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What I see happening is that the phone companies will eventually own VoIP. Taking over the business is a long process, but it has slowly begun here, and in Canada it's in full swing. The approach will be two-pronged: First the telcos will lock down their networks and phone numbers; then they'll promote the 911 connectivity issue. If you think your public utilities commission will do anything about it, forget it.

We're seeing the drama unfold openly in Canada now. The first salvo was when Telus, the biggest phone company in western Canada, told Shaw Cable that it wouldn't let the cable company implement its VoIP phone service to cable subscribers over the Telus network. This was followed by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission regulators telling the VoIP folks that they must have the same 911 services as normal phone companies.

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:
Maybe I'm missing something here--why do you need providers for this stuff?

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I'm missing the same thing. I've seen ads for VoIP and wondered what they were talking about. Why pay for something that one can use for free? A few years ago, techie enthusiasts were using VoIP over 28.8 modems. The phone companies were pissed, but there wasn't anything they could do about it. As far as I know, they couldn't even detect it. When long distance phone rates started coming down, VoIP sort of fizzled out.

Videotron has been offering it for a while in Quebec, and I believe Rogers is set to roll it out in Ontario next month. Bell will be offering it later this year, as well as TV over IP, which I believe is already available in the Maritimes and Manitoba.

The CRTC has decided to regulate VoIP, which puts the phone companies at a disadvantage, as rules are more flexible for new entries in the phone market (like Rogers, Videotron and Shaw) than for Telcos like Bell and Telus.

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
"New" VoIP is full-featured phone service using your existing phones and phone number. It's not P2P through your computer.

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I'm a dummy. So, why not? Why can't I install a VoIP client on my pc and use it to talk to anyone, anywhere? There's no need for anyone to know that I'm using a computer instead of a telephone. Is there? What has changed? Why do big companies want to create VoIP infrastructure? Isn't the Internet all the structure that's needed? What am I missing here?

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You can do that already using Skype for free. However you're restricted to using VOIP with other Skype users and "glued" so to speak to your computer.

They also have a "Skype-out" service where you use Skype to make the initial connection and then call a local telephone number. But for "Skype-out" they charge.

With the new "paid" services they are pretty much indistinguishable from using the old "switched" phone network. The other consideration is local 911 service. You only have to have used 911 service once to realize just how important it is.
CRTC regs require phone companies to provide this service.

In an unregulated environment I could see the VOIP providers not providing local 911 service.

In the beginning...sure there will be lots of competition for VOIP...but over the long haul...Bell, Telus, Rogers and maybe Videotron in Quebec will end up running the show just as they do in the cellphone business and pretty much in the broadband business.

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The Coming Death of Cheap VoIP? There is something far more serious then VoIP. The Coming Death of Cheap Oil is far more important and will affect our economy and destroy our way of life!!!!!! Our biggest concern will NOT be our telephones but how are we going to feed ourselves.

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Or I'm sure a rogue comet smashing into the earth or perhaps the Vogons obliterating the planet in order to build a hyper-space bypass.

[ 30 June 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]

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They also have a "Skype-out" service where you use Skype to make the initial connection and then call a local telephone number.

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Originally posted by radiorahim:
Or I'm sure a rogue comet smashing into the earth or perhaps the Vogons obliterating the planet in order to build a hyper-space bypass.

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And who's going to sanitize those phones, that's what I want to know?

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Originally posted by Cougyr:

But, why? We are using the phone lines (at least I am) to connect to the Net. So, why do we need a service to dial a number? Any fax program can do it. Why not VoIP?

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
And a service is also needed so that when someone dials 647-555-1234 it goes to your IP address instead of the regular phone service you used to have.

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Does it? That would assume that the receiver is connected. The advantage to me of VoIP would be if I could use my pc to make calls to any phone, anywhere, whether connected or not, thus by-passing the phone company at my end. It seems to me that the difficulty would be dialing remote locations without using the long-distance codes; one has to do that in order to avoid long-distance rates.

