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Author Topic: Saddam Hussein hanged; Bush still at large
M. Spector
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posted 28 December 2006 11:12 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Continuing from this thread.

The Iraqi appeal court has affirmed Hussein's death sentence and the execution could take place at any time - as early as this weekend.

HRW statement.

[ 30 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nanuq
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posted 29 December 2006 10:55 AM      Profile for Nanuq   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm sure the families of whoever gets killed in retaliation will appreciate the swift justice of it all.
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babblerwannabe
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posted 29 December 2006 11:05 AM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I feel sick about this news. I think it's wrong.
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Stockholm
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posted 29 December 2006 11:12 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I oppose the death penalty under any circumstances, but if it were to be carried out, too bad we can tie Saddam and Bush together and burn thamn at the stake together in an "auto da fe"
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Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 29 December 2006 11:20 AM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, ho de hum. Hell's getting bigger by the day.

The guy is yet another US-sponsored murdering corporate tyrant turned scapegoat--a violent lemming who was stupid enough to overstep his boundaries in 1991, knowing his masters would likely hang him out to dry.

The only sad part of this is that it will likely initiate a violent response from the Saddam supporters within the Iraqi resistance (they are a small but apparently well-supplied bunch), and more innocent working calls civilians will get caught in the crossfire.

The only anger-raising part of this is that the entire Bush Administration and Republican Party leadership isn't going to hang with him.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 29 December 2006 12:36 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
...a violent lemming who was stupid enough to overstep his boundaries in 1991, knowing his masters would likely hang him out to dry.
As usual you are badly misinformed.

Hussein invaded Kuwait with the tacit approval of the US ambassador.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
nister
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posted 29 December 2006 02:50 PM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Four years earlier, Saddam ordered the Exocet attack on the USS Stark.

I've always believed that Bush wrong-footed Saddam on Kuwait, as payback for the Stark.


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babblerwannabe
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posted 29 December 2006 02:52 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Saddam has four hours left to live.
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Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 29 December 2006 03:26 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
As usual you are badly misinformed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! A history and economic reality-denying drip like you calling me (or anybody else) misinformed! You're a real laugh riot!

I know he got tacit approval to invade Kuwait. It's when he decided he wanted to take over the Kuwaiti oil ports and assets is when the US government got mad at him.

I would think that even a dogmatic sop-head like you would know thatís what I meant. But, as usual, I gave you too much credit.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 29 December 2006 03:41 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by babblerwannabe:
I feel sick about this news. I think it's wrong.

I disagree with the decision as well. Executing someone--anyone--is wrong on so many levels.

In Saddam's case, it's too easy of an out--for Saddam. He should be tried for more of his crimes and left to suffer in a cage--his jail cell--for the remainder of his life. Death, alternatively, will no doubt be a blessing to him.


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jester
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posted 29 December 2006 04:40 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is not only wrong but politically stupid to execute Saddam.

If Saddam can be sentenced to death,what about the genius in the White House who has much more innocent blood on his hands.

Executing Saddam will martyr the evil bastard and guarantee an endless stream of jihadists in future. Better to let him rot in jail.

Even the bone-headed British Bulldog was cogent enough to realise that exiling Napoleon would allow the discontent to wither while executing him would provide endless fodder for the malcontents.


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laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 05:32 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I feel the same as babblerwannabe:

quote:
I feel sick about this news. I think it's wrong.

Most every other country that opposes the death penalty has made a plea for clemency. Guess which government hasn't? Yup good old boot licking Canada.

Meanwhile it seems that the US has the power to stop this but instead Saddam Hussein will be hung at dawn. Now Bush (elder and junior) and Cheney's hands will never be officially tied to the many heinous crimes undertaken by SH.

quote:

Saddam to hang at dawn in Baghdad

December 30, 2006 - 6:24AM

Saddam Hussein will be executed before 6am on Saturday, Baghdad time (1400 AEDT), a senior Iraqi government official says.

"The time has been agreed upon. It will be done by six o'clock in the morning," an official said. "The agreement was reached during a meeting between Iraqi and American officials. Saddam will be handed over shortly before the execution."

