Same with education... say BC offered a sweet deal where they intice youth to moving to the province for tutition "free" post-secondary, with the condition that they work in BC for the next 5-years as semi- ndentured educated slaves of the province? [This goes against the Can. charter of R&F... but whatever ]

My point is that the Federal system could allow for alot more competitive and creative public policy making, which would most likely benefit the richer provinces many times more than the so-called "have nots"... I'm not saying that this would be "good for Canada", but it could be a fasinating opportunity in public policy formation.

Currently, however, so much power (aka tax funds) is dedicated to our regionally 'egalitarian' federal system that such 'creativity' is frankly impossible, and definitely discouraged from the PMO on down.

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Mandos , I really wish you could spend some time in a left-wing milieu in Québec - whether among anti-globalisaiton types in Montréal or salt-of-the earth trade union organisers in the Saguenay - to experience first-hand the utter disconnect in terms of "provinces" - or as we would say - whether or not we favour of independence - "national rights". You would get some sense of the great disconnect between the attitudes of progressive Québécois and people in the RoC on such issues.

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I ask this question because of what I read. For instance, this article in Le Devoir:

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En laissant à Ottawa la responsabilité de définir, de financer et de gérer un système national d'assurance-médicaments, les provinces donnent au fédéral la clé des systèmes de santé au Canada. L'expérience de l'assurance-chômage montre bien que, dès qu'un gouvernement contrôle le financement d'un système, il en contrôle aussi les finalités.

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http://www.ledevoir.com/2004/08/02/60379.html?30

I find it difficult to be sympathetic to the complaint of the author, because he never identifies what is the practical, material poblem problem with this. (In the rest of the article, I am dubious about whether Québec was as isolated as he makes it out to be.) I have read other Michel Venne columns before, and all I see is, to be perfectly frank and honest, a steady, whiny drumbeat of this sort of thing, on everything from defusion to apple pie. I have recently taken to reading Québec francophone webboards on this to gain some sense of what is going on, and aside from noting that by no means all nationalists are that progressive in orientation*, I still have found no actual explanation for this except a sense of historical insult.

I didn't first start thinking of this in terms of Québec. This happened during the election. I first started think of this in terms of Western alienation, since I have some Western alien-ish friends. I first seriously argued these issues with them here:

http://www.pointsofinformation.ca/archives/monthly/2003/11.html

I don't think Venne is left-wing; he is a pretty standard-issue Québec nationalist, close to the PQ and the Bloc. But I don't think his standing up for what he sees as national rights is "whiny".

I mentioned progressives because babble is a progressive board and has little to no contact with people in left-wing social movements in Québec. Rabble is linked to Alternatives and we share editorial content, but there is no board similar to babble in French, in Québec.

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But I don't think his standing up for what he sees as national rights is "whiny".

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And, as you know, I am a little troubled by the notion of "national rights" per se. Alright, I can see the need for such a concept, at least, but I am...troubled.

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I mentioned progressives because babble is a progressive board and has little to no contact with people in left-wing social movements in Québec. Rabble is linked to Alternatives and we share editorial content, but there is no board similar to babble in French, in Québec.

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I'm not really interested in discussing provinces - sorry if I started a bit of thread drift, but I do think it would be wonderful if you could get some sense of how progressive people view things from here - not that it is any more monolithic than in the RoC, but it is very, very ifferent.

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Why wouldn't you expect a "race to the top", with Alberta (for example) bringing in some sort of Swedish style two-tier health system and conseqentially attracting more Docters and health care specialists to the riches of the oil patch???

