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Author Topic: Pakistan constitution suspended, Supreme Court detained
Doug
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posted 03 November 2007 07:22 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Pakistan's constitution was suspended on Saturday as President Pervez Musharraf invoked emergency powers, state run Pakistan Television reported.

Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry and eight other judges refused to endorse the provisional constitutional order issued by the president, and Justice Chaudhry has been told his "services are no longer required", private news channels said....he government blocked transmissions of private news channels in several cities and telephone services in the capital, Islamabad, were cut.

Witnesses said paramilitary troops were deployed at state-run Pakistan Television and radio stations ahead of the announcement, which follows weeks of speculation that U.S. ally Gen. Musharraf might impose emergency rule or martial law.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071103.wpakistan emerg1103/BNStory/International/home

[ 03 November 2007: Message edited by: Doug ]


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 03 November 2007 10:53 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The emergency declaration was in direct defiance of repeated calls this week from senior American officials, including Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, not to do so. A day earlier, the senior American military commander in the Middle East, Admiral William J. Fallon, told General Musharraf and his top generals in a meeting here that declaring emergency rule would jeopardize the extensive American financial support for the Pakistani military.

Ms. Rice personally intervened twice in the past four months to try to keep General Musharraf from imposing emergency rule, telephoning him at 2 a.m. Pakistani time in August. On Saturday, while traveling to Turkey for an Iraq security conference, she reinforced that message, saying, “I think it would be quite obvious that the United States wouldn’t be supportive of extra-constitutional means."



Has Musharraf flown the US coop?

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
RevolutionPlease
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posted 03 November 2007 11:39 AM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rice is not outraged!

I can't believe the US has not come out explicitly damning this event.


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
contrarianna
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posted 03 November 2007 12:58 PM      Profile for contrarianna     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionPlease:
Rice is not outraged!

I can't believe the US has not come out explicitly damning this event.


Why would this be a shock?
a)When has the US taken an aggressive pro-democracy stance when it isn't in its strategic interests? (the present US government is also in the active process of gutting it's own constitution and devolivng into a "unitary" presidency).
b) How does it serve US interests to weaken further the struggling Musharraf regeme, when what may replace him could well be less favorable to the US (and have control of Pakistan's nuke arsenal).militants seize police stations

[ 03 November 2007: Message edited by: contrarianna ]


From: here to inanity | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 03 November 2007 07:23 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to the story linked above, Rice said the move was "highly regrettable". This diplomatic-speak for "OMG!!! "

The US plan, as poorly thought out and executed as it was, Musharaff was to share power with Bhutto if at all. The Pakistan supreme court was about to rule on the legality of continuing his position in power. The supreme court had been exercising its independence as of late.

Musharaff has just demonstrated he neither intends to be forced aside nor to share power. He is thumbing his nose at US intentions.

This might be interesting.


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 03 November 2007 10:05 PM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If things were going as well in neighboring Afghanistan as our political leaders say, would we be seeing this level of political instability in Pakistan?
From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 November 2007 10:08 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sgm:
If things were going as well in neighboring Afghanistan as our political leaders say, would we be seeing this level of political instability in Pakistan?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 03 November 2007 10:35 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"I hereby order and proclaim that the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan shall remain in abeyance." In plain language that's a coup, folks.

Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry and eight other judges refused to endorse the emergency order, declaring it unconstitutional, resulting in Mr Chaudhry's dismissal.

This whole event is an astonishing gamble. He tried this same move before, and failed. So this time he has to act far more sternly: it's "dictatorship or die" time.

General Musharraf suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry in March. The Supreme court restored him.

quote:
He was supported by Pakistan's lawyers and opposition political parties.

The subsequent storm of protests proved to be the sternest test General Musharraf had faced thus far.

Mr Chaudhry's restoration to full authority at the head of a judiciary openly hostile to General Musharraf led him to consider the option of emergency in early August.

But the general pulled back from the brink.



The "growing insurgency in the Swat valley" has nothing to do with suspending the Supreme Court. Claiming some members of the judiciary are working at cross purposes with the executive and legislature in the fight against terrorism and extremism is absurd and will fool no one. The court was to decide whether Gen Musharraf was eligible to run for re-election last month while remaining army chief. He expected the Supreme Court ruling to go against him. End of story.