Lawyers for the former dictator have made a last-minute appeal to an American court to avert execution in Iraq, asking a judge to block his transfer from US custody to the hands of Iraqi officials...


http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Saddam-to-hang-at-dawn-in-Baghdad/2006/12/30/1166895508447.html


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Noops
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posted 29 December 2006 05:38 PM      Profile for Noops     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Only one man in the world can still stop his execution now. Don't hold your breath though.
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John K
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posted 29 December 2006 06:02 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Noops, I assume you mean Bush. And no he won't.

I'm shedding no tears for Saddam Hussein.

However, the trial of Hussein and his co-defendants represents yet another lost opportunity to salvage at least something from the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

The serious flaws in the Dujail trial, the short-circuiting of the Anjal genocide trial, and the unseemly haste with which the Iraqis and their U.S. protectors want to dispatch Hussein will unfortunately make him an undeserved martyr to Arab nationalism in the eyes of many.

If the trial process had serious flaws, the "appeals" process was a mockery of justice. How sad.


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remind
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posted 29 December 2006 06:41 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by laine lowe:
... Most every other country that opposes the death penalty has made a plea for clemency. Guess which government hasn't? Yup good old boot licking Canada.

Oh,IMO, Dion or Layton should have been making comments about this being wrong, not leaving a vaccuum. Harper could never not after all his traitorous actions in the attack of Iraq. Plus his blood thirsty "Christians" would never tolerate it.

quote:
Meanwhile it seems that the US has the power to stop this but instead Saddam Hussein will be hung at dawn. Now Bush (elder and junior) and Cheney's hands will never be officially tied to the many heinous crimes undertaken by SH.


Think you hit on the whole point there they want their accomplises dead. Then they can write history as not knowing for sure. I mean look how they buried Prescott Bush's financing of Hitler? This is peanuts. But it will matyre him.

He is dying becauase he was found guilty of murdering what 132 Shia's? How many 100,000's of Iraqis have the USA murdered now?

Maybe our wee Stevie Harper could get Saddam Hussien's old and very expensive luggage as a token, after all the initials are the same? SH=SH


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 06:56 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remind wrote:

quote:
Maybe our wee Stevie Harper could get Saddam Hussien's old and very expensive luggage as a token, after all the initials are the same? SH=SH

So VERY true -- never thought of that!

Good point about the fact that Layton, Dion and Duceppe have been mute about this turn of events. Are they afraid that the majority of Canadians are as blood-thristy and single minded as some of the US citizens!?!?!

This news caption and story from ABC television really sums up how mainstream USA views this event:

TV Plans Tasteful Coverage of Saddam Execution

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=2758381


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Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 29 December 2006 07:09 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
How many 100,000's of Iraqis have the USA murdered now?

An estimated 650,000 as of August, according to both the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health .

Also, the World Health Organization reports that there are epidemic levels of dysentery and similar infectious diseases in numerous areas around the country due to repeated bombing of sewer and water systems that are not being repaired.


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remind
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posted 29 December 2006 07:12 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by laine lowe:
Good point about the fact that Layton, Dion and Duceppe have been mute about this turn of events. Are they afraid that the majority of Canadians are as blood-thristy and single minded as some of the US citizens!?!?!

This news caption and story from ABC television really sums up how mainstream USA views this event: TV Plans Tasteful Coverage of Saddam Execution



If I were on the communications team of any of those 3, I would be getting on it ASAP. It will be a great benefit when campaigning, particularily after the fall out when Iraq becomes even more of a mess.

No, the majority of Canadians opposed Iraq, and would see, their speaking out against his hasty hanging and subsequent martyredom causing even more blood shed, as validation of their anti invasion of Iraq stance..


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laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 07:22 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I couldn't agree more remind. I only hope that the policy and/or communication advisors either read these boards or have as an astute understanding of the political situation as you have.
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remind
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posted 29 December 2006 07:30 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:

An estimated 650,000 as of August, according to both the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health .