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Take the issue of softwood lumber for instance, the BC Liberals in concert with the Federal Liberal government have completely bungled the file. With a somewhat decent recovery *meaning a little bit of a recovery from Bush's earlier depths of economic [mis]-management* going on in the United States one would think that even more of BC's wood products would be in demand for things such as housing starts, but with the tariff this is not the case. Now why is this important -- it's important because when we had a Social Credit and later an NDP government this issue was solved because those governments said to the federal government solve this issue our way or else! The BC Liberals on the other hand in an attempt to make it look like they have a good relationship with the federal government have completely kowtowed to the 'team Canada' approach. This has happened even though it's not in BC's best interests, and since BC makes up about 50% of the forestry industry in Canada one would think that they're interests should come before other provinces i.e.: Quebec, Ontario and the Maritimes. Yet with other provinces mainly Quebec/Ontario having more political clout in the federal government (slightly less in comparison to BC after the recent election) BC's interests are ignored. So the point is usually the same government that is in power federally has difficulty provincially -- or vice versa. And at times this is not necessarily a bad thing.

As for softwood lumber, I'm not sure if the federal government could have solved the issue even with an NDP or an SC goverment in BC. Perhaps. I'd need to study the issue more.

[ 03 August 2004: Message edited by: Mandos ]

David, I am most definitely NOT a nationalist for Québec or anywhere; I'm a fervent internationalist. And above all else, a socialist. But I believe in the right to national self-determination, whether for Québec or Aboriginal peoples. And whether it means independence, the status quo or soemthing else is not high on my list of social priorities. But beyond that - the misunderstanding - for most people in progressive social movements in Québec, our "nation" of reference is Québec. Our movements - labour confederations, FFQ, etc, are "national" in nature, that is, Québec based.

If you want to build bridges with progressive movements in Québec, y ou have to accept that. Probably the best thing to do is set common goals without squabbling abour the naitonal quesiton.

Sorry for any typos - I can't see well and am typing blind - dust in my eyes..

[ 03 August 2004: Message edited by: lagatta ]

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What do provinces really do in the delivery of services that the federal government can't in such a way that the federal goverment leave all decision-making power to them? Shouldn't we be worried about a race to the bottom? Shouldn't we be at least able to expect a certain minimum in services everywhere we go, and transferability of our benefits from province to province?

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A quick look at the federal government website will show that they deliver a wide array of services to Canadians (e.g. old age pensions, employment insurance, food and drug safety, passports, postal services, income tax collection, etc.,etc.,etc.). Even in areas of provincial jurisdiction, the feds can exert considerable influence through the use of their spending power (e.g. health care).

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Smaller and more local governments are always more accountable and more efficient. If I had my way we'd return to city states. Less waste, less war.

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Have large megacities, and rural counties. The federal government assumes control over education, health and welfare (there could be elected municipal school and health boards).

Face it, while turnouts in municipal elections are poor, municipal politicians tend to be tremendously popular often being reelected for years with huge majorities.

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Originally posted by BleedingHeart:
Why not phase provinces out completely.
.

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Yikes! So you would phase out the entire county/regional district system then?

I could see something like that arising from a much smaller geographic entity (like Italy used to be and arguably still is)... but Canada's absurdly huge distances are something else.

Victoria to Ottawa: 4677 km

I could see something like that arising from a much smaller geographic entity (like Italy used to be and arguably still is)... but Canada's absurdly huge distances are something else.

Victoria to Ottawa: 4677 km

Why bother with the concept of "Canada" if your going to smash the provincial building blocks? I could see having less provinces... but to get rid of them entirely is silly.

[ 07 August 2004: Message edited by: tomlovestrees ]

Interesting how in some cases the development of the EU has actually strengthened "regional" nationalisms in many countries, among the Basques, the Catalans, the Scots etc.

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Originally posted by tomlovestrees:
Victoria to Ottawa: 4677 km

[ 07 August 2004: Message edited by: tomlovestrees ]

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And it will still be 4677 no matter how many jurisdictions you have go through.

People seem to be sidestepping this by moving into discussions of why Federal involvement would be politically unworkable, which is a quite different issue.

Meanwhile, to the person who said city-states would involve less war--
The histories of classical Greece and Renaissance Italy would tend to suggest otherwise. Time was that in any given year there were at least three or four wars going on between Italian city-states, and that's just counting the relatively big players.

To the topic: Governments that are closer to the people tend to delivery the services better then governments at the upper levels (federal). If the federal government wants to collect my trash then be my guest, but I can guarantee that it will end up costing all of us more. If the federal government took over health care it would only take a few years before the costs soared out of control like the gun registry did. Do you want to see a mess, let see what the Liberals do with the daycare program, I have some faith that at least my province will be successful, I can only hope you have the same faith.

