Why is this just now coming out? Up until now, the 9/11 Commission has been standing by all statements made in their report. Now they are saying they were hiding this huge pile of lies from the Pentagon?

Could this timing be due to Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, James Fetzer and others getting too much air-time including on C-SPAN which broadcast the LA 9/11 panel discussion three separate times?

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon

Is the fear of being called a "conspiracy theorist" so great that those people on this forum who otherwise go to great lengths to fight for social justice in other areas, avoid investigating apparent lies omissions in the official narrative for 9/11?

Are you tired of hearing about 9/11, or do you have nothing more to say about it?

People in this forum fight the injustices of Canada's presence in Afghanistan and the long "war on terrorism". Surely, even if one doesn't accept official complicity, is not warranted to assure that the official account of 9/11, is in fact, true? Why not also investigate the foundational event that has brought about these situations? This was done in the case of Bush administration lies about WMD's in Iraq. Why not about 9/11 too?

This is so discouraging, especially when compounded by apparent reluctance of other "left gatekeepers" such as Chomsky, Amy Goodman, etc who shy away from "outrageous conspiracy theories" to the point where they avoid looking at the possibility of "legitimate" lies and ommissions in the official 9/11 story altogether.

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Originally posted by blogbart:
Given the huge interest in social justice on this forum, I am absolutely floored by the apparent lack of interest in pursuing official lies about 9/11. That these lies exist is undisputed and becoming more apparent with passing of time, most dramatically by the recent revelations above, that NORAD/Pentagon gave misleading statements to 9/11 Commission.

Is the fear of being called a "conspiracy theorist" so great that those people on this forum who otherwise go to great lengths to fight for social justice in other areas, avoid investigating apparent lies omissions in the official narrative for 9/11?

Are you tired of hearing about 9/11, or do you have nothing more to say about it?

People in this forum fight the injustices of Canada's presence in Afghanistan and the long "war on terrorism". Surely, even if one doesn't accept official complicity, is not warranted to assure that the official account of 9/11, is in fact, true? Why not also investigate the foundational event that has brought about these situations? This was done in the case of Bush administration lies about WMD's in Iraq. Why not about 9/11 too?

This is so discouraging, especially when compounded by apparent reluctance of other "left gatekeepers" such as Chomsky, Amy Goodman, etc who shy away from "outrageous conspiracy theories" to the point where they avoid looking at the possibility of "legitimate" lies and ommissions in the official 9/11 story altogether.

With complete sincerity, maybe, someone can help me understand this apparently paradoxical and selective sense of social justice.

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As one who doesn't believe the conspiracy theory called the "9/11 commision" with surviving members of the warren commision and actually led by Kissinger(because he is unbiased)
Most people don't even want to discuss this because if any part of the lies comes to light, the whole tapestry of lies will unravel and the harsh reality is more than they are willing to accept from the US(and possibly other) governments. Course the more it goes on the more people even rational ones say look at this crazy theory they are all the same crackpot bullshit. NO THE ARE NOT. Not all conspiracies are created equal. Freemasons are not ploting the demise of free people(at least not the lower ranks ) But you have to wonder while seeing things that are even documented using scientific evidence, that rational people refute it.

I've copied and pasted the current list of topics in "international news and politics" below to illustrate that nearly every topic in this part of the Babble forum is either:

- directly related to 9/11 (invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, "war on terror")
- exacerbated by 9/11 (Israel-Arab-Iran conflict)

9/11 is THE foundational event which is driving most of today's most important current events. The Bush administration has used "9/11" as its reason to do everything from invading Iraq to wiretapping its own citizens to extraordinary renditions.

Doesn't it make sense when protesting the invasion of Iraq, to also ensure the reason for invading Iraq is true?

Bottom line: You do NOT have to be a "conspiracy theorist" to question the veracity of the "official" 9/11 narrative.

List of topics circa 9 am Tuesday Aug 8:

quote:

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Originally posted by blogbart:
...I've copied and pasted the current list of topics in "international news and politics" below to illustrate that nearly every topic...is either:

- directly related to 9/11 (invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, "war on terror")
- exacerbated by 9/11 (Israel-Arab-Iran conflict)

9/11 is THE foundational event which is driving most of today's most important current events. The Bush administration has used "9/11" as its reason to do everything from invading Iraq to wiretapping its own citizens to extraordinary renditions.

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Yes, you are quite correct, and many many people from the get go knew this.

You do NOT have to be a "conspiracy theorist" to question the veracity of the "official" 9/11 narrative. Its ok to doubt it.

You may want to characterize the many inaccuracies or omissions by the various official sources as sloppy work, or incompetence, or just bad luck.

Please go to Mike malloy from Aug 8 about this. They are clueing in finally

Also an interesting source.

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To be sure, there are plenty of alternate views on the events of 9/11.

Some believe the CIA was in on the attacks. Others wonder if bombs had been planted inside the towers. Still others think the U.S. government knew the attacks were coming but chose not to act. In March, actor Charlie Sheen said in an interview with Jones that he too questions the "official 9/11 story."