Also, the World Health Organization reports that there are epidemic levels of dysentery and similar infectious diseases in numerous areas around the country due to repeated bombing of sewer and water systems that are not being repaired.


And they are hanging Saddam for murdering 132? Not that his murdering them was a correct thing, But to use his "mass murders" as an excuse to invade, after everything else failed, and thereby killing 650 thousand more than he ever did, and hang him for his 132 autrocities is unbelievable.


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babblerwannabe
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posted 29 December 2006 07:32 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What role did the U.S play in the violence against Iraqi Kurds in northern Iraq in the late 90s? We will never know?

[ 29 December 2006: Message edited by: babblerwannabe ]


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babblerwannabe
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posted 29 December 2006 07:38 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found this..

quote:
... the United States supplied Saddam with economic aid and such nifty items as a computerized database for his interior ministry, satellite military intelligence, tanks and cluster bombs, deadly bacteriological samples, and the very helicopters that were used by Saddam to spew poison gas over his own Kurd citizens. And when those atrocities finally became known, the Reagan administration also lobbied to prevent any strong congressional condemnation of the Iraqi dictator...

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2003/12/16/saddam_on_trial/print.html


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laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 07:58 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Great find babblerwannabe. I think that is exactly why the US doesn't want the rest of the charges against Saddam Hussein to ever be tried in court. It is too embarassing and incriminating to reveal. How convenient that his first charge (a domestic issue with no US involvement) be tried and convicted with a death penalty that will be carried out.

The whole thing has been such a sham from the get-go and most everyone knows it.

The US deserves whatever blowback they get from supporting this sham and preventing execution.


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M. Spector
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posted 29 December 2006 08:03 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The death sentence is a further step away from respect for human rights. The death penalty, regardless of the crimes involved, is tantamount to cruel and inhuman punishment. For an Iraq where, one hopes, human rights and the rule of law will one day be respected, Saddam's punishment is an important benchmark. The execution order signals the shallowness of the government's commitment to basic human rights in meting out punishment.

The momentary elation over Saddam's demise among those who suffered under his regime will not outweigh or outlast the loss of a unique opportunity to establish a clear record of his regime's criminality. The flawed trial and a fast-track execution send a clear signal that political interference is still very much a feature of the judicial process in the new Iraq.


Richard Dicker, HRW

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ForestGreen
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posted 29 December 2006 08:10 PM      Profile for ForestGreen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reports are coming out of Arab News channels that the execution has already happened, according to Google News. Go check it out.

And I agree with all of you that the whole process has been a farce. Revenge on the part of Bush and Co.

[ 29 December 2006: Message edited by: ForestGreen ]


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ForestGreen
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posted 29 December 2006 08:11 PM      Profile for ForestGreen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
double post! sorry

[ 29 December 2006: Message edited by: ForestGreen ]


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B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 29 December 2006 08:17 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think this death sentence is hasty and wreaks of political expediency more than and honest desire for justice. They want to make a symbolic clearing-of-the-slate, but starting with a state-sanctioned murder is just more of the same.
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laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 08:26 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How fucking disgusting. Just watch for the official comment from one of Blair's ministers. Fucking hypocrites.

quote:

Saddam Hussein executed

Staff and agencies
Saturday December 30, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

The former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has today been executed by hanging, at an unspecified location in Baghdad.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, a US official confirmed that the execution had taken place.

US-backed Iraqi television station al-Hurra and Saudi-owned satellite channel al-Arabiya said that the former Iraqi president was executed at 6am local time, following his conviction by an Iraqi court for crimes against humanity.

"Criminal Saddam was hanged to death," state-run Iraqiya television said in an announcement. The station played patriotic music and showed images of national monuments and other landmarks.

The foreign secretary Margaret Beckett said that the former dictator had now been held to account. "I welcome the fact that Saddam Hussein has been tried by an Iraqi court for at least some of the appalling crimes he committed against the Iraqi people," she said in a statement.