So now:

quote:
Within hours of the announcement that emergency had been enforced, members of the supreme court were detained and a new chief justice appointed.

Any criticism of the head of state, members of the armed services and any other senior member of government is banned.

Anyone breaking these rules faces a three-year jail term and a 10 million rupee ($167,000) fine.

General Musharraf talked of the need to bring the country back from the brink of disaster.

But he did not specify when elections, the generally agreed formula to take the country forward, would be held.

This could be the turning point for the general as he descends further into his labyrinth.

It may also force his PPP allies to reconsider their positions.

If that happens, Pervez Musharraf's opponents could well end up having the last laugh.



Early on Sunday the acting head of the party of the exiled former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif was arrested.

"Musharraf's days are numbered. Time has come to end the political role of the army," said Javed Hashmi of the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz), before he was taken away by police in the central city of Multan.

Elections in January? I doubt Benazir Bhutto believes it. She immediately flew back to Karachi where she condemned Gen Musharraf's decision, saying emergency rule had been imposed so elections could be avoided.

"We the political parties are calling for the restoration of the constitution, and for the holding of the elections under an independent election commission," she told the BBC.

She said the international community should use its influence with Gen Musharraf to "press him on the restoration of the constitution, the reinstatement of the judges and the release of the political prisoners".


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 04 November 2007 03:25 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Musharaf is nothing more than a tinhorn dictator. In declaring martial law, to keep himself in power, he has sealed his own fate. And U.S. policy has to go back to the drawing board.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 November 2007 03:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I find it so hard to get a grasp on the politics of Pakistan. Anyone have any good "primers" I can read to get up to speed?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 04 November 2007 03:47 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know of any in particular, but all you really need to know is that when in trouble, leaders tend to suspend democracy and force their main opponent into exile or worse.

http://tinyurl.com/yuzdrg


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remind
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posted 04 November 2007 07:13 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where are Harper's comments on this obvious move to impliment a dictatorship???
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 04 November 2007 07:46 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I find it so hard to get a grasp on the politics of Pakistan. Anyone have any good "primers" I can read to get up to speed?

As always, start with the basic facts from the IPU:
quote:
On 10 October 2002, contesting the 342 seats in the National Assembly were a total of 1,371 candidates on party lists and some 700 independent candidates.

The elections were held against the background of a constitutional referendum in April 2002 and the legislation banning former Prime Ministers Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto as well as many of their party candidates from running in the elections. The constitutional referendum had given General Musharraf five more years in power as well as effective control over the new government.

The President had imposed very severe restrictions on political rallies during the electoral campaign. Violence was high during the campaign with at least seven people killed and 50 injured in election-related acts of violence in different areas of the country.

Officials said that turnout at the polling stations, though slow, was an improvement over the 1997 general elections where only some 26 per cent of the registered voters effectively voted. For the 2002 elections, some 41 per cent of the nearly 72 million eligible voters turned out.

The report of the European Union observers described the elections as "seriously flawed", mainly because of the misuse of State resources to fund some parties and also because of the amendments to the Constitution introduced by decree by General Musharraf in August 2002, giving him new and broader powers. Observers from the Commonwealth ruled that the actual vote was credible and democratic, but had misgivings about curbs on parties during the campaign. The national independent Pakistan Human Rights Commission also denounced some "electoral malpractice" and accused the government of manipulating the electoral process.

The Pakistan Muslim League-Qaid-i-Azam (PML/Q), a faction of the former Pakistan Muslim League (PML) which supported General Musharraf's government, obtained the largest share of seats, 77, but fell short of a majority. The Pakistan People's Party Parliamentarians (PPP-P) which was deprived of the leadership of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, who is in exile, came second with 63 seats. Third place went to the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA - United Council for Action), an alliance of six Islamist parties, which won 45 seats. Another faction of the PML, the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz), which is loyal to the also exiled former Prime Minister Sharif, took 14 seats. The Mohajir Quami Movement (MQM), based on the Urdu-speaking descendants of the millions of exiles from India who came to Sindh province in 1949, took 13. The National Democratic Alliance (NA) took 13. Assorted others took 15.



That makes 269 (but it should be 272 -- vacancies?)

