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Topic: rabble rumble?
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Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718
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posted 04 February 2006 05:40 PM
quote: Originally posted by Boom Boom: BabbleMania!
"Not the babble, but an amazing simulation."
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004
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Wayne MacPhail
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 119
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posted 07 February 2006 09:23 AM
Hi gang:Here's a rabble rumble poster Please print it out and post it at your work, school or dorm. Thanks! Here's what the hi rez poster looks like. It's 8x10 [ 07 February 2006: Message edited by: Wayne MacPhail ]
From: Hamilton | Registered: Apr 2001
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Babbling_Jenn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10944
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posted 09 February 2006 03:31 PM
Nice, very nice. This is what radio needs more of and I think Rebick and Bond do a great job with it.One suggestion: keep these coming as quickly as you can because people may not remember to look for it a month down the road. Now, my response. I haven't been convinced either way. I agree with Rebick that there is nothing progressive about simply putting a woman in a male role and then saying it's feminist. It's not. It's like buying from a huge corporation because it's run by a woman. There's nothing progressive about that. However, there is something to be said for playing around with existing male-dominated art -- in this case, cinema. By throwing a woman into the mix, perceptions of these fighter movies can be altered and changed. I have to say that fighting women are far more exciting to me than fighting men... That said, I think Rebick holds far more weight in her argument. If we're going to discuss the politics of film, we can't just look at the aesthetics of a movie, we need to look at the underlying messages. I think Bond comes up short on that one. Looking forward to round two...
From: Rural Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005
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Babbling_Jenn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10944
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posted 16 February 2006 12:49 AM
So, I've listened to Rebick's second installment. Even better than the last, I'd say.While I think that a strong critique of art needs to have a background in art -- Rebick acknowledges that she doesn't know the terminology of film study -- there are some cases when you can cut through the special effects and look at the message. I did some searching on the internet, looking for feminist critiques of Kill Bill. There are quite a few, but not many that are solid. This article is from the Guardian Unlimited. It has an opposite view to Rebick -- actually, the reviewer (Molly Haskell) doesn't even agree with the premise that Rebick is basing her argument on. Namely, that Thurman's character "The Bride" embodies feminine traits and lacks many of the masculine traits that are commonly associated with male action heroes. Here is a quote from Haskell's review: quote: And that's what makes Tarantino unique, women stretching their muscles in the action arena without leaving their affections at the door. These are not women simply airlifted into male roles, with the traditional characteristics intact, but action roles conceived for women, with women's sorrows and women's biology, in which they show the strengths and limits of their sex. On the plus side, they're fluid and capable and intuitive, and they aren't dragging around giant egos in constant need of stoking. The downside, in terms of plot and action, is the brake applied by motherhood. A pregnant warrior is one who stops dead in her tracks, when her mind switches channels in mid-stream, goes into nurture mode. Babies are anti-action and anti-climax.
From: Rural Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005
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Babbling_Jenn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10944
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posted 06 March 2006 10:49 PM
Back on topic now. Cathi's response: I'm not sure how much further this debate can go. It seems that we have now established the two very distinct sides. Cathi thinks that Kill Bill should be viewed through a historical lens as an homage to 1930s films and female characters within. Judy thinks this doesn't really matter because ultimately, a film where women's power is judged based on their ability to behave like men is sexist. I'm not sure that there could be a winner or even an agreement. I'm also not sure if that's something the two debaters are looking for. Will there be two more installments? What's the next debate? Will it always be between Judy and Cathi?
From: Rural Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005
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MondoBondo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10611
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posted 07 March 2006 06:33 PM
Hey Jen!I think you're right, we've about babbled ourselves silly on this one. The next installment is sort of a signoff and then we're onto the next one. And it won't be Judy and I, so don't worry Judy and I are going to start a new podcast on the RPN called Reel Women. We're going to get together for a chat where we turn each other onto a new release or a film we really like. It won't be all film theory, just two gals with different opinions on movies having a yack and some laughs. What we hope is that it'll give people some alternate ideas of movies they can rent as well as some (hopefully) smart content and entertainment. Thanks very much for contributing to the fledging bout of the Rabble Rumble. I think we all learned something about the structure of the thing. (I think they should be shorter or at least closer together) And I still live in hope that Judy will cave. Cath
From: Ayr | Registered: Oct 2005
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 07 March 2006 07:31 PM
Tarantino's movies set my teeth on edge (except for Jackie Brown, and even parts of that), so I didn't see Kill Bill. But I thought you made a good point, Cathi, about action movies. Given the conventions of the genre, it's hard to see how a female lead can blow things up, or blow away her enemies, or even just defend herself, in a radically different way to her male counterparts.An exception, though, might be something like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Every fight scene involves at least one woman, yet (as I remember it) no-one's even cut, let alone killed. You could argue of course that that's a sanitized sort of violence. Though I'd say rather that the movie is (literally) fantastic, or dreamlike. Didn't Ang Lee say that his goal in making that movie was to film "a dream of China"?