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
Cougyr you're talking about something else. This is phone service using the internet, not using a computer to communicate (which STILL requires a service or software). Dialling phone numbers has nothing to do with it.

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If a fax program can dial and receive calls, I see no reason that VoIP couldn't, unless one is connected by cable. From my pc, I can dial your phone number, if I know it. I don't care whether or not you use a pc or a telco handset to answer. My primary concern is long-distance rates. They are the issue.

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These are two completely separate systems...even though they use the same cabling.

Whenever you connect the POTS to IP you need some sort of software and/or hardware to make the two systems talk to each other.

For example, one time a couple of years ago, I procrastinated about paying my telephone bill...actually procrastinated long enough that they shut my phone off! But, even though my "POTS" was shut-off, my DSL service worked fine (my DSL service was paid-for...priorities eh?)...because they're two separate networks using different technologies.

If you want PC to PC VOIP for free then yes you can use a service like Skype...but its a bit limited. Its only free if the other person is running the Skype software and is online at the time.

If you want to connect Skype to the POTS, that'll cost you money...and you can't use Skype to call your local 911 operator. That's because the Skype service doesn't "know" where you are.

With the new VOIP services you don't need a computer. You just need a highspeed internet connection of some kind. You can phone someone whether they're on IP or on POTS and the telephone will ring at the other end. You can also use your VOIP phone to place a local 911 call. This system does "know" where you are.

Was talking to someone a couple of days ago who's using Vonage. Apparently with Vonage if you call someone who's also a Vonage user its free because you're on the same network. Also if you move you have to let them know so that they can switch your 911 service to the correct local area.

The word "modem" is a short form for "modulator demodulator" You make an analogue telephone call (POTS) to an ISP, it connects, does a "handshake"...why all that funny noise...and it connects you to the IP network.

When you're sending a fax, its basically the same process, just a different protocol.

Cable TV coaxial cable can also carry more than one service...i.e. analog television, IP and now various digital TV services. That's why in theory anyway...IP over cable TV coax is faster than DSL services.

And of course fibre optic cable allows you to cram the most data on the system, but it will be decades before we see fibre to the home because fibre optic cable is incredibly expensive and there are lots of engineering difficulties involved.

For example, you have to be extremely careful when you "bend" it. If you think of all the twists and turns that your telephone "twisted pair" or your cable TV coax makes in a typical household, you know what I mean!

In the U.S., the Bush administration has been pushing a thing called "broadband over powerlines" where they run IP through the electric power cabling. But like anything the Bush administration is pushing...its a really stupid idea...and its been a disaster. If you do a search, you'll find some of my old posts from a year ago on this.

[ 30 June 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]

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I have a suspicion that the real problem isn't technical, it's (as this thread started out) that the big corporate players want more than their share of the $$$$.

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Of course...because they can roll out a new service without really having all that much in the way of new infrastructure to build.

Rolling out the POTS network across Canada took what...40-50 years? Rolling out the cable TV network so that it covered most of the country was done in maybe 10 years....they didn't have to install poles for instance because they just used existing telephone poles.

There's some fibre (underground) usually in the downtown areas of major cities but that's about it.

VOIP allows for a new service to be established using the "mix" of POTS, cable TV coax, fibre, satellite and microwave relays that's already in place. It won't take all that long to recoup the capital investment costs and then its pure gravy.

Mind you in the early stages VOIP will have its technical difficulties...VOIP does have a slight time lag...when its working well its not all that noticeable but at other times you will notice...kind of like streaming audio.

Also, there will be times when calls "break up" due to network congestion.

There will be a whole bunch of "little players" in the beginning and then the giants will move in. Some of the little players will go broke, others will be bought out by the big guys and only the giants will remain standing.

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Open source?

This isn't computer software. It's PHONE service that uses the internet as a platform instead of the old analog system.

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Open source is a method of working and is not confined to software development. You can have open source hardware too. Wikipedia isn't software, its an open source online encyclopedia. Thousands of folks collaborate over the internet to write the articles.

I've heard of folks working on an open source car, open source radios etc.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
We should be even more wired than what we are in Canada.

