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Author
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Topic: Lipstick liberates Afghani women (?)
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Mohamad Khan
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1752
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posted 17 October 2002 09:09 PM
Afghani Lipstick Liberation quote:
A controversial project plans to provide the women of Afghanistan with a Western beauty school. Built in Kabul, the parlour will be funded with American money, and will use make-up donated by several top cosmetic companies. The aim of the school is to train Afghan women not only in the arts of cutting hair and beauty, but also business. "We have devised a programme from perms and hair colouring through to business book keeping," project worker Patricia O'Connor told the BBC World Service.
good? bad? irrelevant?
From: "Glorified Harlem": Morningside Heights, NYC | Registered: Nov 2001
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 17 October 2002 09:46 PM
Maybe absurd on the face of it, but maybe also inevitable. And Kabul prior to the Taliban -- even under the Russians -- was a somewhat Westernized city, with women working professional jobs, etc. Something of a return to that, it sounds like.Edited to add: I should have read the story first. "Raising self esteem," eh? Well, I dunno. That's a phrase that always sets off my grumpiness meter. And the story suggests women are keeping to burqas because they cover up their "unfashionable" clothing. I'd like to know how much that's true, and how much they're simply afraid of the new bosses. [ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: 'lance ]
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 18 October 2002 10:08 AM
On the other hand, maybe that's the kind of business that the women WANT to run. Sure, lipstick and haircuts are superficial, but how many women on babble have gone without them for years on end? How many women on babble have completely forsworn any kind of physical adornment?Seems to me that these women will have to learn reading and math skills in order to get their beauty salons up and running. Not to mention that during the more cosmopolitan days of Kabul, a lot of the city women were fashion plates. Many Iranian women are the same way - love fashionable clothes and make-up, and wear them under their chadors. I think this is a great business idea. [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Michelle ]
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873
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posted 18 October 2002 10:45 AM
This whole thing reeks of cultural imperialism, and is not much more enlightened than the Taliban regime when it comes to women.Hey, I like cosmetics and getting my hair done, and girly clothes and lingerie and stuff, and just because a salon wouldn't be my choice of business doesn't mean it isn't a viable and respectable way to make a living. But really. In Afghanistan women have organized into activist groups that have expressed the desire to have a say in how their country is rebuilt. Because the same kind of sexist shit that says their self-esteem (and ours, here in the west) has to be based on a North American ideal of physical attractiveness is the kind of garbage that keeps women covered so that men won't be tempted to "sinful" thoughts and deeds by exposure to women's "sexually charged appearance" is prevalent in Afghanistan, women aren't being included in important decision-making in any significant way, they aren't significantly contributing to the new government (a US puppet regime with a history of atrocities against Afghani people), they aren't having their most basic needs met any more readily than they did under the Taliban. Meanwhile, US-based corporations and multi-nationals can't wait to sink their teeth into the new market that's being prepared for them by "charitable" donations from cosmetic companies. And a question about the article - why do we get the fullsome perspective, not to mention the name of every supporter of this project, both Afghani and American, individual and corporate, but the one person who represents a dissenting voice, the "spokesperson" Women's Alliance for Peace and Human Rights in Afghanistan remains nameless, and gets a one line blurb. "Women need midwives, then mascara". The most important thing said in the whole piece is buried in an umarked grave. [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001
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angela N
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2705
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posted 18 October 2002 10:46 AM
Hey Michelle, I see your point. Some training is better than no training, but I dislike the message it sends. quote:
"Just because we were 24 years at war does that mean that we are not good enough to be beautiful?" she asked.
good enough to be beautiful?... implies that you need to be a better kind of person in order to gain access to beauty... It also implies that they are not already beautiful, and in order to be so they must do it in a way that makes Mac and Revlon money... sure they are giving this stuff away for the moment... but eventually there will be a market and a demand... I don't argue that it is essential for women to find a niche where they can prosper and do well, but why isn't it healthcare, or education. Why does if have to be ways in which we can make ourselves "pretty". [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: angela N ]
From: The city of Townsville | Registered: May 2002
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Shenanigans
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2993
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posted 18 October 2002 11:31 AM
How utterly frustrating! I understand the need for a lot of the women over there to have jobs, but it another way to divide and conquer the women over there. Distract them so they won't necessarily be as interested in having a say in rebuilding their country. Tell them that now it's good to spend your spare change on makeup to impress Mr. X instead of putting into education, health, women's organisations!!! I did a paper last year and researched that in 2000, over 1 million women in the US had plastic surgery. Now even if all those procedures were as low $100.00 a head (pardon the pun) think of all the money that went into the pockets of mainly MEN in some form or another, that could have gone into shelters, or feminist movements, or schools. Can you imagine how much money women here spend on cosmetics per year? Even I the minimalist probably spends at least $100.00 per year (just spent $29.00 on a perfume from the Body Shop) and I know women who spend that much a month! Consider me frustrated with myself, and with this whole situation... Shenanigans
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lima Bean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3000
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posted 18 October 2002 03:09 PM
out with the burqa, in with the lipstick and rouge?Either way, these women are still going to be subject to social systems that devalue a woman's innate worth and sense of self. Now it'll just be the same system that we Westerners deal with... The business management aspect of the project seems quite valuable, though. I hope that's the focus and that the make-up freebies are secondary to the practical, useful education involved. [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Lima Bean ]
From: s | Registered: Aug 2002
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 18 October 2002 03:33 PM
I was lucky enough to visit Nicaragua under the Sandinista government, and to be able to meet a lot of the top leadership. To a one, the Sandinista female commandantes wore lipstick and nail polish. Some of them also wore two pistols on their hips.To them, the cosmetics signified being "modern" as opposed to traditional, which they despised, and free, as opposed to being under the thumb of the nearest male. I once made a comment about the difference between
this and the north american norm at the time, in which liberation was loosely correlated with an absence of cosmetics. Doria Maria Tellez, one of the commandantes, said:
"We still believe in bread AND roses."