Al-Arabiya has also reported that Saddam Hussein's half-brother Barzan al-Tikriti and Iraq's former chief judge Awad Hamed al-Bander - both of whom were also sentenced to death at the close of the same trial - have also been executed by hanging...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1980290,00.html


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babblerwannabe
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posted 29 December 2006 08:28 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bush and Co rushed to execute Saddam just like they rushed to invade Iraq. They seem to very good at killing, not so good with anything else.
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Palamedes
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posted 29 December 2006 08:36 PM      Profile for Palamedes        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Basic Machivellian teachings instruct the invader to ensure that the ex-ruler and all children are executed such that the subjugated peoples no longer have the hope of the ruling family one day returning to power. Therefore, they have no choice but to place their loyalty in the only other leader available.

This appears to be the strategy that the US is engaging in.


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laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 08:37 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rushed is certainly the operative word babblewannabe :-(
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babblerwannabe
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posted 29 December 2006 08:44 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hope they will pay for this, but something tells me that won't happen.
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Noops
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posted 29 December 2006 08:56 PM      Profile for Noops     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by remind:

And they are hanging Saddam for murdering 132? Not that his murdering them was a correct thing, But to use his "mass murders" as an excuse to invade, after everything else failed, and thereby killing 650 thousand more than he ever did, and hang him for his 132 autrocities is unbelievable.



Well at the time the main reason they were invading Iraq was to rid the country of WMD and Saddam's 'link' with Al-Qaeda.

It was only after these two reasons fizzled out that Saddam was portrayed more and more as a genocidal tyrant. Saddam then became the 'real' reason that Iraq HAD to be invaded.


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jas
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posted 29 December 2006 09:14 PM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
double-post

[ 29 December 2006: Message edited by: jas ]


From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 29 December 2006 09:14 PM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In the simplified Dick-and-Jane worldview of American media audiences*, the 'optics', (as people like to say) are great: 1. it makes it look like the war in Iraq has actually produced something, (never mind that neither Iraq nor Hussein had anything to do with the War on Terror) and 2. it makes US torture practices look better: the death-by-hanging allows America to participate vicariously in the kind of barbarism that previously only "backward" countries and "rogue nations" practiced. At the same time, by not condemning it, America must tacitly accept it, as if this quiet return to barbarism is a necessary evil in the fight for Freedom, etc.


*yes, I know not every American is this simple.


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laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 10:24 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
jas wrote:

quote:

At the same time, by not condemning it, America must tacitly accept it, as if this quiet return to barbarism is a necessary evil in the fight for Freedom, etc.

So where does Canada stand? We certainly didn't hear any statements from Harper or McKay calling for clemency. Do our current overloard feel that we will rejoice in the barbarism of this execution?

Fuck them and fuck those who don't see this as a travesty of justice and the freaking cherry on top of a series of atrocities against the Iranian people that began with the sanctions.


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 29 December 2006 10:29 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Damn, no edit function on this site!

Anyway, a few corrections:

quote:
So where does Canada stand? We certainly didn't hear any statements from Harper or McKay calling for clemency. Do our current overlords feel that we will rejoice in the barbarism of this execution?

Fuck them and fuck those who don't see this as a travesty of justice and the freaking cherry on top of a series of atrocities against the Iraqi people that began with the sanctions.


I sure hope I corrected all my errors.


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 29 December 2006 11:24 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by laine lowe:
Damn, no edit function on this site!
Yes there is. Use the button that looks like this:

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 29 December 2006 11:39 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Palamedes:
Basic Machivellian teachings instruct the invader to ensure that the ex-ruler and all children are executed such that the subjugated peoples no longer have the hope of the ruling family one day returning to power. Therefore, they have no choice but to place their loyalty in the only other leader available.

This appears to be the strategy that the US is engaging in.


Well, they certainly failed then, as just a couple days back Saddam's nephew, in the same prison escaped, and apparently has not been recaptured.

You know it's too bad Thomas Hobbes and Machivelli had to write their treatise on how to grab power and keep it. I feel their words have done a great disservice to the world.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 30 December 2006 07:28 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The Rev. Jesse Jackson: Saddam's heinous crimes against humanity can never be diminished, but he was our ally while he was doing it.... Saddam as a war trophy only deepens the catastrophe to which we are indelibly linked.

