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(QD) Bosnia and Herzegovina: After long negotiations with the authorities in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the International Initiative for Visibility of Queer Muslims (IIVQM) has received legal recognition and is registered as a non-governmental organization - the first officially recognized queer Muslim society in a predominantly Muslim country.

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edit to add from the link:

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IIVQM was founded in November 2004, by a group of young LGBTIQ activists from Bosnia and Herzegovina and Lebanon. Its primary goal is to establish a faith-based dialogue between the sexual, gender and cultural minorities and the rest of our societies.

It aims at gathering queer Muslim scholars and activists who will speak out for the oppressed queer Muslim community, contribute to the creation and development of the LGBTIQ Movement especially in so called ‘Muslim countries’, and represent its interests in the international religious and human rights arena.

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This sounds like a very promising project in so many ways. There's a danger in some countries that "gay rights" language can be seen as a sort of Westernizing cultural import. It's probably reaching to base any conclusions on such a short article, but to me this sounds like an organization that is sensitive to such concerns and trying to make advances for queer people in Muslim-majority societies in a way that will not appear like some sort of "Western cultural imperialism." More effective, maybe, than Dutch MP's making films.

[ 18 November 2005: Message edited by: swallow ]

[ 18 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]

That would be rich, if the whole Bin Laden, Al Zarquawi thing foundered on gay rights.

As for Bouyeri

That would be ok if his ass were to be taken by a righteous justice.

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Originally posted by Rikardo:
I'm not surprised. Bosnia is virtually a colony of NATO and the Sarajevo (Muslim) "government" is looking for chances to please its masters.

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Meaning what, exactly?

And I'll second swallow's point... You've left me at sea, here, Q-ball. ?????

edited to clarify that "swallow" is a noun here, not a verb

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

And fuck the Bosnian muslims because the west supported them, so they are not muslims we can put our weight behind.

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:

Meaning what, exactly?

And I'll second swallow's point... You've left me at sea, here, Q-ball. ?????

edited to clarify that "swallow" is a noun here, not a verb

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

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I mean that this is a cool thing, but is it a break through for the Muslim world? That is the way it sounds. I mean are we even sure that this is the first ever official recognition of a gay organization in a majority Muslim country? Or is that just what someone is saying, because it sounds good, and makes the Bosnia intervantion look good.

That is a lot of caveats and qualifiers.

There are no officially recognized gay rights organizations in Turkey, at all? Not even at the civic level? Nothing in Istanbul? Nothing? Not in any of the African Muslim countries? Nowhere?

It sounds like spin.

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Request to ban Turkish gay rights group rejected

An official demand to ban Turkey's first gay rights association was rejected by a prosecutor on Wednesday, allowing the KAOS Gay and Lesbian Cultural Research and Solidarity Association to continue to operate, reports Agence France-Presse. The decision was hailed by gay rights activists as a big step in combating discrimination in the country, which hopes to join the European Union.

The Ankara governor's office had informed KAOS last month that it had asked a court to dissolve the group because "associations against law and morality cannot be established." But the prosecutor reviewing the demand decided not to proceed with a court case on the grounds that the words "gay" and "lesbian" are used both in daily life and scientific research with no inhibitions and that homosexuality does not amount to immorality. "This is a big step in efforts to remove sexual discrimination in all areas of social life and allow Turkish homosexuals the equality and justice they deserve," KAOS said in a statement.

Prejudice against gays and lesbians remains strong in Turkey, even though same-sex relationships have never been criminalized as in other Muslim countries and many gays figure among the country's top celebrities. Gay activists say most of them risk their jobs if they disclose their sexual identity and there are no laws to protect their rights. KAOS has functioned as an informal group since 1994, publishing a magazine and organizing activities for gays and lesbians, who have become increasingly outspoken in recent years.

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Sometimes its how you slice the bread isn't it? Having a state Governot office quash a ban is pretty close to official recognition, I think.

As far as I know homosexuality has never even been illegal in Turkey, so the accent of the whole thing, and the focus on the "Muslim" aspect makes me queazy.

How many Christian countries can claim that they have never made homosexuality, or homosexual acts criminal? I can't think of any.

Part of the background sense of this is that there is something especially homophobic about Muslims. Does Croatia have an official LGBT organization? Why is the event framed in this way? Why is it not the first "Balkan country" to recognize an LGBT group?

It just feels weird. Perhaps I am imagining things.

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Ginger Jar:
What involvement do gay Muslims have with the White House?

That would be rich, if the whole Bin Laden, Al Zarquawi thing foundered on gay rights.

As for Bouyeri

That would be ok if his ass were to be taken by a righteous justice.

Uh wait what am I saying

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Yes exactly my question. What are you saying? Anything?

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Sometimes its how you slice the bread isn't it? Having a state Governot office quash a ban is pretty close to official recognition, I think.

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Can't stand having a little sport made of a righteously fanatical piece of shit like Bouyeri?

Seems like standard fare on babble, as far as I can see. I don't see the fanatical Christian right being cut any slack here.

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Ginger Jar ]

A little googling seems to indicate this organization is based in both Bosnia and Lebanon, and has potential to do some international solidarity work, from within the Islamic tradition. That to me is a great deal more useful than the self-righteous finger-wagging ("Muslims are homophobic! Read Irshad Manji for PROOF!!!!") that we are usually treated to.

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Originally posted by Ginger Jar:
What's the matter cueball?

Can't stand having a little sport made of a righteously fanatical piece of shit like Bouyeri?

Seems like standard fare on babble, as far as I can see. I don't see the fanatical Christian right being cut any slack here.

[ 22 November 2005: Message edited by: Ginger Jar ]

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Please refer me to my voluminous posting on the "fanatical crhistian right."

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Originally posted by Rikardo:
I'm not surprised. Bosnia is virtually a colony of NATO and the Sarajevo (Muslim) "government" is looking for chances to please its masters.

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Acually, this is not the case. The EU has taken over the mandate for current stabilisation operations in BiH. Having been to BiH several times now, I can assure you that the government there has always been respected by SFOR forces (not always liked, but then respect and like do not always go hand in hand).

The goal of SFOR has always been one of stabilisation, not colonisation (the later costs far too much frankly, and does not make for good friends later). In the later years we spent alot of time training with the BiH Federated army and police forces, conducted operations along side the police forces, and then in the last years supported independant local police actions (Op Harvest - the collection of illegal weapons, usulally volutary).

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Originally posted by swallow:
Bosnia's not an Islamic state is it? Did anyone say it was?

edit to add from the link:

This sounds like a very promising project in so many ways. There's a danger in some countries that "gay rights" language can be seen as a sort of Westernizing cultural import. It's probably reaching to base any conclusions on such a short article, but to me this sounds like an organization that is sensitive to such concerns and trying to make advances for queer people in Muslim-majority societies in a way that will not appear like some sort of "Western cultural imperialism." More effective, maybe, than Dutch MP's making films.

[ 18 November 2005: Message edited by: swallow ]

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Bosnia is a country that is predominatly Muslim. There is an attempt at seperation of state and church however, which IMHO seperates it from qualifying as an Islamic state.