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Author Topic: Helping a woman see the light
Trinitty
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posted 12 February 2002 04:49 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey girls and guys.

Can any of you recommend books, sites, or just tried-and-true tips on how to help a female family member see that her relationship is unhealthy, and help her leave it?

I realise this topic is vast, and often feels hopeless, which is why I'm asking for some specific things.

The situation we have been seeing for over a year now just keeps getting worse. Classic stuff really. Alienated from friends and family "I'm the only one that loves you", telling her that he'll kill himself if she leaves him, rapid weight gain, insistance that she not work -causing her to be dependant on him financially and not leave the house-, spitting in her face, -she broke his nose- etc... the list goes on.

We're in that tough situation... we're on the other side of the country, how do we help her without pushing her away? She "loves" him of course, so, we don't want to have this only further entrench her.

Any suggestions are appreciated.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
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posted 12 February 2002 04:52 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My book, Jane, is all about it - to the extreme. *Very* disturbing, but a real wake-up call.
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 12 February 2002 05:07 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Jane"? Is it in the Library?

Does it give advice on how to help?


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 12 February 2002 05:11 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You have to be careful since they guy would throw out anything threatening or "feminist" sounding. Ebaugh's "Becoming an Ex" would be a good bood to help her through the split. Gloria Steinem's "Revolution From Within" is a classic but he would not approve of the author. Sending books about women being murdered by their husbands or the maritime case where the woman murders her husband to avoid death, he would also find threatening and may backfire if by comparison to the main charactors her husband looks good.

Maybe true stories of child abuse - mommy dearest type books that focus on emotional abuse would be best. Even something like Daniel Steeles Nick Traina which focuses on someone whose personality takes dramatic shifts could help loosen the grip. Or a book about Terry Sawchuk.

Whatever you choose to give her remember that it has to get past her husband.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 12 February 2002 05:20 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's her "fiance", so we're trying to help her wake up before the marriage takes place and things get stickier.

I need a book for ME to read, not her, she wouldn't read a book and would probably be offended by it.

I'd like some advice on things we can say or do, or suggest that may help.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
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posted 12 February 2002 05:22 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trinitty, it could be at the library, but it might not be. It's fiction, and it takes a really bad relationship and shows how it becomes normalized. It doesn't show how to get out of one, but it shows what one is.
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 12 February 2002 05:29 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ebaugh's "Becoming an Ex" would be a good bood to help her through the split. Gloria Steinem's "Revolution From Within"
From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 12 February 2002 05:30 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll read it for my own interest Judy You've always had great posts, I'm sure your book is interesting.

BUT. This is not even normal on the surface... they fight and scream infront of people. I KNOW this is a bad relationship. My husband knows it. Dogs know it. She doesn't... or even if she does, she "feels like she won the lottery" and won't see the bad.

I'm just feeling hopeless.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 12 February 2002 06:15 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not trying to be a wet end here, but Trinity, she will have to work it out in her own mind. You can and should point the way but only she can walk that road.

If I remember correctly, she is away from family, so it may help to bring her out for a visit solo and let her get a taste of seperation for a week or two. It also looks like a holiday. Be prepared to cover the cost of it.

If anyone is having a baby, that would be a good excuse that would not raise to much suspicion. Sorry I can offer up a book or two to help give you some ideas.


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
sheep
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posted 12 February 2002 06:18 PM      Profile for sheep     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trinitty, I feel for you. I went through the exact same thing with my sister. Nothing we could say or do would change her mind about this "wonderful man" she was with. And I went through the experience feeling hopeless and drained. Even had a restraining order put on him so that he was not allowed to come near the family property, and nothing worked.

The ending was somewhat happy, or at least not as bad as it could be. After he went out and got another woman pregnant she saw the light and ditched him.

My only advice would be to continually engage her on other issues, besides the relationship. Talk to her about any issues in her life and keep engaged and interested, but let her know you don't approve of the relationship, you've made your feelings clear, your feelings for him have nothing to do with your feelings for her, but you just won't discuss her relationship with her any more. Maybe if you can build her esteem up in other areas it will help her see the light. Let her know you'll always be there for her, even if you want nothing to do with him.

It's not much but I hope it helps.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 12 February 2002 06:57 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe an understanding of classical and opperant conditioning will help. The first one is a paper, the second one seems more like an exaggeration or black humour.

http://www.upublish.com/dps-b-pdf/1120664b.pdf http://hardtruth.topcities.com/if_chapter9.htm

Being able to understand what it happening and why may help. Seems like they both blow up and get back together and mistake this emotional rollercoaster for attraction.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 February 2002 07:24 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know if this will be of much help to you, Trinitty, but....