"It seems to me like 19 amateurs with box cutters taking over four commercial airliners and hitting 75% of their targets, that feels like a conspiracy theory. It raises a lot of questions." Sheen added: "There was a feeling, it just didn't look like any commercial jetliner I've flown on anytime in my life, and then when the buildings came down later on that day, I said to my brother, 'Call me insane, but did it sort of look like those buildings came down in a controlled demolition'?"

Sheen also told Jones he wanted an independent investigation of the events leading up to 9/11. "It is up to us to reveal the truth. It is up to us because we owe it to the families; we owe it to the victims. We owe it to everybody's life who was drastically altered horrifically that day and forever. We owe it to them to uncover what happened."

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I would add that not all theorists are equal either.

[ 08 August 2006: Message edited by: thorin_bane ]

I can see a legitimate case for questioning whether WTC7 was purposely demolished. Ditto United 93 being shot out of the skies rather than crashed by a rag-tag band of heroic passengers. But I've yet to be dissuaded by Loose Change or any of the other "proof" out there from the position that the Twin Towers and Pentagon were hit by planes flown by Islamist terrorist that Tuesday morning, resulting int he catastrophic collapse of the two skyscrapers.

Did 9/11 give Bush Co. the opening to implement their disatrous geoplitical strategies? Definitely, but based on their ineptitude in most (all?) other endeavours, I'm confident that this opportunity was coincidental and not coordinated.

If this makes me a sheep, then all I have left to say is BAA BAA BAA!

[ 09 August 2006: Message edited by: Sombrero Jack ]

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Originally posted by remind:
there is a gap between knowing this and being able to do squat about it, other than talk and try tio get people to see beyond their operant conditioning until there is a majority consensus to do what?

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To Catchfire (and collapse into a pancake), have you even the slightest clue as to what interests control most of the media in this world? Or at least in North America? The Big Lie technique has gotten much bigger since the Nazi era, with TV, modern communications, and a lot of psychological research and experimentation. (BTW, the Internet is eroding MSM control over what messages are available to the public, so net neutrality is hyper-important. See also Protecting our Internet)

I’m interested if there is a difference in the tendency to be suckered in by the Official 9/11 Conspiracy theory, depending on the country where one is located (and therefore getting exposure to different media, and different social pressures to believe whatever has been fabricated from the facts.)

What’s really interesting is how the 9/11 Official Conspiracy holds sway over other narratives because of social pressure. This is a topic worthy of a few dissertations. How many influential people out there are holding their tongues to keep their professional image from getting stigmatized by daring to oppose the message forced upon us by the mainstream media?

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Sombrero Jack said: I can see a legitimate case for questioning whether WTC7 was purposely demolished. Ditto United 93 being shot out of the skies rather than crashed by a rag-tag band of heroic passengers.

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Ok then, just forget about the rest of the "conspiracy theory", and press for more information on the issues you have doubts with!

Don't roll your eyes and dismiss your doubts because you don't buy into the wider "conspiracy theory".

What is wrong with being selectively critical?

Your welcome for the updates, Catchfire.

[ 11 August 2006: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]

"If all of the after action reports are untrue, for whatever reason, thats a lie, because they are asserted as the truth by people who knew better, or should have."

“The fact that they would continue, and perpetuate the lie, suggests that we need a full investigation of what is going on, and what is demonstrably an incompetent, and at worst, deceitful, federal government.”

Lou sums up by saying: “Incredible”

Incredible indeed.

[ 12 August 2006: Message edited by: blogbart ]

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Originally posted by remind:
IMO, people are soooooooooo not wanting to do anything about it, they either keep themselves in denial, or are too afraid.

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I think for the ordinary person, to start believing the 3 WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition, and then to start talking about it, is the mental equivalent of jumping from the roof of a house onto a tree, then climbing out on a limb. Most other people remain comfortably inside the house, mostly ignoring you, or watching you if they want, maybe laughing at you, maybe trying to make you fall.

I was numbed for about a month after first reading some of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth website and watching the Loose Changevideo, only a few months ago. I, too, thought that the first people who told me about the intentional bringing down of the towers by USian interests, had lost a few cards from their decks. It is indeed a shock to face up to the loads of solid evidence that refute the official 9/11 lies. Part of it is getting over the feeling that you’d been duped in such a huge way, and that the duping continues on all around you (and no, I don’t think I’m being duped again, by myself or anyone, about the 9/11 demolitions).

I think the first thing to do is inform oneself of the evidence, then to re-open and discuss anew the tragedy, and to encourage continued discussion - which is what should take place anyways in a healthy democracy.

Just keep talking about it. I don’t think the limb is going to break. With more people going out on it, it will bend down and all will be able to climb off and stand on solid ground.

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Originally posted by gram swaraj:
Greater than the fear of what will happen if you do something about these mass murders, should be the fear of what will happen if you don’t do something about them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by remind:
Oh, I have been talking and talking and talking since it happened...will just get sicker at those who refuse to see the truth.

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Ditto, J2-2.

I'd love to rant with everyone, but often you feel there'd be no reception to it. I generally take the soft sell approach and say, "just watch the video 'Loose Change.' "