Author
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Topic: How do you look?
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nonsuch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1402
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posted 27 January 2002 01:51 PM
I asked this on another thread in which we seem to have lost interest, but i think it's sort of important for women to think about.How do you present yourself at work and in social situations? The same, or differently? Do you use makeup, shave body parts, wear fashionable female attire, high heels, jewelry and scent? Or do you wear the most practical garb for the job and replace it only when it's no longer serviceable? Do you have a plan and purpose in the creation of your own outward image, or do you conform to a standard already established? Whichever choice you make, on what basis do you make it and what are its advantages?
From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 27 January 2002 02:16 PM
I wear make-up (about half the time), and I style my hair in the morning most of the time unless I'm late. I never used to do my hair, but it's at that stage where I REALLY look like hell if I don't.Clothes? Well, I get a lot of clothes as gifts, so they're not usually what I would choose if I were buying them. But I have actually asked people to stop buying me clothing now so that I can actually get the clothes I like. I used to pay a lot of attention to the clothes I wear and I used to be really picky about them. But while married, I fell into this sort of thing where it didn't matter much to me since so many of the clothes that were given to me were rather unflattering. I figured, well, they're free, what the hell? But now, I'm back to paying close attention to how the clothing looks. I'm wearing the given clothes because I can't afford a new wardrobe, but every piece I buy now has to look perfect or it doesn't go into my closet. That's about it.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Relyc
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1326
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posted 28 January 2002 05:03 AM
Practically every item in my wardrobe is a variation on the theme "pyjama." I love it--comfort is everything to me now. And no, that doesn't mean I go around in kaftans or flowing goddess robes. My rule of thumb is to ask myself: can I comfortably a) take a nap or b) do yoga, at any given time, in this article of clothing? So that means comfortable, but not always baggy. Like no sweatshirts, necessarily, cause if I did a headstand in one I would suffocate.And, um, yes, I do work at home, how did you know? The sisterhood isn't still debating the existance of make-up and high-heels as the yoke of the oppressor--are we? Surely we have bigger fish to fry.
From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Sep 2001
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Gayle
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 37
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posted 28 January 2002 10:44 AM
I have different "looks"; some days, I do the pigtails and jeans, some days a raver look, or a skirt and granny boots, or a blazer and jeans, or cargo pants and tank tops, or dress pants and a man's dress shirt open for lots of cleavage, or or or :) It depends on my mood; I could wear dirty clothes to work and it wouldn't affect my job (distance education!). I always wear jewellery (necklaces), almost always what I made myself and usually very feminine-like. I shave under my arms because it feels cleaner; I randomly shave my legs because sometimes I want them to look smooth (or yes, sometimes when I feel like it, for a guy - but usually they just have to deal with my hairy legs like I deal with theirs), and sometimes because I worry that people will notice and mock me (yeah, I'm working on that). Right now, it's winter, so I'm growing out a coat :) In social situations I tend to dress somewhat slinkier/sexier; just because I *feel* sexier in a nightclub than at my office. I don't bother with makeup for work; and when I go out, I only wear lipstick.
From: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2001
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vickyinottawa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 350
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posted 28 January 2002 12:01 PM
this is an interesting discussion - I always have mixed feelings about my desires to don the "power outfits" for certain situations. I tell myself I'm doing it to boost my confidence, but there is a part of me that feels that I'm capitulating - just a bit - to a certain stereotyped appearance....Of course, my "power" look does not include makeup, coiffed hair, or any of that stuff - just simple tailored suits. I tend to wear the best stuff when I'm going to a big meeting, speaking to a crowd, etc. Most days I just go for the "office casual look" of course, I have been known to wear a feather boa to a bar, but those were special occasions.... I think I started the power-look thing when I started to teach. You see, I look young. Although I'm in my mid-thirties, most folks think I'm in my twenties... when I was twentysomething, I looked like a kid. So I felt an extra pressure to dress grown-up, so that people I taught/worked with would take me seriously. It was frustrating as hell, but I felt it was necessary. I still get dismissed by the boomers sometimes, but less so now, thank god.