Paul Martin and the Liberals also should not make elections promises they have no jurisdiction in making or keeping – Does anyone actually believe that Paul can keep his healthcare promise, without the provinces help, he has no power over it. Call Harper down, at least he told the truth, like it or not, and for his so called hidden agenda, that’s just a Liberal smoke and mirrors tactic. The Liberals actually fired a bullet at my children in their living room and they actually have the gull to call Harper extreme.

Just keep voting in Liberal and NDP governments out east and Alberta will keep outpacing every other provinces GDP growth, at our current pace, we’ll soon be $10,000 per capita ahead of the rest of Canada. (Since 1998, Alberta's real gross domestic product per capita has averaged 11% higher than second place Ontario.) Canada just can’t keep up with what we can pay our doctors, nurses, teachers, etc. It’s not greed – it’s just economics 101, the higher taxes go the more you lose, soon Calgary is going to replace Toronto as the headquarter capital of Canada – the more headquarters, the more jobs, the more diversified our economy gets, the less oil we need. Keep voting in the Liberals and NDP folks!!!!

Regards,
Jack
ProjectAlberta.com

[ 10 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

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The reason why most prefer to have their provincial government have more autonomy and the federal less power in the provincial jurisdiction, is that (at least in Québec) the provincial government is thought to be the one that truly represents them, while the federal is... well, federal (as in association of many States). While municipal politics are often considered petty politics (and often corruption-riddled).

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Originally posted by Mandos:
Is the corruption and pettiness perceived in municipal politics simply due to the fact that cities do not have sufficient powers? An analogous question.

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Originally posted by JackIsBack:
Why does everyone think that Alberta is only strong because of our oil?

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"Strong" is a sweeping term. Doubtless Alberta's citizenry have strength independent of oil; strong grassroots communities and traditions of hard work and so forth. This is true of most regions of Canada.

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My question is whether or not this perception is objectively correct: is the official federal/provincial balance of powers the best way to deliver the services that the state is supposed to deliver?

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I'd say "leave it to provinces", because every province has its own characteristics that it must take into consideration. That is why the federal government is unqualified, since it is so big that it would have difficulties answering to regional needs adequately except if it set regional administrative centers, in which case, why not simply give it to provinces? But some centralization is better to insure equal and more efficient services. This is why I don't think municipal services are qualified to administer most services.

What's more is that there is a relatively widespread perception that (correctly IMO) assumes that the federal government is pretty much "that goddam greedy thing that gets 50% of my money and only sends some of it back after a LOT of whining", at least in Québec. Meaning that it doesn't represent us well and is woefully inefficient. That it is disconnected from us, so I wouldn't ever consider giving it more power than it already has.

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Is the corruption and pettiness perceived in municipal politics simply due to the fact that cities do not have sufficient powers?

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:
I don't know

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Really - I could not of guessed as much. You really are unware so why would you talk like you know so much. Face the facts - Alberta is the greatest province in Canada and ranks #1 (or near the top) in almost every social and economical category that measures greatness.

