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Topic: Saddam Hussein hanged; Bush still at large
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Steppenwolf Allende
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13076
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posted 29 December 2006 11:20 AM
Well, ho de hum. Hell's getting bigger by the day.The guy is yet another US-sponsored murdering corporate tyrant turned scapegoat--a violent lemming who was stupid enough to overstep his boundaries in 1991, knowing his masters would likely hang him out to dry. The only sad part of this is that it will likely initiate a violent response from the Saddam supporters within the Iraqi resistance (they are a small but apparently well-supplied bunch), and more innocent working calls civilians will get caught in the crossfire. The only anger-raising part of this is that the entire Bush Administration and Republican Party leadership isn't going to hang with him.
From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006
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Steppenwolf Allende
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13076
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posted 29 December 2006 03:26 PM
quote: As usual you are badly misinformed
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! A history and economic reality-denying drip like you calling me (or anybody else) misinformed! You're a real laugh riot! I know he got tacit approval to invade Kuwait. It's when he decided he wanted to take over the Kuwaiti oil ports and assets is when the US government got mad at him. I would think that even a dogmatic sop-head like you would know that’s what I meant. But, as usual, I gave you too much credit.
From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006
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jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798
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posted 29 December 2006 04:40 PM
It is not only wrong but politically stupid to execute Saddam.If Saddam can be sentenced to death,what about the genius in the White House who has much more innocent blood on his hands. Executing Saddam will martyr the evil bastard and guarantee an endless stream of jihadists in future. Better to let him rot in jail. Even the bone-headed British Bulldog was cogent enough to realise that exiling Napoleon would allow the discontent to wither while executing him would provide endless fodder for the malcontents.
From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 29 December 2006 05:32 PM
I feel the same as babblerwannabe: quote: I feel sick about this news. I think it's wrong.
Most every other country that opposes the death penalty has made a plea for clemency. Guess which government hasn't? Yup good old boot licking Canada. Meanwhile it seems that the US has the power to stop this but instead Saddam Hussein will be hung at dawn. Now Bush (elder and junior) and Cheney's hands will never be officially tied to the many heinous crimes undertaken by SH. quote:
Saddam to hang at dawn in BaghdadDecember 30, 2006 - 6:24AM Saddam Hussein will be executed before 6am on Saturday, Baghdad time (1400 AEDT), a senior Iraqi government official says. "The time has been agreed upon. It will be done by six o'clock in the morning," an official said. "The agreement was reached during a meeting between Iraqi and American officials. Saddam will be handed over shortly before the execution." Lawyers for the former dictator have made a last-minute appeal to an American court to avert execution in Iraq, asking a judge to block his transfer from US custody to the hands of Iraqi officials...
http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Saddam-to-hang-at-dawn-in-Baghdad/2006/12/30/1166895508447.html
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 29 December 2006 06:02 PM
Noops, I assume you mean Bush. And no he won't.I'm shedding no tears for Saddam Hussein. However, the trial of Hussein and his co-defendants represents yet another lost opportunity to salvage at least something from the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The serious flaws in the Dujail trial, the short-circuiting of the Anjal genocide trial, and the unseemly haste with which the Iraqis and their U.S. protectors want to dispatch Hussein will unfortunately make him an undeserved martyr to Arab nationalism in the eyes of many. If the trial process had serious flaws, the "appeals" process was a mockery of justice. How sad.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289
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posted 29 December 2006 06:41 PM
quote: Originally posted by laine lowe: ... Most every other country that opposes the death penalty has made a plea for clemency. Guess which government hasn't? Yup good old boot licking Canada.
Oh,IMO, Dion or Layton should have been making comments about this being wrong, not leaving a vaccuum. Harper could never not after all his traitorous actions in the attack of Iraq. Plus his blood thirsty "Christians" would never tolerate it. quote: Meanwhile it seems that the US has the power to stop this but instead Saddam Hussein will be hung at dawn. Now Bush (elder and junior) and Cheney's hands will never be officially tied to the many heinous crimes undertaken by SH.
Think you hit on the whole point there they want their accomplises dead. Then they can write history as not knowing for sure. I mean look how they buried Prescott Bush's financing of Hitler? This is peanuts. But it will matyre him.