From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 28 January 2002 02:26 PM
I'm something of a shape-shifter, myself... I usually wear jeans and sweaters in the winter, as I work at home and deal with kids, dog, etc... When I have a meeting, dress pants or a casual skirt and sweater, maybe a casual blazer. Makeup varies according to where I'm going (none if I'm not leaving the house, mascara if it's an ordinary outing, full makeup for important events). My hair is currently very short, because I don't have time to mess with it. I'll likely grow it out again, and then I'll have to spend some time doing it -- fortunately, I have natural curl, so I don't muck with curling irons, etc. My one consistent vice is red lipstick. I have always loved red lipstick. I've really wrestled with the feminine thing vs the feminist thing... Over my lifetime, I've been something of a clothes horse. I've had lots of different looks, many at the same time. I've been an actor and a model (very briefly) in my reckless youth, and I love the way makeup can change people's perceptions so radically. And I like using clothing and makeup to create an impression, to boost my confidence, to make a splash... It can be a very powerful tool. And I still use it.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361
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posted 28 January 2002 02:39 PM
nonesuch, what a good topic. We spend so much time making ourselves "presentable" and such little time thinking about why or for whom we're doing it.I’m extremely conscious of how I’m presenting myself and to whom. I know that despite what we’d like to think - that we’re the same no matter how we’re dressed - people judge us according to our outward appearance. Sometimes, I like to play against that trend - it can be fun to watch people’s surprise when you look like a punk and start talking like a professor. It can be fun to be dressed like young executive and watch people’s surprise when they notice your tattoos or unshaven armpits. But just as often, it’s too much effort to confront people’s judgments. Sometimes, I just want to go about my business, get things done without a hassle. At those times, it’s easier to change my clothes than to change how people think. At work, I'm the only administrative staff in my office - I can pretty much dress however I want, since only a few people might see me on any given day. I also work in housing, so my office is surrounded by people's homes. People have been known to visit my office in their dressing gowns so I don't feel it's appropriate for me to do the total corporate drag that I might if I worked in some other kind of office. My concern at work is that I look tidy and capable. It does depend a lot on who I'm going to be dealing with that day - if I have a meeting with our portfolio manager, you can be sure that I'm going to be dressed and made up to the best of my ability. Knowing that I look good makes me feel more confident; I can devote my energy to the matters I need to deal with, rather than wondering if people are judging me based on the dark circles under my eyes or my wrinkled shirt. At my job I spend a lot of time dealing with builders and contractors, most of whom are men. Because I'm a woman and look relatively young, I'm quite aware that people can, on those grounds alone, choose not to take me seriously. If there's work that I need to accomplish, I'll dress to look very crisp and professional. I need to convey through my appearance that I'm not a silly girl to be trifled with or dismissed. There are times when that is frustrating…but not as frustrating as being treated like a child by someone who is supposed to be working for me. Away from work, I’m still keen on being nicely dressed. Fat women are judged harshly enough in our society, I don't want to compound that by dressing in an unflattering way. It's important to me to look good, to show that one doesn't need to be a size two to be beautiful and to my mind, part of being beautiful is being well-dressed. I also have a tendency to dress in a revealing way. That's partly an expression of my own confidence - I like my body and enjoy showing it off - but also partly a political gesture. You don't often see bigger women showing a lot of skin. We’re indoctrinated to feel that unless we’re slender with large breasts, we should be tented, in an effort to "conceal our flaws". To that, I say, "Baloney!". I’m fat, not flawed! And I want everyone to know it, especially all the other fat girls who’ve never seen their bodies celebrated as beautiful. Just in composing this post, I've realized that in my work I dress for how I'm going to be seen by men, while socially, I dress for how I'm going to be seen by women. While I have my own reasons for wanting to dress to be attractive to other women, I think that that's true for straight women as well. We dress for each other, for how other women are going to view us and measure us against themselves and against our socially-sanctioned image of femininity.
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 28 January 2002 02:48 PM
I look frazzled because I am frazzled. Ok? OK??? I also work (hah!) at home (hah!), and live as much as possible in this neighbourhood, so I live in jeans and sweaters, mostly. Sweats bother me -- too like pyjamas (although I can live a good long way into the day in a dressing gown). All my life I've had a deep weakness for beautiful fabrics -- so some of the jeans are velvet. I so seldom wear make-up that I'm out of practice. I do bother with eye make-up for special social occasions, but I'm beginning to wonder whether my efforts at eye-liner (I used to be so good at that!) are becoming counter-productive. My sense of style was really firmly set in the late 1950s, early 1960s. Jackie Kennedy and Audrey Hepburn were the stiffer icons, but then Julie Christie came along and rumpled the look up a bit -- if I could look like Julie Christie, I still would ... That style isn't just an external thing to me -- it's Proustian: it takes me back instantly to how I felt at 17, 18, how wonderful so many things felt and smelled. It's a very happy memory for me, but more important, I think, is just that it's a memory of a time when sense impressions were at their most intense.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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Relyc
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1326
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posted 28 January 2002 04:15 PM
quote: It seems to me that women have a much wider choice in self-presentation than men do.
