Author
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Topic: Asking for help with the wrong words?
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 26 May 2006 04:42 AM
quote: Dear auntie.com, I am a young woman with a two-year-old child. I have been married for six years. My husband recently had some problems that caused our marriage to come to an end. He is long gone. I am here in this house that I desperately need to sell and move on, alone with a two-year-old. I do not have a job nor a car yet. I feel as if I am stranded. I need to pack up and sort out all my things, paint and repair the house, sell the house, buy a car, find a job and a place to live, care for my son and assure he has a happy life. Right now I need to depend on the help of others because of the very sticky situation I am in. I have simply asked my friends and family for help with everything, but no one has responded. How do you ask for help (in the right words) and try to get any helpful hand that I can? It could be taking my son for just an hour, or painting a few rooms, or giving me a simple ride to the store. No one is responding and I am completely confused. Have I phrased it wrong? What could I be doing wrong that no one wants to volunteer any help whatsoever? Can you help? Stunned and confused by family
auntie's answer [ 26 May 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214
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posted 26 May 2006 05:11 PM
I wasn't as under the financial gun in some respects as "stunned and confused" but in the initial stages I thought I might be, and while my daughters were much more independant than a toddler, there were three of them, and at any age you are concerned about the effects of separation.And teens, while they don't have the same second to second demands as a toddler, they do have demands. Oy. Family stands away in the early going because of many factors. Mostly they just don't know how to react. They are afraid of looking too partizan in case of reconciliation-- which happens often. They may want to help by doing inappropriate things like being nasty to the ex. What I learned is you can't let family sit there and guess. You don't have to give them a blow by blow description of the break up, but you need to tell them how things are unfolding. They need a cue.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 27 May 2006 01:53 AM
I think we're veering off into a bit of speculation here - I didn't get any hint from her letter that she's badmouthing her ex, and that the grandparents are standing back because of that. I don't really think it's wise for parents to step back when their daughter is actually asking for help, and doesn't appear to be doing it in an "I need help because my ex is an asshole" type of way. All she says about her ex is that he's "long gone" and was pretty diplomatic about why he left in the letter.I agree, though, that if you ask for help in an open-ended way instead of asking for specific, small favours, people can be overwhelmed. Also, sometimes people back off if they feel like someone is really overly needy and if they feel like their entire socializing with someone consists of doing chores for them. If you know that every time you call someone, you're going to be on the hook for babysitting or painting, chances are you'll stop calling and start screening your calls eventually.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Loretta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 222
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posted 27 May 2006 10:36 AM
Having experienced single parenting for 3 years (with 3 children aged 8, 11 & 15), I can relate to this question. It touches a nerve because I felt abandoned by those who had committed to helping when a good job offer came through. Those commitments were short-lived and often, I struggled to make it through in terms of energy and keeping up with the needs of my children and the general care of our home.As far as those around who sense neediness and run in the other direction, frankly I think that's true but it's crap. While I won't pose the question of who could be more needy than a single parent, trying to put food on the table, a roof over everyone's heads, get kids to the various places they might need to go (and believe me, my kids didn't have much in the way of commitments for other reasons), deal with demands of work, interaction with schools, children who are sick and/or reacting to the loss of a parent, household tasks and maintenance (it once took me three months to get a toilet unplugged because I couldn't afford a plumber and didn't have the time and attention to deal with it), engage in the legal or mediation process and whatever else comes one's way, well, that's a lot to expect one person to take on single-handedly. Yes, people in this position need help so that makes them needy, and it's bloody awful that while we (especially those on the left) spout the mantra of "it takes a village to raise a child", that village often seems to be hiding in their huts when a single parent needs some help (at least in my experience). I remember hearing about the cuts to housekeeping that seniors were having imposed about them during the time I was single parenting. At the time, I thought it was horrible that the government was cutting a program that might be so important to helping seniors stay in their homes rather than go into seniors residences. Yet, at the same time I remember wondering "where is the help for those of us who are caring for children, on our own, with all that it entails?" I know this a long tirade but I think that if we genuinely believe that "it takes a village..." the village, in the form of community and families have to assist. While some of us go through it and live to tell the tale, I will not believe that it was a good time for my children. My family let me down. My current partner's family, by contrast, plays a major role in the lives of his sister and her two kids -- not in a co-dependent way but in a mutually contributory way. It's sad that someone's labelled as "needy" with all of its attendent negative over-tones when they're really baffled about being abandoned.