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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MondoBondo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10611
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posted 07 March 2006 08:03 PM
Very interesting point Lance about Crouching Tiger. The fight scenes were really dance. Indeed most of the fighting in the martial arts movies are so highly choreographed that they're really musicals. Some more violent than others to be sure. I guess where I'm coming from is that violence is violence no matter who does it and how they do it. Philosophically one cannot condone it in any fashion.Initially Judy wanted me to rumble taking the premise that "violence empowers women." How could such a thing be true and if it is, how sick it that? But I will say that I thoroughly enjoy these movies and I find *that* quite disturbing. How easily we all file crazy assed violence under "that's entertainment." Is it just part of the human narrative and it will always be explored? Quite likely. I only wish that it wasn't exploited so horribly. I do know that when I watch Mr and Mrs Smith that some producer and his goons have done a zillion focus groups and they've determined that putting Angelina Jolie in a tight top and a machine gun is going to sell like hell to the men and that the chicks will like it too. I know they're not trying to say anything remotely more interesting than that. I do think that Tarantino has a broader artistic canvas to cover and that's why I enjoy his movies so thoroughly. However he is one of those that you either love or hate. Any thoughts on the idea of the violent narrative? Are we tied to it for all eternity? Is it part of the human story?
From: Ayr | Registered: Oct 2005
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 07 March 2006 08:38 PM
quote: Very interesting point Lance about Crouching Tiger. The fight scenes were really dance. Indeed most of the fighting in the martial arts movies are so highly choreographed that they're really musicals. Some more violent than others to be sure.
A good example of that would be Hero, which was sort of Crouching Tiger: The Dark Side (crossed with Rashomon, maybe). quote: I do think that Tarantino has a broader artistic canvas to cover and that's why I enjoy his movies so thoroughly. However he is one of those that you either love or hate.
Watching Pulp Fiction, I had the impression he was trying to make a fool of me. I wouldn't have resented this, particularly, except that I also had the impression he was succeeding. quote: Any thoughts on the idea of the violent narrative? Are we tied to it for all eternity? Is it part of the human story?
Hmmm. A tough one. Eternity's a long time; and violent narrative goes back to the beginning of narrative, probably. (I know he came along a long time after the beginning of narrative, but reading The Iliad, you could be forgiven for thinking Homer was revelling in detailed descriptions of brutal -- messy -- killings). Let it sound trite, but given that violence in the RealWorldTM shows no signs of going away any time soon, I'm sure treatments of violence in film and books and whatever won't either. [ 07 March 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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MondoBondo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10611
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posted 09 March 2006 12:27 PM
Exactly! This is the problem I had with Judy's argument. How do you kill in a female fashion? What is a soft way to kill? Why is it only men who are *really capable* of chopping off 600 heads? I know if sufficiently irked (and had that very kewl martial arts training with Pei Mai) I too would be equally able to chop off said heads. And frankly I would love to be able to punch my way out of a coffin rather than just lie in there and cry and pray for somebody to come and get me. Oh dear, I shouldn't go on like this or somebody (probably Judy :-) is going to arrive and slap me. (In a very female way of course.) To me the argument isn't as simple as women killing like men is vile. We're human. We kill. That is one of the main narratives of our collective experience. At least the collective experience that we knows. (I will confess to being mostly steeped in European history and myth) Can anybody share another mythic structure that's underpinned by a different philosophy? I'm probably blasting off all my closing arguments in here. Thanks for the kind words about the rumble. It was actually a lot of fun.
From: Ayr | Registered: Oct 2005
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'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064
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posted 09 March 2006 02:11 PM
quote: Originally posted by MondoBondo: Can anybody share another mythic structure that's underpinned by a different philosophy?
Not that I know much about it, but there is the "trickster" archetype that's supposed to be so common in aboriginal mythologies and some others (certain African ones, maybe? I'm arm-waving here). You can imagine a different type of action movie in which the hero(ine) used hir brains and quick wits to get out of jams while keeping the killing to a minimum. In fact there is such a type. Jackie Chan sort of works that corner, applying his wits to the choice of how to fight in this or that weird situation, or what nearby props to grab when he has to improvise a weapon. To me, that would be (is) a more entertaining kind of movie, because more akin to comedy than your typical action movie, where the humour -- if any -- tends to be of the gallows kind. (Obviously people find Tarantino's movies funny -- for reasons I don't get, but whatever -- but then he doesn't really make your typical action movie). Whether the lead character is male or female I'd find less important. Actually that last bit isn't quite true. I wouldn't have liked Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon nearly so much had it lacked either Michelle Yeoh or Zhang Ziyi. (edited because I couldn't spled Zhang Ziyi). [ 09 March 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001
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