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Topic: Hey, Judy Rebick! Make me Dinner!
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Entropy Squared
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4066
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posted 05 May 2003 01:00 AM
Hey, Judy Rebick! Make me Dinner!Written by Mark Fournier 2003-05-05 Freedom Institute Free Dominion Last week, in Augusta, Georgia, a small but determined group of feminists gathered to protest an all-male country club. The turnout was poor, consisting more of curiosity-seekers than actual supporters of the "oppressed" women golfers. The most interesting - and entertaining - part of the whole rally was not one of the planned events. Instead, it occurred when a young man got out of his car with a bright orange sign. On one side it said, "Iron my Shirt!" and on the other it said, "Make me Dinner!". I'm sure the effect of that orange sign on the feminist protestors was somewhat equivalent to the effect of a red cape on an angry bull. His stunt should surely be classed amongst the most dangerous of extreme sports! In any case, he survived his adventure, and he succeeded in proving a point as well. That young man's self-deprecating humour is typical of people on the right side of the political spectrum. And it is one of two main differences in debating style between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives rely heavily on humour and logic. Liberals tend to use neither. Right-wingers enjoy a good debate and they frequently poke fun at themselves as well as their opponents. Hysterical accusations and shrill rants from their opponents more frequently result in amusement than outrage. Hillary Clinton's paranoid ramblings of a Vast Right Wing ConspiracyTM were met with glee by her intended targets. Immediately, every conservative activist in the United States wanted to associate themselves with the VRWC. It is hard for the barbs of the left to damage their opponents when they are met with derisive laughter. The second hallmark of liberal debate, and the other main factor that differentiates left from right, is a lack of logic. It is apparent that many liberal debaters have chosen to replace logic with ad hominem attacks. For example, Warren Kinsella, who is billed as a Liberal "attack dog", relies almost exclusively on ad hominems. When he had the opportunity to debate Stockwell Day, the best he could do was to attack Mr. Day's creationist beliefs by presenting him with a stuffed Barney doll. When he wrote a column about Free Dominion, he resorted to characterizing us as "a far-right kook web site frequented by red-necked mouth-breathers". So much for reasoned logic. The typical liberal lack of humour and logic is especially apparent when one visits left-wing political web forums like the Democratic Underground, or Judy Rebick's rabble.ca. Conservatives who venture into those dens of virulent liberalism are typically roasted to a nice golden brown by the resident liberals before they are summarily and unceremoniously ejected from their midst. I believe that the reason for this is because liberals are so handicapped by their humour/logic deficit that they are incapable of defending their ideas in a fair text debate. I so firmly believe this, that I am willing to provide my political opponents with an opportunity to try to disprove it. The Challenge Free Dominion's left-wing counterpart is rabble.ca. As one of the operators of Free Dominion, I hereby issue a challenge to you, Judy Rebick, as the owner of rabble.ca. I am proposing a text debate on any subject at all, but preferably along the lines of feminism or socialism since you are the past president of NAC SOW. Judy, we are ideologically opposed on nearly every issue, so the field of discussion is wide open, and I will leave the topic choice to you. Yet I don't believe you have the courage to debate me in the unforgiving arena of text debate. I propose our debate be simultaneously posted on Free Dominion and rabble.ca so members of both sites can read them. Like a cyber-version of the duels of old, I am issuing you a gentleman's challenge. Since I am old-school, and would never hit a woman, I must forgo the traditional slap with the leather glove by delivering this challenge online. So, here it is... Judy, make me dinner! Or accept my challenge.
