On their website, the group calls on women to take action against rising bus fares, saying:

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Bus riders rely on transit because they can't afford a car, share a car with family or are unable to drive because of disability or age.

Women are a majority of these bus riders. Many women, particularly women of colour, need public transit because they are concentrated in low-wage, night shift, temporary, part-time work, and have a lot of family responbilities. They need reliable, affordable, and 24 hour public transit.

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Bus Riders Union talks to City council here.

With its pay per zone system, Vancouver has the highest bus fares in Canada.

[ 25 May 2005: Message edited by: Granola Girl ]

Bus ridership consistently exceeds expectations, but the new Millenium line is operating at well below predicted (hoped-for) ridership.

And the night buses are back. Many of the most heavily-traffic'd routes are served from 5:00 am to 3:30 am. Even the London tube shuts down earlier than 3:30.

Much of the bus service in Vancouver is spotty in areas, and requires lengthy waits. Plus, with the zone system you have to pay from $2.25 to $4.50 (or from $1.50 to $3.00 for kids/seniors) for a ride, depending on where you're going. In Toronto, its one price to go anywhere. Also, many busses in Vancouver will not take strollers on board unless you fold them first, a problem I never had in T.O. (and a huge pain in the butt - picture it, bags, baby and folded stroller in arm - nightmare!)

I would agree with Lagatta's bare bones assesment, expecially when you note the difference in service between the nice, speedy, upholstered #135 bus which serves the SFU university community and the slow, dirty, graffiti-filled buses saved for less properous communities, like the #10 or the #8. (Although this problem is not restricted to Vancouvre by any means).

Where I used to live, it took me longer to bus from the southeast end of the city to the U of A, which is on the south side of the city, but close to downtown, than it took me to bike the same distance, or for friends to bus there from a St. Alberta, which is north of the northwest end of the city.

Furthermore, I would characterise the variations in socio-economic strata of the neighbourhoods along the 8 route to be very similar to those along the 135 route.

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A pity that in a city the size of metropolitan Vancouver, most of your transport (except for a couple of Skytrains or whatever you call them) is bus-based. Sounds like they are keeping a "bare-bones" system for the poor, rather than a quality system that would attract commuters of all income levels. A city as large as Vancouver needs a proper rapid transport system. It is ghastly that there are no late-night buses. So many low-wage people have to work on shifts ending late at night or even more often, starting very early in the morning.

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When I was out that way, I was told by one of the city planners (fairly progessive fellow) that the use of buses was pretty unavoidable in Vancouvers's case. Unlike Toronto and Montreal, the city is mainly built on solid rock (making subways prohibitively expensive), and they're expecting a huge earthquake pretty soon (you wouldn't want to be on a sky train during one, and you'd have to rebuild it from scratch after the earthquake).

I think that is why members of the Bus Riders Union are so angry - bus fares are being increased at a time when the feds are finally putting money into civic transport. It just doesn't seem to make sense.

Maybe, with improved service and cheaper tickets, single occupancy car use will decline and certain highway expansion projects will no longer be needed...

[ 25 May 2005: Message edited by: Granola Girl ]

San Francicso has trams, and lots of cities in Japan have rail systems. So much for my vast knowledge of Pacific Rim public transport - more than a bit spotty, alas!

But there does seem to be a stigma attached to the bus. People of all classes take the métro here and the subway in Toronto - it is faster and more efficient for a lot of commuters.

Granola Girl, in Montreal there is a feminist initiative about urban safety - they won the right to ask the bus driver to stop anywhere (it is safe for him or her to do so) between two stops after 9 pm. Claire Morrissette, a cycling and transport activist, wrote a book about urban cycling (that is cycling for transport and the environment, not for sport or recreation) and feminism, "Deux roues, un avenir". But I hadn't seen a pure public transport question approached from a feminist angle. Cool.

[ 25 May 2005: Message edited by: lagatta ]

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Originally posted by lagatta:
Anchoress, I have been to several mountainous cities - they tend to have trams.

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Originally posted by Granola Girl:
Also, when I lived in Toronto, I lived on the bus route of a singing bus driver, who would greet her customers every day with her own rousing, customized rendition of 'the wheels on the bus,'an experience that, sadly, has never been replicated for me in Vancouver.

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Originally posted by Hailey:
After I finished University I promised myself that I would never take the bus again.... Absolutely never again.

