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Author Topic: Michael Pollan on nutritionism
Boom Boom
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posted 29 January 2007 05:44 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found this interesting (it's a long article)
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 January 2007 06:03 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank for posting this, Boom Boom. I particularly got a chuckle out of these two paragraphs, because it's so true!

quote:
Consider what happened immediately after the 1977 “Dietary Goals” — McGovern’s masterpiece of politico-nutritionist compromise. In the wake of the panel’s recommendation that we cut down on saturated fat, a recommendation seconded by the 1982 National Academy report on cancer, Americans did indeed change their diets, endeavoring for a quarter-century to do what they had been told. Well, kind of. The industrial food supply was promptly reformulated to reflect the official advice, giving us low-fat pork, low-fat Snackwell’s and all the low-fat pasta and high-fructose (yet low-fat!) corn syrup we could consume. Which turned out to be quite a lot. Oddly, America got really fat on its new low-fat diet — indeed, many date the current obesity and diabetes epidemic to the late 1970s, when Americans began binging on carbohydrates, ostensibly as a way to avoid the evils of fat.

This story has been told before, notably in these pages (“What if It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie?” by Gary Taubes, July 7, 2002), but it’s a little more complicated than the official version suggests. In that version, which inspired the most recent Atkins craze, we were told that America got fat when, responding to bad scientific advice, it shifted its diet from fats to carbs, suggesting that a re-evaluation of the two nutrients is in order: fat doesn’t make you fat; carbs do. (Why this should have come as news is a mystery: as long as people have been raising animals for food, they have fattened them on carbs.)



From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 29 January 2007 06:10 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, wasn't that amazing? I have a relative who put himself and his whole family on Atkin's, and frankly, they stink. I don't visit them anymore - I think they're killing themselves on basically a red meat and eggs diet (supplemented by garden veggies, thankfully).

ETA: I think it's the Atkins diet - is that the one with a high dependence on meat?

[ 29 January 2007: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 January 2007 06:17 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, that's the one. And there are precious few "garden veggies" allowed on it, too. Unless you like lettuce.

I'm still reading the article. It's long, as you say, but very interesting. And he's so right about the government (and medical associations) being in the pockets of powerful meat and dairy lobbyists. Heaven forbid you should actually give people good advice about eating meat and dairy in strict moderation, if at all.


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Boom Boom
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posted 29 January 2007 06:29 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks. That family really reeks. I'm not kidding - they stink. I almost have to hold my nose around them, which is why I don't visit anymore. They have the worse B.O. I've ever encountered (Atkin's doesn't allow veggies? That's just plain weird).
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 January 2007 07:38 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They allow SOME veggies (the kind that are mostly water, not hearty or sweet ones like peas, corn, or tomatoes) but severely restrict the rest, and fruit is seen as the devil because it's sweet. I mean, they don't say never eat them ever again, but you can't during the first phase of the diet, and they're severely restricted even once you get to the point of maintenance.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 29 January 2007 08:21 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a good essay, especially on the politicalization of food (from beef and dairy farmers especially). I'm glad I don't live in the US.
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Boom Boom
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posted 29 January 2007 08:46 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a great article, and I especially like this:

8. Cook. And if you can, plant a garden. To take part in the intricate and endlessly interesting processes of providing for our sustenance is the surest way to escape the culture of fast food and the values implicit in it: that food should be cheap and easy; that food is fuel and not communion. The culture of the kitchen, as embodied in those enduring traditions we call cuisines, contains more wisdom about diet and health than you are apt to find in any nutrition journal or journalism. Plus, the food you grow yourself contributes to your health long before you sit down to eat it. So you might want to think about putting down this article now and picking up a spatula or hoe.


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M.Gregus
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posted 15 February 2007 08:21 AM      Profile for M.Gregus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rabble's food special, which includes a review of Pollan's book The Omnivore's Dilemma, continues discussion about how to be a conscientious omnivore. From Moira Farr's review:

quote:
But what exactly does “organic” mean these days anyway? Does the image of contented hens clucking away in the open air over antibiotic-free feed match with the reality of government-approved “free range?” Perhaps the pigs that supplied the bacon experienced some barnyard bliss as they grew fat on a small family farm, but what were the actual conditions of their last moments, when many jurisdictions require the farmer to send his livestock elsewhere for slaughter? And just how “fair” are the trading conditions for fair-trade farmers in developing countries?

[ 15 February 2007: Message edited by: M.Gregus ]


From: capital region | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Farmpunk
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posted 15 February 2007 09:43 AM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't want to be a smug prick, but I've been telling Babblers to read The Omnivor's Dilemma for quite a while now. It's a big book but a very fast read. He covers diets, including the Atkins diet, in the book.
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Michelle
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posted 15 February 2007 09:56 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some vegan points of view on the book.

And another one.

quote:
Unfortunately, in addition to strawman potshots at vegetarians and the animal rights philosophy, Pollan bases his conclusions on falsehoods and debunked claims, as pointed out in Erik Marcus’ review (first Spotlight review here). For example, Pollan contends that vegetarians don’t really save animals, based on an article by Stephen Davis that was shown to be totally wrong in the Journal of Agricultural and Environmental Ethics.