Here are just a few:
#1 - REAL GDP PER CAPITA
#1 - INVESTMENT PER CAPITA (over double 2nd place)
#1 - LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE (tied with MB)
#1 - PERSONAL INCOME
#1 - PERSONAL DISPOSABLE INCOME
#1 - RETAIL SALES PER CAPITA
#1 - BUSINESS GROWTH (almost 5x 2nd place MB, 8x ON)
#2 - CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS (so close to ON)
#1 - POPULATION GROWTH
#1 - NET INTERPROVINCIAL MIGRATION
#1 - PERFORMANCE OF STUDENTS AGED 15
#1 - Out of 32 countries and the provinces of Canada, Alberta scored the highest in reading.
#1 - Alberta has the best educated workforce in Canada.
#1 - PARTICIPATION RATE (EMPLOYED PEOPLE OVER 15)
#1 - SHARE OF POPULATION UNDER 40
#1 - EMPLOYMENT TO POPULATION RATIO
#1 - LABOUR PRODUCTIVITY
#2 - LABOUR RECORD (2nd to PEI)
#1 - LOWEST TOTAL PROVINCIAL AND MUNICIPAL TAX LOAD
#1 - LOWEST RETAIL SALES TAX RATES
#2 - LOWEST PROVINCIAL CORPORATE INCOME TAX RATES (2nd to QC)
#2 - LOWEST PROVINCIAL SMALL BUSINESS CORPORATE INCOME TAX RATES (2nd to NB)
#1 - LOWEST GASOLINE TAX RATES
#2 - LOWEST WORKERS' COMPENSATION PREMIUMS (2nd to MB)
#2 - INVESTMENT CLIMATE SCALE (2nd to ON)
#1 - EXPENDITURE ON RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
#1 - SUPPORT FOR PERFORMING ARTS
#2 - PROVINCIAL HEALTH EXPENDITURE (2nd to NL)
#1 - PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL EDUCATION EXPENDITURE
#1 - GOVERNMENT NET FINANCIAL ASSETS (only one in the black)
#1 - GOVERNMENT SURPLUSES
#1 - CREDIT RATING (AAA - 2 levels above ON, BC, and MB; 3 above SK; 4 above NB and QC; 5 above PEI; 6 above NS and NL which are only two away from "JUNK" status)
#1 - LOWEST BORROWING COSTS
#1 - BUDGET PERFORMANCE INDEX
#1 - ECONOMIC FREEDOM INDEX

Just look at the credit rating - we mean something to the rest of the world!!!

Regards,
Jack
The source documents can be found here

[ 10 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

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Originally posted by JackIsBack:
- Alberta is the greatest province in Canada and ranks #1 (or near the top) in almost every social and economical category that measures greatness.

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That's because we all worked hard putting that oil into the ground.

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Originally posted by BleedingHeart:
That's because we all worked hard putting that oil into the ground.

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Albertans work hard!!!! I notice you’re so ashamed of your province you hide it. Who put the fish in sea, trees in the forest, and minerals in the earth? Every province relies on it’s natural resources. You’re such a hypocrite and a jealous one at that.

Alberta is #1, if you don't like it, MOVE!

Regards,
Jack

[ 10 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

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Originally posted by JackIsBack:
What this video

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Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
Good question.

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Sorry - spell check error, I was more worried about getting that long movie link correct.

When Canadians are asked if they want a program in which the government will pay for, the majority say “YES”, when those same people are asked it they want a program in which the taxpayers will pay for, the majority say “NO”.

Does this make any sense to you? It probably does because you people fail to realize that we are taxed way too far and that these taxes are bring down this country. The government isn’t easy money – we are the government, were the ones that end up paying for every program. The Liberals show a credit card and pretend that you’ll have to pay for healthcare under Harper and the Conservatives, here’s a BIG shocker – YOU DO PAY, or at least I do.

“Their fantasy is that ‘despite minor problems, Canada still has the best medical system in the world.’ In reality, Canada has a second-rate health-care system that is deteriorating before our eyes. When you have to wait a year or more to see specialists or receive major surgery, when you force people to spend their life's savings going all the way to India for urgently needed treatment, it's time to end the delusion this is a caring and competent country. Increasingly, we are a dogmatic, complacent, impractical little country that is well along the road to stagnation and irrelevance.”

