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Author Topic: I thought Macleans was liberal
libertarian
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Babbler # 6136

posted 05 January 2006 05:35 PM      Profile for libertarian        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This from Mark Steyn in Macleans

http://tinyurl.com/a43g2


From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 05 January 2006 05:38 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If it ever was liberal, it sure isn't now that the publisher is the very right-wing Ken Whyte, who was Conrad Black's former henchman at the National Post.

EDIT to add: This should be in media or politics if that is the angle you want to discuss. It should NOT be in the feminism forum, which is a feminist-positive space. Here it is just trolling.

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: Albireo ]


From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
libertarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6136

posted 05 January 2006 05:47 PM      Profile for libertarian        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I put it here because it seemed to be concerned with Feminism. Can it be moved or deleted?

Trolling is in the mind of the beholder. I didn't mean it to be bait.


From: Chicago | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tehanu
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posted 05 January 2006 06:06 PM      Profile for Tehanu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I think that commentary on that article definitely belongs in Feminism, because it's a totally anti-feminist diatribe. As well as racist. For example, check out the not-so-subtle argument that feminists are destroying western culture by not having babies, so said culture is being overrun by oppressive Muslims. I couldn't believe it:

quote:
"Have fewer children, later in life," advises Joan Peters. That's the strategy that demographically's delivering western Europe into the hands of a culture far more patriarchal than a 1950s sitcom dad.

The fact that it appeared in "Canada's National Magazine" makes it particularly nauseating.

Maybe though the thread title could be changed to something more descriptive?


From: Desperately trying to stop procrastinating | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Accidental Altruist
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posted 05 January 2006 06:21 PM      Profile for Accidental Altruist   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
WOW. Letter writing campaign material! The link to this article should be posted as a "call to action" as well as getting picked apart in the Feminism forum.

quote:
And, though we live in the Martian part of town, Canada long ago had the hormone treatments and a couple of snips and crossed over to the Venusian side of the street.

UGH. Not that Men are from Mars crap! There's nothing more perplexing than a man telling us we live in a "woman's world". How can Mark Steyn's perceptions be SO out of whack with reality?


From: i'm directly under the sun ... ... right .. . . . ... now! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
RUredE
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posted 05 January 2006 06:27 PM      Profile for RUredE        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They did have a cover story last month on Svend Robinson and denounced the NDP for having a thief as a candidate. The cover is posted in one of the local bars where working guys hang out for a beer after a hard day's of HONEST work.
From: B.C. | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 05 January 2006 06:32 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
audra @ rabble.ca

michelle @ rabble.ca

Ruredboy seems to be here only to spam the board by saying the same one or two things in a bunch of threads. One of these things is his attempt to troll for reactions by making the above comments about Svend Robinson. I also think he's been here recently under another name -- his modus operandi is a lot like fossilnut / tallyho's (although I'm certainly not suggesting that they have a monopoly on it).

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: obscurantist ]


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 05 January 2006 08:11 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The article is pretty f***ed. Eurabian Paris? Menace In Europe? While Europe Slept? "those societies that most enthusiastically aligned themselves with feminist priorities are also the ones that are -- what's the word? -- doomed."
From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 05 January 2006 08:14 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RUredE:
They did have a cover story last month on Svend Robinson and denounced the NDP for having a thief as a candidate. The cover is posted in one of the local bars where working guys hang out for a beer after a hard day's of HONEST work.

Hi tallyho. Bye tallyho.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 05 January 2006 08:22 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So do I win anything?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 05 January 2006 08:24 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[edited for silliness]

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: obscurantist ]


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Evil Twin
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posted 05 January 2006 08:36 PM      Profile for The Evil Twin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Re:"The article is pretty f***ed. Eurabian Paris? Menace In Europe? While Europe Slept? "those societies that most enthusiastically aligned themselves with feminist priorities are also the ones that are -- what's the word? -- doomed."

