My first long term relationship was with a guy who was so scared of pregnancy that he didn't even trust birth control pills (which is good because I didn't want to use them) and had to use condoms because it was physical, visual proof that nothing bad was gonna happen.

So, I guess I kind of figured that most guys, at least most intelligent ones, were into safe sex and using condoms. How wrong I was! Since him, I have not met a guy yet who would voluntarily use a condom. In fact, most were either subtly or not-so-subtly discouraging about using them. What the hell is up with that? That's what I'd like to know.

And what the hell is up with me? It's my fault too. Most of you know me as a very assertive person. I ain't no shrinking violet and I let my opinions be known. But for some reason, I have a very hard time insisting on using them. Actually, it's hard enough for me to bring up the subject, much less insist on it. But the times I've brought it up and it's been brushed off, I haven't had the nerve to say, "No, seriously. I insist." Fear of killing the mood? Fear of rejection? I don't know, I guess maybe both.

So the reason I say safer sex is a feminist issue is because if a diehard, opinionated feminist like me feels insecure about insisting on safer sex, then perhaps it's something to discuss with other feminists. I haven't really noticed this subject being discussed as a major feminist issue. But I've talked privately with other women who say they also find it difficult to insist with guys who seem resistant to using them.

Am I just a weird anomaly and every other feminist feels comfortable about insisting? I feel like I can't be, since diseases do spread so widely, especially the more "benign" ones like chlamydia, trichomoniasis, and gonorrhea.

I would almost welcome a return to a certain kind of "chivalry" on the matter, where it becomes the role of the man in a sexual relationship to OFFER, not to just wait for the woman to ask, to use a condom. Should feminists be making this a major focus, insisting that guys who don't at least offer to use one aren't worth our time? Should we try to make it a social faux pas for a guy not to offer? Is it already, and I just haven't been sent the memo?

quote:

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Should feminists be making this a major focus, insisting that guys who don't at least offer to use one aren't worth our time?

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Most definitely. We are fortunate enough to live in a country where we can freely ask our partners to do this, and as far as I see it, any man who would refuse, isn't worth my time, and hopefully the time of many other women. By letting him get away with it, woman after woman, this man is only going to think it is acceptable not to wear a condom, because we allow it. Most likely (and I don't mean to speak for the men, because I like to hope that many men are willing, and offering to wear condoms) there are some men out there who know if one woman refuses to consent to sex without a condom, the next woman will, putting the onus on us as women to create a negative stigma about NOT wearing a condom.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: jrose ]

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Cost is not an excuse either. Many health clinics give condoms away for free.

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True enough. I noticed a young couple buying a pack at the pharmacy the other day, so kudos for them for being safe, but it was fascinating to watch them giggle, and hesitate and cringe at the fear of going up to the counter to purchase them. They were absolutely terrified and embarrassed. The girl ended up waiting, watching in the make-up department so she didn't have to go to register to pay for them with her boyfriend. It was completely endearing, but at the same time when I was younger I was one of those rare breeds of the mindset that if you're too bashful and scared to actually go buy condoms, you might not be emotionally ready to have sex! Same goes for going to a doctor to be perscribed the pill or to a clinic to get some freebies. Good for them for being safe though.

I'm sure given how bashful they were, they'd be humiliated to know I noticed, and am now posting their embarrassment online! haha

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: jrose ]

I didn't mind buying them, though. I was nervous the first couple of times, and a bit embarrassed (truth be told, I'm still a little self-conscious about browsing the condom shelf at the drug store), but not to the point of the couple you saw, jrose.

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That embarrassment is so severe for many that ... condoms are one of the items most likely to be stolen. Check out a store where condoms are sold and you are almost certainly going to see a camera pointing at you when you stand in front of the shelf.

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My notion the most feminists had no problems with insisting on condoms,was based upon my daughter's age gradient and her group of friends and associations that is only about 5-10 years younger than you.

My daughter and friends all readily use condoms, insist on it so much so, that they buy their own rubber condoms from a condom store, by the case. Even though they are, for the most part, also utilizing other means of birth control and many are in committed partnerships. They figure if a man does not want to wear one, they do not want to be with him anyway, as most likely he has a STD of some sort. Plus there is the having deal with residual discharge that is really someone else's.