I like this point. Yes, it's true. Have you ever noticed there exists a certain breed of men--youngish, guy-guys types--who essentially wear a uniform everywhere they go? To wit: jeans (the most generic but not cheap brand going), t-shirt, shirt or sweater over that, and of course the crowning glory: the ball cap. And of course it all has to fit just-so and look just-so. There can be nothing the least bit whimsical or, heaven-forbid, flamboyant. It strikes me when I see these guys all walking down the street together or sitting together in bars, that their individual outfits had to have been chosen with excruciating care for them to achieve such insane uniformity. It reminds me of when my little brother was a teenager. He'd spend about an hour in the mirror making sure the peak of his ball cap was positioned in precisely the center of his head. And yet only women are stereotyped as being obsessive about their appearance!
From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Sep 2001
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 28 January 2002 04:34 PM
What a great point, Relyc!It's an interesting thing... I will dress from very conservative to very flamboyant, myself, but my blond guy has always been more on the conservative side. Since he began hanging out with me, he's been more inclined to wear unusual things, reflect some of his own personality... I think men are as worried about appearance as we are. How to wear the facial hair, are mustaches in or out, are the pants the right fit... And just look at some of the jewellery guys wear now! I do think they don't have the range of choice we women do, though. After my last post, I started thinking about the plucking/shaving thing.... I just lost a bet with my dearly beloved the other day. He bet me at Christmas time that I couldn't bear to "go European" until my birthday, so I quit shaving for the first time in 24 years. I didn't make it, couldn't stand the leg hair, and shaved on the weekend, 2 weeks before the deadline. Which goes to show, as he didn't mind the body hair at all, that I am shaving strictly for myself....
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361
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posted 28 January 2002 05:34 PM
I don't necessarily think that men have fewer choices or a narrower range of choices in how they attire themselves; I just think fewer men choose to attire themselves in ways which set them out from others of their sex.Men could wear skirts as easily as women wear pants. Skirts can be darn comfortable! Few, if any, choose to do that however. Even the noble kilt is overlooked except at the most formal ceremonies. They could do any of the looks that women do - power suits, mod, punk, goth, raver, prep - but fewer men than women seem to adopt distinctive looks, or at least, not to the extent that women do. Most of those "looks" don't even require a serious departure from the shirt/jeans uniform, just a new interpretation of how the look is applied.
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001
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andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361
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posted 28 January 2002 07:28 PM
quote: I really don't think, though, that men can wear skirts as easily as women pants, in practice. In most business and social situations -- outside of a smallish, bohemian/radical set -- they simply wouldn't be taken seriously if they tried it, any more than a woman would be taken seriously if she showed up to a board meeting wearing nothing but a thong swimsuit and heels. Even if she carried a smart briefcase.
Most changes in fashion begin in bohemian/radical set circles, don't they? Then they get watered down for consumption by the rest of society. So, the truly spirited gentlemen could wear minis, and by the time they reached the more conservative set, you'd have nice knee or ankle length deals, in pinstripes or whatnot. And 'lance, I have to say that I find your argument flawed. A swimsuit is inappropriate attire for a board room, however smart one's briefcase may be. A skirt, conversely, is perfectly appropriate apparel for business. The only thing that prevents a man from wearing a skirt in a business meeting is that it is socially constructed as a woman's garment. When women first started wearing trousers, which were socially constructed as a man's garment, I think that the general perception was that it was a scandalous thing to do. A man who began wearing a skirt would, I suspect, be seen as less scandalous than ridiculous. Harumph!
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001
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Catalyst
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 237
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posted 28 January 2002 09:44 PM
As a lowly "shop rat", I wear the obligatory jeans and t-shirt to work, but I am a whiz at accessorizing my ensemble. I wear flashy new prescription safety glasses (look for the reason in the Catalyst's Rant thread) with contrasting neon orange earplugs, white cotton gloves, a black neoprene elbow and knee brace ensemble and of course, the RIGHT pair of shoes (steel toed and DAMNED SEXY.) My hair is quite short and I haven't learned to put on makeup on due to low vision in one eye. Outside of work, I wear a lot of union shirts unless I am on a date. Dressing up for dates is a must and I wear appropriate clothing at more formal functions. I even paid to have my makeup done for my brother's wedding as well as a Christmas party this past year. I do confess that I got caught by my union president telling an employment equity rep that I felt like I was in drag for the party.I shave some parts, but unless I need to wear a skirt, my legs do not get shaved. I do not even wear shorts in the summer. As to men wearing skirts, I guess the Romans and Scots were just being avant garde. I wouldn't mind seeing a man in a skirt. Or kilt. Believe me, I have seen some fairly sexy men in kilts. [ 25 June 2003: Message edited by: Catalyst ]
From: gone | Registered: Apr 2001
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Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554
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posted 29 January 2002 01:15 PM
quote: Well, it wasn't an argument, only just an attempt at illustration. But my point (I did have one) is that a skirt wouldn't be seen as appropriate on a man.
