hollywood movies, TV, and pop music, conclude that we are an utterly abandoned, depraved, and decadent lot.

I mean, in some ways, we are. Popular culture (by which I mean everything from Hollywood to McDonald's) is the second major medium for American imperialism abroad (after the military-industrial complex). To a lot of people, it doesn't look like culture at all: it looks like an insult to the very idea of culture, because it is commerce-as-culture, or the other way around, or something like that.

If you're poor, or your country is in upheaval, and you can make the least connection between your plight and Western imperialism, then those images of the West are going to be a source of envy and righteous wrath both: Westerners are rich but they are evil. How can this be right in a righteous scheme of things?

I think that's more or less the logic.

Of course one may become seriously twisted by fixating on the injustice of it all, but then many millions of people can see almost nothing else. So that's why the outrage against half-dressed women! independent women! free love! free sex! homosex! sex as fun! -- as well as the outrage against a lot of other things.

It's awful, but it is understandable, and to a very limited degree, I guess I share some of the analysis.

[ 19 July 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]

How dare we have fun! That calls for a death threat! Maybe several!!

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It's awful, but it is understandable, and to a very limited degree, I guess I share some of the analysis.

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I don't think it's understandable at all. And I don't think your analysis explains why so many other "decadents" aren't getting death threats.

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
So you're saying they do hate our freedoms?

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I mean, independent women and gays are not the source of Western decadence, but a few people seem to have been driven to that leap of logic.

Mr M said:

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I'm decadent... so where's mine?

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Mr M, I am praying that you and I and everyone here never get an answer to that question.

[ 19 July 2005: Message edited by: Betray My Secrets ]

Although since they *are* close-minded bigots, and they *are* Muslim, I suppose the more internationally oriented terrorists may well use them as a recruiting ground, which they wouldn't be able to do with, say, Ian Paisleyites.

[ 19 July 2005: Message edited by: Rufus Polson ]

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Being gay doesn't require any raw materials from anywhere.

What does that have to do with men loving men?

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If you do, lemme know.

One minute we can see the world through their eyes, the next we cannot.

Sorry, but I really can't see death threats against gay groups as being caused by us pillaging their countries for oil to fuel our consumer culture. That makes no sense whatsoever.

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As for the "fun" point, it is pretty funny to see Christian fundamentalist anti-gay and ex-gay screeds, which often talk about the temptations of gay sex in a way which suggests they suspect it is a lot more fun than what they're getting.

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Sorta like an Orthodox rabbi going on and on for hours about all the mouth-watering pork recipes you should avoid.

[ 20 July 2005: Message edited by: voice of the damned ]

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I don't find it hard to understand, actually, why people in impoverished or otherwise traumatized cultures very far away, who know the West, especially the U.S., mainly through Hollywood movies, TV, and pop music, conclude that we are an utterly abandoned, depraved, and decadent lot.

I mean, in some ways, we are. Popular culture (by which I mean everything from Hollywood to McDonald's) is the second major medium for American imperialism abroad (after the military-industrial complex). To a lot of people, it doesn't look like culture at all: it looks like an insult to the very idea of culture, because it is commerce-as-culture, or the other way around, or something like that.

If you're poor, or your country is in upheaval, and you can make the least connection between your plight and Western imperialism, then those images of the West are going to be a source of envy and righteous wrath both: Westerners are rich but they are evil. How can this be right in a righteous scheme of things?

I think that's more or less the logic.

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Skdadl:

Nice summation of what is quite likely the situation. However, I'm curious. Would you apply a similar analysis to North American xtian fundamentalists who detest the same decadent pop culture? Like for example the people who boycott Disney because of its pro-gay productions?

For myself, I'll say that from my limited reading on fundamentalist history, it's probably true that xtian fundamentalism originally found its largest following among people who were economically and socially marginalized. The career of William Jennings Bryan, who supported creationism AND economic egalitarianism(not to mention women's suffrage) is an interesting encapsulation of this phenomenon.

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Sorry, but I really can't see death threats against gay groups as being caused by us pillaging their countries for oil to fuel our consumer culture. That makes no sense whatsoever.

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My take on it:

Imperialism causes people in the colonized countries to notice unpalatable things about the metroploitan culture that they would otherwise be indifferent to(so long as those things were confined to other cultures).

Korea is a Confucian society. Most North Americans, when they consider Confucianism at all, will probably just think: "wow, you gotta treat someone with more respect just because he's three years older than you? That's kinda weird. Oh well. Glad we don't do that here. What's on TV tonight?"

However, if Korea were in the habit of overthrowing North American governments, bombing North American cities, and supporting a Korean-expat mini-state in the middle of Nebraska that was enforcing a virtual apartheid policy against the Nebraskans, then that might tend to colour the way North Americans view Korean culture, even those aspects not directly related to Korean imperialism.

[ 20 July 2005: Message edited by: voice of the damned ]

Gay groups get the death threats, and NOT family planning clinics, discos, strip joints, couples living in fornication, amusement parks, movie theatres, all rock bands, liquor stores, singles bars, or plastic surgeons?

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Gay groups get the death threats, and NOT family planning clinics, discos, strip joints, couples living in fornication, amusement parks, movie theatres, all rock bands, liquor stores, singles bars, or plastic surgeons?

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Magoo:

According to Heph's article, the death threats started after the gay rights group began a campaign to help gay Muslims facing persecution in Algeria and elsewhere. If the Guiness company started a campaign to assist Muslims facing liqour law persecutions in Saudi Arabia, or if the Strip Club Owners Association launched a drive to get more Muslim women onstage, then I could see that also attracting a bit of fundamentalist hostility toward those organizations.

[ 20 July 2005: Message edited by: voice of the damned ]

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Well, what are the credentials of the presumed Muslim Fundamentalist whom are issuing these statements, and can it proved that they are actual Muslim Fundametalist, or there opposite numbers trying to get each and every one of us on side in the war on terrorism.
Maybe somone brought this up before, but can we assume that this threat is from a legit source, or is it disinformation? This is not to say that I don't think this kind of threat might not come from that kind of source, but it seems to me that given the environment today the opposite thesis is also quite likely.

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