As a her, I have always, and still do insist on condoms, though married for 28 years and having had a hysterectomoy for the 14 of those years. Being the repository of that- oh so special gift-was/is not my idea of comfort in standing or walking and of being in public after the fact. As such, I have always insisted on condom use. I figure it is the man's and it is they who should look after and deal with it, when all is said and done, not me.

Anyhow, I kind of got out of listening to podcasts altogether, although I still listen occasionally from the computer when I am doing housework, so I don't listen to it anymore. But during their first couple of months, they did one on contraception and safe sex. And they mentioned these condoms, which they had all tried with their partners to "test them out". They had such incredible rave reviews for them (as in, I don't like condoms by OH MY GOD THESE ONES ARE SO DIFFERENT kind of reviews) that I thought, hmm, I should try them sometime. But I never have.

Just thought I'd throw that out there in case anyone has tried them, or is interested in trying a kind that is highly recommended. Not sure if they're available in Canada though - doesn't say on the web site. (It was an American podcast.)

P.S. They do sell them here!

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

quote:

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Good guess. Regular and large.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
To put things back on track, earlier in my life I more than once had the experience of having a woman take offense at me producing a condom. Somehow it implied to them that I thought they were disease-ridden.

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That's interesting. I think that's part of the reason I have a hard time insisting, because for most guys you have to spell out the reason why you want them to use it. Most guys I've been with seem to think that the only reason to use a condom is for birth control, and figure they'll deal with that in "other ways", so it's hard to say, no, actually, it doesn't matter if you pull out or whatever, the point of safe sex is actually not just avoiding pregnancy. But if you have to explain that far, then you're implicitly saying you're not sure they don't have something.

But the fact is, most guys don't even visit their doctor regularly, much less get tested regularly for STDs.

quote:

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:
That embarrassment is so severe for many that ... condoms are one of the items most likely to be stolen.

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Wow, this is so sad a commentary on the part of the parents IMV.

Back to the topic. I am not an expert (being female), but I think that many men still object to condoms for two reasons: inconvenience and reduced sensation. Is that true? And if so, how does that relate to safer-sex as a feminist issue? I have some sympathy for men who feel that sex is diminished by existing condom technology, none for the condom as inconvenience objection.

I don't know how the first objection is specifically anti-feminist, though. If sex simply feels better without a condom, then that's a truth that has to be dealt with, irrespective of ideologies. I think self-respect is the larger issue - men and women respecting themselves enough to forgo maximum gratification in favour of protecting their health.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: Valiant Mouse ]

I think the problem is, a lot of people (including me) figure that half the fun of oral sex is the actual skin contact, way moreso than intercourse (at least, for women anyhow!). Not sure whether it's even possible to make barrier protection for oral sex seem the least bit palatable. I suppose that's what flavoured condoms are all about. Do they have flavoured dental dams? Google and ye shall find.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Sure my daughter was embarassed the first time I threw her a case of condoms and said "when you do, make sure you use them and if you need more tell me". But it is actions of that type which are needed by the parents of teens. The reality is teens are going to engage in sexual activity, of some type, deal with it, get over it, and buy your kids high quality rubber condoms, may they be her or hims.

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They wouldn't think they were mine, as that would imply I have sex with their dad, and that would just be gross.

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Originally posted by jrose:
It's true. It's humiliating at the time, for sure, but in the end I think your kids will thank you for being so upfront. I know that's how I feel about my parent's approach. It's easy to trust that the education system will teach your kids all about the birds and bees, but if the sex-ed programs are anything like they were 10 years ago, kids aren't getting all the information.

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Well, as far as I can see, the open approach to address it with them should always prevail, embarassed or not, by either youreself, or the teen. My openess has had many benefits for my daughter, and also her circle of friends, of both sexes. She still is friends with several from when she was a teenager, and those who use(d) condoms have never had a STD, though ones who were not regular users have.

Funnily enough, when she told her friends what I had done, and how embarassed she was, as she was not yet sexually active, they were so appreciative, that unknown to me, she started a lucrative secondary market of selling them to her friends, and acquaintences that were sexually active. They were able to forgo the embarassment factor by purchasing condoms from a peer.

