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Author Topic: German SPD abandon last social democratic positions, agree to become irrelevant
Ken Burch
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posted 13 September 2008 07:01 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's the implication of their choice of a new leader who backs Gerhard Schroeder's "modernization" program and won't under any circumstances form a coalition with Die Linke:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7605778.stm


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 13 September 2008 07:01 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We can assume that, if the SPD do win the next election, it can't possibly benefit workers and the poor.
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Lord Palmerston
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posted 13 September 2008 07:03 PM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They've gone the way of Blair...which explains why so many of their members have gone over to the Left Party.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 14 September 2008 12:42 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And of course, there's the continuing stupidity that lies in the fact that the CDU is leading the German government even though the combined theoretically left-of-centre parties(SPD-Gruenen-Die Linke)have had a majority since the last election.

It's time to put the social democrat-communist feud to rest, schiesskopfs. The Wall's been down for almost twenty years now. The DDR's never coming back. And the Cold War never benefited anyone in Germany but the wealthy anyway.

Hopefully, this development will lead to the wipeout of the SPD at the next German election. Clearly, they no longer have the right to ask any "left" voters to support them anymore.


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Lord Palmerston
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posted 14 September 2008 02:42 AM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More evidence of the bankrupcy of contemporary social democracy.
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Stockholm
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posted 14 September 2008 04:17 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The article says the following:

quote:
Kurt Beck, who tried to steer the SPD to the left, was deeply unpopular and it was widely believed that Mr Beck would have led the SPD to electoral oblivion.

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Wilf Day
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posted 14 September 2008 05:05 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
And of course, there's the continuing stupidity that lies in the fact that the CDU is leading the German government even though the combined theoretically left-of-centre parties(SPD-Gruenen-Die Linke)have had a majority since the last election.

The SPD loves power. In Berlin, voters accept an SPD-Left Party coalition, so they got one. In the former West Germany, a crucial number of SPD voters wouldn't accept it -- yet -- so it doesn't happen.
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
It's time to put the social democrat-communist feud to rest, schiesskopfs.

I'm certain the SPD leadership and the Left Party leadership totally agree with you.

We can expect a few dramas in the next year or so to demonstrate this to voters.

See this report on how the Hesse Left Party is ostentatiously taming itself.

quote:
At the party conference, those who are opposed to driving that price up too high got their way, with the help of Left Party co-chairman Oskar Lafontaine.

Many in Germany are deeply suspicious of the party as it was partially formed out of the political remnants of the East German communists.
quote:
Still, the Left Party has growing support, much of it coming from former members of the SPD who jumped ship due to the centrist reforms passed during the Schröder era.

The SPD under Kurt Beck has found it difficult to define its relationship to the Left Party. With the Left Party growing in popularity, the SPD, should it want to avoid being relegated to the opposition, might have to consider forming governing coalitions with the far left. One such SPD-Left Party coalition currently heads up the city-state of Berlin, but the idea has proven much more controversial in states in former West Germany. In Hesse at the moment, the SPD is currently trying to patch together a minority government coalition with the Greens -- using votes from the Left Party.

One day after Germany's Social Democrats leaked the news that Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier would be the party's candidate for chancellor, SPD leader Kurt Beck resigned in frustration.

Both Steinmeier and Beck had long said that the decision would not be made under pressure and that they wanted to wait until the Hesse government had been formed and elections in Bavaria, scheduled for later this month, had been held.



The Trots are outraged:
quote:
At its state convention, the Left Party made clear that it is ready to swallow anything in order to support a change of government in Hesse. The energetic assistance of the party executive in Berlin and its chairman, Oskar Lafontaine, ensured all obstacles were removed to cooperation with Ypsilanti and the SPD in Hesse. The delegates spared no efforts in order to present the Left Party as a responsible and reliable supporter of the new government.

Sept. 8:
quote:
Andrea Ypsilanti, the SPD's leader in Hesse, is scheduled to begin talks with the Left tomorrow on receiving backing to become state premier.

"It all begins in Hesse, whether Ypsilanti goes left."



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Ken Burch
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posted 14 September 2008 07:05 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are the Trots ever NOT outraged?

And that link about the "taming" of Die Linke is from an article that's basically a collection of quotes from the right wing of the German press(with a pretendy "center-left" publication thrown in for cover).

Finally, as to Stockholm's point:

If the SPD has been losing support to Die Linke while being led by a somewhat left leader, that's hardly going to be reversed by their choice of a leader who backs Schroeder's conservatism and is thus committed to making an SPD victory meaningless.

The SPD should just do the decent thing and disband if it's not going to be part of the radical wing of German politics. It's not worth it for that party to get in and end up(as it's new leader clearly wants it too)to the right of Helmut Schmidt. That's worse than losing.

[ 14 September 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


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M. Spector
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posted 14 September 2008 08:34 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
Are the Trots ever NOT outraged?


Why the gratuitous snark? Don't you share their concern on this issue?

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
genstrike
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posted 14 September 2008 08:53 AM      Profile for genstrike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jesus Christ, look at this wording in the BBC article in the original post

"Recently, the SPD - which rules in a coalition with the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) - has been torn apart by internal bickering, with economic modernisers pitted against left-wingers."

When the hell did implementing ideas which were stupid in the 80s make you an "economic moderniser"? This is a big problem here. The media is portraying free market reforms and neoliberal globalization as natural and the way of the future enabling them to bash leftists as being stuck in the past.


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Ken Burch
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posted 14 September 2008 09:04 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Why the gratuitous snark? Don't you share their concern on this issue?

I was reacting to the fact that the phrase "The Trots Are Outraged" is such an inherent cliche. I'm not sure whether I share their concern or not, in that coalition politics always results in some sort of compromises.

Die Linke was never going to produce a compromise-free politics. Instead, it was going to increase the range of possibilities that might be included in whatever compromise was achieved.

And really, Fourth Internationalists would probably be outraged about a coalition between two different factions of Fourth Internationalists.


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M. Spector
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posted 14 September 2008 09:36 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What was the compromise? The Left Party placed no conditions on their support for the SPD. Surely the "outrage" is justified, however much you think the outrage of the ICFI is overused.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 14 September 2008 09:46 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the reason Die Linke was willing to accept half-a-loaf(and as I read the article, all that was happening was that they weren't demanding that the SPD implement the ENTIRE Die Linke program, rather than not asking the SPD for anything) in this case was the idea that what mattered most(and I'm not sure whether I'd accept this arguement myself if I was a Die Linke member)was getting acceptance of the legitimacy of Die Linke's presence as a coalition partner in a state in "Formerly West" Germany. If I understand the idea correctly, they think that once the precedent of Die Linke participation in a coalition is established, they can demand more in other coalition negotiations.

And, while the ICFI is capable of raising legitimate issues about such things, the fact that there default response to any political development seems to be denounciation and rage, it becomes a little hard to separate the things they should be outraged about from the things they seem to be outraged about for the sheer adrenaline rush of BEING outraged.

That's all I meant.


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skarredmunkey
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posted 14 September 2008 09:50 AM      Profile for skarredmunkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Left-wing voters in Germany seem to have a lot of choices and no choices at all...

The SPD are Tony Blair clones, the Greens are no longer either radical or pacifist, and the Left Party, like most communist, ex-communist, and left-populist parties in central and Eastern Europe have weird attitudes on a lot of issues that are very insular and reactionary.

Oskar Lafontaine's wife Christa Müller said state-sponsored childcare is like female circumcision. She was denounced for it but it reflects the generally backward attitude that members of the party tend to have. And the party, as with others with a similar left-wing/nationalist ideology in Europe, have regressive attitudes on immigration.


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