“Stagnation and irrelevance are what befall countries which refuse to deal with reality. Eastern Europe, the Middle East and South America are full of them. In the 1980s and 1990s, the whole world, from New Zealand to Britain to China, woke up and realized something important -- state monopolies don't work. They are too rigid, insulated, and top-heavy to deliver goods and services efficiently. This is not a statement of ideology. It's a statement of fact. Competitive free markets deliver more goods at less cost. When customers have a wide choice of providers, providers must compete to do a better job. “

”Just imagine if groceries were available to us only from a government monopoly -- CanFood -- and all at no charge to consumers. Taxes would soar even as people fainted in the ration lineups. Which is exactly what we see happening in health care. Well, Canadians didn't learn this simple, basic lesson about government monopolies when Russia, China and everyone else did. Medicare is too important, we decided. It's a national priority.” (by LINK BYFIELD)

I think the people on this forum need to wake up and stop dreaming, Canada is quickly becoming a “have not” country in the world. We’re made up of 8 “have not” provinces with Ontario well below the U.S. average; Alberta is the only province on par with our neighbors. If you don’t think separation is a real threat in Alberta now, what do you think will happen when Alberta is 150% ahead of Canada, then 200%, then 250%, as Alberta starts thriving you can’t keep taking more and more because we may just need to have a tea party of our own. With the disparity growing between Alberta and the rest of Canada, something has to give if history is any predictor – just try living with someone out of your league. Canada is being passed; we no longer hold a membership in the G7, so the world renames it the G8, now we find ourselves overtaken in the G8.

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Jealous... you guys can't compromise

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They all hate us 'cause we're beautiful.

Most of the countries that dabbled with the neo-liberal agenda in the 90's ended up regretting it and hastily reversing course. The ones that were not allowed to control their own destinies had to endure economic collapse as the IMF rammed your economic views down their throats.

Has it occured to you that every single item on your big list relates directly to money? The kind of money that you pull out of the ground in crude form? Of course you claim that the money doesn't come from the oil, but as a result of this:

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we’re attracting new business and investment income to Alberta because we are making an environment that ensures those businesses are extremely successful.

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Yeah, and what is that environment? One that is full of well-heeled consumers who get paid on the oilpatch. The business that flocks to Alberta is retailers selling stuff to the middle class. I mean, really, you say it yourself:

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The facts are that oil accounted for over 36% of our economy in 1985 down to just 22% in 2002,

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22% of the economy. Do you think there is any other industry in any other province that carries it so completely? Maybe potatoes in PEI or something, but clearly no other province has a money maker like that and it has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do with the politics.

You think the Alberta economy is flexible? Without the oil money, they would be billions in deficit. If that went away, you would have all the flexibility of a pretzel stick. Your low taxes draw in people setting up offices and things, but no real industry. As Rufus pointed out, you have practically no manufacturing. As a province, you are characterised by a little beef, which doesn't make anyone rich, and a lot of oil, which makes millionaires wherever it appears. Trying to deny this obvious equation just makes you look foolish.

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Originally posted by JackIsBack:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:

Good question.

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Sorry - spell check error, I was more worried about getting that long movie link correct.

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It was still a good question.

[ 11 August 2004: Message edited by: Scott Piatkowski ]

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Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
Has it occured to you that every single item on your big list relates directly to money?

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Can you read - what about education? Like it or not, we live in a time and place that requires money to do almost everything. I guess you can say the more education one gets the more money they can make.

Alberta is the greatest province; Ontario is just playing second fiddle. Over 30,000 people moving here per year can't all be wrong. As we grow, our economy is becoming more then just oil, we're diversifying - it's a wonderful economical concept out of your league. You probably still believe that when you get a loan from a bank (in Canada) that the bank actually has that much money (and maybe more) in other people’s savings – again Economics 101, it doesn’t work that way.

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Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
22% of the economy. Do you think there is any other industry in any other province that carries it so completely?

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Yep!!!

Looks like you're eating crow - you know nothing.

Ontario – Manufacturing is at 21.12% and Finance, Insurance and Real Estate is at (get this) 21.95% (source)

Almost every provinces has one area that spikes up and almost every provinces has the "Finance, Insurance and Real Estate" industry well above 15%.

Our healthcare and social programs are stretched to the limits and our population is full of redneck roughneck uneducated farm hicks who are very extreme in their political views. I was thinking about going east anyhow and was just on here trying to drum up Calgary so I could finally sell my home and hopefully muster up enough cash to pay for the trip.