From: Edmonton, AB | Registered: May 2003
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Jacob Two-Two
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2092
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posted 05 May 2003 06:30 AM
Perhaps Mark might want to debate with someone a little more lightweight intellectually and work his way up to the likes of Judy. You can't just call out a boxing champ and expect him or her to show up in the ring at your convenience. Similarly, Judy is much too busy and high-profile of an activist and debater to waste her time on this fellow (who is he, exactly?). Why doesn't he start by trying to win any debate at all with any leftist whatsoever (assuming, of course, that he can)?As for this recurring fantasy that the right have a monopoly on both humour and logic, it's always seemed a little desperate to me. It has an inane religious quality to it, that seeks to place their version of reality above all others by attributing to themselves special powers of discernment that the rest of the human race lacks. Might I suggest that your arguments should stand on their own, apart from whatever adjectives you believe you can affix to them, that should somehow make them better just by virtue of affixing them there. Quite frankly, this portrayal of the left as illogical and humourless (something I've never noticed) seems to me to BE an ad-hominem attack, which is exactly what the author is decrying. For myself, I can say that I have met both logical and funny right-wingers (it didn't stop them from being wrong, but then that's the problem with logic. It's just a system, as open to abuse as any other) and plenty of the same on the left. I highly doubt that you will find a concentration of these qualities on either side. The example Mark uses is telling, however, of his own sense of both logic and humour. I don't think sheer provocation, by itself, is terribly funny. I'm sure the person with the sign had an awful chuckle with himself (as apparently, did Mark), but that's just because it obviously amuses him to goad feminists. It seems to me that if you weren't already of a negative disposition towards a group to the point that making them angry gave you pleasure, then there is little humour to be found in this sort of thing. If I were to go to a pro-life rally wearing a necklace of human fetuses, would Mark commend me? Would he say, "finally a leftist with a sense of humour!"? I kind of doubt it. I think whether or not you find these sorts of antics funny has a lot to do with the predjudices you are carrying around, and I say this admitting that I have taken similar pleasure from groups that I am negatively disposed to. But that didn't make the display legitimately funny. It just reflected my bigotry.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002
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dale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3201
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posted 05 May 2003 10:49 AM
Hmmmmmmm . . . piss off comes to mind.dale
From: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | Registered: Oct 2002
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 05 May 2003 11:05 AM
Yeah, but piss off ain't helpful.We should welcome the site admin from gun-totting-dominion.com. quote: When he wrote a column about Free Dominion, he resorted to characterizing us as "a far-right kook web site frequented by red-necked mouth-breathers". So much for reasoned logic.
See, one thing I never understood about the good posters at gun-toting-dominion.com was how they can't hear themselves speak. Sure, the "red-neck mouth breathers" might be a bit much, but the reasoned logic to the observation that it's a "far-right kook website" is airtight. The kooks complain about the ad hominem attacks while somehow overlooking that they make claims like "Liburawls are humourless and illogical," or don't refute the points made by someone like Hillary Clinton but summarily dismiss them as "paranoid ramblings". Liberalism is "virulent". And conservativism is bone headed, too stupid to be self-aware. Anyway, I enjoy this: quote: Like a cyber-version of the duels of old, I am issuing you a gentleman's challenge.
Let's not fight like girls, all tooth and nail. Let's be civil and like gentlemen. Hahaa… Pleeeeze! Humour and logic are apparently relative…
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214
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posted 05 May 2003 11:28 AM
It's long been a tactic of the right to understand their weakness' and accuse their detractors of just such offences.Clinton was a draft dodger; Bush, Chenney, Gingrich, Buchanan, Limbaugh, of "Operation Chickenhawk" fame weren't. And we were treated with the visage of Henry Hyde prosecuting Clinton for adultery-- with Gingrich's help. And of course there was all that attention paid to "Whitewater", when arms for hostages got swept under the carpet, and the Bush Rangers and Harkonen deal goes begging for attention. "Make them deny it" seems to be their strategy. It's a great cover for thier own crapulance.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001
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Scout
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1595
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posted 05 May 2003 11:41 AM
quote: On one side it said, "Iron my Shirt!" and on the other it said, "Make me Dinner!".
