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Author Topic: Jewish man held in Paris Jewish centre fire
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 30 August 2004 10:58 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A suspect held in the recent arson attack against a Sephardic Jewish community centre and soup kitchen was a semi-homeless Jewish man who worked sometimes as a guard there. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3611764.stm
Sad if true. Such "copycat crimes" are not rare, whether the non-Jewish woman claiming to be a victim of anti-semitic Arab and Black youth on the métro, or, years before, a young Beur (second-generation North-African) woman who claimed she was a victim of anti-Arab racist attacks. Important not to let this common phenomenon lead us to minimise real racist attacks.

Interestingly, the scrawl in the photo says "JUIVES dehors", that is "Jewish women" or "Jewesses" (but "Juives" is not derogatory or old-fashioned as "Jewesses" can be in English). An interesting psychological twist, that one ...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 30 August 2004 11:06 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is sad but interesting, lagatta.

Would you not read "Juives dehors" as, potentially, an anti-feminist, or at least an anti-woman statement?

Obviously, if it is accompanied by the swastikas, the (still alleged) perpetrator is muddled. But I wonder whether one of the bosses who was planning to sack him was a woman?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 01 September 2004 04:42 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bizarre.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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Babbler # 3807

posted 02 September 2004 02:31 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Nouvel Obs is speculating that the people who have taken two French journalists hostage in Iraq may be motivated by the desire to harm France more than any sort of promotion of Islam or of Iraq.

quote:
Under the hypothesis that the kidnappers are acting on their own initiative, then they must be beginning to ask themselves some questions. The numerous reactions from the entire Arab world should certainly convince the extremists of the absurdity of their act. The Ulema's mediation may have some influence and restore reason to these men. Three points in particular must be emphasized because the kidnapping:
-hurts Islam
-hurts Iraq
-is senseless in that it targets a country that has always maintained a proper reaction with regard to Iraq. So I think that if the crisis is resolved, it will be through the intermediation of Sunni religious notables.

cliquez ici


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
1st Person
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posted 06 September 2004 10:25 AM      Profile for 1st Person        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lagatta: "or, years before, a young Beur (second-generation North-African) woman who claimed she was a victim of anti-Arab racist attacks."

I don't mean to go off on a tangent; but I was taken aback that you use the word Beur. I've only heard it used in France as an extremely derogatory term for arabs - the equivalent of "nigger". Did I miss the context of your usage, or is it actually an acceptable word that's had it's meaning perverted?


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 06 September 2004 01:30 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Check out Khaled on beur.fm.

Terms such as beur (which mightn't be as derogatory as you claim) and pieds noirs aren't as offensive to the less politically correct French ear as that of the North American.

I once heard somone proudly introduce a black girl in a Breton dance troupe as "notre petite colorée."


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lagatta
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posted 06 September 2004 04:55 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Many young people (and some not so young any more!) born in France to parents of Maghrebian descent proudly call themselves beurs. In general, it is not a racist term - it is a term that comes from verlan - the "backwards" slang of folks in working-class neighbourhoods and housing estate suburbs, from "Arab". It is not even like the n- word; horribly racist by outsiders but embraced by SOME but not all Blacks. Offhand, I can think of many nasty racist expressions for Maghrebian Arabs - and others for Jews - but I really don't feel like enriching babblers' vocabulary of racial slurs in French.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 September 2004 03:05 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Les Ripoux" is a good example of backwards slang. It's also a movie about corrupt flics.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 07 September 2004 05:12 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This story has not recieved a lot of attention since it was discovered that the alledged criminal involved was Jewish. Any ideas on the reason for that?

I half toyed with the idea that some posters are ignoring the incident since it does not fit within the established ideological framework wherein Jews are under rampant attack on all front all the time, where ever they live by evil extra-judaic forces (usually Muslim) -- Attacks that justify the existence of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East, and the subsquent almost daily murder of innocent Arabs in occupied Palestine. Could this be true?

Odd that no one has questioned the potential motive of the alledged crimimal, or suggested that the person invovled might have wanted to reinforce the idea that 'Jews are under rampant attack on all front all the time, where ever they live by evil extra-judaic forces,' for the purposes of reinforcing the justification for Jewish homeland in the Middle East, and the subsquent almost daily murder of innocent Arabs in occupied Palestine.

Shucks! How likely is that?

Yet, the silence on this issue is odd, given the tenor of responses in previous threads about attacks on Jewish insititutions.

[ 07 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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Michelle
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posted 07 September 2004 05:54 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you really think that is a likely motive behind the attack - and agent provocateur trying to frame Arabs for it?

I don't know. I mean, I suppose it's possible. But it's just as possible, and an easier explanation, that the guy is either loonytunes, or that maybe he had some kind of resentment against the centre, whether because of some kind of perceived slight or disagreement with the place, or maybe against someone who belongs to it.

I mean, the guy worked there, his bosses describe him as "mentally unstable", and the article says they wanted to sack him. "Disgruntled worker" sounds like the most likely explanation to me.

[ 07 September 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 07 September 2004 06:20 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, they say that the man was disturbed. Not a big mossad plot but a little man against the odds plot trying to prove a point, kinda plot, thingy.
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Michelle
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posted 07 September 2004 07:11 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, that kind of thingy.

Seriously, though, to me it just sounds like someone went postal.


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lagatta
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posted 07 September 2004 12:00 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The man wasn't actually an employee or full-time volunteer; he was a person with a history of mental problems who had been helped by the centre (meals, a little flat in the 3rd arronissment ... hmm, one could do worse than that part of Paris - the northern part of the Marais.) I believe the man had lost entitlement to his free housing.

I'd have to know more about the case to be able to evaluate whether the centre was unwise or unfair in their approach to this man.

There is no question but that his was a clumsy attempt to use the climate of "rising antisemitism" as a smokescreen for his attack on the centre, but obviously he was not capable of doing it "professionally". I hope the man gets the psychological help he needs and that the centre gets the funds it needs to resume its function. Especially because, if ever I am down and out in Paris (which has happened...) one could certainly do worse than yummy Sephardic food!


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1st Person
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Babbler # 3984

posted 07 September 2004 01:43 PM      Profile for 1st Person        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know it's a different situation, but this reminds me of the movie "The Believer"...about a Jewish skinhead. And that was 'inspired' by a true case of a Jewish man who, in the 60's, was a member of a white supremacist movement (can't recall if it was the KKK or some neo-Nazi group).

Anyway it's a good movie, you should check it out if you haven't seen it yet.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247199/


From: Kingston | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 07 September 2004 02:19 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The man wasn't actually an employee or full-time volunteer; he was a person with a history of mental problems who had been helped by the centre (meals, a little flat in the 3rd arronissment ... hmm, one could do worse than that part of Paris - the northern part of the Marais.) I believe the man had lost entitlement to his free housing.

Thig is that people who are psychologically distressed pick their cues from the evniroment.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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