There are some American political leaders who aren't afraid of telling the truth. Unfortunately, the smirking liar in the White House isn't one of them.

It's somewhat ironic that Saddam Hussein who looked to have modelled himself on Stalin should wind up executed at the end of a show trial. Apparently, Stalin still has some living admirers in Washington and the puppet regime in Baghdad.


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Boom Boom
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posted 30 December 2006 08:43 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like Jesse Jackson. Can someone pm me with a link to his quote above?
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 30 December 2006 08:55 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Guardian obituary
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 30 December 2006 09:23 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
The Rev. Jesse Jackson: Saddam's heinous crimes against humanity can never be diminished, but he was our ally while he was doing it.... Saddam as a war trophy only deepens the catastrophe to which we are indelibly linked.

There are some American political leaders who aren't afraid of telling the truth. Unfortunately, the smirking liar in the White House isn't one of them.


Well, personally, I am still waiting for any ONE of our loyal opposition to stand up and speakout!

It's pointless to hold out for any expectations of Harper condemning this, however, some politcal opposition party should be! Their exhibited lack of courage is not surprising, but it is shameful none the less. I guess they are presuming MOST Canadians would rather just ignore it all.

Good on Rev Jackson!


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ForestGreen
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posted 30 December 2006 09:32 AM      Profile for ForestGreen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was browsing through the BBC newsforum, and was encouraged how many of the public comments weren't simply falling in line with the political rhetoric. Most (perhaps two thirds) of the statements actually reflected my own views.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1&threadID=5096&start=0&tstart=0&edition=2&ttl=20061230184038&#paginator

There is hope for the world.

And good for Jesse Jackson for seeing through the B.S.

[ 30 December 2006: Message edited by: ForestGreen ]
(link edited)

[ 30 December 2006: Message edited by: ForestGreen ]


From: Alberta | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 30 December 2006 09:39 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Since Saddam's trial fell far below minimum standards, his hanging is just one more revenge killing occurring in Iraq.

Since the United States handed him over to the Iraqis, they are also complicit in his death.

The Maliki Administration in Iraq is filled with militias which have infiltrated the police, and which carry out murders and torture at a rate at least equal to Saddam. Yet the Maliki Administration turns a blind eye.

Wilful blindness to crimes carried out by your own forces is itself criminal, and deserves punishment to the same extent as did Saddam.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ForestGreen
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posted 30 December 2006 09:40 AM      Profile for ForestGreen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was going to add that somewhere in the BBC forum, someone noted the eerie similarity to earlier videotaped executions, complete with a masked executioner. Kind of gives you that deja vu feeling.
From: Alberta | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 30 December 2006 10:37 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is an interesting comment about the significance of Saddam being executed on the date of Eid:

quote:
The second, and more significant in this case, aspect of Eid ul Adha is that it marks the muslim prophet Ibrahimís willingness to sacrifice his son Ismael at the command of God (You may know these characters better as Abraham and Isaac). This festivalís name is often translated as the Feast of Sacrifice. While regional traditions vary, Eid ul Adha is normally celebrated by a family group sacrificing a lamb and sharing it equally amongst relatives and the poor. This is a day which usually combines something akin to American/Christian ideas of Thanksgiving and Easter: there is a pervading sense of thankfulness for the bounty of God and an emphasis on both charity and feasting as a manifestation, at the same time there are constant rememberances of sacrifice in the name of God.

Given the context of this holiday, Saddam Husseinís statement that "I sacrifice myself. If God wills it, he will place me among the true men and martyrs" takes on a new level of meaning. Hussein is playing into the sensibility Iraqi muslims, as well as more secular Iraqis for whom such a prominent muslim concept will still resonate. He is equating himself to the muslim prophets (the "true men"), like Ibrahim, and at the same time evoking martyrdom.


helping to martyr Saddam


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 30 December 2006 11:00 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
Here is an interesting comment about the significance of Saddam being executed on the date of Eid:

Given the context of this holiday, Saddam Husseinís statement that "I sacrifice myself. If God wills it, he will place me among the true men and martyrs" takes on a new level of meaning. Hussein is playing into the sensibility Iraqi muslims, as well as more secular Iraqis for whom such a prominent muslim concept will still resonate. He is equating himself to the muslim prophets (the "true men"), like Ibrahim, and at the same time evoking martyrdom.


