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Author Topic: Iran: the brutal repression of queers continues
Hephaestion
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posted 02 August 2005 04:16 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Continued from this thread

The international backlash to Iran's murderous policies continues, despite this story not being picked up by the MSM (that I'm aware of, anyway). I'd say kudos go to activists and bloggers wordwide for making this story an international issue.

Holland freezes extraditions of gays to Iran

quote:
The Netherlands has become the second country to halt extraditions of gays to Iran in the wake of reports two gay teens were hanged after being found found "guilty of homosexuality".

The government announced that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs would begin an investigation of the treatment of gays and lesbians in the Islamic state. Until that is complete, the government said, it would not expel gay asylum seekers from Iran.

The Netherlands had been under intense pressure from the LGBT rights group COC and from the opposition in Parliament.

The news comes as welcome relief for one asylum seeker whose application was rejected and had been scheduled to be returned to Iran next week.

The man, who has not been identified, escape Iran in the late nineties, COC said in a statement. He apparently fled the country after he was ordered to appear in court to explain his presence at what prosecutors called a homosexual party.

The man's partner was not so lucky, COC said. He was hanged a decade ago. The specific charge was smuggling, but gay rights activists say he was targeted because of his sexuality.

International rights groups say that Iran frequently uses "excuse" charges to put gays on trial for their lives.

[...]

Last week Sweden put a moratorium on the extradition of gays to Iran until the situation involving the teens is clarified.

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 August 2005 07:34 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't believe any countries were stupid enough to extradite gays to Iran even before this hanging, but then, Canada has a long history of refusing asylum for genuine refugee claimants from all over the world, so yeah, come to think of it, I guess I can believe it.

It's good to see that the deaths of this boy and young adult - as awful as it was - is at least serving some purpose. At least their deaths might prevent those assholes from getting their hands on some people they might otherwise have had delivered straight to them.

The only good thing about what happened to Kazemi and Arar is that (I hope) the Canadian government will be a lot more careful about deporting refugee claimants and convicted criminals back to Iran, Syria, and other places like it, now that there is high profile proof of what kind of murderous scum are in power in those countries.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 03 August 2005 02:53 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The "real story".....???

quote:
The two male teenagers hanged in Mashad, Iran, July 19 were executed not for having sex with each other, as has been reported, but for raping a 13-year-old boy, Human Rights Watch is claiming.

The New York Times and the Times of London separately reported the same thing.

Mahmoud Asgari, 18, and Ayaz Marhoni, 19, allegedly raped the boy at least 14 months prior to their executions, meaning at least one, and perhaps both, of them were minors at the time.

According to Scott Long, director of HRW's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights Project: "On the morning of July 19 -- that is, just before the executions -- a long article in Quds, a Farsi daily published in Mashad, described the case. It is clearly identified there as a rape case, with a lengthy interview with the father of the 13-year-old apparent victim. The account there is that the case dates back two years, that the boy in question was seized outside a shopping area by the two boys ultimately convicted, who took him to a deserted area where five other boys were also waiting. (It's not clear what happened to the five other members of what is described as a gang.) He was gang-raped at knifepoint, according to his father's account, which is supported by three passersby who interrupted the act. Passersby were attacked with knives and had their cars vandalized."

It also now seems that an article from the Iranian Students News Agency, translated and circulated by the London gay group OutRage!, was not the first article about this case, as OutRage! believed, and may not have been translated correctly.

OutRage! had reported that the ISNA article said the boys were executed for consensual gay sex. But HRW says the headline and the first sentence of the article make it clear they were hanged for "sodomy by coercion" ("lavat beh onf"). "Lavat beh onf," HRW said, is an archaic phrase that is not the normal way to refer to rape.

"Ultimately," said HRW's Long, "one has to ask what is the basis for believing that the boys were tried for consensual sodomy. It boils down to an English-language article on the Iran Focus Web site having made no mention of the rape charge. There is no other substantial evidence."

OutRage! continues to disagree. (Historically, both OutRage! and Human Rights Watch have proven to be reliable sources.)

"The ISNA report seen by our contacts in Iran makes no mention of rape or of a 13-year-old boy. It states they were hung for homosexual acts,"

OutRage! leader Peter Tatchell said this week. "OutRage!'s sources for our reportage of this story include clandestine gay and lesbian activists inside Iran, members of the democratic and left Iranian opposition, and the Web sites of government-sanctioned news agencies in Iran.

"We work with many exiled gay Iranians in London," Tatchell said. "They confirm that smears and torture against gay people are routine in Iran.

Whenever the regime wants to deflect criticism, it trumps up charges of alcoholism, adultery, rape and drug abuse against the victims of its brutality.

"OutRage! is aware of other cases in the region where a false claim of rape has been used by parents to spare a family the shame of having a gay son and to save him from imprisonment and/or execution."