This is the type of racist/sexist crap that would have never made it into the Canadian MSM before 9-11. The only place I recall reading such hate prior to 2001 were racist trolls on USENET usually reposting articles from David Duke or Harold Covington with titles like "White women beware of feminism" and similar crap. Sadly, post 9-11, it has become all too respectable in the MSM.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 05 January 2006 08:50 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
So do I win anything?

How about a free subscription to Maclean's?


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 05 January 2006 09:10 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I already have one. And I'm almost at the point where I wish I had a cat so I could say I wouldn't use it to line the litter box. Steyn kinda pushes me over the edge. I'm not sure even Paul Wells can save it now.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sharon
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posted 05 January 2006 09:19 PM      Profile for Sharon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Steyn kinda pushes me over the edge.

Me too. More than anyone.


From: Halifax, Nova Scotia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 06 January 2006 12:27 AM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Like netizens, some journalists are trolls. Mark Steyn's a troll.

And Macleans was never left wing, and a few months back took a hard lurch to the right in pursuit of circulation.

In other words, the magazine itself is trolling. I'd ignore it.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 06 January 2006 12:29 AM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MacLean's has not been Liberal for quite some time. Right-winger Ken Whyte is a big reason why.
From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
MartinArendt
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posted 06 January 2006 04:10 AM      Profile for MartinArendt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hate, hate, HATE Macleans, even more these days than ever before!!! Aaargghhh!!!!
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 06 January 2006 04:21 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not only is it racist tripe, it is utter nonsense, from a historical/demographic perspective. Immigrant groups almost always follow reproductive patterns in the host society, after a couple of generations at most.

What feminist has ever advised women in industrial societies to have "fewer children, later in life"?


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 06 January 2006 06:46 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Evil Twin:

This is the type of racist/sexist crap that would have never made it into the Canadian MSM before 9-11.


Actually, I think I saw shit like this in the National Post before 9/11, though it may have been a bit more subtle. Every so often they printed some article expressing concern about women having kids later and suggesting that it's dangerous, much like Steyn is here (though maybe the racial overtones weren't there before).

From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 06 January 2006 11:28 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Steyn also has a long long feature, reprising much of the same language, published in both New Criterion and Wall Street Journal, in which he makes so many confident 50-year demographic projections (USA with "500 million people", Europe stagnant, declining and "40 per cent Muslim"), you would think the guy actually understood the basics; he does not

like the CIA analysts who foresaw a long future for the Soviet Union circa 1987, Steyn projects flimsy stats into some geopolitical juggernaut with surging Muslims as everyone's enemy;
weirdly, the enemy there is not feminists

not good thinking on several levels; but Steyn now has a court jester role on the US right similar to what PJ O'Rourke, Chris Buckley or Emmett Tyrrell have previously had


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
BlawBlaw
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posted 06 January 2006 04:53 PM      Profile for BlawBlaw     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Stripped of its polemic rhetoric, the basic question asked related to how much feminist energy and resources should be devoted to fighting injustice in Western democracies compared to the abject repression found in developing countries and Islamic countries in particular.

There are other themes that could be discussed in a more dignified way, but that column was not meant for publication in this specific forum.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
faith
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posted 06 January 2006 05:29 PM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Three things came to me after reading the nauseating article-
1.Steyn, like almost all MSM male journalists haven't got a clue when it comes to feminism, they just don't get it. The only thing Steyn proves in his writing is his profound lack of knowledge and understanding about feminist principles. I really have to assume that it is pure arrogance that allows publications to assign journalist that are completely in the dark on an issue to cover that issue. I really don't think that they would assign a fine arts graduate to write on the economy, or a sports writer to comment on the latest show at the national art gallery, so what is with men pouring their ignorance onto the pages of a national magazine?
2. Why do media think that by collectively lurching right they will increase their sales? All they have to do is look at the right wing National Post and its steady and spectacular losses over the years to know that that is not what Canada wants to read.
3.Western feminism must be concerned with the west- the last thing women in the rest of the world need is women from the richest areas of the world telling them what, how, and who they should be fighting. More arrogance from the western world is not helpful.
There are already women in less 'liberated' parts of the world organising themselves and developing their own strategies, the best support is to listen to them and accept that they know what is needed.