She was even smart enough that she got me to buy every 3rd or so box, and went and purchased the ones in between. So, they all got a taste for the high quality rubber condoms, which I believe has also contributed to the low unwanted pregnancy and STD rates amongst her circle of friends.

Also, included with the box of condoms was a book like the Joy of Sex. Which she also read and then sold to another who wanted it.

Now in my own age gradient and circle of friends, all most all are also regular users of condoms. Some started insisting their partners start using them after discussions with me about how my partner and I use condoms even though there is no need for birth control or minimal worries of STD's. This was/is mainly because of the residual seepage, that either requires condom use, douches or mini pads to take of it. It seemed once they were given permission, just by open discussion, to tell the man in their life to look after his own fluids when done, they have never looked back.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: remind ]

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This was/is mainly because of the residual speepage, that either requires condom use, douches or mini pads to take of it.

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I really can't imagine, as a guy, that it would be all that pleasant to have congealed semen seeping out and sticking to your thighs.

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
You know. Seepage. After a guy finishes, his semen has to leave the vagina.

I really can't imagine, as a guy, that it would be all that pleasant to have congealed semen seeping out and sticking to your thighs.

I'm a huge fan of condom use for just that reason.

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Awesome Heywood, I applaud your sensitivity and understanding, how the seepage impacts women. It does not seem to be something that most men pick up on, and for some reason women do not mention it to their partners, or their having to deal with it, either.

I'm so glad, btw, that other people posted to this topic. When I checked it two or three hours after I posted it, no one had posted yet, and I thought, oh gawd, I bare my soul and it's SINKING LIKE A STONE!

jrose, if my father had ever done that with any of my boyfriends, I wouldn't have known whether to just die of embarrassment, or to kill him first and then die of embarrassment!

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
When the hell are they going to come out with this injectable controception method people are talking about?

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For men?

Women's have been around for a long while.

Shots still do not take care of STD's and seepage problems from non-condom use.
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eta: To echo Remind, thank you Michelle. That took guts.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]

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Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Which brands of condoms don't reduce sensation?

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If you have a long term disease free partner the look for Avanti Lambskin condoms. They feel great because they're very close in sensation to a vagina and they transmit body heat really well, which is one of the reasons people hated older condoms. Remember though that these do not prevent STD's because the pores are too large.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:

(seems to me that getting laid is pretty positive)

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jrose, if my father had ever done that with any of my boyfriends, I wouldn't have known whether to just die of embarrassment, or to kill him first and then die of embarrassment!

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Not one of my finest moments, that's for sure!

remind and Polly Brandybuck, you two are awesome, by the way. My parents always let it be known that I could talk to them about stuff, my mother told me I could go on the pill if I ever needed to, and I'm sure either of them would have provided me with condoms in high school. But neither of them left them out for me to take or anything, not that I fault them for this. Maybe it's because I had a part-time job for a summer at a drug store, but when I started to need condoms, I just went out and bought them.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
...since some kids become sexually active as young as 11 or 12 years old. Gah. I'm so not ready for that thought!

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Originally posted by jrose:
...I think the idea of leaving them out is incredible. I never would have thought of it! I’m going to have to keep that one in mind. It gives easy access, without the threat of embarrassment of having to go and ask.

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Never thought about the embarassment of having them have to come ask, as my daughter didn't of course she was not using them-at first-and was selling them so she really didn't have any reason to be embarassed. Guilty of usary perhaps but not embarassed.

I'm born in the early 80's I have always used a condom with a new partner (now we're monogamous (sp?) ahd have have the STD tests). I've never felt badly about taking a "no condom = no sex" stance. I know it's a a hassle and an expense (although I do fondly remember the uni. days where we had oodles of free condoms in our bathroom - in Rez, people dressed as condom fairies - that's wings, a tutu and a basket -of condoms came door-to-door giving out condoms), but really who wants to play Russian roulette? As Mr. Summer says "sure it feels better without a condom, but what guy is going to say 'if you insist on a condom I won't sleep with you' ?" To avoid making a broad statment based on stereotypes, let me say that I have personally never met a guy who would turn down sex.

So here I was merrily going through life thinking everyone insisted on condoms, when a few years ago I learned from some younger (female) colleages that condoms weren't cool at their highschool and that it was the norm for ppl not to use them. WTF??? Is this a generational think? is it a sign that women have taken a huge step backwards? Is is that ppl are no longer concerned about STD's, because they believe they and their friends are clean? All of the above? None of the above?