Iran's Shariah-law capital offenses include murder, rape, armed robbery, apostasy, blasphemy, serious drug trafficking, repeated sodomy, adultery, prostitution, treason and espionage, according to Agence France-Presse.


apostasy?!?! blasphemy?!?!

I dunno. I's STILL trust Peter Tatchell and "Outrage" more than HRW, and *both* Times newspapers. If Tatchell is gonna stick to his guns, I'll believe him.

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 10 August 2005 12:43 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More info on the charges:

quote:
But there have always been good reasons to be suspicious of the charge of "rape" against the two boys. The sole source from within Mashad (where the boys were prosecuted and hung) which Human Rights Watch and other human rights groups relied on to confirm that the "rape" the government charged the boys with actually happened was a newspaper, Quds, controlled by hardline, conservative religious elements completely supportive of the regime.

Moreover, Mashad is considered one of the "holiest" cities in Iran, second in that status only to Qum (home of the late Ayatollah Khomeini).

...

This "holy" city of Mashad is completely under the thumb of the hardline conservatives and clerics, and the prosecutor there holds his job at their pleasure.


The blogger also claims to have been in touch with people in the 'sexual underground' in Iran who say that:

quote:
Meanwhile, new information is continuing to come in from Iran casting doubt on the validity of the rape charge against the two hanged boys. Afdhere Jama, editor of the e-zine for Queer Muslims, Huriyah, says contacts of his in Iran affirm that the two boys hung in Mashad were lovers. "The first day I found out, I called my Iranian contacts from Huriyah," says Jama. "All agreed on the fact that these boys were murdered for being queer. One of my contacts who has been to gay parties in Mashad (the city where the boys were executed) swears the boys were long-term lovers, and another source told me one of he boys' family members outed the couple.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 11 August 2005 03:32 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The protests continue...

quote:
Gay activists will protest against the treatment of gays in Iran on Thursday in five US and European cities.

The demonstrations were called in light of reports two gay teens were executed.

Details of the trial and execution are mired in controversy with some civil rights groups arguing the teens were hanged because they were gay and others agreeing with government reports that they had raped a younger teen. 

[...] 

One of the protest organizers, the British group OutRage, maintains they were executed because of their sexuality.

³We are not prepared to give the violently homophobic Iranian government the benefit of the doubt. It has previously lied to justify public executions. In any case, the death penalty is a disproportionate punishment. It is barbaric and should be abolished,² said OutRage spokesperson Ramzi Isalam.

The Iranian government has executed 4,000 homosexuals since 1979, according to estimates in the mid-1990s by the exiled Iranian gay rights group, Homan.

The demonstrations Thursday will take place in San Francisco, Montpelier, Dublin, London and Paris.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 22 August 2005 04:16 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Iranian clerics murders another gay man

quote:
Another gay man has been executed in Iran - the third in the past month - a British newspaper reports.

The Observer reports that it has been been informed by underground Iranian activists that the latest execution occurred in the city of Arak on August 16.

[...]

Last week Iran activists said that two more young Iranian men have been sentenced to die on August 27 after having been convicted by a Sharia or Islamic court for alleged homosexual intercourse and "rape". The reports cannot be independently verified.

The exiled Iranian gay rights group, Homan, claims the Iranian government has executed at least 4,000 gays since 1979.

Several European countries halted extraditions of Iranian gays back to country following the executions. But, both the US and Britain have been silent on the issue.

In London, gay rights activists are fighting the extradition of a gay man to Iran. The man, whose identity has not been revealed, told a court that he fled the country after a gay friend was arrested. The court was told that in making the arrest Iranian police seized a video of the pair kissing. 

But, Judge John Freeman ruled that there was no evidence the video existed and that the man's removal would not put him at risk on his return.

In his written ruling Freeman refers to man as "engaging in buggery" and describes his sexuality as a "predilection".

LGBT civil rights groups Stonewall and OutRage are demanding the man be given asylum.

Stonewall has written to Home Secretary Charles Clark urging him to intervene in the case. In its letter Stonewall said that Freeman's language could raise fears parts of the judiciary were "institutionally homophobic".

Over the past two years at least two gay asylum seekers facing extradition back to Iran have committed suicide.

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 21 September 2005 10:06 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yet another outrageous case of abuse by the scumbag religious nuts in Iran

Iranian Gay Tells Of Torture

quote:
A gay Iranian group has released photos and details of a 22 year old man it says was given 100 lashes for being gay. The exiled Persian Gay & Lesbian Organization identifies the man only as "Amir".

The group said in a statement Tuesday that "Amir" escaped Iran following his incarceration and after he was threatened with rearrest and execution but did not identify the country where he now is living.