One can't help wonder if it was all planned?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 December 2006 12:56 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
March on, join bravely, let us to't pell-mell,
if not to heaven, then hand in hand to hell.

Richard III (Shakspeare.)


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Buddy Kat
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posted 30 December 2006 01:22 PM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
Well, ho de hum. Hell's getting bigger by the day.

The guy is yet another US-sponsored murdering corporate tyrant turned scapegoat--a violent lemming who was stupid enough to overstep his boundaries in 1991, knowing his masters would likely hang him out to dry.

The only sad part of this is that it will likely initiate a violent response from the Saddam supporters within the Iraqi resistance (they are a small but apparently well-supplied bunch), and more innocent working calls civilians will get caught in the crossfire.

The only anger-raising part of this is that the entire Bush Administration and Republican Party leadership isn't going to hang with him.


Despite their efforts in makeing it an offical iraq government decision, and the spin of North American media. The people of Iraq know full well who is behind it all, which is good.

I couldn't agree more that the Bush administration can get away with all the attrocities and killing it has done without any punishment.From useing chemical weapons and being a rouge nation starting a war and installing there version of government in another country.A real great example for other countries of the world to follow isn't it.

Did anyone notice in the pics ...all the hangmen looked just like the classic promo terror pics...black hooded snow masks , just like real terrorists.

May that be a lesson to all world leaders that have ther brains up Bush's ass or any American presidents ass for that matter..when you play ball with the US , don't drop it...they will make you pay with your life if you do, complete with terror group and hangmans noose.

I guess they couldn't wait to find out the details of the gassing of the kurds incident..that would of shown ,the incident would not of happened as the US supplied the chemical weapons to use on not just Kurds but Iran as well.

Well they can fool North America but unfortunately they can't fool the Arabs and that they should be worried about. They basically just proved the terrorists they fear so much had a valid point.


From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 30 December 2006 02:09 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An excellent piece from Tariq Ali:

quote:

What's Good for Saddam May Be Good for Mubarak or the Saudi Royals

Saddam at the End of a Rope

By TARIQ ALI

It was symbolic that 2006 ended with a colonial hanging--- most of it (bar the last moments) shown on state television in occupied Iraq. It has been that sort of year in the Arab world. After a trial so blatantly rigged that even Human Rights Watch---the largest single unit of the US Human Rights industry--- had to condemn it as a total travesty. Judges were changed on Washington's orders; defense lawyers were killed and the whole procedure resembled a well-orchestrated lynch mob. Where Nuremberg was a more dignified application of victor's justice, Saddam's trial has, till now, been the crudest and most grotesque. The Great Thinker President's reference to it 'as a milestone on the road to Iraqi democracy' as clear an indication as any that Washington pressed the trigger.

The contemptible leaders of the European Union, supposedly hostile to capital punishment, were silent, as usual. And while some Shia factions celebrated in Baghdad, the figures published by a fairly independent establishment outfit, the Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies (its self-description: "which attempts to spread the conscious necessity of realizing basic freedoms, consolidating democratic values and foundations of civil society") reveal that just under 90 per cent of Iraqis feel the situation in the country was better before it was occupied.

The ICRSC research is based on detailed house-to-house interviewing carried out during the third week of November 2006.
Only five per cent of those questioned said Iraq is better today than in 2003; 89 per cent of the people said the political situation had deteriorated; 79 per cent saw a decline in the economic situation; 12 per cent felt things had improved and 9 per cent said there was no change. Unsurprisingly, 95 per cent felt the security situation was worse than before. Interestingly, about 50 per cent of those questioned identified themselves only as "Muslims"; 34 per cent as Shiites and 14 per cent as Sunnis. Add to this the figures supplied by the UNHCR: 1.6 million Iraqis (7 per cent of the population) have fled the country since March 2003 and 100,000 Iraqis leave every month, Christians, doctors, engineers, women, etc. There are one million in Syria, 750,000 in Jordan, 150,000 in Cairo. These are refugees that do not excite the sympathy of Western public opinion, since the US (and EU backed) occupation is the cause. These are not compared (as was the case in Kosovo) to the atrocities of the Third Reich. Perhaps it was these statistics (and the estimates of a million Iraqi dead) that necessitated the execution of Saddam Hussein?

