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Author Topic: The Iranian Nine
jeff house
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posted 22 July 2008 10:54 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran has sentenced eight women and one man convicted of adultery to death by stoning, activists said Sunday.


A lawyer and women's rights activist, Shadi Sadr, said the nine, who are between 27 and 50 years old, were convicted of adultery in separate cases in different Iranian cities. Trial protocol was not applied properly in the cases, she said.


Six of the nine were convicted based solely on judges' decisions with no witnesses or the presence of their lawyers during their confessions, said Sadr, who has been leading a campaign in Iran against stoning deaths.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/iran_stoning_sentences

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: jeff house ]


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 22 July 2008 11:01 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jebus! Glad I don't live in Iran. I would have been dead years ago.
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 22 July 2008 11:05 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So would we all.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 22 July 2008 12:45 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Really Jeff? I have never seen you say anything that puts you outside the boundaries of the reigning ideology. Sometimes at the boundary, but never beyond that. There are plenty of lawyers in Iran who push at the margins of what is ideologically acceptable without running afoul of the law. You are putting yourself in that category of persons who can be qualified as a dissident?

That is an insult to dissent. I do see that you are very good at expressing opposition to tyrrany... when it is "over there," anyone can do that, and in fact they do just that in Iran all the time, and no one gets busted in Tehran for condemning the "Great Satan."

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 22 July 2008 12:53 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ooh! someone took the bait!

Good one, Jeff!


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 22 July 2008 01:05 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, I see, I'm a sucker or something? Because I think this is a barbaric form of punishment by a misogynistic government? I'm only allowed to criticize stuff "over here"?

Jeez, might as well throw away my education.


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 22 July 2008 01:07 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't say anything about you SG. I was talking to Jedd.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 22 July 2008 01:08 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
Oh, I see
No, you don't see at all.

House was trolling for a reaction. The one you gave was not the one he wanted to elicit.

Cueball provided that.

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 22 July 2008 01:09 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
They need the Shah's son in power! He will carry on the Pahlavi tradition of brutalizing the people and absconding with billions of dollars of oil money to welcoming arms of banksters in America! Freedom and democracy is great! It's either that or militant Islam. Choose wisely Iranians!
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 22 July 2008 01:11 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No. What I did was use this opportunity to express an idea about hegemony.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 22 July 2008 01:18 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would think that Jeff should like the theocracy in Iran since the first thing they did after the revolution was kill all the left wing and communist allies that helped them over throw the Shah. If I remember it was France that sent the murderous cleric back to Iran and no western power cared about the lefties being murdered.

I think Iran needs to be condemned for this type of behaviour as does Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan since they too have the death penalty for crimes that should not be crimes, such as adultery. These Iranians remind me of Roundheads, murderous bastards driven by theology to try to enforce their views on everyone else in the society. Like Cromwell they even have the audacity to claim to be in favour of a democracy but their democracy is based on religion fundamentalism and religious persecution.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 22 July 2008 01:20 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Really Jeff? I have never seen you say anything that puts you outside the boundaries of the reigning ideology.

I have.


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 22 July 2008 01:24 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Define "Reigning Ideology" please since without a reasonably precise definition who could tell.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 22 July 2008 01:29 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Will do. Watch the bouncing ball.

quote:
Originally posted by Pogo:

I have.


You mean like Shadi Sadr is pursuing a campaign against the punishment of stoning, and defending persons accused of adultery on technicalities, without risking his life? This is what Jeff was implying was at stake. As we can see Sadr is operating within the limits of sanctioned legal activity within the state of Iran, without facing such a risk. Sadr's legal opposition, is not at all unlike the legal movement to prevent US war resisters from being returned to the US. Both are good things, to be sure. In most societies there is a margin of allowable opposition, that does not qualify as dissent. But Jeff poses this equation as if any opposition or disagreement to the manner in which justice is performed is an automatic death sentence.

However, Jeff poses that he (or anyone of us, apparently) would be put to death for engaging even in marginal opposition to the state. This is a politcized distortion.

Clearly he is wrong in this case, apparently lawyers in Iran can engage in similar kinds of civil opposition, as Jedd engages in Canada, within clearly prescribed boundaries, without fear of capital punishment.

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Robespierre
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posted 22 July 2008 01:32 PM      Profile for Robespierre     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Below is an example of a forum post without a written comment from the poster. The objective of contributing the post is left open to debate.
---


From: Raccoons at my door! | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 22 July 2008 01:33 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Robespierre:
Below is an example of a forum post without a written comment from the poster. The objective of contributing the post is left open to debate.
---


lol


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 22 July 2008 01:51 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well that was helpful. Half of this thread consists of a kind of meta-trolling about trolls. Weird.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 22 July 2008 01:57 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Well that was helpful. Half of this thread consists of a kind of meta-trolling about trolls. Weird.

That is the nature of starting a thread where there is no focus from the original poster. It often is used as a trolling technique as Robespierre I believe was highlighting.