The Persian Gay & Lesbian Organization said that because of his sexuality Amir experienced continued homophobia during his university studies.

He was arrested at a party, was convicted and had to pay a fine. On several more occasions he was arrested and put in custody by police, the Basij - the fundamentalist militia - and the Revolutionary Guard. During his last jailing he was whipped with a lash 100 times as part of his sentence.  

The organization said that authorities have infiltrated gay sites on the internet posing as gays and entrapping others. 

"This is a further example of the violent homophobia of the Iran1s Islamic fundamentalist regime," said Brett Lock of the British LGBT rights group OutRage!

Another exiled Iranian gay rights group, Homan, claims the Iranian government has executed at least 4,000 gays since 1979.


To read a personal interview with Amir, check out this site WARNING: There is graphic language and pictures of Amir from after the whipping at this site. For further information (also with images) check out Outrage's site here.

[ 21 September 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 06 October 2005 05:36 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
You might not think of Boy George or Matt Lucas ("Little Britain") as being political but the two are calling on the British government to pressure Iran over its treatment of gays.

The Boy and Lucas have signed a petition that will be presented to Foreign Secretary Jack Straw on Friday. British gay rights advocates have mounted a major campaign against Iran follow reports that two teens were executed in Iran after being convicted of having gay sex.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 13 November 2005 08:22 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two More Men Hanged for Being Gay

quote:
Tehran, Iran, Nov. 13 – Two young men were hanged in a public square in the northern city of Gorgan after being found guilty of lavat, or homosexual relationship, a semi-official daily reported on Sunday.

The two men, identified as Mokhtar N. and Ali A., were aged 24 and 25 years old respectively. They were hanged in public in Shahid Bahonar Square in Gorgan, the daily Kayhan wrote.

The newspaper said the “criminal past” of the two young men included kidnapping and rape, but the report made it clear that the “crime” for which they were hanged was lavat, which means homosexual relationship between two men or sodomy.
...
Under Iran’s Islamic Penal Code, homosexuality between consenting adults is a capital crime and official Iranian sources express hostility to homosexual practices....



From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 13 November 2005 08:39 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Son of a bitch!

quote:
The newspaper said the "criminal past" of the two young men included kidnapping and rape, but the report made it clear that the "crime" for which they were hanged was lavat, which means homosexual relationship between two men or sodomy.


Iran has demonstrated time and again that their judiciary is made up of corrupt liars who will say anything to justify and cover up their murderous bigotry. There should be international UN sanctions brought against these bastards!

And before anyone protests about "outside do-gooders" and the like, I quote from Amir in this article:

quote:
When asked what message he wants to send to the world about what's happening in Iran, and what he thinks about his own future, Amir pauses, then says: "The situation of gays in Iran is dreadful. We have no rights at all. They would beat me up and tell me to confess to things I hadn't done, and I would do it. The gays and lesbians in Iran are under unbelievable pressure -- they need help, they need outside intervention. Things are really bad. Really bad! We are constantly harassed in public, walking down the street, going to the store, going homeŠanywhere and anywhere, everyone, everyone! One of my dear friends, Nima, commited suicide a month ago in Shiraz. He just couldn't take it anymore. I don't know what's going to happen to me. I've run out of money. I don't know what to do. I just hope they don't send me back to Iran. They'll kill me there."


Gawd DAMN this makes me so mad!

[ 13 November 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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ex-hippy
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posted 14 November 2005 09:43 AM      Profile for ex-hippy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So if you are all outraged with this why the tacit appologism for Islam by progressives? Homosexuality is condemed by Islam as is any semblance of rights for women. Progressives should direct their energies there..or are they afraid for their lives?

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: ex-hippy ]


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 14 November 2005 09:52 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There you go again. Confusing non-condemnation with apologising for. And of course, lecturing progressives on what we should be doing.

Ex-hippy, if Muslims were attempting to influence the law that I am subject to, I would be vocal and critical about that. In fact, I have been and many here have as well.

What have you done lately to support human rights in the Middle East, by the way?


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ex-hippy
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posted 14 November 2005 10:03 AM      Profile for ex-hippy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have done nothing directly to support human rights in the middle east. What exactly can I do anyway? I do give verbal support to the US efforts there and do try to point out to those willing to listen that they should stop appologising for Islamc fundamentalists.
From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 14 November 2005 10:09 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I do give verbal support to the US efforts there and do try to point out to those willing to listen that they should stop appologising for Islamc fundamentalists.

You're doing worse than nothing. You're being misleading and mischaracterising the debate when you use the term "apologising." Cite one specific example when someone here has apologised for actions of muslim fundamentalists that deserve something else (condemnation, I would imagine.)