He is dying becauase he was found guilty of murdering what 132 Shia's? How many 100,000's of Iraqis have the USA murdered now? Maybe our wee Stevie Harper could get Saddam Hussien's old and very expensive luggage as a token, after all the initials are the same? SH=SH
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 29 December 2006 06:56 PM
Remind wrote: quote: Maybe our wee Stevie Harper could get Saddam Hussien's old and very expensive luggage as a token, after all the initials are the same? SH=SH
So VERY true -- never thought of that! Good point about the fact that Layton, Dion and Duceppe have been mute about this turn of events. Are they afraid that the majority of Canadians are as blood-thristy and single minded as some of the US citizens!?!?! This news caption and story from ABC television really sums up how mainstream USA views this event: TV Plans Tasteful Coverage of Saddam Execution http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=2758381
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289
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posted 29 December 2006 07:12 PM
quote: Originally posted by laine lowe: Good point about the fact that Layton, Dion and Duceppe have been mute about this turn of events. Are they afraid that the majority of Canadians are as blood-thristy and single minded as some of the US citizens!?!?!This news caption and story from ABC television really sums up how mainstream USA views this event: TV Plans Tasteful Coverage of Saddam Execution
If I were on the communications team of any of those 3, I would be getting on it ASAP. It will be a great benefit when campaigning, particularily after the fall out when Iraq becomes even more of a mess.
No, the majority of Canadians opposed Iraq, and would see, their speaking out against his hasty hanging and subsequent martyredom causing even more blood shed, as validation of their anti invasion of Iraq stance..
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004
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remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289
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posted 29 December 2006 07:30 PM
quote: Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
An estimated 650,000 as of August, according to both the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health . Also, the World Health Organization reports that there are epidemic levels of dysentery and similar infectious diseases in numerous areas around the country due to repeated bombing of sewer and water systems that are not being repaired.
And they are hanging Saddam for murdering 132? Not that his murdering them was a correct thing, But to use his "mass murders" as an excuse to invade, after everything else failed, and thereby killing 650 thousand more than he ever did, and hang him for his 132 autrocities is unbelievable.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 29 December 2006 08:26 PM
How fucking disgusting. Just watch for the official comment from one of Blair's ministers. Fucking hypocrites. quote:
Saddam Hussein executed Staff and agencies Saturday December 30, 2006 Guardian Unlimited The former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has today been executed by hanging, at an unspecified location in Baghdad. Speaking on condition of anonymity, a US official confirmed that the execution had taken place. US-backed Iraqi television station al-Hurra and Saudi-owned satellite channel al-Arabiya said that the former Iraqi president was executed at 6am local time, following his conviction by an Iraqi court for crimes against humanity. "Criminal Saddam was hanged to death," state-run Iraqiya television said in an announcement. The station played patriotic music and showed images of national monuments and other landmarks. The foreign secretary Margaret Beckett said that the former dictator had now been held to account. "I welcome the fact that Saddam Hussein has been tried by an Iraqi court for at least some of the appalling crimes he committed against the Iraqi people," she said in a statement. Al-Arabiya has also reported that Saddam Hussein's half-brother Barzan al-Tikriti and Iraq's former chief judge Awad Hamed al-Bander - both of whom were also sentenced to death at the close of the same trial - have also been executed by hanging...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1980290,00.html
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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Noops
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8227
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posted 29 December 2006 08:56 PM
quote: Originally posted by remind:
And they are hanging Saddam for murdering 132? Not that his murdering them was a correct thing, But to use his "mass murders" as an excuse to invade, after everything else failed, and thereby killing 650 thousand more than he ever did, and hang him for his 132 autrocities is unbelievable.
Well at the time the main reason they were invading Iraq was to rid the country of WMD and Saddam's 'link' with Al-Qaeda.
It was only after these two reasons fizzled out that Saddam was portrayed more and more as a genocidal tyrant. Saddam then became the 'real' reason that Iraq HAD to be invaded.
From: Guelph | Registered: Feb 2005
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 29 December 2006 10:24 PM
jas wrote: quote:
At the same time, by not condemning it, America must tacitly accept it, as if this quiet return to barbarism is a necessary evil in the fight for Freedom, etc.