It could be argued that Pollan is reaching new people with descriptions of factory farming that people like Singer, Goodall, and Marcus won’t reach. As we’ve written, “When it comes to advocating for the animals, people are looking for a reason to ignore us – no one sits around thinking, ‘Wow, I really want to give up all my favorite foods and isolate myself from my friends and family!’” So it is unlikely that a large number of people are going to buy and read a book that says they need to become a vegetarian.

On the other hand, what does Pollan’s ultimate message (“Eat ‘humane’ meat” / “Vegetarians are anti-social fanatics”) accomplish? Pollan goes out of his way to badmouth and ridicule the possibility of being vegetarian: “the subtle way it alienates me from other people and… a whole dimension of human experience” (e.g., “cultural traditions like the Thanksgiving turkey, or even franks at the ballpark, and family traditions like my mother’s beef brisket at Passover”).


Sounds like bullshit to me. I think I'll give the book a pass.

[ 15 February 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Banjo
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posted 15 February 2007 10:07 AM      Profile for Banjo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I tried the link posted here, I didn't get the complete article. So I found this summary of the principals which contains a better link to the whole article.

Being a vegetarian for moral reasons, I'm not going to follow his advice to 'eat like an omnivore,' but it mostly sounds sensible.

Do you have a link to the book you mentioned, FP?


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M.Gregus
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posted 15 February 2007 10:44 AM      Profile for M.Gregus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Banjo, I found this version of the link posted above, which might work without having to subscribe to the NY Times online.

quote:
Unfortunately, in addition to strawman potshots at vegetarians and the animal rights philosophy, Pollan bases his conclusions on falsehoods and debunked claims, as pointed out in Erik Marcus’ review (first Spotlight review here).

That's really disappointing. Not having read it, my understanding of its premise was that it deconstructs and traces the agricultural, environmental, health, and larger societal consequences of average (as well as not so average) North American meals, most of which are omniverous. I thought that Pollan took the omnivore position as a starting point because that happened to the default North American position, without using it as a basis of condemnation for animal rights and its supporters (vegetarians, vegans, etc). That's just cheap, and undermines his so-called journalistic objectivity. Too bad, I thought the book would be better.


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Farmpunk
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posted 15 February 2007 03:58 PM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Before this turns into another fun thread on food and farming, can I please make the comment that people should really read books for themselves. Make up your own minds.

Now...


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Papal Bull
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posted 15 February 2007 04:13 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Farmpunk:
people should really read books for themselves. Make up your own minds.

Pft, D-503. You've been spending too much time with that rascal I-330.

I've been going vegetarian this month, actually. I mean, I eat fish (because I'm a student and have cans of tuna/salmon sitting around that, quite frankly, I can't afford to not eat), eggs (once a week at most, but still...), but I really do feel better. I've lost a good deal of weight and still feel pretty good (for the first time in three years I'm under 220lbs) and I have a lot of energy. I think rather than becoming an out and out vegetarian any time soon I'm just going to massively cut down on my meat consumption. There is nothing like fried mushrooms, sauteed onions, bbq'd peppers served with a pinch of salt and spices on a big plate of cous-cous. Plus, it is fairly cheap - a big plus for the student in me...or I am, rather.


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Farmpunk
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posted 15 February 2007 04:19 PM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle, the second of your links was a good read. I liked this paragraph:

"His option is to eat meat from “humane” operations, like Polyface Farms (his main example). Yet accommodating a diet of “humane meat” is a practical impossibility for virtually everyone; e.g., there isn’t a humane option at even 1% of restaurants. And Pollan points out that Polyface isn’t looking to expand."

But I assume I like it for much different reason than the author intended.

Pollan gives an overview of how food production works Right Now. That is where the focus of any discussion of the book starts and ends.

Is Pollan meat centric? Not really, to me. Because all he says is that people have to consider where their meat comes from and why they're eating it. Don't argue that the man has wrote a book that will touch a lot of readers, and then discount the many obvious implied anti-meat themes of the book.

Look, I have meat loving friends who think hunting is barbaric. Break it down for mindless meat eaters. Make it real. I know exactly where meat comes from. I suggest that reading Pollan's book will cause a lot of meat eaters to at least consider some points that they otherwise wouldn't realize existed. Steaks come from living animals, and stuff like that. The modern supermarket buying experience alone removes people from where their food comes from (usually a transport truck).

Get with it, for fuck's sake. Quibble the fine points after the bigger issues are dealt with. Don't bash a book that is going to eventually help "your" side.

[ 15 February 2007: Message edited by: Farmpunk ]

[ 15 February 2007: Message edited by: Farmpunk ]

[ 15 February 2007: Message edited by: Farmpunk ]


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 15 February 2007 04:33 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dude, unnecessary last lines. I was with you up til' then.
From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 16 February 2007 12:12 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So we're anti-social fanatics who have isolated family and friends? What an ass. I give it a pass as well. I am so sick of vegetarian/vegan hatred from certain people. Really makes me realize who really has the problem, and why that problem exists. I have my own theories on the latter.
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jrose
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posted 31 October 2008 08:02 AM      Profile for jrose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michael Pollan's open letter to the next President.
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Michelle
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posted 31 October 2008 08:29 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Farmpunk loves me now.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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