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Topic: Good-bye white boys club
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Thehellyousay
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3996
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posted 22 April 2003 03:28 PM
I have had supervisors (both male and female) over the years, and cannot say which is better or worse.Women can be just as incompetent or capable as the men. The equipment might be different, but the human animal is still pretty consistent straight across the board. Probably not what the feminist wants to hear.
From: AB | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 23 April 2003 02:56 AM
My office consists of ten women, two and a half men (a part timer... not a victim of some freak cycling accident!). I'm not sure I'd call it "female positive" - more like "gender neutral". It's very employee positive, so I guess since everyone has a good thing going gender doesn't become an issue.I will confess though: it's nice working in an office where nobody punches me on the arm as a greeting, no one wants to yammer on about sports, and it doesn't smell like aftershave everywhere. And some of the conversations I'm privy to would curl your toes!
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Thehellyousay
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3996
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posted 23 April 2003 11:02 AM
So what is feminism about these days? You see so many POV, from those made by a ranting 235lb. lesbian to those put out by pretty ladies that actually have valid arguments and issues.Is there really any short 'text book' definition of feminism these days? I am new to this issue, and apologize in advance for my ignorance.
From: AB | Registered: Apr 2003
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 23 April 2003 11:21 AM
Who says 235 lb lesbians aren't "pretty ladies"? One of my dearest friends is a large, fabulous "femme". I'm sure if you suggested to her that she's not pretty, she would be shocked, since she knows darn well that she's hot stuff.I think I can safely say that most feminists agree that feminism isn't about stereotyping "types" of women. Some lesbians rant, others don't. Some "pretty ladies" have well thought-out arguments and others don't. Some feminist, ranting, 235 lb lesbians ARE pretty ladies. I'm always wary of people who talk about "ranting feminists", especially when they attach stereotypes to them based on looks or sexual orientation. Some feminists rant, others don't, but in my opinion, women have lots to rant about. If that threatens some men, too bad.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 23 April 2003 01:36 PM
quote: from those made by a ranting 235lb. lesbian to those put out by pretty ladies that actually have valid arguments and issues.
Hey, I'm a pretty, little straight thing, and I can rant with the best of 'em. Sometimes ranting is the only way to get your valid arguments and issues heard. And beauty, my friend, is in the eye of the beholder. You are no arbiter here. I've had a number of different supervisors and managers, over my varied careers and years, both male and female. I'd have to say, if I counted a majority, that I've tended to get on better with the men. Not that I haven't had some terrific women to work with -- I have. But I've also had some hellish experiences with women in management. The only supervisor who made me cry at work was a woman (I don't cry in public, generally. Not even at funerals). The only supervisor to actively campaign to fire me was female. And the only one to ever spread malicious gossip about me outside the context of my work was female. Not that the males have been perfect -- but usually all it takes is a single verbal zing, maybe two, we set it all straight and move on. If there's a problem, it's generally above-board and I can deal with it. Some women are able to do this, but we're still playing out the competitive roles we were taught as children, and I think that can be really destructive in a work environment. Now that I run my own company, though, I like to think that I am one of the good women bosses out there.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 23 April 2003 01:41 PM
quote: Men tend to be able to seperate work differences and personal differences, and women tend to take work personally.
I'm not denying, as dale says, that we haven't exactly reached gender-neutrality -- that there are gender-based cultures observable in many offices was, after all, the point of angela's opening post. But the line I've quoted above is so close to the assumption that I remember being made in offices I knew thirty years ago, in a much more openly sexist environment. That women take everything "personally" -- how far is that from fearing that women are going to get all emotional over things, omigod, how will we deal with that, I mean, feelings, the mess of it all, etc. I well remember that guys who blew up in the office were admired for being forthright and frank and ballsy, whereas the moment a woman tried the same thing, whispers began about how she couldn't take the pressure. How do we tell the genuine cultures, in their difference, from the assumptions and prejudices of the observers?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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sheep
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2119
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posted 23 April 2003 04:50 PM
I certainly don't think women are too hysterical to be in the workplace...I mean, who would clean hotel rooms, or take meeting minutes, or reorder coffee supplies if women weren't in the workforce? Skdadl, things have changed in the last thirty years, if you haven't noticed. Maybe it's your own prejudices coming into play here. Women taking their work more personally could also account for the fact that I often find it's the women colleagues of mine who will go the extra mile to deliver services to their clients, while some of the men are more apt to call it a day at 4:30 and leave it until tomorrow. I don't belive gender has any real bearing on an ability to perform a job, but different gender combinations in the workplace contribute to different workplace dynamics. And like Mr. Magoo, I'm privvy to a lot of workplace conversations that make me blush. I get a laugh whenever I read about the sterotypical "dirty joke telling" male dominated workplace. Male lockerroom talk is tame in comparison to coffee break discussions with a group of women!
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2002
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