The staff moderator of babble has been summarily fired. I believe this discharge to be unjust, or at the very least, it has been poorly explained and apparently without due process.

Although unfortunately I do not have the ability to close this forum entirely, I would strongly urge all "pro-worker" babblers to cease posting to this forum until this situation is resolved. Scott Piatkowski has advised me that the USA forum is likewise on strike until further notice.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

quote:

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Originally posted by robbie_dee:
Although unfortunately I do not have the ability to close this forum entirely, I would strongly urge all "pro-worker" babblers to cease posting to this forum until this situation is resolved. The USA forum is likewise considered struck until further notice.

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Also what would be helpful is if regular Rabble donors would speak up.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

quote:

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I think the idea is to withhold substantive contributions of content to this site, which draw traffic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:

Would podcasts count? Like, say, the one I would have otherwise uploaded today?

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Judy Rebick
CAW-Sam Gindin Chair in Social Justice and Democracy
Ryerson University
350 Victoria Street
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
M5B 2K3

quote:

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Magoo, you have to promise that you won't address us as "sports fans," or open by saying "Hi gang."

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Not to worry. I wasn't looking for encouragement to post it. More like the opposite. So here the nicely labelled tape sits, in my hand, the tape deck a taunting two feet from me, Sound Forge ready to do its part to convert my voice to bits and bytes... but not today.

Look, babble authorities, The Evil WingNut has been retired. But you settle this mess with the Valiant and Paperwork Challenged Audra right now or there is gonna be trouble.

Now I'm not saying what sort of trouble, but when I say trouble, I do mean trouble even if it is a vague, somewhat unthreatening, but nevertheless ominous trouble. Am I clear? I hope so.

So fix this up or there'll be something that you may or may not regret depending on any final resolution as per the exact meaning of trouble asssuming there is any exact meaning that can be narrowly defined in specific terms.

Don't make me have to repeat myself, or I swear, there will be trouble.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: WingNut ]

Och, my beloved Wingy! Och, laddie, I am weeping with joy to see you.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Marc ]

1) This strike, which unpaid moderaters are participating in puts the paid moderator Michelle in an impossibly awkward position. She is now being forced to potentially choose between her job and supporting the moderators. Additionally, this choice confronts her when choosing which Audra related threads close. For example, the "Audra got fired" thread in breaking news should be closed, but this could be constrewed as support for management.

2) Management is probably not even aware of the outrage babblers are feeling towards this whole situation. This whole thing has escalated into something very ugly in the span of about 8 hours, and they visit babble... not once every 8 hours.

3) Audra too, is being dragged into an awkward situation.

4) I'm beginning to wonder how badly babble is going to be damaged by this. If things got THIS bad in 1/2 a day.......

Hell, most unions serve a couple of days notice before going on strike. We aren't playing "house" here. Babble is at stake.

5) Don't make fun of my shitty wording please

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

quote:

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Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:

4) I'm beginning to wonder how badly babble is going to be damaged by this.

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Audra (and the gang) are basically volunteers even though they do get paid a pittance for the amount of bullshit they have to put up with. I can't imagine how Audra must feel having been here over the 5+ plus years watching this place grow and flourish only to have the carpet pulled out from under her. I can bet what once was a labour of love slowly turned into just plain labour. She has her whole life outside of babble/rabble that keeps he busy, I assume, and if the 'powers that be' had their heads screwed on properly they prolly would have noticed that she was tired/unchallenged/under paid and could have offered her a different position (or an out) that would allow her to stay on with renewed vigor.

I feel we should have given management at least a chance to respond before going on "strike". For Michelle's sake, Audra's sake, and rabble's sake. An online petition could have been organized, a deadline could have been set, other options could have been taken that would be more effective and less dangerous than this one. This action has been done in a most unprofessional manner, and no, the management being unprofessional does not justify us being unprofessional as well. Actual UNIONS serve some notice to thier bosses, BC unions served notice to Gordon Campbell. We should have served SOME notice to management here.

Audra obviously doesn't moderate anymore, Michelle is caught in a difficult position and every other moderator is on strike. We're in a state of near-anarchy here. We're looking at rabble being damaged, badly, possibly irreprably, and let's not kid ourselves, there is no other site we can go to or start up overnight.

[Clarify: Response to Skdadl]

[PS]

I don't want to see rabble/babble get destroyed, the moderators here don't want to see rabble/babble get destroyed and the management don't want to see babble get destroyed. And think of Audra for a second here, do we really want her thinking she was responsible for the destruction of the largest progressive website in Canada? A site that she helped to build? I don't want her in that position.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

quote:

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I feel we should have given management at least a chance to respond before going on "strike".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Norse of 60:
Is anyone set up to create/direct us to an alternate forum in the interm?