*devil's advocate mode*
When women complain about the societal pressures they endure, don't many men counter, "ah get over it. If you don't want to conform to society's rules, you don't have to. If you feel you have to conform, it's your own damn fault." If that's true, why do men feel they HAVE to conform by wearing the proper "uniform"? If men really had the freedom from societal pressures that so many people claim they do, they'd be wearing short skirts and skimpy blouses on a hot July day instead of intolerable wool suits. *end devil's advocate mode* During the summer, I often gaze at the female staff with great envy. Their business attire is much more suitable to a hot day than mine.
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 29 January 2002 01:46 PM
Double post (I seem to be doing that a lot lately!):I know what you mean about those outfits that Indian men wear, Slick. I've heard that they're actually quite cool in the summer - reflects the heat, covers the skin so you don't get burned, etc. I've always thought the women's outfits were beautiful. I lived in a neighbourhood in Toronto where more women wore those outfits than western clothing! And I always thought I would love to get a couple of outfits like that - they're so loose, comfortable, gorgeous colours, probably quite cool in the summer, and - well, I think they're pretty. However, I thought it would look dumb if I wore one - I'd feel like such a wannabe in them. I think we discussed this on a thread a long time ago when someone was asking whether a white guy wearing dreads was disrespectful. But I would love to be able to add those kind of outfits to my regular wardrobe. A Libyan woman in my building went home over the summer and came back with her finger and toe nails dyed with henna, and those henna designs on her feet. She had some on her hands too, but she said they faded off before she got back. She offered to do it for me sometime when I told her how pretty it looked. I didn't know what to say - again, I would love to do it, but would I be a complete poser if I did it? After all, the woman offering to do it is of that culture and doesn't seem to mind. I guess it's one of those things where I am playing it safe and not doing it so that I don't offend anyone (or open myself up to ridicule).
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Slick Willy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 184
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posted 29 January 2002 03:41 PM
quote: Let me get this straight - you've actually worn a kilt into a boardroom?
I have made a few sales on account of them I think. But there is a right way and a wrong way too. The kilt is the eye opener. When you start to speak, everyone wants to see if you do think outside the box or if you are just putting it on. Like it or not personal appearence plays a role in getting people to believe in you. A kilt at the same time says traditional and non-conformist. But that has to be backed up with the knowledge of the business and foresite of direction. I don't pull that off everytime but I like to think that I am on target far more often than not. Mendi kicks ass. My wife is really into it and I like the look. The thing about Canada is that immigration brings culture to our country. I see it as a celebration of culture when someone chooses to wear something or have a hairstyle a certain way. For those who feel insulted by that, I feel the would best protect their culture by moving back to their country and hiding from cameras so that no one could see the aspects of their culture they want to protect so dearly. I think because of all this mixture of cultures our tolerance of others ideas and ways is inspired. After all just think how funny you would sound if you told someone new to this country in the dead of winter that they shouldn't wear a parka because they are ripping off canadian culture and look like a wannabe. Wannabe warm and comfortable, no kidding.
From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 29 January 2002 05:43 PM
Notjs wrote: quote: One summer, I waitressed at a greasy spoon in rural Alberta (the patrons were fond of tapping their cigarette ashes onto the carpet as well as spitting chewing tobacco on the carpet), but I was told by the female owner that I had to wear nylons at all times for "hygenic reasons."