From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tehanu
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posted 06 January 2006 05:32 PM      Profile for Tehanu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BlawBlaw:
There are other themes that could be discussed in a more dignified way, but that column was not meant for publication in this specific forum.

Seems to me it should not have been published at all.


From: Desperately trying to stop procrastinating | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 06 January 2006 05:59 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
1.Steyn, like almost all MSM male journalists haven't got a clue when it comes to feminism, they just don't get it.

Be fair: Mark Steyn isn't a journalist. He's a polemicist, and a poor one at that. His trick is loading his articles with so much smug condescension that people don't notice the gaping logical and factual flaws in his reasoning.

[ 06 January 2006: Message edited by: The Dude ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
beaver
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posted 06 January 2006 06:00 PM      Profile for beaver     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can you imagine? Women aren't having enough kids! Abortions outnumber births! We damn women are putting the future of humanity in jeapardy!

Or wait, maybe when having children stops making women poorer and less employable this will turn around... Perhaps women want to share the burden of the future of humanity instead of paying the lions share of the price.


quote:
It's not just that 60 per cent of graduates are female but that the 40 per cent who aren't exist in a thoroughly feminized culture.

I wonder what he means by " thoroughly feminized culture?" Women being allowed to speak?

This statement, and much of the article, is so ridiculous that it isn't even worth arguing about. How do these people get writing jobs? Shouldn't he be at home raising his kids and tending to his wife?


From: here and there | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 06 January 2006 06:01 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by faith:
Why do media think that by collectively lurching right they will increase their sales?

Sales to whom? Now, I'm guessing here, but I think that the point is to please rich and powerful advertisers and backers. The point is to push corporatist agenda at readers. One wonders who those backers are.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
faith
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posted 06 January 2006 06:17 PM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cougyr just to indulge a little further in thread drift - I think you're absolutely right about media content created to please advertisers.
I also think that it is a self defeating strategy.
In the short term writers( to use the term loosely) like Steyn may flatter the business types whose tone is captured in Steyn's scribbles, they see their own prejudices staring back at them from the pages of a national magazine, reinforcing their sense of superiority. The business types are the minority though, and if pandering to the Chamber of Commerce style rhetoric turns off readers then the magazine influences less and less people until it goes bankrupt.
So to sell an ideology they stubbornly lose money, lose influence and fade into obscurity unless they have deep enough pockets to keep losing money like the National Post.

From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 06 January 2006 06:39 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cougyr:

Sales to whom? Now, I'm guessing here, but I think that the point is to please rich and powerful advertisers and backers. The point is to push corporatist agenda at readers. One wonders who those backers are.


1. What they were doing wasn't working.
2. The general interest news magazine is dying out. The demographic sector likely to be slowest to abandon old habits is conservative--literally so.
3. In Canada, for instance, other venerable magazines like Reader's Digest have long ago made the journey to the right, for identical reasons--that's where the largest remaining audience for their product lies.

So that's the strategy - chase a dwindling resource off to the margins, stage right.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
FabFabian
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posted 07 January 2006 12:54 AM      Profile for FabFabian        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mark Steyn is a crappy writer. That so-called piece was all over the place. I'm confused by it. Is he saying feminism is ruining the world or that Arabs/Muslims are at the root of world misogyny? F-.
From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
faith
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posted 07 January 2006 01:06 AM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're right the article is very contradictory. He ridicules feminism and feminists and then derides them for not taking on the terrorists of the world ( which all seem to be muslim in his world). It is difficult to know if he thinks the feminists are strong enough to beat the terrorists when Bushie can't seem to do it, or they are silly complaining women that are ineffective.
Very stupid creepy article.

From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Babbling_Jenn
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posted 25 January 2006 01:48 PM      Profile for Babbling_Jenn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure if anyone here is familiar with Bitch magazine, but they have a section that tears apart Jane magazine every issue.

Perhaps rabble.ca could do the same

I'm sure it would bring some press this way.


From: Rural Ontario | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 25 January 2006 01:56 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I love Bitch magazine. Good idea!
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged

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