Re seepage: kleenex by the bed and a quick post-coital trip to the loo are my solution.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: Summer ]

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Originally posted by Summer:
Is is that ppl are no longer concerned about STD's, because they believe they and their friends are clean?

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I think it is a generational thing, in part. Many young people think that they are immortal and that STDs happen to "other people". Same with driving drunk and other stupid behavior. "It'll never happen to me."

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Originally posted by jrose:
It's humiliating at the time, for sure, but in the end I think your kids will thank you for being so upfront.

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quote:

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Why do you think it's humiliating?

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Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Because We live in a VERY prudish society that really doesn't like to talk about sex. It's difficult for many people to overcome that conditioning.

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You are quite correct, it seems the indoctrination from the Victoeian era, still holds some parts of society in its thrall.

In my experience most ppl are fine with (a). My close friends and I have definitely had lots of talks on (b). (c) is a little more difficult depending on the relationship, but I usually was able to ask general questions to both my parents. Now (d) on the other hand, that is line I will not cross. I don't like to think about my parents having sex and I don't want to talk to them about my sex life. You can call me a prude, but I think it's healthy to leave certain things unsaid.

So to all those parents out there, here is my advice: talk to your kids about sex early and often, it's a lot easier to talk in the abstract when sex is not on their horizon. Then, when your child has hit puberty you will already have an open relationship. Even then, I think it can be beneficial to keep things general.

I don't think keeping sex private is prudish/Victorian. Sex is a private activity between two (or sometime more ) people.

Actually, maybe I should add talking about sex with your partner. If a person can't do that then they are not ready for sex and/or are a prude!

quote:

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Originally posted by Summer:
I think we have to draw a distinction between talking about sex in general (a) and talking about your sex life in particular (b). To that we can add the following distinction: talking about sex in general with your parents (c) and talking about your sex life with your parents(d).

In my experience most ppl are fine with (a). My close friends and I have definitely had lots of talks on (b). (c) is a little more difficult depending on the relationship, but I usually was able to ask general questions to both my parents. Now (d) on the other hand, that is line I will not cross. I don't like to think about my parents having sex and I don't want to talk to them about my sex life. You can call me a prude, but I think it's healthy to leave certain things unsaid.

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I pretty much concur with your points. The sexual intercourse discussions I would have with my daughter would be of the medical/technical kind, if needed. I do not want to hear what she does privately, nor does she want to know of mine. Though I may direct her to a condom type that we have found to be successful.

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Originally posted by remind:

I do not want to hear what she does privately, nor does she want to know of mine.

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Ha. That's for sure. My boys were asking one day where they were born, as in what city and what hospital. My husband, who'd had a couple beers, said he'd forgotten where they were born but he remembered which one of them had been conceived on the hood of the car!

I guess that's not funny.

quote:

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Originally posted by Polly Brandybuck:
Ha. That's for sure. My boys were asking one day where they were born, as in what city and what hospital. My husband, who'd had a couple beers, said he'd forgotten where they were born but he remembered which one of them had been conceived on the hood of the car!

I guess that's not funny.

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quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jrose:
It's humiliating at the time, for sure, but in the end I think your kids will thank you for being so upfront.

Why do you think it's humiliating? Maybe it's because I'm not a parent, just the crazy uncle who can talk to my nieces and nephews as I see fit?

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As a parent and as someone who had a child at 17 I think I can spell out how things went for me and my circle of friends. We all pretty much had the same experiences when it came to sex.

We had sex ed early (In grade 6 we were shown movies and told about safe sex). The sex ed continued into high middle and high school. The problem wasn't that we had no idea how to protect ourselves, I think we all thought we were immune. We all knew where to go to get treated for any sexually transmitted diseases, and I have to admit, quite a few of us ended up there. We were young, and we thought we were invincible, just as Sven suggested above, it was a case of 'never going to die'. Aids and HIV were just starting to be hot issues, and herpes was as well.

Despite that fact, none of the females I knew, including myself, felt comfortable asking our dates to use condoms. It would go like this:

Girl: "You don't have any diseases I should know about do you?"
Boy: "No why, do you?"
Girl: "No."

