[It turned out that there was a thread on the heat deaths in France. As well, it turns out that the USA has had many heat deaths during the same period. .... anyhooo .....]

Fires in France

I'm prepared to bet that the earlier apartment building fires, which took the lives of may immigrants who were housed in these substandard dwellings were considered less important human beings than long-time French citizens.

There is a great deal of racism there (same as here obviously). They have enormous Arab ghettos that are turning into poweder-kegs thanks to unemployment and neglect.

Look around babble for my own criticisms of my own government(s), other provincial governments, and Canadian society in general.

I'm as yet unable to dig up any dirt on the Andorrans, but rest assured, if anyone's being oppressed there, I probably disapprove.

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Originally posted by thwap:
Look around babble for my own criticisms of my own government(s), other provincial governments, and Canadian society in general.

I'm as yet unable to dig up any dirt on the Andorrans, but rest assured, if anyone's being oppressed there, I probably disapprove.

Now, if one has donated to the New Orleans relief, criticized the French government, does one then get permission to slam bush II, or are we still open to paroxysms of incoherent bushlovers' rage?

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Now, if one has donated to the New Orleans relief, criticized the French government, does one then get permission to slam bush II, or are we still open to paroxysms of incoherent bushlovers' rage?

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Sorry, thwap, but you have to say something categorical about each of the Central Asian republics first as well, although be careful: the Bush administration position on any of those countries changes hourly, and you won't want to be caught with your pants down, as it were.

I know how you feel, thwap. That's one of the most transparent trollish routines. It happens a lot in the ME forum too.

However, since you mention France, and since I almost always say nice things about France, I will step up and do a brief ritual denunciation of a couple of things French, just to maintain balance on babble.

The French are no more over their colonial past than are any other European colonizers, and I include white North Americans in that group. Some racism in France is overt; more is of the thoughtless kind that tells you it hasn't even occurred to many people yet that something bad went on and continues. Much as here.

There are differences from Canada, though. Immigrants to Canada aren't coming from former Canadian colonies, as they are in Britain or France. They don't have that tight identification with the "mother country" -- the linguistic and cultural identification -- that many blacks and North Africans had when they first went to France or Britain, an identification that turned into a HUGE disappointment for them when they realized how the French (like the British) really thought of them -- ie, not as equal citizens at all. So I think there is often a special tension in the European ghettos that is something like thwarted love, y'know?

(Our relationships with the First Nations are worse, but different again.)

So yes, those fires have something to do with racism in France. The slum conditions that many immigrant communities live in have a lot to do with racism in France. And France, like all the European countries, is still fairly class-ridden on the surface, which has something to do with aged people left on their own to die in a heat wave.

Ordinary discourse in North America is not as irritatingly class-ridden as same can be anywhere in Europe. That doesn't mean that we have no class divisions here, just that North American popular culture is more sentimental and thus better at covering these things up.

There. I said some bad things about France and Europe.

The most recent time was six months ago, from something said to me by an RCMP constable.

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posted by al-Qa'bong: The first time I ever experienced racism directed against my ethnicity, by some grafitti I saw in France, was 16 years ago...

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BTW, Monsier al-Qa'bong, does your name have any connection with the Quick Draw McGraw character of the 1960's? If so, isn't appropriating that handle somewhat ... equinist?

[ 04 September 2005: Message edited by: deBeauxOs ]

Me, they can tell: Alberta, green as grass, isn't she droll (drole)? Almost ... exotique! So they are very nice to me and pat me on the head and shoulders and elsewhere and tell me There, there, you can stay here as long as you like, here's a tissue, and here's a glass of wine to drown your sorrows.

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Well, but, Hinterland, you are fluent and sophisticated in that ineffably French sort of way...

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You got that right...'sti.

I first went to France with a girl-friend from high school...we had a riot acting as colon as we could whenever we were faced with class snobbery.

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posted by Hinterland:...The thing that saves the French though, is that they've generally got a pretty good sense of humour ...

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Stockwell's doctor: Well, Mr Day, I have some good news and some bad news. First the good news: when we operated to remove your humourus, we discovered that it had already atrophied.

Stockwell Day: And the bad news ...?

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Or, that horribly racist comment the French always direct at me, personally...Oh, le Canada...il fait froid là, non?.

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If I had a sou for every time I've heard that one...

I don't know if that's racism or just plain lack of interest in quelques arpents de neige.

The French aren't much interested in political correctness either. Try a google image search of banania.

[ 04 September 2005: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]

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I don't know if that's racism or just plain lack of interest in quelques arpents de neige.

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Oh, it's racism, no doubt about it.

I remember sharing a compartment on a train between Nice and Genoa, with a family of Franco-Italians and a really nice woman from Aix-en-Provence. We were all eating the veal-and-pepper sandwiches the Italian grandmother had made. One of the guys made that "Canada=cold" comment to me, and I guessed I rolled my eyes a bit too much, because the woman from Aix said "j'imagine que c'est la millième fois qu'on vous a fait cette remarque..." We all laughed. Then, we broke open the litres of wine and all got drunk.

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Originally posted by Carter:
... it's quite possible that even after all of that, the Bush-lovers and Castro-lovers will still accuse you of "selective outrage."

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And in the same sentence, too.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
It's still true: even when they have right-wing governments, they plough much more money into public works and support systems and pride than North Americans do, and it shows.

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