That Saddam was a tyrant is beyond dispute, but what is conveniently forgotten is that most of his crimes were committed when he was a staunch ally of those who now occupy the country. It was, as he admitted in one of his trial outbursts, the approval of Washington (and the poison gas supplied by West Germany) that gave him the confidence to douse Halabja with chemicals in the midst of the Iran-Iraq war. He deserved a proper trial and punishment in an independent Iraq. Not this. The double standards applied by the West never cease to astonish. Indonesia's Suharto who presided over a mountain of corpses (At least a million to accept the lowest figure) was protected by Washington. He never annoyed them as much as Saddam....


http://www.counterpunch.org/tariq12302006.html


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 30 December 2006 02:11 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The fate of Saddam, as a person, is trivial. We wish he had been tried in an Iraq where democracy and the rule of law prevail. We wish his trial had been a signal of the victory of justice and the end of injustice, tyranny and totalitarianism.

Saddam was evil. But, to be honest, we should say that Iraq now lives under the sway of people who are much worse than Saddam.

We can simply say that the execution of Iraq is much worse than the crimes of Saddam. Much worse are those who overthrew the Saddam regime, opened the door to the unknown, dissolved the Iraqi Army, promoted and politicized the idea of De-Baathification, seized the opportunity to take revenge on Saddam's party, formed death squads, practiced sectarian killing, displaced people and triggered sectarianism.

Much worse than Saddam are those who exploited the power vacuum to infiltrate into Iraq to turn it into a hunting ground and a trap.


"Saddam's Death Will Double The Pain"

From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 30 December 2006 02:26 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Capital punishment is wrong. Of anyone. Period.
Having said that he was a mass murderer. Although I feel he should have been kept alive, I shed no tears.

[ 30 December 2006: Message edited by: Peech ]


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 30 December 2006 08:10 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Saddam Hussein's final moments

Capital punishment is barbaric.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 30 December 2006 08:31 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When all else fails, kill the dictator.

- Riverbend (who has posted today)


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 30 December 2006 08:33 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The blow by blow description of the hanging is disturbing. Does anyone know whether CBC decided to run any of the video footage? I sure hope not.

And I imagine that in their coverage of Saddam Hussein's reign of terror, they probably omitted the role the US played.

Chris Floyd weighs in on the media coverage:

quote:

...But do let's be fair. The New York Times is not Pravda; it does not simply engage in the wholesale whitewashing of history in order to comfort the comfortable and keep the rabble from knowing what their betters really get up to behind the glowing video screen. No, its whitewashing is often incomplete; little flecks of partial truth will occasionally show through. [And to be genuinely fair, the paper does employ some journalists of genuine courage and merit on its staff, such as the estimable Carlotta Gall, whose reports from Afghanistan have done much to reveal the ugly realities behind that "good" and forgotten war.]

And so it is with McFarquhar's piece. For it is not entirely accurate to say that he does not mention U.S. support for Saddam anywhere in the story. In a bold act of speaking truth to power, the fearless McFarquhar devotes one whole sentence of 47 words to what he calls the American "tipping" toward Saddam in his war with Iran. Of course, the phrase comes some 2,278 words into the piece, by which time it's likely that very few people would still be plowing through his -- prose might be too strong a word; let's just call it his cud-like assemblage of well-chewed conventional wisdom. Here is the buried phrase entire:

The fear that an Islamic revolution would spread to an oil producer with estimated reserves second only to Saudi Arabia tipped the United States and its allies toward Baghdad and they provided weapons, technology and, most important, secret satellite images of Iranís military positions and intercepted communications.