The parties then appoint 60 women and 10 from non-Muslim minorities in proportion to the seats they won. The MMA hated this. They appointed their share -- 10 women -- but they appear in the House fully veiled, and seldom if ever speak. (The PPP complained against the full veils, saying that members of the House were obliged to identify themselves, but the full veils would allow anyone to pass themselves off as a member of the House. I never heard the outcome. And we think we have problems with veils.)

So Musharraf has been running fragile alliances to get bills through parliament. At first he managed to get the MMA onside, since they hate Benazir Bhutto more than they hate him. The MMA runs the provincial government of the North West Frontier Province based in Peshawar, since they won a clear majority in its provincial Assembly. Musharraf's party runs the other three provincial governments.

Bhutto's PPP party creed is: "Islam is our faith; democracy is our politics; socialism is our economy; all power to the people." The PPP is Pakistan's member of the Socialist International. It's not perfect, neither is she, but it's the best on offer.

When the parliament first met in 2002 Musharraf's man Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali was elected as Prime Minister after the last-minute decision by the MQM parliamentary group to support it from outside. Mr Jamali won with a one-vote majority by securing 172 votes with the help of the MQM and 10 defectors from the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), headed by former premier Benazir Bhutto. His majority promptly disappeared.

quote:

The Jamali government in Pakistan was reduced to a minority following the withdrawal of support by the 17-member MQM, the ruling pro-Musharraf party, the PML (Q) today held talks with the hardline Islamist alliance, the MMA, in order to garner a majority.

As fresh differences arose between the PML (Q) and the MQM over the chief ministership of the southern Sindh province, senior PML (Q) leader and General Musharraf’s confidant Sujat Hussain decided to hold talks with the six-party alliance, the MMA, to work out a deal to get its support for the Jamali government.

Mr Hussain meet MMA leader Mualana Fazlur Rehman last night to begin fresh talks to thrash our differences on the continuation of General Musharraf as President as well as repeal of controversial constitutional amendments.

The fresh crisis for the Jamali ministry was sparked off as the MQM, which has its powerbase in Karachi, was peeved over the reluctance of the PML (Q) and its allies to accede to its demand for chief ministership of the Sindh province, which was reportedly agreed as a quid pro quo deal after which the MQM voted for Mr Jamali on November 21 in the National Assembly.

In view of the MQM’s decision, General Musharraf yesterday postponed the session of the Sindh Assembly, which was scheduled to meet today.

The PML (Q) and the MMA have decided to resume talks as Ms Benazir Bhutto has made it clear that her party would not in any eventuality tie up with the MMA to form government at the Centre and in the province as it comprised fundamentalist parties whose policies, she said, would endanger Pakistan and Muslims in general.



Does that give you the flavour?

A current view from India:

quote:
In the initial phase, PML-Q’s had a working relationship with MMA with its leaders agreeing to support the ruling coalition. The religious alliance even became part of the PML-Q coalition in Balochistan. But the honeymoon ended soon enough with the religious alliance divided vertically on its support to Musharraf. Qazi Hussain Ahmed was skeptical of the military regime and called for conditional support while his party colleague, Maulana Fazlur Rehman was keen to ally with the military and PML-Q.

The PML-Q’s relations with the Mohajir Quami Party (MQM) have been on an even keel as both profess to be staunch supporters of Musharraf. But serious differences erupted out early May this year. . .



The Economist's profile adds little.
This site seems remarkably objective although it's based in Pakistan.

[ 04 November 2007: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 04 November 2007 07:48 AM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
Where are Harper's comments on this obvious move to impliment a dictatorship???

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=5a8fd660-42ba-4723-a7a5-5c556174e840&k=16557


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 04 November 2007 07:50 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Restoring TAT format.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Free_Radical
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posted 04 November 2007 07:54 AM      Profile for Free_Radical     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sgm:
If things were going as well in neighboring Afghanistan as our political leaders say, would we be seeing this level of political instability in Pakistan?

Afghanistan has long been a sort of release valve for Pakistan's radicals and militants - typically with the full connivance of the Pakistani government.

So yes, it would be possible to make the argument that progress in Afghanistan could mean more instability in Pakistan as militants are left to stir up trouble at home, having lost the option of doing so next-door.


From: In between . . . | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 04 November 2007 09:23 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The press may well be the saviours of Pakistani democracy.

I just heard on BBC World News that they expect today's screaming headlines in the Pakistani Press to continue tomorrow morning.