I'm sure I know that place. Or close enough. ROTFL. The up-side of being outsourced: no more pantyhose!!! Yes! (Although I really like being able to turn my legs black or navy blue every once in a while.) I love reds. There are so many reds, and my favourite shifts, depending on I'm not sure what. At the moment, my favourite red is as close to turning orange as it can be but still be red, and looks best with shamelessly glittering gold. I've just emerged from a blue-red period. (No pun intended, by the way.) There is no finer colour than shocking pink, navy pink, cerise ... It is the colour of romantic delirium. I can't imagine wearing it often -- but I love it as soon as I see it.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 30 January 2002 06:51 PM
quote: Red is a stupid colour. Red looks slightly out-of-focus compared to other colours, because the human eye doesn't quite like red's wavelength, or something like that.You especially shouldn't wear red on TV. Red really confused video cameras.
Red, Red, RED!!!! My favourite colour! A wonderful colour! A look-at-me-can't-miss-me colour! I LOVE RED!!!!!! Actually, with old video technology, red was a problem colour, it strobed.... Now, with better technology, red is perfectly acceptable on camera. And I have done so! With accolades! I don't think I've ever been without a red sweater somewhere in my wardrobe... And I've had a couple of completely smashing red dresses in my time... In fact, I was wearing a vintage red silk dress when I met my sweetie...
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625
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posted 25 June 2003 03:48 AM
quote: It seems to me that women have a much wider choice in self-presentation than men do
Wo-ho! I. Beg. To. Differ! Men have every bit of choice in self-presentation as women. It's just that only a very limited portion of men have realized it. Modern traditional mens fashion (formal: Suit, ties, or tuxes; casual: jeans, shirt, ball cap for the younger generation, and sweaters and slacks for the rest) are forms of social control. So few are willing to break from these forms for fear of being "outside" the lubly little mens club. (Yes, I made up a word, deal with it.) It's not the result of feminism, as many crack pots may claim, that men are now (or more evidently) suffering from body image issues, or conformist mindsets, but of a conservative, inhibitive patriarchal order. They're taught through media and a number of other social settings that men and women are completely different beings (while there are many differences, we're still basically just different sexes of the same species), and the role of the male is *fill in the blank, usually consisting of words like tough, restrained, control, etc.* Design is for women. Expression is for women. Emotion is for women. Note that "women" can often be interchanged with "the weak." Many are being brainwashed into thinking that they have to be "tough" and the only way to be so is by coforming to this patriarchal order. That's the kind of value system that males have been brainwashed into holding by our patriarchal culture. But things are starting to change (Thank heavens for feminism!) It began in many different places, including the punk scene, queer liberation movement, and other scenes. In some cases, men just grew up and realized they could express themselves however they damn well pleased and there wasn't anything anyone could do about it. As for the less obvious examples from the queer liberation movement, a lot of men (speaking from first hand experience) just thought "So, if I wear/do this, they'll call me gay. Uh huh. I am. So that hurts me... how?" But that's not really eventful in the larger scheme of things, IMHO. One of my favorite quotes is about fashion. In fact, I even printed it out and podged it to my dresser so I would never forget, and always consider it while purchasing clothes or getting dressed. quote: Clothes are our weapons, Our challenges, Our personal insults. --Angela Carter
As could be assumed, I dress for me. I dress the same at work (job, activism, school, etc.) as I do any other time. And to be quite blunt, I never want to wear a suit again, ever. They're just lovely on women, as there's an element of reclamation in the act, but in general, I see suits as ugly, and tools for conformity. My "look" has been described as "indy-rock" by a couple people I trust on the matter, which is odd, since I'm actually really unfamiliar with the genre (not willingly. I'm just ignorant). I've got my nails, which today are painted purple, with the word "Razzmatazz" scrawled across in green. My hair is always either left as is, or done up in hair clips. I never blow dry my hair. I'll wear the rare t-shirt (tight running, more or less), or more often an earthy-toned shirt with a v(ish)-neck (sometimes buttons), or a brightly coloured button-up casual top. I've got a few different kinds of jeans, a pair of black pants with cargo pockets on either side, and a pair of off-white pants made from some material that goes "swoosh" when you walk. My shoes look like bowling shoes, and my sandals were described by a friend as "WNBA sandals." My toenails are currently painted green. Just today, I bought a light brown leather jacket from Value Village's women's retro section ($7! Score!) with embroidered flowers all over it. As soon as the weather isn't icky, I plan on never taking it off.