The political landscape here is so scary I have to watch what I say – if Harper or Ralph ever found out what I’m telling you (shhhhh!!!) I could lose my freedom and be sent to Syria, or even worse, to an Alberta boot camp. I think the fact that I’ve posted so much “GOOD” Alberta propaganda will protect me since I don’t think those two (or Jason Kenney for that fact) can read all that quickly.

The environment in Calgary is horrendous; the smoke stacks are constantly billowing out thick black smoke from our many inner city coal burning power plants. The rivers and streams are polluted with remnants of our old and shut in oil production facilities and the salt from the new coal bed methane producing gas wells are coating our many once prosperous prairie farmland. The traffic is slow and the mountains and our over developed natural parks are only a shell of their once pure natural greatness.

The homeless are scattered through out the streets all day and night during both summer and winter. On many occasions during the winter months I have tripped over frozen, snow covered bodies laying on one of the few recreational paths we still have left. The crime rate is through the roof, and our C-train and transit system is infested with it.

So I’m truly sorry and please remember if you’re thinking about coming out west looking for a better opportunity for you and your family – please take the above warning seriously – there is no better life to be found.

Sorry for all the lies I told in my previous postings – they were all full of propaganda and I do apologize for any problems they did cause.

Thanks,
Jack
(Please visit the NDP website for more information)

[ 11 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

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I'm ashamed to call Calgary my home.

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Well, you should be.

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The homeless are scattered through out the streets all day and night during both summer and winter.

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Originally posted by Jingles:
In your fantasy, in the bestest city in the bestest province in the whole wide world (alberta), there is no such thing as homeless, as every albertan is filty rich.

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Yes I know - I woke up!!! All that best/greatest stuff was just part of the propaganda and brainwashing the PC party of Alberta requires all citizens to go through before even driving through this province – don’t stop for it, just drive straight through to B.C.

It’s a trap I tell you – a dirty trap. I think I may have found a way out that has escaped me previously – if you’re poor enough sometimes they’ll buy you a bus ticket out to B.C., but I’m not sure exactly what it will take (since I’m poor now) – I think if I can drain what little money is left in the healthcare system by, let say, breaking my leg – it would be cheaper for them to ship me out west to B.C. then house me in prison with a broken leg – I’m working on it.

I have to go now; someone else needs this only library computer terminal. A city this big and we only have one or two lousy 286 computers - SORRY.

Bye,
Jack

[ 11 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

quote:

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quote:
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Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
Has it occured to you that every single item on your big list relates directly to money?
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Can you read - what about education?

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Yeah, I thought about commenting on the two items out of your list of thirty-five that related to something other than fiscal matters, but I figured you'd know instinctively that

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Like it or not, we live in a time and place that requires money to do almost everything

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Funny thing is, you do seem to know that, and are still unable to make the connection that the high literacy rates are a direct result of the black gold you pull out of the ground. Unless you can prove to me that Alberta spends less money per capita than the rest of the country while still getting better results, then you are proving my points, not your own.

And speaking of making my points for me:

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Ontario – Manufacturing is at 21.12% and Finance, Insurance and Real Estate is at (get this) 21.95% (source)

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As we can see, only Ontario has cash cows like Alberta, which is why it's the richest province. Alberta has its oil, which is why it's the second richest. If any other province had these things they would be as rich, but they don't and they can't get them. Ontario has been the manufacturing, political, and financial centre of the country from the beginning and you can't just change a social structure like that with a little elbow grease or ingenuity, now can you? If you could, wouldn't it be Alberta doing these things? As for oil, you can't make it appear if it isn't there.

But my real point in saying that only Alberta is carried so completely by one industry still stands. To say that all manufacturing, or even better, finance, insurance, and real estate, is a single industry in the way the oil industry is, is ridiculous (see me ridiculing you?). If you said manufacturing one particular item was 22%, then it would make sense, because a drop of the price of that one item would cause great economic havok in Ontario, much as a sharp drop in the price of oil would cause a desperate collapse of Alberta's economy. But it isn't like that, because Ontario manufactures a wide variety of items. Again, it's about flexibility, which Ontario has, and Alberta doesn't.