So where does Canada stand? We certainly didn't hear any statements from Harper or McKay calling for clemency. Do our current overloard feel that we will rejoice in the barbarism of this execution? Fuck them and fuck those who don't see this as a travesty of justice and the freaking cherry on top of a series of atrocities against the Iranian people that began with the sanctions.
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 29 December 2006 10:29 PM
Damn, no edit function on this site!Anyway, a few corrections: quote: So where does Canada stand? We certainly didn't hear any statements from Harper or McKay calling for clemency. Do our current overlords feel that we will rejoice in the barbarism of this execution?Fuck them and fuck those who don't see this as a travesty of justice and the freaking cherry on top of a series of atrocities against the Iraqi people that began with the sanctions.
I sure hope I corrected all my errors.
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289
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posted 29 December 2006 11:39 PM
quote: Originally posted by Palamedes: Basic Machivellian teachings instruct the invader to ensure that the ex-ruler and all children are executed such that the subjugated peoples no longer have the hope of the ruling family one day returning to power. Therefore, they have no choice but to place their loyalty in the only other leader available.This appears to be the strategy that the US is engaging in.
Well, they certainly failed then, as just a couple days back Saddam's nephew, in the same prison escaped, and apparently has not been recaptured. You know it's too bad Thomas Hobbes and Machivelli had to write their treatise on how to grab power and keep it. I feel their words have done a great disservice to the world.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004
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remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289
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posted 30 December 2006 09:23 AM
quote: Originally posted by N.Beltov: The Rev. Jesse Jackson: Saddam's heinous crimes against humanity can never be diminished, but he was our ally while he was doing it.... Saddam as a war trophy only deepens the catastrophe to which we are indelibly linked. There are some American political leaders who aren't afraid of telling the truth. Unfortunately, the smirking liar in the White House isn't one of them.
Well, personally, I am still waiting for any ONE of our loyal opposition to stand up and speakout! It's pointless to hold out for any expectations of Harper condemning this, however, some politcal opposition party should be! Their exhibited lack of courage is not surprising, but it is shameful none the less. I guess they are presuming MOST Canadians would rather just ignore it all. Good on Rev Jackson!
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004
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ForestGreen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13611
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posted 30 December 2006 09:32 AM
I was browsing through the BBC newsforum, and was encouraged how many of the public comments weren't simply falling in line with the political rhetoric. Most (perhaps two thirds) of the statements actually reflected my own views. http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1&threadID=5096&start=0&tstart=0&edition=2&ttl=20061230184038paginatorThere is hope for the world. And good for Jesse Jackson for seeing through the B.S. [ 30 December 2006: Message edited by: ForestGreen ] (link edited) [ 30 December 2006: Message edited by: ForestGreen ]
From: Alberta | Registered: Nov 2006
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 30 December 2006 09:39 AM
Since Saddam's trial fell far below minimum standards, his hanging is just one more revenge killing occurring in Iraq.Since the United States handed him over to the Iraqis, they are also complicit in his death. The Maliki Administration in Iraq is filled with militias which have infiltrated the police, and which carry out murders and torture at a rate at least equal to Saddam. Yet the Maliki Administration turns a blind eye. Wilful blindness to crimes carried out by your own forces is itself criminal, and deserves punishment to the same extent as did Saddam.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 30 December 2006 10:37 AM
Here is an interesting comment about the significance of Saddam being executed on the date of Eid: quote: The second, and more significant in this case, aspect of Eid ul Adha is that it marks the muslim prophet Ibrahim’s willingness to sacrifice his son Ismael at the command of God (You may know these characters better as Abraham and Isaac). This festival’s name is often translated as the Feast of Sacrifice. While regional traditions vary, Eid ul Adha is normally celebrated by a family group sacrificing a lamb and sharing it equally amongst relatives and the poor. This is a day which usually combines something akin to American/Christian ideas of Thanksgiving and Easter: there is a pervading sense of thankfulness for the bounty of God and an emphasis on both charity and feasting as a manifestation, at the same time there are constant rememberances of sacrifice in the name of God. Given the context of this holiday, Saddam Hussein’s statement that "I sacrifice myself. If God wills it, he will place me among the true men and martyrs" takes on a new level of meaning. Hussein is playing into the sensibility Iraqi muslims, as well as more secular Iraqis for whom such a prominent muslim concept will still resonate. He is equating himself to the muslim prophets (the "true men"), like Ibrahim, and at the same time evoking martyrdom.