Those headlines were a deliberate flouting of Musharraf's decree. They are more than just "testing" the limits; they are saying "we don't believe you can make this stick. We laugh at your decree."

Today he arrested 500 political and legal leaders. But Pakistan is a complex country of 168 million people. Sure, almost 4 million live in the Tribal Areas, another 22 million in the MMA-ruled NWFP, and another 8 million in tribal Baluchistan. But that leaves about 130 million in Punjab and Sindh, modern free literate civil societies. One-man rule in such a society is simply not workable.

As the press is, I hope, about to demonstrate. We should all be cheering and asking Canada's government to support freedom of the press. Well, asking Canada's press to support it, anyway.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 04 November 2007 11:14 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is too funny heywood, Harper makes no comments, you provide Mackay's words being spoken in the royal we.
quote:
We're very concerned in regards to the stability and in regard to the impact it will have on regional security here.

"We certainly condemn the move away from the democratic principles, respect for rule of law. We condemn anything that would undermine the progress that we hoped we would see towards free and fair elections. And as a country that espouses very strongly democratic values, our respect for rule of law, and respect for human rights, we see this very much as a step in the wrong direction."


Yes, the country may espouse those values but the CPC certainly doesn't.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 04 November 2007 12:22 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Among the dozens of lawyers arrested was the president of the Supreme Court bar association, Aitzaz Ahsan, who has opposed Musharraf in legal arguments and in political protests, said Ayesha Tammy Haq, an Islamabad lawyer.

“If you want to take the country away from Talibanization, these are the people who can do it, the secular middle class,” said Haq, as she waited Sunday at the Adiala jail in Rawalpindi to see Ahsan.



Maybe preserving the bogey man is the point.

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 04 November 2007 10:38 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pakistani press this morning:

Justice Sabihuddin said he received a verdict of the Supreme Court on Saturday night through fax.

quote:
In Karachi, the ousted Chief Justice of Sindh High Court Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed said that judges who refused to take oath under the Provincial Constitution Order will go to duty today (Monday).

According to the unanimous decision of seven judges of the apex court, he said, no judge will take oath under PCO.

Appointment of any judge and chief justice of High Courts and Supreme Court under PCO will be declared unconstitutional and illegal, Justice Sabihuddin maintained.

former President Supreme Court Bar Association Munir A Malik advocate while talking to journalists said after the imposition of PCO, all the constitutional judges assembled at the residence of a judge of Sindh High Court and took a mutual decision that as the Supreme Court has described the PCO as unconstitutional, the courts would continue to perform their duties as per the constitution and all the judges would go to the courts on Monday. Meanwhile, the Sindh High Court Bar Association has announced that no lawyer will attend the courts of those judges who took oath under the PCO.



Situation heading towards civil war:
quote:
According to former president of the Pakistan Bar Council Qazi Muhammad Anwer, the lawyers will boycott courts on Monday and stage demonstrations against the proclamation of emergency and suspension of the constitution.

He feared that the situation was heading towards a civil war where a direct conflict between the army and the public was possible.

People of Rawalpindi and Islamabad thronged to stalls to buy newspapers to keep pace with the latest developments on the current situation, as private television channels were taken off the air on Saturday.

Majority of people did not know about the political developments in the aftermath of the declaration of emergency and got the information through newspapers on Sunday.

Police were also deployed at the Rawalpindi-Islamabad Press Club’s camp office. City magistrate Farasat Ali Khan threatened the mediapersons present in the press club that anybody who stood outside the club would be arrested.

He also said nobody was allowed to address any press conference on the premises.



Countrywide crackdown : Hundreds of lawyers, rights activists and politicians detained, says "Dawn":
quote:
Police and other law-enforcement personnel launched a crackdown across the country on Sunday, apparently fearing a large-scale protest campaign against imposition of emergency.

Opposition politicians, prominent lawyers and rights activists were detained in large numbers in several cities and towns of the country.

Prominent among those detained included PML-N acting president Javed Hashmi, ANP chief Asfandyar Wali Khan, former ISI director-general Gen (retd) Hameed Gul and rights activists I.A. Rehman and Iqbal Haider and hundreds of other people on the second day.

Police detained over 600 people in Lahore. Lahore District Bar president Mohammad Shah, Lahore High Court Bar Association president Ahsan Bhoon, advocates Ashtar Ausaaf, Khalid Hussain and Iftikhar Bhatti were also arrested.

The Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) and the Pakistan Tehrik-i-Isnaaf claimed that over 1,200 and 50 activists, respectively, had been detained in two days of crackdown.

In Rawalpindi, police rounded up nearly 60 people, including a retired judge, the former ISI director-general, lawyers and human rights activists.

Officials said that around 400 ‘preventive arrests’ had been made across the country.

Aitzaz Ahsan, the newly-elected president of the Supreme Court Bar Association (SCBA), who was arrested from Islamabad on Saturday night, was sent to the Adiala jail.

A senior police official said: “There is no specific target for arrests, but our main concern is to foil Monday’s protest announced by opposition parties and lawyers.”

Many lawyers and political workers went underground to avoid arrest.



Elections may be delayed for a year:
quote:
Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz was non-committal about how long the emergency would continue and just said that it would last for “as long as it was an utmost necessity”.

However, Mr Aziz said a decision about rescheduling the elections would be taken after consultation with all stakeholders.

Parliament was empowered, he said, to delay elections for a year under a state of emergency.

Barring the state-run Pakistan Television, none of the local or international news channels could be viewed in the country because of the government ban on private TV channels.

Regarding rejection of the imposition of emergency by a bench of the Supreme Court, he claimed: “This ruling holds no significance as it came after the declaration of emergency and the judges on the bench had been removed from their office.”

“The judiciary will function in the normal way. Army will not be called in any part of the country and only police and paramilitary forces will be used,” he said.

He said the government wanted an agreement on a code of conduct for setting parameters for the electronic media before allowing the blocked private television channels to resume their telecasts.



Benazir may fly to Islamabad today:
quote:
Former prime minister and Pakistan People’s Party Chairperson Benazir Bhutto condemned the arrest of lawyers and political activists and called upon all political forces to launch a joint struggle against dictatorship.

Ms Bhutto is expected to travel to Islamabad on Monday where she is expected to preside over a meeting of her party’s Central Executive Committee and meet leaders of other parties. However, Bilawal House sources were not confirming her travel plan, obviously for security reasons.

Throughout the day Ms Bhutto was in contact with PPP leaders across the country amid reports that scores of activists had been arrested in Gujrat, Bahawalpur, Sargodha, Kot Momin and Lahore while forcing many others to go underground as police raided their homes.

She strongly deplored the detention of the Supreme Court Bar Association president, Barrister Aitzaz Ahsan, and PPP and democratic activists.

Ms Bhutto called for restoration of the Constitution and the holding of elections on time. She also demanded immediate release of the detained PPP activists and withdrawal of cases against them.

She also called upon the international community, human rights bodies and members of the legal fraternity to press for fair and free elections in Pakistan and end of military rule.

Meanwhile a delegation of the National Party called on the PPP chief and exchanged views with her on political situation.



Police deployed outside house of Chief Justice of Sindh High Court:
quote:
Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed responded that he had received orders from the Supreme Court requesting him to report to work in the morning.

“As far as we know, after the Supreme Court verdict which has already denounced the PCO, he is still the chief justice of the SHC,” Barrister Salahuddin Ahmed, son of Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed, told Dawn.



It remains unclear how many more judges will be taking oath on Monday.

[ 04 November 2007: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Skinny Dipper
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posted 05 November 2007 02:36 AM      Profile for Skinny Dipper   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Will the West support a good or bad dictatorship? I'm being fecitious/fashesus/facitious (but not fictitious) about this question. As long as the good dictator of Pakistan is against the potential bad dictators and supporters of the Taliban and al-Qaeda, the western leaders won't make too much noise with respect to Pakistan.
From: Ontarian for STV in BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic2
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posted 05 November 2007 04:44 AM      Profile for Polunatic2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lock up your draft age children!
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 05 November 2007 04:46 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lawyers at the vanguard.

quote:

Police armed with tear gas and clubs attacked thousands of protesting lawyers in the city of Lahore today, and rounded up lawyers in other cities as the government of the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, faced the first signs of concerted resistance to the imposition of emergency rule.