That would be the end of it. Much of it was far too much trust. Much of it was the feeling of hurting someone by asking they use one and much of it was just plain stupidity (looking back eh?)

Jump forward 20 years and the conversations are still the same. Of course, no one has been with anyone else who may have a disease. No one has had too many partners. No one has been exposed - needle or otherwise, to HIV. *Sure!!!!***

I remember telling my mom that I was sexually active. She pretended she didn't hear a thing. No kidding. This issue was just not talked about in my house. My mom was a teenager in the 50's and early 60's. No discussion of birth control or condoms occurred. It was more a don't see, don't ask thing.

When I got pregnant there was no more denial going on. Funny how parents can claim surprise at pregnancies amongst their kids.

Anyways jump to my son, at 14 years old my best friend gave him a giant jar of condoms and I always had talks with him about safe sex, diseases etc. I think he was most likely sick of it. But, apparently this didn't work so well either, and I think again Sven's point that as teens they feel invincible is relevant. My son had a child with his then 19 year old girlfriend. Since that time I know he sleeps around quite alot, despite what I say about it, however I also know he is using condoms, because I buy them, and they disappear.

To go on a bit more I have heard the whole range of excuses from men who won't wear them:

- Makes sex not as good due to insensitivity
- Hurts to use them
- Allergic (yep!)
- Hey, really, I was ever only with my ex and she's clean
- I had a vasectomy

Oftentimes it is hard to insist on their use, just because again, those feelings of making another person uncomfortable, or having them think you think they have a disease. As irrational as that all is, it is the truth.

quote:

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Originally posted by jrose:

True enough. I noticed a young couple buying a pack at the pharmacy the other day, so kudos for them for being safe, but it was fascinating to watch them giggle, and hesitate and cringe at the fear of going up to the counter to purchase them. They were absolutely terrified and embarrassed. The girl ended up waiting, watching in the make-up department so she didn't have to go to register to pay for them with her boyfriend. It was completely endearing, but at the same time when I was younger I was one of those rare breeds of the mindset that if you're too bashful and scared to actually go buy condoms, you might not be emotionally ready to have sex! Same goes for going to a doctor to be perscribed the pill or to a clinic to get some freebies. Good for them for being safe though.

I'm sure given how bashful they were, they'd be humiliated to know I noticed, and am now posting their embarrassment online! haha

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: jrose ]

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I'd be afraid of buying condoms in my home neighbourhood because there are a lot of people I don't care for, and I don't want them to know I'm having sex, who I'm having sex with, or to know any gossip about me at all. Then there's always some religious people who might decide to give me a lecture. I get my condoms from the Shag shop in McGill's health clinic.

[ 05 June 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

When you're in your thirties, I think people just kind of assume you're probably having sex at least sometimes.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
That's interesting! I can understand that sentiment in a small town, but Montreal? I'm used to feeling pretty anonymous in a big city, but then again, I guess if I were going to high school here in my neighbourhood, then there would be a much better chance of running into people I know at the drug store, and also a much better chance that it would matter to anyone whether I was having sex.

When you're in your thirties, I think people just kind of assume you're probably having sex at least sometimes.

I love being a grownup. The older I get, the better I like it!

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In downtown montreal or in any other suburbs I would not be too concerned. I just would not buy condoms in any pharmacy in my neighbourhood. There's not that many of them and I bump into people from HS frequently enough. My situation is a bit extreme as I went to a parochial high school. Six years later I'm still running away.

Not to mention family. My parents don't know, or I might be kicked out. It really reduces a person's sex life when both boy and girl live with mommy and daddy, and neither owns a car .

[ 05 June 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

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Oftentimes it is hard to insist on their use, just because again, those feelings of making another person uncomfortable, or having them think you think they have a disease. As irrational as that all is, it is the truth.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 500_Apples:
Not to mention family. My parents don't know, or I might be kicked out. It really reduces a person's sex life when both boy and girl live with mommy and daddy, and neither owns a car.

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I am sorry that you have to experience such conditional regard from your family. Are you sure you are not assuming, at what 23 years old, that they would kick you out for being sexually active? And if it is so, would you impose the same upon your children, should you have them?