[Because lord knows, we wouldn't want Iraq and its oil reserves given over to Islamic sectarians tied to Iran, now would we? Perish the thought!]

That's all McFarquhar has to say on this embarrassing subject. But credit where it's due: he did say something. Pravda never would have done that.

There is simply no way to understand the reign of Saddam Hussein, nor the past few decades of Iraq's history, without including the very real and important role that the United States has played in shaping these realities. The reason that tens of thousands of American soldiers have been killed and maimed -- and that hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis have been slaughtered, and millions more plunged into hellish suffering -- is because this history has been buried, perverted, ignored or forgotten. And one of the main engines of this deliberately induced national amnesia is the New York Times and its fellow media mandarins.


http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
babblerwannabe
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posted 30 December 2006 09:03 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am not looking at any ďvideo footagesĒ of Saddamís final moments although they are hard to avoid.
From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 31 December 2006 10:03 AM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Saddam Hussein's final moments

Capital punishment is barbaric.


Couldn't agree more!
When capital punishment is adopted, we are no better than the barbarians we seek to punish.


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
sidra
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posted 31 December 2006 05:15 PM      Profile for sidra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hussein's hanging on the Holy Muslim day of Eid Ul-Idha sets the Americans and their puppet Iraqi regime on an even lower standard of morality (if that is possible). It is also tantamount to an act of humiliation and provocation on the part of the agonizing Bush regime.

It is fair to suggest that Al-Qaida may give Bush a lesson or two in civility.

[ 31 December 2006: Message edited by: sidra ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 31 December 2006 07:22 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Its all summed up by this really:

quote:
Al-Rubaie said that while the execution was carried out with due respect to Hussein -- and following "all international and Islamic standards" -- some witnesses and the executioner could not resist celebrating by dancing around the body after the hanging.

Tragedy and farce all at once.

Meaning that can even find people who are going to make it look like anything but some filthy backwoods revenge lynching.

[ 31 December 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 31 December 2006 07:47 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Al-Rubaie said that while the execution was carried out with due respect to Hussein ... some witnesses and the executioner could not resist celebrating by dancing around the body after the hanging.

A news report today had audio footage from the execution and it appeared that some present engaged in pre-hanging taunts and insults of Hussein - to which he allegedly replied with, "You call that bravery?"

What a disgrace. The Rev. Jesse Jackson was right. This execution won't do anything for the moral standing of the US.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 01 January 2007 10:47 AM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The executioner's work is done, but that of the opinion maker has just begun anew. Now there will be a need for a new international villain who must be stopped at any and all costs, and who can be easily parodied and ridiculed by the infotainment industry.

I suppose the top candidates at this point are Hugo Chavez, Mahmud Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong-il.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 01 January 2007 01:53 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Robert Fisk:
quote:
We've shut him up. The moment Saddam's hooded executioner pulled the lever of the trapdoor in Baghdad yesterday morning, Washington's secrets were safe. The shameless, outrageous, covert military support which the United States - and Britain - gave to Saddam for more than a decade remains the one terrible story which our presidents and prime ministers do not want the world to remember. And now Saddam, who knew the full extent of that Western support - given to him while he was perpetrating some of the worst atrocities since the Second World War - is dead.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 01 January 2007 02:06 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Robert Fisk:

A good article, but obviously there are others in the know who are still around. If anyone cares about these stories, they're not really secrets. Phone Fox news and demand they cover it.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 05 January 2007 05:41 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What went wrong with Saddam's case is a microcosm of what is wrong with the American intervention in Iraq . The same unilateralism and contempt for international law and world opinion that led the Bush administration to defy the UN Security Council and wage an illegal war also set the stage for the debacle that the Saddam trial became. It was what motivated the rejection of an international tribunal as the proper venue for trying a former head of state accused of crimes of historical proportions and international dimensions. Instead, in order to maintain absolute control and to be able to impose the death penalty, which would have been precluded in a trail involving an international court, the United States and its Iraqi allies engineered the creation of an Iraqi tribunal to try the former dictator.
Source

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

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