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001
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swirrlygrrl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2170
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posted 25 June 2003 04:56 AM
I love sandals. I live in my Tevas, though not as much as during university when any day there wasn't snow on the ground (or not too much of it), I wore them. I've gotten more into girly and playing with clothes in the recent past, though I'm still not as risque as I'd like to be. See me in a normal day, and it'll likely be jeans, a t-shirt, and a bunnyhug or sweater. Like Vicky, when in business situations, I tended to dress "better" than I had to (as evidenced by how my co-workers and even my boss dressed). I look young, and wearing a suit gave me a feeling that I was saying "hey! take me seriously!" Usually worked too. As for hair and makeup, you'll hardly ever catch me outside the house without foundation and eyeliner, though apparently I'm good at the "natural" look as people tend to be surprised when I tell then that. Full complement usually means adding blush and eyeshadow, and ocassionally even mascara these days. Nothing over the top. And I hate lipstick (espcially the red stuff!). Just tonnes of lipbalm. Hair - I prefer to wear it simply pulled up, but if I want it to look nice, I'll get out the volumizer goop, blow it dry, put on the shine serum, curl it, and then give it a nice dousing of hairspray. It looks that way for about 10 minutes, but that's how long I'm ni front of the mirror, and it makes me feel good. I guess I don't try to project much of an image aside from "girl next door" - I look pretty average. Part of that stems (aside from lack of bravery!) from the fact that I tend to work and volunteer in fields where people need to trust you and feel good about you in a short period of time, and fair or not, projecting a strong image that runs counter to their assumptions about what "a professional" looks like, or which labels you in their eyes as "other," can make that process more difficult. I've taken the easy road in dealing with that. And its not to say I haven't run into assumptions from activist groups as well based on my appearance - I tend to look other there, and I notice the difference in reactions. Not fair, but its life. PS - meades, suits are hot on men!! Maybe its the power dynamics, but a good looking man in a good looking suit, truly divine.
From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 25 June 2003 09:34 AM
Oh my GOD, I love a man in a suit. I like men in other clothes too. Not even a suit necessarily. Even just a collar shirt and a tie - oh man. Drool.Meades, it depends on the kind of work you want to do whether you have to "conform". I was all into the non-conformist thing in high school as well, as were most of my friends (strangely enough, we were all so busy being "non-conformists" that in effect, we were enforcing a dress code on each other through peer pressure as well - no "preppy" clothes!) but here's the thing: dressing "for yourself" is great. And I love to dress in clothes that express "me". But the thing is, there are times when you just have to bend to the social control and wear things that are in the range of what's appropriate. It's easy to say that you will be "an individual", but if the type of work you like to do happens in an industry where there's a certain type of business dress necessary, somehow I doubt you're going to paint your nails green and wear a boa to the job interview. Or, I guess you CAN do it, and call yourself a "non-conformist" and tell yourself that if they don't hire you it's THEIR loss, but you know what? It's actually NOT their loss, it's yours. The only reason I bring this up is because there are a few things I've wished I could do lately that I really don't feel I can do at the moment while job hunting. For instance, a friend of mine put bright pink streaks into her hair (you know who you are!) and I told her I thought it looked great. And I laughed and said I couldn't get away with something like that because I am signed on with a temp agency and going to job interviews, and I have to look relatively conservative. We joked around about putting a red streak into my hair as soon as I got a relatively secure job. (I doubt I'll do it though - I was only joking about it.) The other thing I thought would be neat, is a small henna drawing on my hand or on my ankle. Nice fun thing for the summer. But again - for interviews, you want to look conservative. Now of course, this depends on the kind of industry you want to go into. I think you were saying you want to take social work in university, right meades? Job interviews for social workers, and the dress code for social workers tend to be business casual, although I've seen social workers who dress a little more casual than that, and sometimes even wear denim to work. But to say that people have all the choice in the world as to what to wear - nuh-uh, not in the working world they don't. It would be frowned upon pretty badly to wear "the grunge look" to the type of offices I've worked in - and I've worked in all sorts of offices, from social services to corporate.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Meowful
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4177
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posted 25 June 2003 12:03 PM
quote: Originally posted by Michelle:
I've always thought the women's outfits were beautiful. I lived in a neighbourhood in Toronto where more women wore those outfits than western clothing! And I always thought I would love to get a couple of outfits like that - they're so loose, comfortable, gorgeous colours, probably quite cool in the summer, and - well, I think they're pretty. However, I thought it would look dumb if I wore one - I'd feel like such a wannabe in them. I didn't know what to say - again, I would love to do it, but would I be a complete poser if I did it? After all, the woman offering to do it is of that culture and doesn't seem to mind. I guess it's one of those things where I am playing it safe and not doing it so that I don't offend anyone (or open myself up to ridicule).