From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001
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nuclearfreezone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9059
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posted 27 May 2006 11:31 AM
My experience was very similar to Loretta's. Abandoned and made homeless by the ex with 3 kids in tow (5,7 and 14). We were then abandoned by both sides of the family, my sister actually telling me that we were too "needy".The pain I went through was unreal; the rage I felt was beyond words. Now, 10 years later, I still harbour the resentment and although I have forgiven, to a point and only because I need to carry on with my life, I will never, ever forget: the exhaustion, the struggles, the poverty, etc., while the rest of them lived in luxury. The "family" gatherings we were excluded from, the Christmases spent alone, the birthdays never celebrated, the help that never came. The years and years of never having a break, not even an afternoon while they were all running around helping each other and their friends. In my mind I picture them with a stick driving us away. Now, that things are better because I alone made them better, they talk to us and invite us and I go but I will never trust again. My core values were shattered to dust at the time. Fair weather family is what I have. Okay, maybe I haven't forgiven yet but it doesn't matter because I'm leaving this city forever. My daughter graduated from university last year and is on her own. I'm taking my two teenage sons and moving to BC next month. Maybe I'll find better friends than the family I have. Nobody wants to know you when you're down and out. And when you're down and out you find out who your friends (and family) are. When I was down and out with 3 kids I had neither.
From: B.C. | Registered: Apr 2005
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Loretta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 222
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posted 27 May 2006 02:02 PM
Nuclearfreezone, you said: quote: My core values were shattered to dust at the time.
This resonsates strongly with me. I don't trust my family members at all anymore, especially those who are big on spouting the "family values" line. They're all words and no action. To get back to the question about asking with the wrong words, some folks have suggested asking in specific ways, including auntie, I believe. While putting things in more specific ways might help in some cases, I don't think these situations are about finding the right words. How can one be more specific than asking the kids' dad if he could have the kids overnight because I had to go out of town to work? (He said "no" on every occassion that I asked, including recently.) How can one be more specific than asking if someone could take my daughter to the orthodontist during my work hours and being told "gee, hon, I think that's my afternoon that I'm planning to go look for a pair of shoes"? How can one be more specific than bawling my eyes out to my mother because I just couldn't take it anymore and have my mother say "gee, hon, I'm sorry things are so hard but your dad and I feel that [my ex] should be doing more. If we do things that he should be doing, he gets off scott-free." So, my parents helped grudgingly on very few occassions, on a very limited basis and, on their terms (such as watching TV the whole time they were helping with "childcare"). My ex, while he lived in the same town, got hooked up with someone who doesn't like kids and refuses to this day to have his children in their house. (They are now 16, 19 & 22 so I don't think behaviour's an issue.) Those of you who haven't gone through this, I challenge you to, the next time you see that single parent at church, at a union meeting, at work, genuinely ask how things are for them. I think that you'll find that many are going through the kind of hell that nuclearfreezone and I have described and what sounds like the writer of the question is experiencing. Why can't some of these organizations do what they do for seniors, etc, and get some folks together to help the single parents in their community, even if it's only something small like picking up the groceries? [ 27 May 2006: Message edited by: Loretta ]
From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001
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otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062
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posted 30 May 2006 12:14 PM
There is also the cultural prejudice that believes that those who are marginalized are less competent, or capable or deserving of assistance because they are obviously the authors of their situation. Many Canadians already shun the homeless and disadvantaged citzenry they see in the streets as a sign of the disintegration of societal responsiblity. So, shun family members who are in need would obviously follow that form of discrimination.
From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006
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Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260
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posted 19 June 2006 12:48 PM
quote: I agree, though, that if you ask for help in an open-ended way instead of asking for specific, small favours, people can be overwhelmed.
I think Michelle's hit on an important part of it right there.One friend was abandonned by her husband, leaving her with 3 young children. I didn't know what to do for her. My husband and I offered to help but she never asked for anything specific, and I was too busy and tired from my own kids and jobs to get creative about helping her. Another friend lost her husband to cancer. She would phone us and ask if we could take her daughter for the afternoon, or overnight a few times. She is easy to help because she asks for specific favours.
From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005
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Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276
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posted 23 July 2006 06:49 PM
quote: Originally posted by Merryblue: find some decent friends with kids, especially some with girls a couple of years older than your child. Do things together. Take their kids for awhile, and vice versa. Go picnicking together. A pile of kids and two moms is much more fun.
Agreed, absolutely. quote: Originally posted by Merryblue: How dare you presuppose she's whining or asking for too much help? As a couple of women who have been there said, "a single mom IS needy"! She actually needs help. Giving help to her is warranted and it is expected. There should be lots of it, and it should happen daily.
I've acted for a great many single moms over the past 35 years. Of course they need help. Sometimes they also need empowering. This can mean just feeling they have permission to do what they want to do, or mean having the money to do so, or both, and so on. Sometimes a woman has been so dominated and intimidated by her partner that she needs a "spine transplant." So I try to be alert to what she's saying. Every woman is different. Some, for example, would really prefer to go to our mediator than to go to court. Another has perhaps been told by someone that mediation is always the better way, and no one heard her when she tried to say "This is a waste of time, he won't listen to anyone but a judge."