------------------------------------

Stargazer,

I simply can't imagine feeling more responsible, for someone else's emotional feelings, over my physical and emotional well being, and thereby solidifying a possible fate of having to deal with a STD that could kill me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Heh, remind. It's not hard to tell that you have not grown up in a very religious family. I knew a woman once who lived at home during university, and had a very strict Catholic family. She could never have told them she was having sex. If they didn't kick her out on the spot, there would have been an ultimatum.

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Well, you are half correct, my family was not religious, mainly because of the blended nature of the Jewish Protestant sides. However, the community that I was raised in was, and still is centered around religion, but not Catholic. It is also a dry municipality to this day.

I feel real empathy for children such as 500aples, and your example, and I regret that any parents could feel justified in conditional regard.

quote:

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Originally posted by remind:

I am sorry that you have to experience such conditional regard from your family. Are you sure you are not assuming, at what 23 years old, that they would kick you out for being sexually active? And if it is so, would you impose the same upon your children, should you have them?

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I'm not sure, but I didn't like the hypothetical answers and I prefer not to risk it for the time being. If I get engaged, they'll have a choice to make.

quote:

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Originally posted by Polly Brandybuck:
That's an excellent sentiment...I wish more parents were like that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by remind:

Moreover, it was the children of the "most" religious who were the worst behaved when away from their parent's control.

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quote:

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Originally posted by remind:
Moreover, it was the children of the "most" religious who were the worst behaved when away from their parent's control.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slumberjack:
...I believe that kids who are educated with a more realistic view of the world tend to be more balanced when they encounter unfamiliar issues. The problems with sheltered youths are multiplied in a group setting when they find an opportunity to romp.

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Education and life experiences are need to be combined for 'knowledge" to occur. Sadly, in some areas do to misguided beliefs education is not occuring.

As Michelle mentioned, there is a thread here about purity vows and youth engaging in other sexual activity, that puts them in high risk of acquiring and STD. The thread contained stats showing how the STD rate is growing amongst this sub-set.

However, what I find alarming, and what was revealed in this thread, is the mental disconnect in the utilization of condoms for personal safety.

Birth control wasn't straight forward for my ex an I when we were young. The pill lowered her libido disasterously, and an I.U.D. wasn't to her liking either for physical or psychological reasons. I could never sort out which.

So, we relied on condoms. Which was okay with me-- although I didn't like the way my pubic hair used to get tangled in the ring, and I didn't like dealing with it after use. Minor irritants, really.

There was loss of sensitivity, but that just made for more fun in those days.

But after our second daughter was born, the loss of sensitivity, coupled with... a partner who perhaps wasn't as aggresive with her Kegel excersizes as she might have been, meant episodes where I could not orgasm inside her, which upset her to no end. She was convinced this was due to her being unappealing, no matter what I said or did to convince her otherwise.

This introduced a certain pressure in our sex lives that I really could have done without.

Heard enough yet? No? Okay, onward we go....

So, after the birth of our third and last daughter, I went right away for a vasectomy.

This not only solved the sex in the first few months after birth problem, it gave me an insight into the joys of the Spanish Inquisition when I had needles shoved in my testicles.

In thinking about this, I remembered a funny episode when a guy at work was asking about how my equipment worked post vasectomy. I kept telling him just like before, only better, and he kept asking, until it dawned on me what he really wanted to know but was afraid to ask. So I said, "yes Gord, white stuff still comes shooting out of the end of my knob."

This satisfied his curiousity. I think he wanted a vasectomy, but was reluctant-- maintaining the white stuff shooting out the end of his knob was a priority with him, and he thought that a vasectomy stopped that from happening.

The memory made me wonder if some guys might be reluctant to use condoms because ejaculating ejaculate into a woman is a major turn on for them, that condoms by thier very nature, take away?

That was never a big deal with me, but that's not to say it can't be a big deal for others.

Some people are wierd, you know.

And don't tell me how stupid I am, I have already told myself.

I came of age in the heady pre HIV days when then known STD's were curable.

But in that interlude when I was singulated by my separation and contemplating a possible life with multiple partners engaged in activities too risky to describe in the feminist forum, it never occurred to me that I wouldn't be using a condom.

To me, contrary to where many believe the seat of a man's consciousness is, condom use was a no brainer.

[ 06 June 2007: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]