Like I said in subsequent posts - I was greatly misguided in my beliefs. The social programs in Alberta (if you can call them that) are grossly inadequate and these people don’t care about anything but the almighty buck. I would defiantly stay away from this province, Klein, and his goons.

Since this forum is called “Provinces” we should all try and rate them. We can put Alberta at number 10 because no one really wants to live here.

I talked to several people from work, two from Ontario, and two from the Atlantic Provinces, and they told me to change it - and change it fast. They guided me in my ways and basically convinced me of the gross error I was making by talking up Alberta on this site (Rabble) which to my surprise they both knew about.

What I'm worried about is that the Alberta economy is only driven by oil (basically 100% - I forgot all those side effects) and if oil hits the bottom, so will Alberta’s economy and my family will suffer greatly. The ranching industry is already suffering from BSE and Alberta is barely coping with that, the drought has affected our farmers and the earth can no longer support substantial growth to make a saleable crop. Alberta is defiantly heading into the realm of “have not” status and with our social programs being so inadequate there is no real safety net to catch anyone – we’re in grave need for help.

Calgary is the most boring city in Canada. Our downtown core is a ghost town at night and the trash and dust just blow 24/7. When the “Alberta clippers” come through in winter they wreak havoc on traffic and the city, basically shuts down for weeks on end, by the time they get to Ontario they are considerably weaker. The Stampede is just a huge joke – it’s nothing more then a redneck gathering and those street breakfasts are the only food the homeless get all year, I mean you should see the lineups of people begging for some free food, they can be several blocks long.

Edmonton just sucks. The capital city is so bad that most people from Edmonton say they’re from St. Albert and/or Sherwood Park – two communities in the Greater Edmonton area. There’s always huge protest at the capital building that always seem to shut rush hour traffic down. The West Edmonton Mall is a complete joke of a mall, it’s basically 4 malls in one and that’s it – just repeat the same boring stores four times in any “regular” mall.

Alberta in general is dirty, the pollution is just unreal. It takes hours to travel from one small town to the next and there is nothing – no services to speak of in-between, and every small hickville town is dirty and basically you can’t tell them apart from the next. Kananaskis country is so remote – with no roads, and treeless from the over forestation in recent years and was the perfect remote setting for the G8 summit – who would want to go there.

Bottom line: Alberta sucks – take my warnings seriously and stay away.

Regards,
Jack

[ 11 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

The whole "politics" group of forums are slow right now - not much chatter.

Thanks,
Jack

[ 11 August 2004: Message edited by: JackIsBack ]

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Originally posted by JackIsBack:
Calgary is the most boring city in Canada.

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That's the truest thing JackIsBack has said.

The city is soul-dead. Take away a Calgarian's SUV and he'll be left with an existential crisis.

JIB's tone and attitude is bloated, self-important, arrogant, materialistic, and takes too much room at the cost of common space, just like an oversize private vehicle.

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Originally posted by mimsy:

JIB's tone and attitude is bloated, self-important, arrogant, materialistic, and takes too much room at the cost of common space, just like an oversize private vehicle.

Thanks, JackIsBack, for reinforcing the butthead stereotype of Albertans.

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I almost think he's doing it as a farce... I know several quite self-contented Albertans but JIB takes the cake...

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...any soul the core has is just sucked dry by the suburban hinterland

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Unfortunately thats the cost of a booming economy and record migration to Alberta, Those people all want housing and the construction companies are going crazy trying to keep up.

[ 16 August 2004: Message edited by: Evil i ]

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Originally posted by Mandos:
There are better ways to manage that kind of growth than to commit to sprawly sprawly suburban wastelands.

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Absolutely... but it's tempting not to care when times are a 'boomin... it's a recipe seen clear across Western North American.... Phoneix, Tusan, Denver.... they all set the template that places like Cow-town have emulated (that said, Calgary is WAY nicer than Phoenix!!)

Some those ridiculously huge subdivisons look like alien landing patterns.... creeeeeeeeeeeeepy human habitat.

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.....Absolutely... but it's tempting not to care when times are a 'boomin... it's a recipe seen clear across Western North American....

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I don't think it's a matter of not caring.