Having been in an abusive relationship (actually a couple, though neither were physically abusive), the one thing that has to be understood is that the woman has to feel like she's getting something out of the relationship in order for her to stay. This isn't necessarily true of severely abusive relationships where women feel trapped and unable to leave, but it doesn't sound like your relative is there yet.

So you have to ask yourself, "What is her payoff?" Maybe ask her outright, because she may not have defined it for herself. And in thinking about it, she may discover that the payoff isn't so rich as she currently thinks.

But in the end, she will have to come to the conclusion for herself. Much as you hate to see such a thing happen, it's her life, she's an adult, and she is responsible for herself.

Good luck!


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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posted 12 February 2002 09:28 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trinitty, the abuse couselling agency in your town should have some literature that may help. Sadly, sometimes nothing helps to keep a woman out of that situation. My daughter was in one for 10 years off and on, even though I helped others and had all the information available which I shared with her before she ever got involved with him. Many women actually believe the story that if only they do everything right, the guy will change. I don't know how far the conditioning of your friend/family member has gone but it sounds like it's quite far already. He is using her guilt against her and she's feeling responsible for him. He's also likely got her convinced that he's hard on her to "protect" her from other people's "lies" and everything he does is because she's the most important person in the world to him. That's one of the classic conditioning ploys. I hope you can find some way to talk to her but it really depends on what she thinks she's getting out of this relationship.
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 12 February 2002 11:26 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I read a novel quite a few years ago. I believe the name of the novel was Eve. The author was a Canadian and I often wondered if she had gone through that process.

It was about an abusive relationship and the main character a fiftyish year old lady who one day just walks out of the relationship. She made out fine and it was very well written. It was a strong novel showing what an older woman can do retaining her independence.


From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 13 February 2002 12:13 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is very upsetting, thank you everyone for your help.

I asked her "what's good about your relationship? What do you like about MrX?" The answer? "He wants to take care of me, and I know that he needs me, and he'll provide for me..." It was like I was reading it right out of the Burning Bed.

We sent him a Christmas present along with the rest of the family, just so we weren't rude... Everyone has told her, except me, that they don't approve. I wanted to try to be her friend, and was worried that if I chimed in that she'd just tune everyone out. This is so frustrating. She's only 40 minutes away from her parents, and goes to visit them often. He is working far far away, and we were hoping that this would be a break from it... but now she's planning on moving to this workplace with him.... it's a remote area, and that's why I've grown concerned enough to post about it on a message board... no offense.

I'm gonna hit the library today. Thanks for all of your suggestions.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
dee
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posted 13 February 2002 01:14 PM      Profile for dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trinitty, does she ever mention anything that is going wrong in her relationship? Any complaints at all?

I have found with most people I have known who were in miserable relationships that occasionally they let things slip about how unhappy they really are. Even things that sound like day to day griping. This is your opportunity to be of some possible help. Agree with what she is saying. Encourage your friend to talk about it when she brings things up. Tell her that she deserves better and hopefully she will begin to see that. Remind her of happier times from before she started dating this man if she believes she's not good enough without him.

Someone close to me(but also living on the other side of the country) recently broke up with her fiancee in a somewhat similar situation. It took some time for her to actually make the decision but the change in her has been incredible.

Good luck with whatever you try but if, in the end, she decides to stay with this man, let her know that you're still there for her if she needs you.


From: pleasant, unemotional conversation aids digestion | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 13 February 2002 03:17 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lots of complaints Dee.

That helps. I'll try to remember that. The problem is, he's away now, so when he calls every three days he's not as much of a jerk, so she's only seeing the $$$...

Thanks again everyone. I'll let you know if anything changes.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 14 February 2002 05:25 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I had a sister marry an abusive alcoholic. There was a point when the police were being called every second night and I was meeting her in the emergency room every second week.

There is nothing you can do except stand by her. She will make her own decision in time. My sister was smart and gorgeous but it was hard to put faith in her at the time. However, the hubby dug his own grave in the end.

It's great that you are trying to help her, but beware because you may end up alienating her. She feels powerless enough. Let her feel that you know she knows what she is doing. And then just let her talk.

Codependence no more helped my sister, as did Getting Them Sober. (A series of five books.)

It's a hard time for a family to go through, but I'm sure she will come around. Best of luck.


From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skadie
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posted 14 February 2002 05:28 PM      Profile for skadie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And keep in mind, it will probably get worse before it gets better. At least keep the lines of communication open. I called Battered Women's Support Services to see how to help her, but they ended up helping me. Why don't you try?
From: near the ocean | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged

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