(No, not FD either)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doug:

Oh darn...I was sort of hoping we could punish both Rabble and them at the same time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Norse of 60:
...anyone had a look over 'there' to so if 'they' are on to this yet?

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Edited to correct caveman-like language. Warning: reading FD lowers your IQ.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Contrarian ]

quote:

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Is anyone set up to create/direct us to an alternate forum in the interm?

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uncharted.ca

I'm only posting on audra issues till Wednesday, and if this isn't resolved democratically, i'm outta here.

and i believe this can be resolved. mistakes were made, what joins us bigger than things that separate us, etc., ...

btw: this might be my last chance to complain that i sometimes try to change my text in word processors by using the html codes i learned on babble!

quote:

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Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
I know. That is exactly my point.

I feel we should have given management at least a chance to respond before going on "strike". For Michelle's sake, Audra's sake, and rabble's sake. An online petition could have been organized, a deadline could have been set, other options could have been taken that would be more effective and less dangerous than this one. This action has been done in a most unprofessional manner, and no, the management being unprofessional does not justify us being unprofessional as well. Actual UNIONS serve some notice to thier bosses, BC unions served notice to Gordon Campbell. We should have served SOME notice to management here.

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Well, yes, but that's different. They're actually employees. This isn't really quite the same, we aren't employees and the volunteer moderators are volunteers. Perhaps a more "organized" action will happen, once all the facts have been digested. But its not as if the volunteer moderators, and participants are under any real obligation to continue contributing or anything. I feel really bad for Michelle and everything, and she's clearly not to blame or anything. But the "management committee", and I as a more blue-ish member of this site find that corny and not very progressive, should know that they need to address this issue (in a non-spinning, and honest way) for the sake of keeping the quality of babble up, which btw is the whole point of this site for a lot of people.[edited for clarity]

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Vansterdam Kid ]

quote:

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Actual UNIONS serve some notice to thier bosses, BC unions served notice to Gordon Campbell. We should have served SOME notice to management here.

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My understanding is that rabble or one of its agents can terminate my ability to post here, any time they wish, without notice.

Also, what's the FULL story about Audra not submitting worksheets since November? Are we only hearing management's side of the story?

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Sean Cain ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sean Cain:
QUESTION: Who the hell is on this so-called "management committee" that fired Audra? Can they be contacted and asked to bring her back?

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quote:

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I think someone should go 'Donald Trump' on whomever was responsible for the decision and fire them.

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She insisted that babblers give it - even to those who may not have deserved it. And by doing so, she earned the respect of all babblers.

But not, apparently, the respect the the Management Committee ("Well, I wouldn't want to start unsubstantiated rumours about what a crappy job Audra's been doing lately. Oops! Was that aloud? I meant to say that Audra was an honourable woman.").

This general atmosphere of respect is one of the reasons why I don't mind occasionally playing the role of babble pinata. I've trusted the moderators, and if the only thing that was going on here was the passing of the baton from Audra to Michelle, there'd be no problem.

But it's not, so there is. The Management Committee's lack of respect towards someone who's earned it many times over does not bode well for babble's future.

So unless this plays out to the general satisfaction of babblers, this will be my last post here.

quote:

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Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
Actual UNIONS serve some notice to thier bosses, BC unions served notice to Gordon Campbell. We should have served SOME notice to management here.

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Actual unions serve notice 'cause laws have been written to wind us round and strangle us, make the whole process more manageable and bureaucratic and contained. Strikes used to work better when it was simply down tools and walk until the grievance was addressed. Well there's no law hereabouts to stop us from doing it that way, so let's.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: TheStudent ]

ETA: Solidarity Forever, written by Ralph Chaplin, is perhaps the most famous IWW song. It's sung to the tune of John Brown's Body.

Solidarity Forever

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
But the union makes us strong

Solidarity forever, Solidarity forever
Solidarity forever, for the union makes us strong!

We Shall Overcome

We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

Chorus:
Oh deep in my heart
I do believe
We shall overcome some day

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
It's after 7 pm here, no word from anyone representing management on the Great Babble Strike yet.

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To fire someone who was a large part of the success seems odd for sure.

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: eau ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sven:
Sooner or later, it was bound to come out on FD. I've popped over there a few times today to see if they had reared their ugly heads and noticed this unfortunte matter. The feeding frenzy has begun...

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[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

quote:

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Originally posted by beluga2:
Unlike Rabble management.