An estimated 150 lawyers were arrested in Lahore after a pitched battle between police and lawyers who stood on the roof of the High Court throwing stones at the police below. Some of the lawyers had bleeding heads as they were shoved into police vans, and some fainted in the clouds of tear gas.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/world/asia/06pakistan.html?hp

So much for democracy and the rule of law.


quote:

In Islamabad, aides to General Musharraf — who had dismissed pleas on Friday from Ms. Rice and Adm. William J. Fallon, the senior military commander in the Middle East, to avoid the state-of-emergency declaration — said they had anticipated that there would be few real consequences.

They called the American reaction “muted,” saying General Musharraf had not received phone calls of protest from Mr. Bush or other senior American officials. In unusually candid terms, they said American officials supported stability over democracy.

“They would rather have a stable Pakistan — albeit with some restrictive norms — than have more democracy prone to fall in the hands of extremists,” said Tariq Azim Khan, the minister of state for information. “Given the choice, I know what our friends would choose.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/05/world/asia/06diplo.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
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posted 05 November 2007 07:52 AM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The comments from the US 'regretting' this turn of events is the usual farce, saying something pubically, but supporting something else. They've been after the Pakistani government for years to crack down on fundamental Islamists, both on the militant side within the border regions, and within the elements that find supporters through newspapers, TV, Radio, the judiciary, and opposition groups. Martial law is the only way to begin silencing the widespread pro-Islamist forces that rail against Musharraf's alliance with the US. The US knows full well that if true democratic elections were held in Pakistan, or in any Muslim country that is ruled by US friendly dictators or kings, the result would be similar to what occurred in Gaza, with Hamas being elected. Of course they have to "regret" it in public, or else admit they support military dictatorships for their own neo-colonial purposes. The democrats in the US congress may make some noise about cutting off aid to Pakistan, however it will most likely turn out like the Armenian Genocide non-vote. Enough of the Democrats will be persuaded that it is in the US vital interests not to alienate the Pakistani government beyond a few official statements for public consumption, especially when Musharraf is doing now what they've asked him to do all along.
From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 05 November 2007 08:41 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So a country is possession of nuclear weapons has a coup d'etat in which large numbers of the judiciary are arrested. Hmm. Isn't that a danger to regional and international stability?

Perhaps we can expect a large campaign of sanctions and actions to isolate the Pakistani regime being begun at once, especially by the U.S.?

But, of course, that won't happen because "interests" trump democracy in the real world of global geo-politics. Apparently it's more "important" to denounce the junta in Myanmar and tweak Chinese noses by making nice with the Dalai Lama. Pakistan has more than one powerful friend, such as China AND the U.S., and it won't do to let Pakistan's other friends be in a better position.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 05 November 2007 08:43 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
Martial law is the only way to begin silencing the widespread pro-Islamist forces that rail against Musharraf's alliance with the US.

You're buying Musharraf's line. It's totally false. All, or almost all, the secular democratic parties and the legal establishment have been, and are still, calling for the restoration of democracy and the rule of law. Maintenance of military rule is not necessary, except for Musharraf.
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
The US knows full well that if true democratic elections were held in Pakistan, or in any Muslim country that is ruled by US friendly dictators or kings, the result would be similar to what occurred in Gaza, with Hamas being elected.

Not at all. The MMA's result in 2002 was a new high for Islamist parties, and resulted from a split vote among the democratic secular parties combined with unusual unity among the Islanists. They are most likely to be rolled back to their NWFP base this time.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
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Babbler # 10108

posted 05 November 2007 09:05 AM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:

Not at all. The MMA's result in 2002 was a new high for Islamist parties, and resulted from a split vote among the democratic secular parties combined with unusual unity among the Islanists. They are most likely to be rolled back to their NWFP base this time.

This is not about buying anyone's line, it's about recognizing the two faced line coming out of Washington. Secularists as well as Islamists no doubt would welcome the return to democracy, because each sees it as a useful vehicle to advance their respective causes. Musharraf has been able to deal with the divergence among the various secular factions. His US friendly policies have buoyed the Islamists with a greater degree of popular support than they would normally have obtained on their own. His iron fist approach in the western border regions, with the resulting civilian casualties, although viewed appreciatively by the US even though they would they would like to see much more of it, has erased any chance of co-existance in a democracy with Islamists. In much the same way, the murderous US methods in Afghanistan have negated any possibility of peace with the factions that ultimately would need to be bought to a table for talks. These are similar self defeating patterns of behavior and policy.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 07 November 2007 04:02 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What could happen to make this even more of a total mess just did. Not tht it isn't very necessary.

quote:
Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto has issued what correspondents say is an ultimatum to President Pervez Musharraf to end emergency rule.

