My husband and I have been discussing what our future options are in terms of housing. At this point, we figure our options, especially once we start a family, are
a) buy a small condo in the far, far outer suburbs (not something we really want to do)
b) stay living in our housing co-op forever and never buy our own place, or
c) leave Vancouver and move somewhere more affordable

Seriously, it's stupid how expensive this city has gotten. Neither of us wants to leave Vancouver, since this is where our family and friends are, but more and more I feel like my hometown is turning in to a place that only welcomes the wealthy. He has a good job, and I plan to have a good job within a few years, but even so I don't think we'll ever be able to buy a house here. So far the only people I know who've managed to buy a house either did so years ago when prices were lower, or where given gifts of huge downpayments from their well-off parents.

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Originally posted by tareija:
a) buy a small condo in the far, far outer suburbs (not something we really want to do)
b) stay living in our housing co-op forever and never buy our own place, or
c) leave Vancouver and move somewhere more affordable

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a) I doubt you'll find condos much cheaper out in the far suburbs. Look around Commercial Drive, or Hastings East - there are still some affordable condos around there.
b) Co-ops can be good - personally I favour ownership.
c) If you do, make sure you calculate the cost of car ownership before you make a final decision.

It's really important to look at the real estate listings. True, a tower condo in the West End is insanely priced, but out here in East Van it's still possible.

And a lot of people who move to the burbs neglect to account for the:
a) cost of car ownership
b) misery of a long commute
c) general suckiness of suburban living. Having grown up in a burb, I will never return.

The fact of the matter is that living downtown in a big city is a luxury. Everyone wants to - but only those with a lot of money can..

So, if you don't make a lot of money, then you have to choose between living in a tiny place, or living in the suburbs.

Is there anything that should be done? Well, one could take a look at land distribution, as many South American nations have done - but no one would take the idea seriously and the very suggestion by a prominent political party would throw our market into chaos.

I have no clue what I will do if we ever have kids...

Rent is terrible too. They say that the vacancy rates are getting higher in Toronto but instead of lowering prices, landlords are now trying to compete by adding things to their units, like new carpeting, pools, etc. It's nice to have a renovated unit, but I could go for one that looked a little older if it was a couple hundred bucks cheaper!

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Originally posted by tareija:

c) leave Vancouver and move somewhere more affordable

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Originally posted by pencil-skirt:
I know that the political will to do this would need to be tremendous, but I think every new condo tower, every new apartment building should be required to leave 1 unit on each floor for social housing and the developers should have to eat the cost of the subsidized rent.

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Originally posted by tareija:
b) stay living in our housing co-op forever and never buy our own place

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Originally posted by Martha (but not Stewart):

For better or for worse, that extra cost will be passed on to the condo-buyers. This will drive the price of condos even higher.

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Probably not, actually. The condos will sell for the market rate - it's not a supermarket, where developers can set prices. It would cut into profit margins.

That being said, it could become complex if people have to pay the maintenace costs of the extra suite on the floor. Social housing is great, but a condo is not a co-op, and there would likely be some legal complications there.

However, I'd rather pay 225K for a condo in the city that 125K for a house in the burbs, then spend the other 100K on car expenses over the next 12 years (assuming a (low) average of 7k/year in car costs). At least I could sell the condo and get my money back - everything spent on a car is just pissing in the lake.

Given that the cost of fuel is not likely to go down anytime soon, that choice becomes more stark every month.

[ 22 August 2006: Message edited by: arborman ]

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The fact of the matter is that living downtown in a big city is a luxury. Everyone wants to - but only those with a lot of money can..

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And only those people whose lives are circumscribed by endless consumption and mindless conformity or abject poverty will find living in any major urban centre relevant.

I have lived in both T.O. and Van. and quickly rejected both because of the terrible pollution and soulless lives that dominate urban existence. In both instances it only took a few months to realize that living outsides the confines of such places was a hell of a lot healthier both for the body and the spirit.

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Originally posted by arborman:
Probably not, actually. The condos will sell for the market rate - it's not a supermarket, where developers can set prices.

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Good point. Obviously you're right that the condos will sell for market rate. On the other hand, if it cuts too deeply into developers' profits, then there will be fewer developers, and thus fewer condos, and thus a tighter market.

One thing no one has mentioned about down town living is noise. I spent some time living in DT Calgary and it was incredibly noisy during the night. How do you put a value on a good night's sleep?

[ 22 August 2006: Message edited by: eau ]

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Originally posted by otter:
living outsides the confines of such places was a hell of a lot healthier both for the body and the spirit.

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Originally posted by otter:

And only those people whose lives are circumscribed by endless consumption and mindless conformity or abject poverty will find living in any major urban centre relevant.

I have lived in both T.O. and Van. and quickly rejected both because of the terrible pollution and soulless lives that dominate urban existence.

Unfortunately, it also means the hoardes invade most rural and island retreats on weekends and vacations. But those of us who choose to live in places where life actually exists have learned to tolerate them if not embrace their empty existences.

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As a member of the hordes, who lives one of those 'empty existences' you so dismissively look down upon, let me speak for all of us - Get over yourself. People live in millions of ways, and enjoy different things. Is your imagination so impoverished that you cannot imagine that?

So kind of you to 'tolerate' us. I cannot believe what I'm reading. If you wrote that about a class, or a skin colour, you'd be out on your ass, but for some reason it's ok to talk like that about the majority of us who live in cities. Go jump in a (no doubt nearby) lake.

[ 23 August 2006: Message edited by: arborman ]

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living outsides the confines of such places was a hell of a lot healthier both for the body and the spirit.

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Not knowing too much about the spirit (which I don't buy), there was just an article that states that people living in the city are not nearly as fat as those who live outside the city centre. Basically, the bigger the city, the thinner the residents.

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Originally posted by otter:
But i did acknowledge that that i am tolerant of cities, even though i find the places objectionable. And if you don't think there are many who live in them that have little more in their meager existences than endless consumption what the heck do i care? In both our cases, its only an opinion

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Well, if I'd written a dismissive post about slack jawed country rubes I suspect I'd have been (rightly) smacked for it. I gather (from this and other posts) that you are one of those people who has little tolerance for difference. That you happen to be on the left is an accident of circumstance, but there are people like you all across the spectrum.

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That you happen to be on the left is an accident of circumstance, but there are people like you all across the spectrum

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