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Is there something specific that was a problem? I ask because I've never had trouble riding transit, but, when my sister lived in Edmonton her viewpoint was identical to yours. A lot of childhood friends have moved to Edmonton and say the same thing also. I've taken transit regularly in the other cities I've lived in, but not in Edmonton because I usually had access to a car. So I'm wondering what's up with ETS that so many people feel this way?

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Originally posted by Granola Girl:
Much of the bus service in Vancouver is spotty in areas, and requires lengthy waits. Plus, with the zone system you have to pay from $2.25 to $4.50 (or from $1.50 to $3.00 for kids/seniors) for a ride, depending on where you're going. In Toronto, its one price to go anywhere.

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I would tend to agree with this except the price structure in Vancouver lets you take any route you want and any buses you want for 90 minutes. The thing I hated about Toronto's transit is that you could only go one way (according to the restrictions on the tickets). That said, when I lived in Burnaby I found service to be really spotty on bus routes.

Which is why I'll always prefer anything rail based: trains, trams, skytrains or metros over buses. I'd always just miss my bus in Burnaby and have to wait 30 minutes to an hour for the next one. It would be faster to walk sometimes and if not for the rain I would've. Miss a skytrain and you know there's another one in a few minutes. Plus, the security at skytrain/metro stations is always much higher than as bus stops. The more areas that can be served be metros or skytrains the better, IMO. I can't see many people giving up their cars for buses, but I have seen people giving up their cars for trains.

[ 26 May 2005: Message edited by: kurichina ]

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Originally posted by Michelle:

OMG - did you take the Thorncliffe Park bus from Pape by any chance?? I had the same driver!

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I've had her too.

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Is there something specific that was a problem? I ask because I've never had trouble riding transit, but, when my sister lived in Edmonton her viewpoint was identical to yours. A lot of childhood friends have moved to Edmonton and say the same thing also. I've taken transit regularly in the other cities I've lived in, but not in Edmonton because I usually had access to a car. So I'm wondering what's up with ETS that so many people feel this way?

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Edmonton is a very car-oriented city. People's second choice during non-winter periods would be walking/running or cycling if that was feasible. The bus, I think, is dead last. As a result most of the bus are people that are really having quite a hard time. I know someone in Edmonton here is going to disagree but that was my view.

They don't have a policy - or they don't have one that they enforce - on drinking. Sometimes at the University when I was a student travelling home later than I would normally like they'd let a bunch of people on who had been drinking. I was desperately uncomfortable. I complained a few times when things got out of hand and it was ineffectual.

During my years taking the bus I also had three fights break out.

Also Edmonton still has more of a "small city mentality" than places like Vancouver. When I've taken transportation in Vancouver people don't see the bus as part of their social life. Some people in Edmonton I honestly think see the bus as a meeting place or something!

And, well, my personality probably isn't a good fit for public transportation so that's a starter. I don't really like the idea of people I don't know talking to me. I'd much rather have a quiet ride. That being said I must LOOK friendlier than I am because someone always chat with me. Sometimes I think that the cure for muteness is sitting next to me. I seem to find every chatterbox in the land.

The singing bus driver would have KILLED me. That would have driven me batty. I am sure though she'd have stopped within a week with me.

My issues this last weekend probably had a lot to do with meeting my husband and missing his contribution. When we're together we help each other and in this situation I was bringing the boys to him. The bus was late, the boys' were fussy (certainly not the responsibility of ETS but it added to my frustration), someone kept complaining to me that one of them was fussy and told me I was "nasty" and "rude" when I finally responded to their irritating comments, and I ended up having to stand. After years of taking the bus in Edmonton I got used to the idea that other people don't get up to give women seats or such but I honestly thought that if I had the boys there might be one sympathetic soul. But, they paid so they are as entitled to me to a seat.

It was just a reminder to me that I won't ever get on the bus again. I will just not attend next time.

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I found the article interesting because this is the first time I've ever seen a public transit issue linked to the idea of women's rights. Has anyone else heard of this?

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Actually, there are quite a few times such a policy, if strictly enforced, would have frozen me out too. Not that I was remotely "drunk" - and much less disorderly - but often if I take the bus to my friends and back home instead of my bicycle it is because we have had supper and some wine and would actually be over the legal limit...

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I don't feel safe with rowdy people on a bus either (drunken, stoned or simply worked up) and have often had the disagreeable experience of taking the 55 (boulevard St-Laurent - aka "The Main") bus back from the club area downtown up here to the Jean-Talon market area, as I have two close friends who live on parallel streets near St-Laurent down there - but the last thing on earth I'd want is a hard-and-fast "no passengers who have consumed alcohol" policy. You want them driving? Or in an Edmonton winter, freezing to death?