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
This site is fundamentally a healthy and functional community. We are going through a very tough time. Bad decisions have been made that cannot stand, but we'll come through it. We don't have to pay any mind to what another site says about us.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yossarian:
All true, but I fear my curiosity may get the better of me all the same....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Connie:
I truly am sorry to hear this. Politics aside, Audra has been a class act. We were even able to work together a few times when trolls were attacking both of our sites.

I wish you guys well in getting your message to the powers-that-be. I really hope they will reconsider.

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[ 11 April 2006: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]

Even if, as a contract employee, Audra is not entitled to progressive discipline where one faces a series of escalating penalites before termination I think rabble is morally obliged to at least meat the minimum standard we expect from employers when dealing with permanent employees (particularly given the fact that Audra's been here for five years).

[ 11 April 2006: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Connie:
OK. I'm gone. But, I think it's spelled homophoBia.

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Good catch. I can't argue with an expert on that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug:

Oh darn...I was sort of hoping we could punish both Rabble and them at the same time.

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ROFL!

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen Gordon:
I've been wondering why this bothered me as much as it did, and the answer can be summarised by one word: respect.

She insisted that babblers give it - even to those who may not have deserved it. And by doing so, she earned the respect of all babblers.

But not, apparently, the respect the the Management Committee ("Well, I wouldn't want to start unsubstantiated rumours about what a crappy job Audra's been doing lately. Oops! Was that aloud? I meant to say that Audra was an honourable woman.").

This general atmosphere of respect is one of the reasons why I don't mind occasionally playing the role of babble pinata. I've trusted the moderators, and if the only thing that was going on here was the passing of the baton from Audra to Michelle, there'd be no problem.

But it's not, so there is. The Management Committee's lack of respect towards someone who's earned it many times over does not bode well for babble's future.

So unless this plays out to the general satisfaction of babblers, this will be my last post here.

[Oh, stop cheering.]

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Solidarity, y'all!

Stephen, I for one do not want to see you go away. It's a pity that Rabble management would split up the Babble family the way it is doing.

So, please...stay. H*ck, if you'll stay I'll even answer that string of questions you asked me on the Economic Democracy thread....

For a world without bosses.

Forum members fapparently eel justified in attacking these boards, disrupting other topics, and calling those who choose to post "scabs" and strikebreakers.

Yet the person you're ostensibly doing this digital vandalism for the sake of has not asked for others to do this. So it seems hard to say that these actions are in "solidarity" with someone who has not asked for this kind of thing to happen.

Yes at first look it seems like the way Audra was fired was not ideal. But we hardly know all the facts, and people are getting very hostile and working themselves up over this.

This is not a strike. The "strikers" I see are mostly people who have generally not contributed anything to board other than their posts. How many of you now sp[ending your time to try and shut down this site have previously donated time or money to support it?

Why not try to help and find a solution instead of trying to destroy these forums?

We're talking about one person who worked 16 hours a week. She was probably earning around $15 an hour, so $250 a week. If 35 board members offered just $7 a week then Audra could be employed as moderator. Is this forum worth $7 a week to you? If 85 people donated $3 a week we'd get the same result.

Do you think running a site like this is some hugely profitable operation? I think not. Forums like this one typically have no paid moderators, just devoted volunteers. I don't see zillions of expensive banner ads running on this site.

quote:

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This is not a strike. The "strikers" I see are mostly people who have generally not contributed anything to board other than their posts. How many of you now sp[ending your time to try and shut down this site have previously donated time or money to support it?

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That one might get you some egg on your face.

And actually, I think a couple folks on strike write for rabble, do a podcast or are volunteer mods.

quote:

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Do you think running a site like this is some hugely profitable operation? I think not. Forums like this one typically have no paid moderators, just devoted volunteers. I don't see zillions of expensive banner ads running on this site.

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Uh, no we never thought that but thanks for being patronizing. The whole not for profit thing didn'tslip by unnoticed either.

quote:

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aybe if more people here donated some cash to this site they'd be able to afford more moderators.

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Perhaps, but that's never really been made to clear. So your maybes aren't really all that helpful to those of us that have been kicking around for years.

And really, do you think babble is here out of sheer altruism?

quote:

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Yet the person you're ostensibly doing this digital vandalism for the sake of has not asked for others to do this. So it seems hard to say that these actions are in "solidarity" with someone who has not asked for this kind of thing to happen.

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EDITED TO ADD: I remain optimistic that an acceptable resolution can be found here, but until that time I would encourage you to use the Babble Strike Forum for the same topic.

[ 12 April 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]