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
Open source?

This isn't computer software. It's PHONE service that uses the internet as a platform instead of the old analog system.

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Found this article on ZDNet doing a quick google.

Open-source VoIP 'will be bigger than Linux'

Also, there's this project:

Asterisk.org

Off the top of my head, I would think it would be a rather simple project to have a bunch of Linux servers scattered all over the world and you'd just be able to connect to them and dial-out a local call.

If I spent some time googling, would probably find someone who's already doing it.

Here's another article:

VoIP Howto

[ 01 July 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]

A media gateway controller handles the registration and management of resources at at least one media gateway. A media gateway controller exchanges a broader IXC(inter-exchange switch signalling used to setup and tear-down telephone calls - digital) central office switches via a signaling gateway(or iow's, a dedicated terminal sometim3es called a "softswitch").

A Signaling gateway provides transparent signaling between switched telephone circuits and IP networks. The signaling gateway may terminate what's known as SS7 signaling(SS7 is the overall, world-wide backbone carrier protocol for PSTN and carried IP, voice etc as well as all control signalling) or translate and relay messages over an IP network to a media gateway controller or another signaling gateway. Several signalling gateways are needed as a rule to ensure access to more and more users. The PSTN has always operated on the basis that only a certain percentage of all users will ever go off-hook and demand dial tone from the central office tone generators. Theoretically, if everyone went off-hook at once in the same region serviced by a local exchange switch, and there are so many customers handled by a single TDM interface at the local office, the system would be in overload...crash/calls dropped and bad day in general.

So yes, whether a call originates at a PC or an IP phone, cable modem service over coaxial cable, DSL or cellular, it eventually has to access the PSTN or plain old telephone system for call routing over the big picture SS7 network using some sort of access modem or terminal, usually a head-end modem at the service provider who leases dedicated trunk lines. Without SS7 and its country-specific variants, the world would explode, armaggedon or worse.

This site has some nice flash tutorials on VoIP. Scroll down to the MGCP versus SIP - explains the above better than I can and graphically. Just keep in mind that GR303 is a set of rules that switch manufacturers adhere to for accessing the Public Switched Network in North America. Everywhere else in the world(except Australia and Japan) the ITU rule book for access is V5

[ 01 July 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]

The audio quality is "so-so" and there's a definite "delay" that you've got to get used to so that you don't end up talking over each other.

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Originally posted by radiorahim:
The audio quality is "so-so" and there's a definite "delay" that you've got to get used to so that you don't end up talking over each other.

Not quite "normal" telephone quality but hey...its cheap.

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Yesterday we made two calls to Victoria from Ottawa. Both calls where as good as on our normal phone. Although as our normal phone doesn't sound great that isn't saying alot. I'm betting the quality would really depend on your internet connection and the traffic between you and the skype servers.

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Originally posted by Albion1:
The Coming Death of Cheap VoIP? There is something far more serious then VoIP. The Coming Death of Cheap Oil is far more important and will affect our economy and destroy our way of life!!!!!! Our biggest concern will NOT be our telephones but how are we going to feed ourselves.

See www.fromthewilderness.com for further info.

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Got another Skype-out call from "across the pond" today and the quality seemed a little better.

I'm guessing that since Skype uses P2P technology that the more folks use it the more peers there are and therefore the better the quality.

Must get my Skype setup! Its a "standard" package that's included with both Xandros Linux and Mepis Linux these days....you have to download and install it on Window$...dig dig...

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Originally posted by Albion1:
There is something far more serious then VoIP. The Coming Death of Cheap Oil is far more important and will affect our economy and destroy our way of life!!!!!! Our biggest concern will NOT be our telephones but how are we going to feed ourselves.

See www.fromthewilderness.com for further info.

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Wind power, nuclear power, hydrogen power, solar power...all will need to be tapped when the oil spigot runs dry. And, the sooner the better. The Arabs can then eat sand and rue the lost opportunity they had for seventy years to make something of lasting value of their failed economies.

[ 01 August 2005: Message edited by: ItsMrAHole2U ]