If you can't do that, then your contributions to these discussions are malign, or ignorant and bigoted, at best.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 November 2005 10:10 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nobody here is "apologizing" for Islamic fundamentalists who violate human rights. You're treading thin ice here - knock off the trolling.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ex-hippy
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posted 14 November 2005 10:39 AM      Profile for ex-hippy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I ain't trolling. I always get accused of trolling because my opinions differ so much from others's here. I bet $1000 that if someone replaced the word Islam in my responses by fundamental Christians no one would raise an eyebrow.
From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 November 2005 10:48 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, you're being accused of trolling because you're claiming that we "apologize" for atrocities carried out by Islamic fundamentalists.

First of all, you didn't post about "fundamental" Muslims. You generalized about Islam in your first post ("why the tacit appologism for Islam by progressives?"). But criticism of religion is allowed on babble, so I let that go.

What I have a problem with is you generalizing about participants here "apologizing" for Islamic fundamentalists. You've joined a progressive political discussion site. If you don't like it, or the participants here, you can leave. What you can't do is troll the board with generalizations about the participants here.

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 14 November 2005 10:54 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ex-hippy:
I ain't trolling. I always get accused of trolling because my opinions differ so much from others's here. I bet $1000 that if someone replaced the word Islam in my responses by fundamental Christians no one would raise an eyebrow.

I can't fathom, why some people insist that if anyone tries to explain why something happens it is immediatly described as an excuse. Some people seem to insist that the only potential approach to political discussion is to fixate solely on the moral aspect, so as all we are allowed to say, is "this is good," or "this is bad," and never "this bad thing happened" because....

It seems like a pointless exercise in enforcing unthinking political orthodoxy.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 14 November 2005 11:04 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A point I'm sure has been made a billion times before on babble, but has to be repeated for every moralising conservative that passes by.

Ex-hippy...I'll repeat...if you can cite a specific example of "apologising for", you can legitimately bring that up.

But let's face it; the only people who do apologising are conservative ideologues (who dominate the most visible form of conservatism right now); they rationalise and explain away any number of misdeeds by their representatives (look at all the effort that goes into rehabilitating anything George Bush does...and we're up to actual torture now) without an ounce of reflection or self-critique.

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


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ex-hippy
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posted 14 November 2005 11:06 AM      Profile for ex-hippy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well I see generalizations here all the time about neo-cons and conservatives so I thought free speech applied across the board. Also I refered to progressives in general, not just Babblers.

Anyway I will be less troll-like in future. But in all honesty I have found a great dearth of willingnes here for serious discussions when someone proposes contrarian views.


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Hinterland
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posted 14 November 2005 11:20 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Contrarian views?" Is that what you're calling your uninformed, over-general observations that display wafer-thin insight?

And once again, you appear confused. People legitimately generalise about political perspectives (such as neo-conservatism, liberalism, progressivism etc.) because those categories exist to capture generalisable observations of political expression. There's nothing wrong with that, provided it is substantiated. But you said "apologising for" and I do believe that's a deliberate fabrication.

I sincerely doubt you are capable of anything else.


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Albireo
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posted 14 November 2005 11:25 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ex-hippy's fundamental problem here is that he equates opposition to U.S. mid-east policy (which includes the invasion of Iraq) with support for "Islamic fundamentalism":
quote:
Originally posted by ex-hippy:
I have done nothing directly to support human rights in the middle east. What exactly can I do anyway? I do give verbal support to the US efforts there and do try to point out to those willing to listen that they should stop appologising for Islamc fundamentalists.
He unquestioningly swallows Bush's line that you're either with him, or with the terrorists. We're not with Bush, so therefore we must be on the side of Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists.

Little does he realize that Bush's meddling in the middle-east, including the war he started, has given an incredible boost to Islamic fundamentalists, and has greatly increased terrorism in the middle east and around the world. In fact, if you wanted fundamentalism to thrive and terrorism to increase, the best you could do would be to strongly support Bush and his policies.

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: Albireo ]


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ex-hippy
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posted 14 November 2005 11:25 AM      Profile for ex-hippy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hinter: can you ever try to be nice? I sincerely think you have problems relating to people.

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: ex-hippy ]


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 14 November 2005 11:28 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, you see, I think there are a lot of good muslims out there. And also a lot good Iranians in general. Most of those who live in Iran do there best to ignore the regieme and get on with their lives in a live and let live fashion. That is pretty much the way it is with most people everywhere.

On the other hand I don't think many of them are really interested in being saved by us, in the manner that the US has just saved Iraq, it seem like, rather, there is this fear that we will chop of the head of the patient in order to stop the gangrene in the leg, and that is an operation they are opposed to.