A friend of mine from India dressed me all up in her beautiful wardrobe with the heavy dark eye make-up, the sari, the gold jewelery, and the henna. I FELT like a beautiful princess -- I LOOKED like a cheap whore! With my blonde hair and green eyes, the make-up (heavy black) was way, way too much. But I loved her sari and the henna! I, too, felt like an imposter, but it sure was fun (and I never went out in public like that). I envy other cultures for their wardrobes, Indian women look sooo beautiful and comfy!
From: British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2003
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 25 June 2003 01:14 PM
That sounds like big fun, Meowful. I have a friend who goes to a big dinner function with the local Indian community, and she borrowed a sari last time she went. She looked great! quote: Modern traditional mens fashion (formal: Suit, ties, or tuxes; casual: jeans, shirt, ball cap for the younger generation, and sweaters and slacks for the rest) are forms of social control.
The blond guy would agree with you in terms of suits and ties -- he calls them "the uniform" and will only wear one if he absolutely has to. He makes choking noises when I make him wear a tie. But, since he's in his 40s, I think he'd have some trouble being taken seriously if he chose the nail polish option, for example. And hey, sometimes the more conservative choices are who that person is. The most outrageous thing the blond one ever wears is a sweater he got in Norway -- black and white Norse patterns, longish, with a big leather belt. Makes him REALLY look like a Viking (which I think is waaaay better than a suit). Beyond that, he's a fairly conservative/casual dresser. He doesn't feel repressed by it.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Lima Bean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3000
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posted 25 June 2003 03:22 PM
I go for quirky and/or silly. I like colours a lot and I like to pair them (or triple them) unexpectedly. My mom used to tell me that "blue and green should never be seen except for on a fairy queen", which was perfect incentive, of course, to don blue and green together whenever I could. Almost all my clothes are solid colours, though. I don't go for patterns, really.I'm not much for buying clothes, and tend to only shop vintage/thrift stores, garage sales and the like, so work-appropriate attire is sometimes challenging. I usually figure that if I can/should iron it, it's probably okay to wear to work. I've just recently started to enjoy wearing skirts (might have been moving to Toronto, where pants can be the death of you on a hot enough day, but shorts aren't really okay for work), but I still can't really bring myself to put on a whole dress very often. I'm subtle, despite the colours thing, and I think I'm probably more cute and playful than sexy or sophisticated. And always, no matter what the occasion, where I'm going or what I'm doing, the clothes have got to be functional and comfortable. That little maxim "fashion before function" makes me wanna throttle someone.
From: s | Registered: Aug 2002
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meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625
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posted 25 June 2003 03:24 PM
quote: from the fact that I tend to work and volunteer in fields where people need to trust you and feel good about you in a short period of time, and fair or not, projecting a strong image that runs counter to their assumptions about what "a professional" looks like, or which labels you in their eyes as "other," can make that process more difficult. I've taken the easy road in dealing with that.
I wouldn't call that the easy way out, more the sensible way out. If clothes have the power to make vulnerable people feel uncomfortable, then it's just a matter of human decency dressing in a way that makes them comfortable. Michelle, I think you're missing my point. I wasn't saying that people should dress like me all the time, or it's everyone's responsibility to resist the "conservative" tide in fashion. I was refering to how 97% of young males dress exactly the same, and that the only thing stopping them from doing otherwise is their own cowardace. When I said I dress the same for work as I do for any other occasion, that was a statement of fact, not principle. The jobs and responsibilities that I've had haven't required me to do otherwise. You can bet your bottom I'm not wearing a "Vaginas Are Wierd" shirt when I visit my grandma, and if I have to wear a uniform to work at The Lucky House, chances are I'll wear it (I just really hate suits. They're stuffy, uncomfortable, and ridiculously expensive. They're fit only for funerals, and in that case, you're already uncomfortable). Going back to a point Swirrly made about activists, I got that too at first (I dressed a bit more conservatively then, but don't dress anything like most of them even now) but because it's such a small community, everyone gets to know everyone in those circumstances and the prejudices pretty much evaporate. Now, I must say I took a moderate bit of offense, Michelle, to the insinuation that it's fine and dandy to dress differently in High School, but afterwards one should wake up and go back to the world of "normal" (whatever that means) clothes regardless as to how one feels comfortable. Putting "individual" in quotation marks didn't help. The way I dress isn't incredibly radical, just different (yes, even from my friends). I know many people who dress more radically or more flamboyantly than I do in their 20s and 30s (One's a social worker, coincidentally). In any case, I don't think that's what you were trying to say, but it gave me an opportunity to fill in some gaps left by my previous post. But anyway, I'm not planning on going into social work anymore. Not quite sure what to go into, but I've been leaning toward International studies and modern languages at Laval. anyway...