helping to martyr Saddam
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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Buddy Kat
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13234
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posted 30 December 2006 01:22 PM
quote: Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende: Well, ho de hum. Hell's getting bigger by the day.The guy is yet another US-sponsored murdering corporate tyrant turned scapegoat--a violent lemming who was stupid enough to overstep his boundaries in 1991, knowing his masters would likely hang him out to dry. The only sad part of this is that it will likely initiate a violent response from the Saddam supporters within the Iraqi resistance (they are a small but apparently well-supplied bunch), and more innocent working calls civilians will get caught in the crossfire. The only anger-raising part of this is that the entire Bush Administration and Republican Party leadership isn't going to hang with him.
Despite their efforts in makeing it an offical iraq government decision, and the spin of North American media. The people of Iraq know full well who is behind it all, which is good. I couldn't agree more that the Bush administration can get away with all the attrocities and killing it has done without any punishment.From useing chemical weapons and being a rouge nation starting a war and installing there version of government in another country.A real great example for other countries of the world to follow isn't it. Did anyone notice in the pics ...all the hangmen looked just like the classic promo terror pics...black hooded snow masks , just like real terrorists. May that be a lesson to all world leaders that have ther brains up Bush's ass or any American presidents ass for that matter..when you play ball with the US , don't drop it...they will make you pay with your life if you do, complete with terror group and hangmans noose. I guess they couldn't wait to find out the details of the gassing of the kurds incident..that would of shown ,the incident would not of happened as the US supplied the chemical weapons to use on not just Kurds but Iran as well. Well they can fool North America but unfortunately they can't fool the Arabs and that they should be worried about. They basically just proved the terrorists they fear so much had a valid point.
From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Sep 2006
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 30 December 2006 02:09 PM
An excellent piece from Tariq Ali: quote:
What's Good for Saddam May Be Good for Mubarak or the Saudi RoyalsSaddam at the End of a Rope By TARIQ ALI It was symbolic that 2006 ended with a colonial hanging--- most of it (bar the last moments) shown on state television in occupied Iraq. It has been that sort of year in the Arab world. After a trial so blatantly rigged that even Human Rights Watch---the largest single unit of the US Human Rights industry--- had to condemn it as a total travesty. Judges were changed on Washington's orders; defense lawyers were killed and the whole procedure resembled a well-orchestrated lynch mob. Where Nuremberg was a more dignified application of victor's justice, Saddam's trial has, till now, been the crudest and most grotesque. The Great Thinker President's reference to it 'as a milestone on the road to Iraqi democracy' as clear an indication as any that Washington pressed the trigger. The contemptible leaders of the European Union, supposedly hostile to capital punishment, were silent, as usual. And while some Shia factions celebrated in Baghdad, the figures published by a fairly independent establishment outfit, the Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies (its self-description: "which attempts to spread the conscious necessity of realizing basic freedoms, consolidating democratic values and foundations of civil society") reveal that just under 90 per cent of Iraqis feel the situation in the country was better before it was occupied. The ICRSC research is based on detailed house-to-house interviewing carried out during the third week of November 2006. Only five per cent of those questioned said Iraq is better today than in 2003; 89 per cent of the people said the political situation had deteriorated; 79 per cent saw a decline in the economic situation; 12 per cent felt things had improved and 9 per cent said there was no change. Unsurprisingly, 95 per cent felt the security situation was worse than before. Interestingly, about 50 per cent of those questioned identified themselves only as "Muslims"; 34 per cent as Shiites and 14 per cent as Sunnis. Add to this the figures supplied by the UNHCR: 1.6 million Iraqis (7 per cent of the population) have fled the country since March 2003 and 100,000 Iraqis leave every month, Christians, doctors, engineers, women, etc. There are one million in Syria, 750,000 in Jordan, 150,000 in Cairo. These are refugees that do not excite the sympathy of Western public opinion, since the US (and EU backed) occupation is the cause. These are not compared (as was the case in Kosovo) to the atrocities of the Third Reich. Perhaps it was these statistics (and the estimates of a million Iraqi dead) that necessitated the execution of Saddam Hussein? That Saddam was a tyrant is beyond dispute, but what is conveniently forgotten is that most of his crimes were committed when he was a staunch ally of those who now occupy the country. It was, as he admitted in one of his trial outbursts, the approval of Washington (and the poison gas supplied by West Germany) that gave him the confidence to douse Halabja with chemicals in the midst of the Iran-Iraq war. He deserved a proper trial and punishment in an independent Iraq. Not this. The double standards applied by the West never cease to astonish. Indonesia's Suharto who presided over a mountain of corpses (At least a million to accept the lowest figure) was protected by Washington. He never annoyed them as much as Saddam....