It seemed rather, that up until the last eight years of saber rattling by the US, that some of extremely conservative aspects of the Islamic oligarchy were being forced to open up and mitigate the more radical aspects of their docterine (more democratic and less Islamic), but now they can crack down partly because they have a very real outside threat to justify their authority.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 14 November 2005 11:35 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Hinter: can you ever try to be nice? I sincerely think you have problems relating to people.

Irrelevant.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 November 2005 03:06 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ex-hippy, your borderline racist comments have little to do with the topic of this thread. I have a friend who is Iranian-Canadian, and her sister is a lesbian. She is, quite simply, appalled by what is going on in her old homeland, but she does not condemn all Iranians or even all Muslims for the actions of the hardline ayatollahs and fascist fruitcakes running Iran. While she would love to see her homeland become more free and democratic, she would spit in your face if you suggested any American "intervention" as a way to solve the situation. Take your BS to another thread, or start your own.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 14 November 2005 03:36 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Take your BS to another thread, or start your own.

Or better yet, be ignored until you slink away to a more appropriate website that will accept your reactionary bile. Or indulge your reactionary bile until you are banned from babble.

The free market: so rich in choices!


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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 25 November 2005 06:17 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Three more gay men hanged in Iran.

quote:
The men, identified only by their first names, Youness, Hossein, and Ruhollah, were hanged at dawn in Diesel-Abad Prison on Friday, according to the daily Iran Newspaper.

In keeping with the pattern so far, the men were accused of kidnapping and rape.

It's a genocide in slow-motion.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ginger Jar
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posted 25 November 2005 07:00 PM      Profile for Ginger Jar        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is the Iranian regime trying to achieve?
Establishing a climate of fear can be effective for a while, but in the end it is bound to backfire. The bastards who are doing this will most likely one day find that it is themselves swinging from a gibbet, or lined up along a wall and shot.

Someday the Iranian people will free themselves from these monsters, and there will be dancing in the streets.


From: green glen | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 25 November 2005 07:05 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ginger Jar:
What is the Iranian regime trying to achieve?
Establishing a climate of fear can be effective for a while, but in the end it is bound to backfire.

I think it's a mistake to think that the regime seeks to further any rational ends with any of this. It's just irrational hatred, and the motives for it are not understandable by any but the similarly insane.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 November 2005 07:16 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Youness

Hossein

Ruhollah


Salaam

RIP



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Ichy Smith
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posted 25 November 2005 11:19 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:

I think it's a mistake to think that the regime seeks to further any rational ends with any of this. It's just irrational hatred, and the motives for it are not understandable by any but the similarly insane.


Could we try to force the government to stop all trade with Iran? Or would that just punish the people in Iran?


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 26 November 2005 05:59 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:
Could we try to force the government to stop all trade with Iran? Or would that just punish the people in Iran?

Probably the latter, IMO. Question is, do the people in general support this stuff? I'd like to think not, but I fear I'm very wrong.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ginger Jar
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posted 26 November 2005 01:24 PM      Profile for Ginger Jar        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I think it's a mistake to think that the regime seeks to further any rational ends with any of this. It's just irrational hatred, and the motives for it are not understandable by any but the similarly insane.

That's a gloomy view.
I hope you are wrong.

They are religious fanatics, and entirely rational. They know exactly what they are doing, and they want nukes.

A few heads on spikes at the crossroads may keep the peasants quiet for a while, but uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

There are many Iranians who want to kill the despised ghost of Khomeini. I hope they succeed.


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Ghost of the Navigator
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posted 26 November 2005 09:23 PM      Profile for Ghost of the Navigator        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Both Western interests and Islamists have fucked Iran up so badly that the only way to fix things would be to go back in time and prevent a certain British asshole who claimed to be against fascism from overthrowing Mossadegh's government.
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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 27 November 2005 09:20 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ginger Jar:
They are religious fanatics, and entirely rational.

When I hear the phrase 'religious fantatics,' the word 'rational' doesn't really spring trippingly to mind.

quote:
They know exactly what they are doing, and they want nukes.

A few heads on spikes at the crossroads may keep the peasants quiet for a while, but uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.


Forgive me if I'm being too literal-minded, but how are Iranian gay people standing in the way of the government acquiring nuclear weapons?

As far as heads on pikes go, you'd be right, except for this: almost certainly the gay heads don't frighten the rest of the people in the way you describe. Can you really imagine that the ordinary, heterosexual Iranian-in-the-street empathizes sufficiently with those gay victims to say to him- or herself, 'Wow, I better stay in line, because look what they did to the queers?'

Or is more likely that they join their compatriots in hawking a big loogie onto the thusly displayed foreheads of those 'lesser human beings who so offend Allah with their conduct?'

It seems to me likely that the regime is making common cause with the majority of the people in its treatment of gay people in Iran. There is perhaps little agreement on things governmental, but at least they can all agree on what the scapegoats deserve.

quote:
There are many Iranians who want to kill the despised ghost of Khomeini. I hope they succeed.