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I certainly don't want a rule that has a hard and fast rule that involves using a breathalyzer or anything like that but I've never seen a VISIBLY drunk person that wasn't being disruptive.

I had more than one experience on the bus which, unfortunately, was overcrowded so many had to stand. Imagine standing in a crowded situation with a bunch of drunk college guys? I got groped more than once and it was upsetting to me to say the least.And then you have difficulty telling who did it. After it happened the first time I learned to grab the hand and yank it or twist the skin so that I could tell who the appendage belonged to.

I am under no obligation to be on a bus with rowdy persons who didn't either limit their intake so they were socially fit to take the bus or spend less on booze so they could take a cab. I have no problem with them being kicked off the bus.

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It is a bloody shame how Edmonton has developed.

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I've heard that from a lot of people who have lived in cities with better than public transportation. I've never lived anywhere else so it's a bit hard for me to critique.

I do know that it would be very hard to rely on public transportation year-round.

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I have no problem with them being kicked off the bus.

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With the busdriver offering to phone in a cab, or call the police to escort the drunko home if they suddenly "don't feel safe" wherever they're being turfed.

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I am under no obligation to be on a bus with rowdy persons who didn't either limit their intake so they were socially fit to take the bus or spend less on booze so they could take a cab. I have no problem with them being kicked off the bus.

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I've never seen a VISIBLY drunk person that wasn't being disruptive

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Hailey, surely you aren't serious in that statement. Anyway, I take public transit all the time, and while its not uncommon to notice impaired riders, they are very seldom intrusive or offensive. It is the teens, particularly in groups, who are loud and obnoxious.

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It is the teens, particularly in groups, who are loud and obnoxious.

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I had the most delicious experience on a bus in Hamilton a long time ago. A group of teens was sitting in the back and behaving like assholes, yelling at the driver, hooting out the windows, and generally annoying everyone else. The driver cautioned them to smarten up, but they persisted.

Then he pulled the bus over and told them they were being booted off. In the middle of nowhere.

The loudest and most obnoxious of the teens suddenly looked like he really, really wanted his mommy. He went from shouting insults at the driver to looking like he was about to cry in about 3.2 seconds. Naturally the entire bus was now looking right at him too. If I recall correctly, the driver allowed them to stay on board until their destination, but they were silent as a funeral for the duration.

That's what I'd like to see more of on public transportation. Can't sit down? Can't shut up? Can't even use an indoor voice, like a big boy? Then walk. The distance, the cold or the danger is now your problem, not the rest of the bus' problem.

I can only remember one time experiencing the situation Hailey describes. I was in Vancouver, taking the 135 back to SFU and a very inebriated man sat down next to me and started singing at the top of his lungs. I moved to another seat at the opposite end of the bus and he started shouting insults at me until the driver just yelled, "quiet!" But I still felt really uncomfortable. OTOH, I think back now and realize that if that's the only major problem I had over 5 years in Vancouver, then I'm probably doing OK.

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Or, if their safety outside is a concern, I'd say kick them off at the next stop and have them wait for the next bus there.

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Next bus???

Why make another whole bus full of riders have to put up with their immaturity? As I suggested, call a taxi if they're worried about their safety, or a police officer. And I'm suggesting this so that the transit organization doesn't end up embroiled in a lawsuit if and when some ejected idiot hurts himself or someone else, not because I'm terribly worried about their safety.

But you'd pay double — and since it wouldn't cost double, you could use the extra profits to subsidize everything else. As long as it's still way cheaper than gas, insurance and parking, you'd get riders choosing it. And at, what, $4.50 per ride, I can't see critics crying "elitism". That's less than the cost of a McHappy meal, so anyone who wanted to treat themself, could.

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Sounds like a false dilemma to me.

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I use the Vancouver Transit system all the time - in Vancouver proper it's fine, but it gets less useful out in the burbs.

If I were Hailey, I wouldn't use the Edmonton system either. Not because of the 'icky' people, but because it is appallingly designed and implemented. Vancouver does much better.

Honestly, mass transit is one of the best things we have invented for moving people around. It has its weaknessess, many of which stem from chronic underfunding (in favour of more, wider roads). The Vancouver bus system is currently enjoying a spike in ridership as a result of high gas prices - I assume this is the case in most cities where the bus system is at all decent.