She repeated plans for a rally on Friday, despite an official ban, and called for a "long march" next week unless Gen Musharraf changed course.

She insisted that he restore the constitution, hold elections and resign as head of the army...."How many people can they put behind bars? We will produce so many that they will not have enough jails," she said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7082827.stm


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 November 2007 07:55 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/07/pakistan.html

quote:
Bush to Musharraf: 'You can't be president and head of the military'

Pakistan's Bhutto threatens 'long march' amid military rule

In a "frank discussion" on Wednesday over the telephone, U.S. President George W. Bush asked his Pakistani counterpart to quit his role as army chief and restore democracy to Pakistan.

"You can't be the president and the head of the military at the same time," Bush said Wednesday, describing to reporters his phone conversation with Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.


Really, O Commander in Chief of the US armed forces?

Bloody hypocrite.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 07 November 2007 08:53 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, its true! Look how badly he's messed up both jobs.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 09 November 2007 10:13 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Civil society makes a statement:

Resolution from political groups, lawyers, trade unionists, professional bodies, writers, human rights activists, etc.

Here's the interesting bit ...

quote:
We strongly condemn the imposition of State of Emergency, promulgation of Provisional Constitution Order (PCO), suspension of fundamental rights and the dismantling of the entire structure of the judiciary, by the Chief of Army Staff. We regard these steps as illegal and unconstitutional, amounting to virtual abrogation of the Constitution and imposition of Martial Law. an act of high treason according to Article 6 of the Constitution of Pakistan.

High treason. Even Canada has, or did have, the death penalty for that.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 09 November 2007 10:53 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just think that after another ten or more years of our troops dying in Afghanistan we might promote a democracy like they have in Pakistan.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 09 November 2007 07:11 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
Just think that after another ten or more years of our troops dying in Afghanistan we might promote a democracy like they have in Pakistan.

Pakistan deserves a lot more respect than that.

Its provinces had had elected legislative assemblies for a long time before 1947. Due to war after 1947, it took until 1956 for Pakistan to achieve its first constitution. Meanwhile it was ruled by the Constituent Assembly that first met in 1947, appointed by the elected legislatures. New elections were held for the provincial legislative assemblies such as Punjab in 1951. They in turn elected the second Constituent Assembly in 1955, followed by general elections in 1956 for the new "provincial assembly of West Pakistan" -- the same territory as today's Pakistan, replacing the Punjab assembly and other assemblies.

The 1956 constitution was, unfortunately, followed in 1958 by Pakistan's first military coup. But a second general election was held in 1962 for this West Pakistan Assembly. It was 1963 before Pakistan's first presidential election, under its new 1962 constitution. A third general election for West Pakistan was held in 1965.

They then held parliamentary elections for the entire country in 1970, followed by the secession of Bangladesh and the need for a constitution for the remainder of Pakistan (formerly West Pakistan) adopted in 1973. Their fifth general election was in 1977.

This was followed by the second coup in 1978. But they continued with parliamentary elections in 1985, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1997, and 2002. Musharraf still has not suspended their 2002 parliament, alhough his party has had to work with being a minority government.

Not really much like Afghanistan.

[ 09 November 2007: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 11 November 2007 03:22 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And now it really is martial law in Pakistan:

quote:
The government on Saturday amended the Army Act of 1952 to give wide-ranging powers to the Army to court-martial civilians.

Under the amended act, the Army can now try civilians on charges ranging from treason, sedition and attack on army personnel to “assaulting the president with intent to compel or restrain the exercise of any lawful power” and “giving statements conducive to public mischief”.


http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/11/top1.htm


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 11 November 2007 07:21 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:

This was followed by the second coup in 1978. But they continued with parliamentary elections in 1985, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1997, and 2002.

This Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley interview with a Lahore news journalist says that Pakistan was basically a lawless militia state run by General Zia throughout most of the 1980's. Pakistan was used as a base by proxy fighters and mercenaries supported by the CIA, Brits and Saudi princes during what was a multinational effort to purge secular socialist thought from that region of the world then. The end result was that the west aided and abetted the Talibanization of both Pakistan and Afghanistan.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 13 November 2007 08:59 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ontario lawyers stand with Pakistan colleagues:
quote:
The actions of President General Pervez Musharraf are blatant violations of fundamental human rights under international law and unacceptable attacks on the independence of the judiciary, the bar, and the rule of law.

