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Topic: rape vs seduction
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otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062
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posted 28 September 2006 10:47 AM
I just had to see what Babblers thought about the commonalities to be found in both the acts of rape and of seduction. Both are all about sexual conquests both are about the ability of one person to exert certain aspects of personal power and control over the sexuality of another both operate from the premise of male privilege over women both share the goal of using and exploiting another human being in a sexual manner and then discarding them afterwards while moving onto other, newer conquests The only real difference is in the delivery of the agenda. One is socially acceptable, while the other is deemed deviant. And, depending upon the culture, the aceeptability and deviance can vary from one to the other as well.
From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006
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StockwellDay
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10342
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posted 28 September 2006 01:26 PM
quote: Originally posted by otter: I just had to see what Babblers thought about the commonalities to be found in both the acts of rape and of seduction. ... The only real difference is in the delivery of the agenda. One is socially acceptable, while the other is deemed deviant. And, depending upon the culture, the aceeptability and deviance can vary from one to the other as well.
My first thought was what the hell is this doing in the feminism forum. My second thought was to visit Breadnroses more often. Right now I'm wondering if this is what you mean by being provocative. Some people believe that yes and no mean different things. I guess some people don't. Maybe you'll find that trend holds across cultures. The only point of interest for me is the question of which is considered to be socially acceptable in our culture. Violence against women seems to be accepted by most people as a non-story, while 'sluts' are considered to be deviant.
From: the right coast | Registered: Sep 2005
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Summer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12491
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posted 28 September 2006 06:52 PM
quote:
Both are all about sexual conquests both are about the ability of one person to exert certain aspects of personal power and control over the sexuality of another
Rape and sexual assault have nothing to do with sex. Rape is about power. Rape is about violence. Seduction is part of the dialogue between two people who are attracted to one another. If person A is not at least mildly attracted to person B, the seduction will not work. quote: both operate from the premise of male privilege over women
Women are just as capable of seduction as men. (some might argue women are more effective); while some people might be seduced into sex and later regret their actions, they did consent at the time. I was going to write more about the distinction, but feel like it's not worth the effot. It boggles my mind that people continue to confuse and compare rape with any other sexual activity.
From: Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2006
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Southlander
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10465
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posted 29 September 2006 01:14 AM
I was seduced but not raped the first time I had sex. I felt violated afterwards and didn't feel it was very different to a drunken date rape, but at the time I obviously enjoyed it. I was into heavy petting, had been for quite some time, he was more innocent than me and said afterwards he thought I was just being coy. I did ask him to stop three times, which he did, and I could have left the room at any of these occasions, but I did not. I still think it was a misunderstanding, and I later on I did not regret it, figuring I had to get started sometime, and sex as it turns out,is better than heavy petting. Doing it again, I would state the ground rules more clearly, and outline my previous experiences. I do think I would have got there on my own, but it would have taken a bit longer.So seduction isn't much different to date rape, (just the longer approach) and date rape is still rape.
From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005
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Southlander
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10465
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posted 29 September 2006 01:37 AM
"Rape and sexual assault have nothing to do with sex. Rape is about power. Rape is about violence. Seduction is part of the dialogue between two people who are attracted to one another. If person A is not at least mildly attracted to person B, the seduction will not work."Just because you're attracted, doesn't mean you want to have sex! I don't think people can comment unless they have been seduced by someone they havn't previously had sex with.
From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005
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Stargazer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6061
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posted 29 September 2006 04:08 AM
quote: Consent and honesty are the only real issues. Lying to achieve an end is not seduction in my understanding of the term. Seduction is enticement or in my case when I was younger and single it meant highlighting nothing but the best qualities of both me and the person I was romantically interested in. Sex is best when it is not about conquest but instead merely about mutual pleasure.
Actually no, consent and honesty are not the only real issues. Rape has nothing to do with either, so I fail to see how pretending it does gets at a 'real issue'. And consent itself is not defined for the most part by the victim, but by the rapist, the police and the courts. So consent is a construct in this sense. It is taken away from the victim first by the rapist and then the courts. I'm not sure about seduction but I agree with Southlander that using this term to imply consent fails to miss the seduction of vulnerable people. I hope I read you right Southlander. I do agree with you though that sex is best when it is about mutual pleasure.
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004
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bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938
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posted 29 September 2006 04:27 AM
otter, I really hope you're kidding, and that you're laughing in front of your computer at those of us who are taking you seriously.Because the alternative is that you're serious, and frankly, that's pretty scary. When I saw the thread title on TAT I wondered what troll had invaded overnight. So, onwards. Rape covers a huge range of actions, some of which have been defined already by others here, so I won't repeat them again. Rape is about power and dominance expressed in a sexual way. Look at all-male prisons and how rape happens there if anyone is confused on that point. Seduction is a bit of an antiquated term, and has some sexist cobwebs still clinging to it. But using it in the 21st century context it's about fun, playfulness and the possibility of getting it on. The following aren't my words, but I forget where I first heard them: Rape is to seduction like smashing someone in the face with a frying pan is to cooking.
From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005
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otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062
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posted 29 September 2006 06:32 PM
I am pleased to see that some posters were willing to simply address the commonalities found in both rape and seduction because there is a very important aspect of social perceptions to be found here. I agree that there are a whole array of aspects found in both events that have nothing to do with the other. But those were never intended to be part of the discussion. This is only, and solely, about the exploitive aspects that these two events share in common and, perhaps even challenge the "don juan, casanova and chamberlain" personalities as not as stellar as some seem to celebrate them as in Western culture.
From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006
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StockwellDay
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10342
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posted 29 September 2006 10:17 PM
quote: Originally posted by otter: I am pleased to see that some posters were willing to simply address the commonalities found in both rape and seduction because there is a very important aspect of social perceptions to be found here.
No. They're really not that important.
From: the right coast | Registered: Sep 2005
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