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001
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Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873
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posted 25 June 2003 04:04 PM
I almost never wear polish on my fingernails because it only looks good (unchipped) for a day or so and I don't have time to re-paint them that often. I do do my toenails in brilliant and bizarre colours, and for that reason love sandal-weather.I was among a handful of students at my high school in the late 70s who were into punk rock and alternative music. We dressed outrageously (well, outrageously for the time period) and enjoyed every bit of it. These days, I still have more piercings than the average woman, I still have the tattoo I got in 1980 (and I still love it!), and my hair can still be described as a spiky, messy nightmare (except it's blonde now, not brown or black). I still wear, exclusively, silver jewellery and I still like dark grey and purple eyeliner and shadow. Right now I'm wearing a black lace tank (shows off the ink!), black cotton drawstring pants and platform sandals. I have a tiny diamond stud in my nose, Nordic rune earrings, a toe ring, and a very fine silver anklet. Oh, and a purple titanium barbell in my tongue. It helps that I work in a university environment, but it's a conservative university in a conservative city. While I consider my mode of dress or accessorizing to be quite tame (compared to how I would dress if I had total freedom of choice), others do not. However, being from Toronto, I'm allowed a certain amount of fashion cachet, and the fact that I am competent and experienced overrides whatever questions they may have about my fashion choices. I dress more conservatively for meetings where it's appropriate, but I never hide who I am. I always dress in a way that expresses something about myself, I always dress for myself, and often dress with a mind to what my partner would like to see me in. His pleasure is mine.
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001
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ck
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4198
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posted 29 June 2003 08:53 AM
I don't have much to contribute to the "how you dress" question (really boring: whatever clothes are clean and don't have holes, no jewellery ever, a bit of concealer/ mascara at times, with hair fairly short for ease of "styling") but I wanted to join this conversation... So this is what I came up with. quote: Originally posted by nonesuch: I don't think skirts are ever going to catch on with men. More likely, fewer and fewer women will wear them. The climate is mostly why; second reason is ladders and other high places.
Do you think it's related? Skirts and ladders (actual or, metaphorically, corporate)? "We'd love to promote you, sweetie, but then all the grunts could see up your skirt."
From: New Brunswick | Registered: Jun 2003
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nonsuch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1402
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posted 29 June 2003 10:36 AM
quote: Do you think it's related? Skirts and ladders (actual or, metaphorically, corporate)?"We'd love to promote you, sweetie, but then all the grunts could see up your skirt."
Better to see what they're kissing, my dear... Actually, i wasn't thinking of corparations at the time: i was thinking of the many kinds of work women are doing doing now, where a skirt would be imparatical, even hazardous, and high heels are right out of the question. Anyway, the Corporate Age is drawing to a close - that whole economic edifice is crumbling. Young people just starting to plan their future work shouldn't base their assumptions on the corporate structure. And they certainly shouldn't design their self-presentation for a failed system.
From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001
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shelby9
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2193
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posted 29 June 2003 04:52 PM
I have definite different looks for different events.I go to the office during the week, looking the model of professionalism, skirt suits, blouses and dress pants, always in low heels, nothing too flashy in colour, nothing TOO revealing in neckline or hem line. Hair is always carefully coiffed, and let me tell you - there are days my long curly red hair and I have quite the battle to achieve what I preceive to be an office appropriate style. I wear minimal make-up, not for office appropriateness, but I find a lot of make-up doesn't suit me that well. As I am a single girl - if I am going out - I will dress to please myself, but to also attract some male-type attention. I prefer wearing lowcut shirts, sheer shirts, shorter skirts, and higher heels. The fact that the style is appreciated by the male gender - is simply a bonus. Sure, I've gone all out with the clothes and make-up, but not that often. I generally allow my hair to be a little wilder - or have the toussled look, which I prefer anyway. I have been known to dress provocatively - for kicks, but also to please the guy I am going out with. I make no apologies for it. If I am spending the day with myself, and my cat is likely to be the only other living creature to see me, then it's ratty t-shirt and shorts day. Typically this falls on a Sunday. I may or may not do anything with my hair - depends on how ambitious I am that day. I think we are all guilty of buying something to wear, be it clothes, underwear, perfume, make-up, whatever to make a particular impression on someone else with little or no concern of how we feel about it.
From: Edmonton, AB | Registered: Feb 2002
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