babble: The die is cast in Bolivia

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Topic: The die is cast in Bolivia

Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 14 December 2007 07:13 PM

quote:
Bolivia has put its military on alert after four states declared their intention to create independent regional governments.

Soldiers were ready to step in to protect public and private property, Walker San Miguel, the country's defence minister, was quoted by Bolivia's daily La Prensa as saying on Thursday.

"We are remaining very attentive and concerned by what is happening in the country," San Miguel said.

Who do you think is behind the curtain?

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005 | IP: Logged

Frisko
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14181

posted 14 December 2007 07:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

Who do you think is behind the curtain?

I hope "SANiTY CLAUSE" is behind the Iron Curtain.
The world has gone through two world wars,floods,tectonic shifts,and an enless amount of bad comics,yet we still survive.
Canada is not perfect,but thank you(My fellow Canadians) for being the true optimists of the world.

From: B.C | Registered: May 2007 | IP: Logged

Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 14 December 2007 07:57 PM

I think I know what you're saying and I think it has been said before:

Everything is beautiful
Even when the tears are falling
I don't need a miracle to believe
Even in the crashing down
I can hear redemtion calling
And everything is beautiful to me

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005 | IP: Logged

Frisko
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14181

posted 14 December 2007 08:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
I think I know what you're saying and I think it has been said before:

Everything is beautiful
Even when the tears are falling
I don't need a miracle to believe
Even in the crashing down
I can hear redemtion calling
And everything is beautiful to me

The only way we can move forward,and bring the majority with us,is through "OPTIMISM"
The CONS have done this well,and we need to learn this IMHO.

From: B.C | Registered: May 2007 | IP: Logged

Frisko
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14181

posted 14 December 2007 08:11 PM

Why would I vote for you ?
You bring "zero" optimism.

From: B.C | Registered: May 2007 | IP: Logged

Abdul_Maria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11105

posted 15 December 2007 08:02 AM

"The four states object to a constitutional overhaul planned by Evo Morales, the Bolivian president, which would increase his presidential powers, improve the rights of Bolivia's indigenous majority and redistribute wealth from their low-lying richer areas to the poorer heights of the Andes."

this has American fingerprints all over it.

From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged

jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798

posted 15 December 2007 09:14 AM

In what parts of Bolivia are the oil and gas interests located? Who controls them?

From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006 | IP: Logged

Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 15 December 2007 09:16 AM

If people believe that Quebec has a right of self-determination and can secede from Canada anytime that a majority vote for sovereignty - then why shouldn't any province or group of provinces in Bolivia also be free to secede if there is a majority vote in a referendum?

From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002 | IP: Logged

N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 15 December 2007 09:21 AM

Stockholm, the Canadian equivalent would be the separation of Alberta. There's nothing there about linguistic or national uniqueness. It's just people blessed by a regional resource that would like to keep it for themselves against the wishes of a larger national majority.

From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged

Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 15 December 2007 09:26 AM

...and if a majority of Albertans voted to be an independent country - I would support their right to "self-determination" as well.

Back in the 60s, Biafra (home of the oppressed Ibo people) declared its independence from Nigeria and Biafra is where most of Nigeria's oil is located. The Nigerians fought one of the most brutal and inhumane wars of all-time to keep them from seceding and starved millions. I would have supported Biafra's right to independence too. It's not as if you only have a right to independence if you are the poorer part of a country.

From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002 | IP: Logged

N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 15 December 2007 09:30 AM

Your "scare quotes" around self-determination give you away. I know it sticks in your craw and makes you see red but that concept only makes political sense when you put the word "national" in front of it.

You can do it. Just say "national self-determination" in the mirror. See. It wasn't that hard, was it?

From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003 | IP: Logged

jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798

posted 15 December 2007 09:35 AM

quote:
Living conditions of the native people, who constituted most of the population, remained deplorable. Forced to work under primitive conditions in the mines and in nearly feudal status on large estates, they were denied access to education, economic opportunity, or political participation. Bolivia's defeat by Paraguay in the Chaco War (1932–35) marked a turning-point.[

web page

Apparently the difference is Quebec wants title to Alberta when they leave.

From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006 | IP: Logged

Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972

posted 15 December 2007 09:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Abdul_Maria:
this has American fingerprints all over it.

Of course.

It always does.

From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005 | IP: Logged

jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798

posted 15 December 2007 09:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
Of course.
It always does.

Given the history of American intervention and manipulation in Latin America on behalf of American corporations, even a skeptic such as myself cannot deny the likely possibility that Charlie Wilson is active again.

Just because the International Fruit Company no longer has license to call upon the USMC to settle its labour relations, (at least,not overtly) is no reason to believe that Manifest Destiny is not a real and active American objective.

From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006 | IP: Logged

Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 15 December 2007 09:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
Of course.
It always does.

I think there might be a few countries where the CIA hasn't interfered politically or covertly, Sven. I think you're too hard on the shadow guv sometimes.

From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

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