From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 22 July 2008 02:09 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I should think that the response to that would be no response. I hardly see how filling up a thread with posts about trolling serves any purpose. Nothing better to do? Now we have a discussion about the relationship between dissent and the state, and hegemony and what we mean by "ruling ideology," ours and theirs.

Just because there is a certain lattitude in civil legal discourse, does that indicate the existance of democracy, and if so how much? Jeff seems to think there is a quantifiable difference between the manner in which society is managed in the USA and how it is in Iran. How does he establish this idea, outside of reffering to a few standard tropes?

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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Babbler # 11323

posted 22 July 2008 02:21 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stoning's too good for them.

Waste of good stones.

Long live the Islamic Theocratic Stone-Age Republic of Iran!

That's what the Communistic Party told me to say.

How am I doing, on a scale of 1 to 10?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 22 July 2008 02:27 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
By the way, all those Western White Christian Crusaders who are Oh So Morally Superior to the Iranian Fanatics should take note of the fact that stoning comes straight from the friggin' Bible, and those who do NOT use stoning as the punishment for various prescribed offences will burn in friggin' Hell forever.

So, here it is - get your stones ready, folks, cuz here's where the Bible requires stoning as a punishment:

quote:

1. For touching Mount Sinai Exodus 19:13
2. For taking "accursed things" Joshua 7:1-26
3. For cursing or blaspheming Leviticus 24:16
4. For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough) Deuteronomy 22:23-24
5. For animals (like an ox that gores a human) Exodus 21:28
6. For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night Deuteronomy 22:13-21
7. For worshipping other gods Deuteronomy 17:2-5
8. For preaching the wrong religion Deuteronomy 13:5-10
9. For disobeying parents Deuteronomy 21:18-21
10. For witches and wizards Leviticus 20:27
11. For giving your children to Molech Leviticus 20:2
12. For breaking the Sabbath Numbers 15:32-56
13. For cursing the king 1 Kings 21:10

From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 22 July 2008 02:33 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bleedin' hell. Bring back the Dark Ages!
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 22 July 2008 03:02 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
By the way, all those Western White Christian Crusaders who are Oh So Morally Superior to the Iranian Fanatics should take note of the fact that stoning comes straight from the friggin' Bible, and those who do NOT use stoning as the punishment for various prescribed offences will burn in friggin' Hell forever.

So, here it is - get your stones ready, folks, cuz here's where the Bible requires stoning as a punishment:



I suppose I'll start to see an equivalence when I turn on CBC and see a stoning for adultery by Christians at BMO Field in TO.

From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 22 July 2008 03:22 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:

I suppose I'll start to see an equivalence when I turn on CBC and see a stoning for adultery by Christians at BMO Field in TO.

We don't need to. We prop up savage governments elsewhere - Saudi Arabia somersaults to mind. Until they get uppity. Then we call in U.S. air strikes to murder civilians.

Let's face it, we're just superior folk. We call ourselves Christians/Jews, but we see it all as a metaphor. These pathetic inferior types take it literally. That gives us the latitude to either prop them up or murder them, as convenience dictates.

God, do I ever love us!


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 22 July 2008 03:24 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just call myself Canadian. I'm too damn lazy to be religious.

I'd be happy if the House of Saud was replaced by an elected body and government.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 22 July 2008 03:26 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:

I'd be happy if the House of Saud was replaced by an elected body and government.

But in the meantime, you will also be happy to prop it up. And there's the rub.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
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posted 22 July 2008 03:36 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'll cancel my monthly donation.

And until we stop buying Saudi oil, we all are propping them up.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 22 July 2008 03:40 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
And until we stop buying Saudi oil, we all are propping them up.

I could be wrong - but I believe we have enough oil in Canada to feed ourselves. Again, I'm not an expert, and I could be way off base here.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 22 July 2008 03:41 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not without the Evil (tm) Tarsands.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 22 July 2008 03:41 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Even without. Shut 'em down!
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
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posted 22 July 2008 03:42 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good idea. We didn't need all those employed easterners anyways.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 22 July 2008 03:49 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
Good idea. We didn't need all those employed easterners anyways.

Unemployment is definitely preferable to tar sands. We are in agreement.

ETA:

The year is 2050.

"Gramma, how come we have no jobs and the climate has changed?"

"Well, when we lost our jobs in the auto industry, Grampa and I had to move west to Fort Mac. The rest is history."

"Thanks for the legacy."

"No problem"

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 22 July 2008 04:22 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
So would we all.

What Jeff appears to be saying is that he has been adulterous, and speculates that most of us here have also. Personally, I think that too many people here have never gotten any and are unlikely to until they get offline lives.

All that notwithstanding, this is currently the dumbest thread going.

[ 22 July 2008: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 22 July 2008 04:59 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ASctually, on second thought I think I'll just close it because it's not going to go anywhere good.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged

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