As do I.

[ 27 November 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 27 November 2005 10:10 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:

Forgive me if I'm being too literal-minded, but how are Iranian gay people standing in the way of the government acquiring nuclear weapons?

As far as heads on pikes go, you'd be right, except for this: almost certainly the gay heads don't frighten the rest of the people in the way you describe. Can you really imagine that the ordinary, heterosexual Iranian-in-the-street empathizes sufficiently with those gay victims to say to him- or herself, 'Wow, I better stay in line, because look what they did to the queers?'

Or is more likely that they join their compatriots in hawking a big loogie onto the thusly displayed foreheads of those 'lesser human beings who so offend Allah with their conduct?'

It seems to me likely that the regime is making common cause with the majority of the people in its treatment of gay people in Iran. There is perhaps little agreement on things governmental, but at least they can all agree on what the scapegoats deserve.

As do I.

[ 27 November 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]



Those heads on the wall also serve to remind women of their places as well.


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 28 November 2005 05:02 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It doesn't sound like these creeps are going to moderate their stance any time soon

snip

quote:
Since taking office in August, [President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad has jettisoned Iran's moderation in foreign policy and pursued a purge in the government, replacing pragmatic veterans with former military commanders and inexperienced religious hardliners.

The former Tehran mayor's aim is to install a new generation of rulers who will revive the radical fundamentalist goals pursued in the 1980s under the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, father of the 1979 revolution that toppled Iran's pro-Western shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.

In a sign of Ahmadinejad's new approach, Iran's hard-line government for the first time named a cleric, Islamic law teacher Abbasali Amid Zanjani, as chancellor of Tehran University, this country's oldest tertiary institution.

Zanjani's appointment on Sunday broke with a tradition that had seen university deans name chancellors since the institution's founding in the 1930s.

More than 400 Tehran University students protested the "undemocratic" way Zanjani was appointed by Iran's higher education minister and demanded he resign and be replaced by the reformist he succeeded, Reza Faraji Dana, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported.

All pragmatists, including those seeking better ties with the West, have either lost their posts or likely will lose them soon, pushing the government toward an ever more radical stance in the already volatile Middle East and in the international dispute over Iran's nuclear program, which the United States believes is seeking to build weapons.

[...]

Earlier this month, the government announced that 40 ambassadors and senior diplomats, including supporters of better ties with the West, would be fired. Also let go were pragmatists who handled Iran's nuclear negotiations with Europe under Ahmadinejad's reformist predecessor, Mohammad Khatami

In the works, but still not made public, is a deeper shake-up of the establishment in which Ahmadinejad is replacing hundreds of governors and senior officials at various ministries with young, inexperienced Islamic hardliners who oppose good relations with the West. The changes include putting fundamentalists in key posts at security agencies.


This does not bode well for LGBT people in Iran.

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Hephaestion
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posted 30 November 2005 08:52 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
International gay group calls for UN investigation of Iran
quote:
(London) The world's largest international LGBT rights group has called on the United Nations to launch a full scale investigation into reported hangings of gays in Iran.

"We are against the death penalty on any grounds, however, I find it particularly abhorrent that these executions were reportedly carried out based on people's sexual orientation and in the name of Islam," Kursad Kahramananoglu, head of the International Lesbian and Gay Association said from Istanbul.

"The UN has not done enough on this issue across the board," Kahramananoglu said, calling for a worldwide ban on the death penalty.

[...]

“We are alarmed at these latest hangings and call for an immediate investigation by the UN and national human rights monitors,” sid Paula Ettelbrick, executive director of IGLHRC.

“It’s clear that a pattern is emerging in which young men are executed as couples and that the crimes they allegedly committed always involve some form of sexual assault of another male.”



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Hephaestion
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posted 13 January 2006 07:19 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Doug Ireland tells "Sam's" story:

quote:
When he got home, Sam said, he faced intensive questioning from his family, who wanted to know where he'd been.

"But they do not know I'm gay, so I had to lie to them. But I could not give them a plausible answer. I finally called a friend and asked him to take pictures of my wounds and bruises from the beatings so I'd have some evidence-- but my friend doesn't know I'm gay either, so I had to lie to him too. I was afraid if I told him the truth the situation would go from bad to worse, so I said the basiji had caught me when I was drunk and beat me. When I got back home, the only member of my family to whom I could tell the truth of what had happed was my brother, who left Iran four years ago, and who is also gay -- so I sent him an e-mail.

"I had never considered leaving my country before this horrible episode," Sam said, "but after it I could sense the shadow of death and torture on my back, so I decided to escape to save my life."