The assumption is made that he was actually joking, not serious. How do we know he was joking? To go out of ones way to create such a sign and crash a protest leads me to believe that he was more serious than not. Otherwise why bother? Unless your life is so shallow and meaningless that teasing protestors is how one gets their kicks. It’s kind of like issuing a challenge to the Admin/owner of a website. Because you feel that they should defend their views to you because…? There is no because, just sheer arrogance, and when you get ignored, you call cowardice. I mean really, why should Judy, or anyone waste there time debating you? I feel no need to educate you. And if I want to know what you think, I can seek you out. Mark, you poor fellow, your biggest problem is your ego. There is no good reason to accept your challenge. And some how you will run back to you little gang and crow about your victory. quote: Free Dominion's left-wing counterpart is rabble.ca. As one of the operators of Free Dominion, I hereby issue a challenge to you, Judy Rebick, as the owner of rabble.ca.
That’s like saying the counterpart of a fine red wine is CheeseWhiz. Free Dominion has a long way to go to be worthy as a counterpart to rabble. I think someone’s ego has gotten ahead of itself, full of self-importance and needing to say so!
From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Secret Agent Style
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2077
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posted 05 May 2003 11:59 AM
Here's what the wanna-be Republicans are saying about this in their little world. http://makeashorterlink.com/?U25242374 Boy, they sure are full of themselves. I think that Entropy character has some kind of repetitive disorder. I lost count of how many times he posted, "I bet she chickens out."
From: classified | Registered: Jan 2002
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oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130
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posted 05 May 2003 01:12 PM
I've discussed this before, but I don't think the following can be over emphasized!Pursuant to that very point, I dimly recall a relevant argument being made by the late Hugo Chalmondolay-Jones in his controversial prologue to a contemporary traslation of the novels of Balzac. As I'm sure you will recall, it was that particular polemic which later gave rise to the late 19th century "Movementarian Debates" which were to make the reputation of the then young Henri Le Compte de Chambord at the University of Nante. Personally I feel most strongly that this was given rather short shrift by later observers. That the crux of it all could not be less self evident, the aforesaid notwithstanding, is a point lost on several who, under other circumstances would at least nominally concur. The fulmination of the concept, or nexus, as it were, was regrettable in that it co-incided with the first publication of the plenery sessions containing the terms of the treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1918. Years later, Oberst Hoople, then a Major and aide to Graf von Hohenlohe, was quoted as saying "It's the laughter I'll remember". He was hanged days later. Clearly, the man had read his Clausewitz! Ah, but it's so easy to digress. My central point was given early support by none other than that outstanding parliamentarian Henry Campbell-Bannerman who championed the followers of Henry of Pelham, or "The Young Turks" as they came to be known among themselves, if not anywhere else. There were many evenings when the generous Mr. Campell-Bannerman would offer his home and his hospitality to this group for debates which would go long into the night. Heady days indeed. A gentleman of formidable erudition and emphatic views, after a few glasses of tawny port, he loved nothing better than to slip into Mrs. Campell-Bannerman's favourite lilac pinoir, throw open the upper windows, and shout out in full voice to all who would hear, "I AM THE PRETTIEST PRINCESS". The good citizens of Wackford-Buggbridge North continued to return the old gentleman to the house for many more terms, believing, quite rightly, that how he spent his weekends was his own affair. I trust this sheds some light on the matter. You're welcome Edit: I just wanted to add that I did my graduate studies in this very field, so I speak with some confidence! [ 05 May 2003: Message edited by: oldgoat ]
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001
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writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513
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posted 05 May 2003 02:18 PM
Judy Rebick was a host of Face Off for several years. Her co-host was Claire Hoy. They debated day after day, week after week, year after year. Guests included Andrew Coyne, John Nunziata (who called Claire a bleeding heart), Ezra Levant ... etc.Heck, years before, she put herself between a rabid knife-wielding anti-choicer and Henry Morganthaler. Rebick's been there. She's done all that. What does she need to prove to the likes of you? Make your own dinner. While you're eating it, watch reruns of Face Off. Pretend you are John Crispo or Grant Hill or Tony Clement or Jack Granatstein or Michael Bliss or Tom Flanagan or Michael Taube or Norm Gardner or Bill Robson or Barbara McDougall or John Snobelin or any of the many other right-wing guests Rebick went up against back in the day. [ 05 May 2003: Message edited by: writer ]