From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002
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jw
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12946
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posted 24 July 2006 02:37 AM
I think we need to be careful with these "help needed" topics. Sometimes the kindest thing possible is to destroy learned-helplessness. Mind! We must be careful not to go too far in the other direction. It is a balancing act.When my wife ran off leaving me with two babies ... I was a basket case. I couldn't think of welfare or any of the other helps, they were all female only until the mid 1980's. My family were horrified and never did forgive me --a mere male-- for being a single parent. I took a job as the resident caretaker at a hunting and fishing lodge. That allowed me to single-parent and work. The year and a bit I spent hundreds of miles in the bush gave me the foundation to come back into the world. I must admit, the violent contempt we faced as we lone fathers fought for the right to basic "helps" damaged me. Yet, I deeply believe that that year in the bush --being the absolute responsible-- helped me in learning to face the violence we went through in the fight to get lone fathers some rights. That year of coping alone, even now thirty years later, helps me in my day to day battle as a disabled man. Thus my original point: Somewhere, there is a balance between help-needed and learning to stand on one's own feet. My advice for the OP would be: "Ask for specific things which you need." "Ask ONLY for the things you really need." "Ask in the clearest possible language."
From: Aylmer, ON | Registered: Jul 2006
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Merryblue
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 565
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posted 24 July 2006 06:21 AM
Again, there's more assumptions--mainly from the men, though-- learned helplessness. I re-read her post and never saw any signs of "learned helplessness" there. How I wish men could be single moms for even a month! I think the whole planet would change. As for the other assumption--that she didn't ask for specific help. How do you know she didn't ask for "specific" help? Her post would likely have been longer had she documented everything, I'm sure! In any case, what is wrong with her family asking, "What would you like me to do for you?" Then, if she hadn't been specific before, she would certainly be specific then. So many assumptions and prejudicies here, it makes me want to puke. C'mon, guys! Develop some compassion and willingness to help single moms with kids, without jumping to conclusions that you might be encouraging "learned helplessness" or "neediness" scourges. Like hysteria and hypochondria in middle-aged women, those scourges are mostly bunk in most cases, anyway.
From: Northern Vancouver Island B.C. | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 24 July 2006 06:40 AM
Well, you know, this is an auntie.com letter so no one has more information than what is provided, and she specifically asks for advice about how to ask for help. Since it's a one-shot deal and not a dialogue, people are going to have to speculate at least a little bit. Check out what she said: quote: I have simply asked my friends and family for help with everything, but no one has responded. How do you ask for help (in the right words) and try to get any helpful hand that I can? It could be taking my son for just an hour, or painting a few rooms, or giving me a simple ride to the store. No one is responding and I am completely confused. Have I phrased it wrong? What could I be doing wrong that no one wants to volunteer any help whatsoever?
She has "simply asked for help with everything"? What does that mean? That she asks for help with specific tasks whenever they need doing, or she says to her friends and family, "I need help, I'm overwhelmed!" without being specific about what she needs? I don't think anyone's trying to blame her. But she's asking, what could she be doing wrong? Well, given the small amount of information in the letter, no one can know exactly how she is approaching people, so they're giving some ideas about what COULD be wrong based on what she MIGHT possibly be doing. That said, I also wouldn't just assume she is suffering from "learned helplessness". Often when women are fresh out of a relationship, especially with kids, it's pretty overwhelming and it's hard to know what to do first or how to cope. That's why I was thinking it might be a good idea for her to see a counsellor of some kind - no, not for medication, but for coping and communication skills if she's finding that people aren't responding the way she wishes to what she is telling them, and she's (understandably) having a hard time coping with everything life is throwing at her. We could all limit our responses to "That's terrible and your family is being awful!" but since she's actually asking for advice from an advice columnist on how to cope and how to communicate her needs to people, that wouldn't really be all that constructive.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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jw
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12946
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posted 25 July 2006 12:31 AM
merryblue said: "Again, there's more assumptions--mainly from the men, though-- learned helplessness.I re-read her post and never saw any signs of "learned helplessness" there. How I wish men could be single moms for even a month! I think the whole planet would change." As I said, I raised my kids alone. No welfare, no child support, no tax deductions for child care, no, no, no ad bigotry: All those things and many more were female only; lone fathers and our kids were not considered human enough to be worth helping. That is still the case in a good many "first world" countries. I will not return your insults. I will state, clearly, people who do not know how to ask for help, in the simplest possible way, tend to have learned helplessness. That is not always the case, true; yet it is so often enough to make the comment. To get help, one must ask for exactly what one wants. Asking for "help" doesn't usually cut it as people do not know what you mean. People are not mind readers. Furthermore, as I said in my first post there is immense mental/social benefit in standing on one's own two feet. I gained something from that year and a bit when I was the only parent, with no one to babysit, no one to help and no advice from anyone. When I needed to do laundry, I hauled the washer outside, filled it by bucket and started the engine (gasoline). When the kids needed a bath, I put the laundry tub on the cool end of the woodstove and bathed the kids. etc. etc. etc. There was no help and no possibility of help. That period of standing on my own two feet gave me the confidence and security I badly needed. This is an important concept and one too few seem to grasp. There is immense benefit from BOTH: - standing completely alone and doing for one's self - standing with family help in a caring core group Both have benefit. Both have merit. The best world would be one of having family around offering love and emotional support, while standing as alone as is possible.
From: Aylmer, ON | Registered: Jul 2006
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