It took Sam six months after his kidnapping by the basiji before he could arrange to escape from Iran. Four months ago, Sam made his way to Pakistan. There, he filed a request for asylum with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, and eventually got in touch with the Persian Gay and Lesbian Organization, the largest Iranian gay organization, which has secretariats in several countries. The PGLO, which has helped me in my previous reportages on the gay tragedy in Iran, asked me to help Sam tell his story to the world. For as Sam said, "Iranian homosexuals have had all their rights taken away from them, and face a bitter destiny."

Sam today is in Pakistan, still waiting for the UNHCR to recognize as legitimate his demand for asylum in a gay-friendly country.

There are many other gay refugees from Iranian terror like Sam, almost all of them in dire financial straights and living a precarious existence, constantly fearful that the countries they've managed to flee to will deport them back to Iran, where a dire fate awaits them. The PGLO desperately needs our financial and moral support, and help in obtaining asylum for these gay refugees. To find out how to help, please contact the PGLO through the English-language page of its website, by clicking here.

[ 13 January 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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lagatta
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posted 13 January 2006 07:57 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm glad you have found a link about where we can help. Like many babblers no doubt, I read all these threads about human-rights violations against LGBT people (and similar threads about other human groups) but don't have much to say beyond how dreadful and swearing at the fundamentalist fuckers.

I hope Amnesty or other groups are still raising this issue during Gay Pride and other LGBT events.


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Hephaestion
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posted 04 March 2006 04:29 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dutch minister of immigration recommends rejecting gay Iranian refugees

quote:
The Dutch minister of immigration is recommending the end of a moratorium on the deportation of gay asylum-seekers from Iran. Rita Verdonk made the call in a formal letter to the lower house of the Netherlands parliament.

Last year Verdonk halted extraditions of gays to Iran in the wake of reports two gay teens were hanged after being found found "guilty of homosexuality". 

In her letter to parliament this week Verdonk said that while gay sex was punishable by death under Islamic law an investigation into the hangings had determined that the pair were hanged not because they were gay but because they had robbed, kidnapped and raped a minor.

[...]

The issue of ending the moratorium will be debated in parliament next week. Political parties in the Netherlands appear as divided as human rights groups on the issue. Leftist parties want the ban on deportations to continue while right of center parties want it ended. 

Verdonk's change in position has angered Dutch LGBT groups. The organization COC called her decision "revolting" and said it was based on incorrect information.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 11 March 2006 08:36 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Re:

Dutch minister of immigration recommends rejecting gay Iranian refugees...

I meant to post this yesterday, but I heard on Radio Netherlands (via CBC Overnight) that Rita Verdonk thinks queer Iranians will be safe back in Iran, as long as they "hide" the fact that they are queer (something various activists and advocates denounced as impractical and likely to fail.)



This makes me SO !!! Would there even be any ATTEMPT to tell Jews, for instance, to "hide their Jewishness" under comparable circumstances?

It sounds like this nitwit minister would make for a run-of-the-mill member of the Canadian Immigration Review Board, though.

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Clog-boy
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posted 11 March 2006 10:07 AM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, our dear Rita Verdonk has been making herself pretty popular lately...

- She (or at least, her department) has been spilling information about refugees from Congo, who were sent back so-called secretly. Secretly, because their return to Congo wasn't without danger.
But apparently, the Congolese government somehow received information about their return..! Gee, I wonder, eh?

- At the moment, the case of Taida Pasic is running. She's a 18-year old from Kosovo, who's about 8 weeks from getting her VWO-diploma (one of the highest diploma's achievable in Dutch highschools). She's about to be evicted, since she illegally returned to Holland after her family leaving Holland in 2005. The family was paid 7000 euros to piss off and build a new life in Kosovo. But the girl wanted to get her diploma, so Taida came back last summer to finish her highschool. But nooo. Rita had to interfere..! Now Taida has 28 days to leave the counrty. The school is looking at options to let her do her exams from abroad.
So even the school is willing to let the girl succeed, but the Ice-Queen has to put her foot down...

- Another case is the case of soccerplayer Salomon Kalou. This case is less life-interfering, yet has manged to arouse the entire soccer-loving population of the Netherlands.
Kalou (who plays for Feyenoord, where also Canadian Jonathan Deguzman plays) is from Ivory Coast, but has requested a sped-up naturalization in order to receive the Dutch nationality. The main reason, is because he wants to try and become Worldchampion with the Netherlands at the WC2006 in Germany, some 90 days from now. He's a very talented kid, who could very well add something to our national team. Many people have spoken in favour of his naturalization, among them our coach Marco van Basten.
But also in this case, the Iron Lady has to put her foot down. Her argument was that soccer doesn't have any social significance.
Well, I'd like her to say that again if we'd ever became Worldchampion. Because then she'd see Holland go ape-shit in the wink of an eye. Party-hardy like it's 1999, everybody drunk as a skunk for some 2 weeks, nobody able to work, our economy collapses.. We'll see whether soccer has no significance, hah!