The Law Society deplores and condemns the imposition of the Proclamation of Emergency, the suspension of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the dismissal of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and over 40 other judges, the abrogation of the rule of law and of the independence of the Supreme Court Bar Association, and the reported detention of at least 3,500 lawyers and civil rights activists.

Lawyers detained include Mr. Aitzaz Ahsan, President of the Supreme Court Bar Association, officers of other Bar Associations, Asma Jahangir, International Commission of Jurists Commissioner and United Nations Special Rapporteur on religious intolerance and at least 70 members of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.

The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and international human rights instruments, including the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the UN Basic Principles on the Independence of the Judiciary, state that judicial independence and human rights are necessary to advancing the rule of law.

The Law Society calls on the Pakistan authorities to,
• immediately reinstate the Constitution of the Republic of Pakistan and put an end to the Proclamation of Emergency;
• immediately release from detention and house arrest those detained after the declaration of the state of emergency;
• respect the independence of the legal profession and the right of lawyers to exercise freedom of opinion and conscience and to exercise their legitimate professional duties as lawyers;
• restore the independence of the judiciary by reinstating Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and other judicial officers displaced by recent events;
• provide assurances that the elections to take place in January will occur as planned, resulting in a full and democratic transition to civilian rule.

"The Law Society stands with its colleagues in Pakistan who are engaged in upholding the Rule of Law at this difficult time. We recognize that lawyers have a unique role to play in sustaining and developing democratic principles and commend our colleagues for their vigilance and their courage. The erosion of respect for the rule of law elsewhere threatens its tenuous position even in the most democratic societies," said Gavin MacKenzie, Treasurer of the Law Society of Upper Canada.

The Law Society urges the legal community to intervene in support of members of the legal profession in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in their efforts to maintain the independence of the judiciary and to promote the rule of law.



Strong stuff. The Law Society is not the Bar Association, which more often makes political statements. The Law Society is the governing body for the more than 39,000 lawyers in Ontario. The mandate of the Law Society is to govern the legal profession in the public interest by upholding the independence, integrity and honour of the legal profession for the purpose of advancing the cause of justice and the rule of law.

Ontario has a public interest in justice in Pakistan too.

[ 13 November 2007: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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Babbler # 2938

posted 21 November 2007 02:25 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

President Bush yesterday offered his strongest support of embattled Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying the general "hasn't crossed the line" and "truly is somebody who believes in democracy."

. . . .

Several outside analysts and a key Democratic lawmaker expressed incredulity over Bush's comments and called them a sign of how personally invested the president has become in the U.S. relationship with Musharraf.


"What exactly would it take for the president to conclude Musharraf has crossed the line? Suspend the constitution? Impose emergency law? Beat and jail his political opponents and human rights activists?" asked Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a presidential candidate. "He's already done all that.


http://tinyurl.com/ysx4jh


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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Babbler # 6914

posted 21 November 2007 02:30 AM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But Chavez wants multiple terms and federal oversight of the Central Bank, guys...


Pfft...Gawd...DUH!...


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 21 November 2007 08:30 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ya the chickenhawks are really paranoid that Chavez will democratize the financial system in Venezuela. Latin America contributes billions of dollars to IMF reserves so that gringo banks can make loans to desperately poor countries at mafia-style interest rates.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
toddsschneider
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Babbler # 6280

posted 15 December 2007 05:39 PM      Profile for toddsschneider     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Pakistan’s president lifts state of emergency, restores constitution"

http://tinyurl.com/2xlhs9

quote:
President Pervez Musharraf lifted a six-week-old state of emergency Saturday and said in a nationally televised address that he imposed it as a last resort to save Pakistan from destruction from an unspecified conspiracy.

Musharraf said unnamed conspirators had hatched a plot with members of the judiciary to derail the country’s transition to democracy. Parliamentary elections, scheduled for Jan. 8, will determine who will form the next government.

“Against my will, as a last resort, I had to impose the emergency in order to save Pakistan,” Musharraf said. “The conspiracy was hatched to destabilize the country. I cannot tell how much pain the nation and I suffered due to this conspiracy.”



From: Montreal, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged

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