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002
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Black Dog
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2776
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posted 05 May 2003 05:02 PM
Me, I just love it when conservatives whinge on about all that's wrong with them big, bad "liberals", when most traits they ascribe to "us" are thriving amidst their own little nest of vipers (BTW, Free Dominion even has a section on their forum devoted exclusivly to the posting of ad hominems like this howler: I hate P.C bed wetting libruls. [/QUOTE] Ouch! So much for the vaunted "logic" and "rationalism" espoused by these jokers. Also they seem to spend an awful lot of time discussing rabble itself, which is kinda weird. Incidentally, how is carrying an anti-feminist sign at a femisnist gathering in any way quote: self deprecating
? About as hilarious as wearing a shirt saying "Jesus is a cunt" to an audience with the Pope.As for this "debate", I gotta ask: what exactly is in this for Judy? That's just my two cents. [ 05 May 2003: Message edited by: black_dog ]
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 06 May 2003 02:45 AM
I did something bad.. something I would never do on babble... I called kooks by thier real names: kooks.For those that might like to have fun.... well, E^2 provided the link to a thread... I respect too many people that argue different views here on babble... and none of the kooks are babblers.... edited: E^2's post to gun-toting-dominion.com of the original post in this thread had the background of "Bite me". I don't like to gloat, but I like going into the sticks... it's my natural habitat... [ 06 May 2003: Message edited by: clockwork ]
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 06 May 2003 03:06 AM
That was another thing... when your such a kook, does being left of the far right kookiness automatically qualify you as "socialist"? Like, I'm no socialist (although I admit I respect the socialist viewpoint) but to consider me, clockwork, a socialist in the league of Debbs (or Moore, or whoever)... I say, "whoa horsey!"But no, I'm just another "statist" bent on welfare domination because I'm left of the kookiness. Haha... Yeah, we liberals, Third Way types, Marxists, militant whos-its, I gotta admit... we are really all the same. Vote Liberal! Vote NDP! Vote communist! It's all the same!
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 06 May 2003 03:23 AM
Posted: 05/ 06/ 03 1:42 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Judy Rebick doesn't dare mess with Entropy Squared. She and her site are too chicken. Let's watch them cower from FD. Ah, yes.. again... as I claimed on babble, the kooks on this site can't hear themselves speak. When you guys squawk, does anyone listen? I mean, besides me, that likes to point out the how screwed up the kooks are?
Cowering, eh? Did none of you gun freaks take a look at the rabble thread that E^2 purported to challenge JR to debate? I didn't see your useless red-neck, mouth breathing, sorry asses in that thread. .. unlike me, that has the balls to leap to the dark side (nice colour scheme for your site.... Darth Vader would be proud). I called it on babble, and you useless retards only feed my superiority complex. Ohh.. JR doesnt want to debate... oh, the sysop at babble deleted my post... oh, I read fiction and it makes me feel better than all those real people I have to deal with in real life... Hey, I got a deal for you folk. I got this amazing peice of swampland in Florida at it's yours for only small stipend.... edited: I forgot who I was defending: not JD but JR. ---- Sorry... I want to record each post I make to kook's-'r-us.com... I wouldn't want them deleting my posts like they supposedly claim rabble does. edited: I'm bad, and I'm participating in bad behaviour... but I need a record, in case I get booted from gun-nuts.com... so when those good posters at freedominion.com claim censorship, we, (I use we in the expansive sense) have fire power against them. Board warz.. as they might say at Freed-.. kewl... [ 06 May 2003: Message edited by: clockwork ]
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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Secret Agent Style
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2077
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posted 06 May 2003 09:59 AM
quote: I think the originating post was satire and not intended to be taken serioulsy. I mean, no one would purposely attck their "opponents" as being given to ad hominen attacks while launching an argument that is itself nothing more than a lengthy ad hominen attack, would they?