I don't expect gas prices to drop anytime soon, nor do I expect low-density suburban living with the 2 hour commute to increase in its practicality. People like Hailey who don't want to be exposed to the icky people will never ride the bus (at least not until they have no economic choice), but the rest of us who are not so sensitive are getting a good deal.

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Really? YOu don't believe the reasoning behind why the TTC is free on New Years Eve?

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I'm not questioning the logic of drunks taking transit instead of cars. I'm saying that we don't have to choose between disruptive or abusive drunks on buses or the same drunks behind the wheel.

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Well, I'm fairly sure that at least some Transit authorities explicitly allow drunks onto the bus (so long as they are not disruptive) for precisely that reason. Better on the bus than in a car.

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That being said, I've rarely felt unsafe as a woman taking public transit late at night in other areas, particularly in the core downtown neighbourhoods. I've felt much more at risk in underground parking garages which almost always freak me out, now matter the time of day.

Charlie Smith writes in this week's Georgia Straight:

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A young Mount Pleasant wo­man says the latest change to a bus route in Vancouver compromises her safety, is inconvenient, and wastes her time.

Mid-Main resident Camilla Tibbs... told the Georgia Straight she used to feel safe on the Main Street bus at any time of day, but not anymore.

On September 5, TransLink shortened the Main Street (number 3) bus route, which used to travel from Southeast Marine Drive north on Main Street to Granville Street downtown; now it ends in the Downtown Eastside.

Passengers travelling to and from downtown are expected to transfer at the Main and Terminal Avenue SkyTrain station.

It’s part of a TransLink-directed trend: SkyTrain (the system’s “back­bone”, according to TransLink spokes­person Ken Hardie) connects passengers to shorter bus routes (the “ribs”), necessitating transfers between the two kinds of transit. It’s not a trend that works for everyone.

Tibbs said two “scary” alternatives now loom for getting home from work.

“I’m not very comfortable [waiting] under the SkyTrain station, especially at night,” she said. Aggressive panhandlers and squeegee kids are usual visitors to the stop. Although Tibbs can board the Cambie Street bus after work, she would then have to walk east 15 minutes to her home at Main. At night, she said, she also isn’t comfortable doing that alone.

At the same time, TransLink axed 10 bus stops on Main between 70th Avenue and Hastings Street. The changes were designed to maintain current bus schedules while Main Street undergoes construction as part of a $6-million joint municipal- federal Transportation Showcase project, which is supposed to be completed by January 2007. TransLink hopes the plan will improve transit and pedestrian service along Vancouver’s most heavily used transit corridor.

Kirat Kaur, the Bus Riders Union community organizer, told the Straight that although Main Street transit desperately needs an improvement, TransLink didn’t give passengers adequate notice about the changes. Nor does the company understand how challenging transferring is for some transit riders, she explained.

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[ 15 September 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]

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Women are a majority of these bus riders. Many women, particularly women of colour, need public transit because they are concentrated in low-wage, night shift, temporary, part-time work, and have a lot of family responbilities. They need reliable, affordable, and 24 hour public transit.

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Does the city in question already have the "24 hour" part down? What about other cities? Here the buses all stop running before or around midnight, so I once had to quit a job because I couldn't get off in time to catch the last bus home. I ended up spending more on a cab home than I earned that shift at Empire Theatres wages, so I quit after my third shift-- taking a total $30 loss after transportation and uniform costs. So the idea of 24-hour transit is immensely appealing to me, and I'd like to know if there's a population somewhere currently supporting it, and how it was initially implemented.

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Originally posted by neoluddite:
Here the buses all stop running before or around midnight, so I once had to quit a job because I couldn't get off in time to catch the last bus home. I ended up spending more on a cab home than I earned that shift.... So the idea of 24-hour transit is immensely appealing to me, and I'd like to know if there's a population somewhere currently supporting it, and how it was initially implemented.

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Well, without looking into it in depth, I'm fairly sure Toronto has an all-night bus system -- they did the last time I checked, though that was several years ago. And I can't imagine that Montreal wouldn't, cosmopolitan city that it is.

But the experience in Vancouver was that they did have limited late-night service on the main urban routes, then eliminated it in 2001 as part of a large-scale service cutback. (I believe it was already planned before the other "large-scale service cutback" of the four-month transit strike / lockout in the middle of that year.) So for a few years, Canada's third-largest city had no transit service after about 2 AM. They brought late-night service back gradually over the last year or so, I expect in response to demands from the public and from groups like Better Environmentally Sound Transportation and the Bus Riders' Union.