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 18 October 2002 05:54 PM
That's what I thought too, kuba. Of course I don't think that make-up and perms should replace a real political voice for women in Afghanistan. But to say that make-up and hairstyling is a western thing and that it's cultural imperialism - well, I agree that the cosmetic companies are only in it for the bottom line. But do you really think Afghan women (or any women from the area, for that matter) never wore make-up until westerners came along and showed them how? I highly doubt that. I agree that the corporate sponsorship is western imperialism, absolutely, but not the make-up and hair styling itself. Asian women haven't learned all their "beauty secrets" from us western women - in fact, they have absolutely gorgeous beauty rituals that are quite unique, such as henna dyes for the hands and feet, etc., but also, they did their hair and make-up long before the west told them it was "in".I think it might be a bit egocentric to think that we were the ones who came up with beauty rituals, to tell you the truth. It's true that western feminists have equated beauty rituals and products with oppression. But maybe to these women, who could be stoned for wearing make-up or showing their hair, doing this stuff is empowering to a certain extent. It's true, the politics of make-up really tick me off too. I don't like the message that "you have to be beautiful to be worthy, and you have to wear make-up to be beautiful". But frankly, the idea that the west is having a sexist influence on the women in Afghanistan is, to me, laughable, considering that the men who own those women (yes, I said OWN them) have a much more sexist influence on them than any stick of eye-liner will. After seeing what those women have been through in the news, and after having experienced and witnessed Iranian culture firsthand, I would say that a feminist in Islamic-ruled countries have a heck of a lot more to worry about than whether lipstick is oppressive or not.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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zephyr
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3188
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posted 18 October 2002 05:57 PM
Why does wearing lipstick smack of cultural imperialism? Is it because the makeup is being provided by western companies? The idea that women in North America, who can walk to the corner and spend any amount of money at the drug or department store, have the audacity to think that women in Afghanistan should not be interested in or excited by the prospect of makeup smacks of cultural imperialism. It would be terrible if the officials in Afghanistant with the authority to decide what form western aid takes chose Revlon's donation of makeup over a hospital's donation of medical supplies but is this the case? I read (on Rabble?) something about a women's shelter in Vancouver (?) where volunteers donated makeup application and hair dressing to the women (addicts, prostitutes) who frequent the shelter. This made the women whose lives were pretty horrible feel good. I think it would be sad if a feminist came to the place proclaiming that, yes, you may feel great because you've had your makeup and hair done and you feel pretty, but really, you are a victim of male/corporate imperialism (and a host of other isms) and this makeup does nothing for you but prove that you are a victim of oppression. WIPE THAT LIPSTICK OFF NOW!And since when did makeup become a western concept? There is oodles of archaeological evidence that makeup and other adornments have been worn by the peoples of asia/africa et cetera for millenia. Now, if these women in Afghanistan start buying blue contact lenses and bleaching their hair and wearing frosty pink lipstick, I grant you, there may be a problem. For the record, I don't wear makeup but I shave my pits.
From: across the river and into the trees | Registered: Oct 2002
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Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873
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posted 21 October 2002 09:57 AM
I have not said that wearing cosmetics is bad, or that women - especially those who've been through hell - shouldn't feel beautiful. And I deeply resent those who would depict anyone who strongly objects to this "charitable" project as some dogmatic anti-makeup crusader. That is just so much bullshit.Look at the context. Every time I read an article that mentions pre-Taliban Afghani women, it mentions how "western" a city Kabul was, how "stylish" (ie., western) Afghani women were, like that's some kind of virtue. Look at the voices represented in the article. Spokespeople (American) gushing about how fucking wonderful the cosmetic companies are and how grateful the women are. Sure , Afghani women are likely to be grateful for a bit of distraction from the fact that they can't say shit about who runs the country (war criminals), or how they run it(with head firmly up Washington's blow-hole), or from the fact that their babies and children die unnecessarily due to lack of medical supplies, nutrition and basic infrastructure, or that they themselves need medical care, basic healthcare, and pre and post-natal care. No, make giving each other facials and perms the priority. So what if the Ministry for Women's Affairs is cosmetic. So are you. Now shut up and look pretty.
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001
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