It isn't satire. They really are that stupid over there. Check out this gem: quote:
Aside from the faint hope E2 may end up fencing with Canada's living example for the need for abortion, the [oh so ] tired leftist social bigotry, shrill obscenity and delusion this non event is wasting my time.
In the same sentence that this moron accuses leftists of being bigots and prone to obscenity, he says that Rebick should have been aborted. Amazing.[ 06 May 2003: Message edited by: Andy Social ]
From: classified | Registered: Jan 2002
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WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292
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posted 06 May 2003 10:14 AM
Oh, my. Of course, I am accustomed to the degree of hypocrisy which it would seem emanates almost unceasingly from our friends on the right.And why are they so shrill about the word shrill? Frankly, the very word itself is like finger nails on a blackboard to me. But they insist on using it in the most ... damn ... shrill manner possible. It is as if there is no word more fitted or appropriate to their vocabulary. And I will tell you one more thing that leaves me mystified. With all that is taking place in the world, joyous, momentus, catastrophic, dangerous, angelic and demonic, they are obsessed with those Canadians who vote NDP. Why? Oh, well, there are Elvis impersonators also.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001
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hibachi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 956
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posted 06 May 2003 11:14 AM
Although I am biased, I think that rabble's site works better than freedominion's. Rabble's pages do not take so long to load. I.e. they do not hog so much bandwidth.I also find the lightning bolt icons on the Free Dominion website to be evocative of the Nazi SS. Perhaps the principles of conservatism on free dominion's site are to be found in Mein Kampf. If they want to insult us and call us Liberals, it is only fair game that we should call them Nazis. If you want reactionaries with a sense of humour, you should look at where they do not take themselves seriously. And that surely is at Frank Magazine's forum. The last decent (serious) right wing forum was the National Post's old forum which has long since died. The idea that rabble.ca can be compared to the piece of garbage known as freedominion.ca is such an insult that I think that it makes no more sense for us to discuss it. Perhaps Audra can put her finishing touches on this thread sooner rather than later
From: Toronto, Ont. | Registered: Jul 2001
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Performance Anxiety
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3474
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posted 06 May 2003 01:46 PM
I think Judy should debate that clown. The topic of her choice?RECLAIM THE FRINGE! I'd like to see how the right-winger handles that topic. I'm sure he'd be like a fish out of water, and we could all have a great laugh as he fumbles about and makes an ass of himself. Betcha he thinks "fringe" means leftist political parties. Not any more, my friends! With the trademark in place it's now illegal to use the word "fringe" without permission from the CAFF. Guess the right will have to find another term for the NPIs, Ralph Naders, Bloc Pots, and UFPs...
From: Outside of the box | Registered: Dec 2002
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sophrosyne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4070
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posted 06 May 2003 02:10 PM
Entropy Squared : You want a debate? Anytime. I've laughed you down before, and if you care to step into the lion's den, I'll do it again. At least here on this board posts and private messages won't go "mysteriously AWOL or get edited, vulgar pictures won't "mysteriously" get inserted into posts, and user accounts won't "mysteriously" have passwords changed. I see that bigotry and close-mindedness is not welcomed with open arms as it is at FD. Nice change. I wouldn't have even known about this site if it weren't for the constant sneering insults directed by the hilariously self-righteous and hypocritical self-styled "principled" conservatives at FD. BEAR IN MIND : I was not banned from Free Dominion. I walked away in complete disgust at the completely unethical and unprincipled manner in which the so-called "Free Dominion" is managed, after vulgar picture were inserted "mysteriously" into my posts, my posts were edited and deleted, and many unfounded and hatefully false allegations were laid against me. If anyone is curious, please PM me and I'll direct you to the relevant links so you can make your own judgement(s). I'd rather not spill a FD streetfight onto rabble's more peaceful streets. Personally, I found it rather laughable how intensely obsessed Connie and ES are with on rabble: there are constant "updates" about how much "better" FD is supposedly doing than rabble. With graphs to boot! The extremism there is like a light for neo-con moths to flutter against. FD FYI is not a discussion board, it's a business. This "debate" charade is no more than a tired and transparent publicity stunt. I used to consider myself more right-leaning until I encountered the frightening and nauseating brand of bigoted, xenophobic, neo-fascism that so many self-labelled "neo-cons" ("con" being very appropriate might I add) infesting certain zones of the Internet. Are you willing or capable enough to debate the issues with a compassionate and principled centerist? Of couse, I fully expect you to decline, with excuses and insults and indignation. Cya later!