But this is just the crap that I spill about her from the top of my head, but she's been on the news a whole lot more often. And to be honest, I can't really recall her coming on the news in a positive manner. Maybe some of it has been positive news to some punk ass right-wing white-supremacists, but it sure as hell hasn't been to me..!

[ 11 March 2006: Message edited by: Clog-boy ]


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 11 March 2006 10:36 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, Cloggy... I was *hoping* you'd notice this thread, and that you'd be able to add more "colour" (as they say).

So, is this woman just a bigot, or what?!

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Clog-boy
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posted 11 March 2006 10:42 AM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Almost to the point of looking up Bigot on Wikipedia and finding:
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions differing from his own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman. Today, it is considered a synonym of Rita Vedonk...

[ 11 March 2006: Message edited by: Clog-boy ]


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 11 March 2006 10:47 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She certainly sounds like a chauvinist, in the original sense of the word; a real xenophobe.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Clog-boy
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posted 11 March 2006 11:28 AM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She thinks she's doing any good by setting hard rules and legislation and sticking to them, but she's completely oblivious to the fact she's widing the gap between the different cultures living in the Netherlands.
The humane spirit is long gone and the current "terrorist-threat" has only hardened the contrast.

That terroris threat is btw something I never understood. What kinda terrorism did we have here in the Netherlands up till now?
The killing of Van Gogh by Mohammed Bouyeri? According to the media and the government it was, but I never heard them mention terrorism when Fortuyn got killed by the Dutch Van der Graaf. Pretty much similar killings, with similar motives. Nobody mentioned terrorism at that time..!
Other than that, we practically had no indication terrorism has come to the Netherlands. And still our government keeps sowing seeds of panic and anxiety, thus breeding distrust and hatred among the Dutch population.

I haven't been politically aware for too many years, but I've never heard so many complaints about a single government. This has got to be the worst one in decades..!

Our PM, Jan-Peter "Harry Potter" Balkenende should just take his Nimbus2000 and get lost... And please, let him take the Wicked Witch of the West Rita along with him...!

[Ctrl-Alt-Del-Picture-Gone! Was far from thread-related.. ]

[ 11 March 2006: Message edited by: Clog-boy ]


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Clog-boy
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posted 11 March 2006 11:30 AM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just noticed: Sorry for the thread drift..!
Had to get it off my chest...

From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 11 March 2006 11:51 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
sorry, Clog Boy, but could ya take that image out? It's causing some *nasty* side-scroll for me...
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
sidra
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posted 14 March 2006 07:49 AM      Profile for sidra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Western imperialism and hypocrisy are for all to see in their dealing with Iran. The US, France and Germany are determined to haul Iran before the Security Council for its -legitimate- nuclear aspirations.

How is it that these pseudo-defenders of democracy and human rights are not instead working on expulsing Iran from the UN for its persecution of Gays and Lesbians or other human rights rights atrocities. But Hey, that would not involve a little war to fill the pockets of merchant of armements here and there, among many other interesting and alluring things.


From: Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 18 March 2006 09:24 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank goodness someone like Doug Ireland is keeping an eye on these sleazeballs

ENGLAND: ANOTHER GAY IRANIAN FACES DEPORTATION

quote:
Medhi is a 26-year-old gay Iranian who fled Iran to escape persecution. While doing his military service, Mehdi was discovered having sex with another soldier. After being smuggled from Iran into Turkey by donkey, he eventually made his way to England, where his application for asylum as a sexual refugee from Iran's lethal anti-gay pogrom was denied, and is now facing deportation proceedings on March 28. If he is deported, Mehdi is under explicit threat of arrest and probable execution in Iran.

Within the last year, two gay Iranians in the U.K. have committed suicide as they faced deportation back to Iran, in fear of unspeakable torture and likely execution. And there are a number of other gay Iranians currently in the U.K. whose asylum appeals have been denied by the Blair government, and who are living in fear of receiving deportation orders any day.

Mehdi has told his story to the Persian Gay and Lesbian Organization (PGLO) -- the  largest Iranian gay group, which has secretariats in a number of countries, including Turkey. Mehdi's story is a heart-breaking one -- he relates the difficulties of growing up gay in Iran; his rejection by his family, which broke up his amorous relationship with a neighbor's son; his pursuit by government security agents; and his long and arduous journey to the West. Now, Mehdi says, "If I was to return to Iran, straight away they would arrest me, it is obvious that I would be executed because under Islamic law I have committed a sin...When [government security agents] came to my father's house [to look for me] they told him that is what I have done and that this would be my punishment." You can read Mehdi's first-hand story on the PGLO's website by clicking here.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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