http://www.counterpunch.org/tariq12302006.html
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1275
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posted 30 December 2006 02:11 PM
quote: The fate of Saddam, as a person, is trivial. We wish he had been tried in an Iraq where democracy and the rule of law prevail. We wish his trial had been a signal of the victory of justice and the end of injustice, tyranny and totalitarianism.Saddam was evil. But, to be honest, we should say that Iraq now lives under the sway of people who are much worse than Saddam. We can simply say that the execution of Iraq is much worse than the crimes of Saddam. Much worse are those who overthrew the Saddam regime, opened the door to the unknown, dissolved the Iraqi Army, promoted and politicized the idea of De-Baathification, seized the opportunity to take revenge on Saddam's party, formed death squads, practiced sectarian killing, displaced people and triggered sectarianism. Much worse than Saddam are those who exploited the power vacuum to infiltrate into Iraq to turn it into a hunting ground and a trap.
"Saddam's Death Will Double The Pain"
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001
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laine lowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13668
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posted 30 December 2006 08:33 PM
The blow by blow description of the hanging is disturbing. Does anyone know whether CBC decided to run any of the video footage? I sure hope not.And I imagine that in their coverage of Saddam Hussein's reign of terror, they probably omitted the role the US played. Chris Floyd weighs in on the media coverage: quote:
...But do let's be fair. The New York Times is not Pravda; it does not simply engage in the wholesale whitewashing of history in order to comfort the comfortable and keep the rabble from knowing what their betters really get up to behind the glowing video screen. No, its whitewashing is often incomplete; little flecks of partial truth will occasionally show through. [And to be genuinely fair, the paper does employ some journalists of genuine courage and merit on its staff, such as the estimable Carlotta Gall, whose reports from Afghanistan have done much to reveal the ugly realities behind that "good" and forgotten war.] And so it is with McFarquhar's piece. For it is not entirely accurate to say that he does not mention U.S. support for Saddam anywhere in the story. In a bold act of speaking truth to power, the fearless McFarquhar devotes one whole sentence of 47 words to what he calls the American "tipping" toward Saddam in his war with Iran. Of course, the phrase comes some 2,278 words into the piece, by which time it's likely that very few people would still be plowing through his -- prose might be too strong a word; let's just call it his cud-like assemblage of well-chewed conventional wisdom. Here is the buried phrase entire: The fear that an Islamic revolution would spread to an oil producer with estimated reserves second only to Saudi Arabia tipped the United States and its allies toward Baghdad and they provided weapons, technology and, most important, secret satellite images of Iran’s military positions and intercepted communications. [Because lord knows, we wouldn't want Iraq and its oil reserves given over to Islamic sectarians tied to Iran, now would we? Perish the thought!] That's all McFarquhar has to say on this embarrassing subject. But credit where it's due: he did say something. Pravda never would have done that. There is simply no way to understand the reign of Saddam Hussein, nor the past few decades of Iraq's history, without including the very real and important role that the United States has played in shaping these realities. The reason that tens of thousands of American soldiers have been killed and maimed -- and that hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis have been slaughtered, and millions more plunged into hellish suffering -- is because this history has been buried, perverted, ignored or forgotten. And one of the main engines of this deliberately induced national amnesia is the New York Times and its fellow media mandarins.
http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006
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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790
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posted 31 December 2006 07:22 PM
Its all summed up by this really: quote: Al-Rubaie said that while the execution was carried out with due respect to Hussein -- and following "all international and Islamic standards" -- some witnesses and the executioner could not resist celebrating by dancing around the body after the hanging.
Tragedy and farce all at once. Meaning that can even find people who are going to make it look like anything but some filthy backwoods revenge lynching. [ 31 December 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
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