From: British Columbia | Registered: May 2003
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Jacob Two-Two
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2092
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posted 06 May 2003 02:33 PM
welcome to babble, sophrosyne. I hope your stay is long and profitable.And I applaud your stamina in taking Entropy's challenge. I was thinking of doing it, but I have a full life, and it's far too short to throw away that much time and effort to make a point to someone as impervious to reason as him. I assume entropy will be here to debate you posthaste. Unless he's CHICKEN!!! Buck, buck, b-cawwwk!! Hey, that is fun! I can see why you conservatives are so juvenile all the time. Maybe that's what they mean when they say that we have no sense of humour. We're not childish enough for them.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002
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sophrosyne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4070
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posted 06 May 2003 03:03 PM
Thanks for the welcome, Jacob Two-Two. quote: I hope your stay is long and profitable.[
Profitable? There's something in it for me? Awwwwright!!! Please send donations to... quote: I applaud your stamina in taking Entropy's challenge.
Nobody would need stamina for such a "challenge." Just a strong stomach and a sense of humor. Doug , I just dipped my toes in the feminist forum. I don't think they'll eat me alive. ...But if they do, I'd suggest a nice plum sauce to compliment the meal. I'll swing 'round later and check out the scene. Be good.
From: British Columbia | Registered: May 2003
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DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490
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posted 06 May 2003 04:26 PM
quote: Originally posted by grrril: conservatives have a self-deprecating sense of humour?? Since when?? Maybe this thread needs a new category-Fantasy. Conservative humour consists of taking cheap shots at anyone but white conservatives. Listen to a conservative joke and then look for who the butt of the joke is. The venom that spews from some of them is big enough to require their own postal code.
I agree. I was thinking about that this morning and it occurred to me that conservative "humor" or what passes for it has an uncomfortable "edge" to it that virtually requires a target that can't fight back. And sometimes the humor is just vicious in its intensity. It's why Rush Limbaugh does his mocking-whiny-liberal voice and why he holds up a picture of Chelsea Clinton and goes "The White House has a dog". It's why guys like G. Gordon Liddy can joke about federal agents and how shooting them in the face guarantees a kill.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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Andi_1
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4078
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posted 06 May 2003 04:34 PM
Hi there! Oh hey, look! A red-neck mouth-breather! Yoohoo Judy, where are you? See, FD'ers Do take up challenges. See, I showed up. Unlike Judy. Gee, is she on vacation? Is she sleeping in? Is she in the loo? [QUOTE="clockwork"]Ah, yes.. again... as I claimed on babble, the kooks on this site can't hear themselves speak. When you guys squawk, does anyone listen? I mean, besides me, that likes to point out the how screwed up the kooks are? Cowering, eh? Did none of you gun freaks take a look at the rabble thread that E^2 purported to challenge JR to debate? I didn't see your useless red-neck, mouth breathing, sorry asses in that thread. ..[/QUOTE]
From: Alberta | Registered: May 2003
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 06 May 2003 05:10 PM
Threadhas death wish ...
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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