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Topic: I'm not a feminist but...
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 09 January 2002 12:24 PM
Wonderful. That poster just reminded me of the first time I applied for a credit card (1971). (Ok, ok, can we leave aside for the moment the historic mistake I was making in letting myself get entangled in credit culture ...) Could I get my husband to co-sign my application? No husband. Well, then, did my parents live in Toronto? (I was 26 and moderately well employed at the time.) Any relatives in Toronto? Aha! A brother ... My brother. I ask you.  I finally summoned up the courage to squeak out a halting question about whether the bank's questions might constitute sex discrimination maybe just possibly a bit (please don't arrest me) ... And do you know, that worked! I got the card. (And woe is me, ever since, but that's another story.)
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 09 January 2002 12:40 PM
When my mother and father separated, they both applied for a credit card from the same company. They earned approximately the same amount of money (in fact, I think my mother earned slightly more) and they settled everything 50/50.My mother asked for a $2000 limit. My father (I think) didn't specify a limit. My father ended up being offered a credit card with something like a $5000 limit, and my mother was refused for her card. You can bet that she called them up quickly. They told her it was based on joint credit from her marriage. She then asked why it was that my father got $5000 if the criteria was the same for both of them. They hemmed and hawed. They said it had nothing to do with her sex, but they couldn't come up with any other reason that she didn't blow out of the water since their income was the same, and if anything my father had more expenses since I was living with him. She tells me that when they realized that she was not buying their excuses and knew that she was being discriminated against because of her sex and marital status (divorced woman), they got a manager on the line who approved her application on the spot. Her card was in the mail two days later. That was in 1988.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361
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posted 09 January 2002 03:38 PM
quote:
I first started hearing it from younger cousins, then in their late teens/early twenties, in the late 1980s.
Well, skdadl, I first started saying it in the late 80s! Like your cousins, I was in my late teens and too concerned with being popular with the boys to recognize that being pro-woman didn't mean being anti-men. That's the story we've been led to believe, after all, the old "you're either with us or against us". We hear "feminist" said with distaste enough times, we don't need to know what exactly is distasteful about it, we just decide that we don't want any part of it. It wasn't until I went to university that I realized that feminism wasn't something that I had to learn, on the contrary, it was something that I had to un-learn. It wasn't about not shaving your legs, it wasn't about burning your bra, it wasn't about being a lesbian (necessarily  ) and it certainly wasn't about hating men. For me, feminism was what was left after I discarded all the things that I learned it wasn't - and everything that was left was what I had believed all along, even during my "I.N.A.F.B..." days. That being said, lots of women still don't embrace the title feminist. Ms Magazine did a great collection of interviews with a variety of "feminists" on their relationships with the F-word. [ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: andrean ]
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001
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meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625
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posted 09 January 2002 08:55 PM
Both my mother and my sister are afraid of that dark, dark, F-word. However, their actions and attitudes aren't exactly what I would call 'anti-feminist'. Feminists have been negatively portrayed as, like andrean said, bra-burning, man-hating, hairy-legged, whiny, lesbians since... long before my time (aren't I the history buff!), and I'm really shocked and saddened that people would swallow that kind of stuff.I think that picture is great- I'm going to print it off, and make it into a card for my sister for some special occasion or another  While I'm posting, I figured I'd sink an un-related thread in this forum
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001
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switchbitch
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2056
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posted 09 January 2002 10:16 PM
GREAT DISCUSSION. I AM THE ONLY WOMAN AT MY WORK. MY FIRST WEEK ONE OF THE MEN CURLED HIS LIP ASKING, "YOU AREN'T ONE OF THEM FEMINISTS, ARE YOU?" FOR THE FIRST TIME I DOUBTED WHETHER IT WAS IN MY BEST INTEREST TO LABEL MYSELF. I DID END UP SAYING THAT I WAS, AND WHAT OF IT? HE HASN'T ASKED AGAIN, AND NEITHER HAS ANYONE ELSE. BUT WHY ALL THIS TODO ABOUT A WORD. IT IS AFTER ALL JUST A WORD WE USE. FUNNY HOW DEFINITIONS AND MEANINGS CHANGE OVER TIME. MANY OF MY FRIENDS SAY "I'M NOT A FEMINIST, BUT..." I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECLAIM THE WORD AND WORK ON A NEW MORE POSITIVE IMAGE FOR IT.
From: vancouver | Registered: Jan 2002
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nonsuch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1402
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posted 09 January 2002 10:54 PM
INAFB is way older than that. I started hearing - and saying - it in the early 70's, when feminism was a pretty hot word. I think, though, it mostly meant: "I haven't yet decided, because i'm not sure what will be expected of me."
There was a mood of with-us-or-against-us among the more militant women i knew back then, and they could be scary. If you said yes, i am a feminist, there might well be a tough cross-examination about your committment.
If you said, i'm not a feminist, but i'm concerned about this or angry about that particular issue, they would more likely inform and persuade you.
So, for someone slow to take sides, it was just prudent.
From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 10 January 2002 12:22 PM
Yuppers, I've said it, much to my chagrin....Started saying it in the early to mid-80s, when I was a teenager and trying on different hats, but knew the term wouldn't be appreciated by family members (primarily female, btw). And after getting engaged to and marrying a fundamentalist christian.... Well, it was a very unpopular word. But as I continued through university, I found that I was living as a feminist. I shared the feelings and ideas of many feminists that I knew. It was inescapable. The oddest thing is that my father was incredibly supportive of my being feminist. He and my grandfather had always encouraged the behaviour, if not the term... I guess I'd just grown up thinking that the rules for women just didn't apply to me, for some unstated reason... Isn't that a kick? A feminist created by two patriarchal, working class men!
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361
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posted 10 January 2002 04:17 PM
I just love the way we resist the word and yet still manage to 'out' ourselves by our actions. Feminist is as feminist does, I guess, and though I wish more women embraced the F-word, I wonder if it ultimately matters, as long as their behaviour is feminist in nature. I choose to call myself a feminist, another woman doesn't, but we both promote the rights of women in the same way... isn't she as much a feminist as I am? I happen to think it's important to use the title, to embrace it as a word of strength and pride, but then I have some very strong ideas about the power of words to define and manipulate. Arguably, it's a chicken-and-egg thing but I feel that often, things are what they are called, the connotation being as (indeed, more) imporant as the denotation. That being said, I have a little smile for my teeneage self who thought that she wouldn't be popular with the boys if she was a feminist. I wish I could let her know that 15 years later she'd be a hairy-legged lesbian feminist and more popular with the boys than she could ever have imagined! 
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001
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Timebandit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1448
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posted 10 January 2002 10:08 PM
*chuckle*Yes, and I laugh at the teenaged/twentysomething who was afraid of the term as well.... I was always popular with the boys, and scared the hell out of 'em at the same time... Still do! *heheheheheheheheh!!!* I do think it's better to own the name as well as the game, though. You're more up front and honest about who you are and what you're about. I've had people tell me I couldn't be a feminist and wear red lipstick (one of my vices), and had others tell me I don't look like a feminist because I do.... Funny, I don't think I'm behaving any differently....
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001
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