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Author Topic: German Greens back Afghan war
a lonely worker
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posted 03 December 2006 10:59 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems Greens around the worlds are drifting into just another neo-lib party with some warm fuzzy edges:

Opposition German Greens Back German Troops In Afghanistan

quote:
A bid to return Germany's opposition Greens party to the pacifist camp failed Sunday at a national party conference in the western city of Cologne, with delegates instead backing a continued presence by German peacekeepers in Afghanistan.

The party has its roots in the pacifist and environmentalist demonstrations that convulsed Germany a quarter of a century ago, but when the Greens were a junior government party from 1998 to 2005, they voted to send troops abroad.

Resolutions passed by the conference called for unspecified adjustments to German policy in Afghanistan and opposed moving German troops to the south to fight the Taliban. But a resolution demanding a withdrawal from Afghanistan failed to win a majority.

"We are responsible for the people of Afghanistan," said party co-leader Claudia Roth.

The Greens also called for a revival of efforts to pass a European Union constitution.

The Greens remained divided about whether they could contemplate entering a federal coalition with Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right Christian Democrats. They have not been invited to do so, but party strategists argue this should no longer be a taboo.


The Greens are quickly turning into the Liberals of the 21st century.


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 03 December 2006 11:57 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To use a more specific national analogy, these "Gruenen" would vote for war credits for the Kaiser.

Thanks a bunch, realos.


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 04 December 2006 10:07 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is Germany's role in Afghanistan? To shoot as many Taliban as possible like Canada, or being genuine peacekeepers?

I'm not happy at all with the attitude some German Greens are taking, feeling like they must be in cabinet in any government, including this funky left-right one. I don't get it. I think you can still effectively pressure the government enough to shift policy while in opposition, especially under a PR system where minority govts. are a guarantee.

[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 04 December 2006 04:16 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
What is Germany's role in Afghanistan? To shoot as many Taliban as possible like Canada, or being genuine peacekeepers?

How dare Germany send soldiers anywhere within a millennium of the horrors they committed against humanity?

And how can you even think that some European NATO armed forces could be acting as "genuine peacekeepers" in Afghanistan - unless you were joking and I just didn't get it?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Khimia
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posted 04 December 2006 04:59 PM      Profile for Khimia     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What is Germany's role in Afghanistan? To shoot as many Taliban as possible like Canada
Well what do you suggest Canada's Troops should do with the Taliban?

[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: Khimia ]


From: Burlington | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 04 December 2006 05:10 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well what do you suggest Canada's Troops should do with the Taliban?

What's a Taliban? Anyone who shoots at the Crusader armies.

What should Canada's Troops do? Go back to the doughnut shop and stfu.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 04 December 2006 05:21 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Um... for someone who doesn't know very much about the functions of NATO, the interaction between NATO and the UN on this issue, and is for some reason completely unable to know exactly what all the sarcastic posts actually mean...

...could somebody explain this as if I know squat about the issue? Because I really know squat about this issue. Well not squat, but not enough to understand the inside jokes.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 04 December 2006 05:25 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In all fairness to the "pro-democracy" side or those arguing for "peace keeping" in Afghanistan and sometimes both, I think we all know who the Taliban are and which nations in general were directly responsible for the Talibanization of Pakistan and Afghanistan during the 1980's and 90's. They aren't the Sandinistas by any comparison. As it was then, the Taliban aren't living on fresh air or anything resembling a desire for basic human rights as we understand them to be. Someone's paying the Taliban a bit more than Karzai's soldiers and police are receiving each month, apparently.

[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 04 December 2006 06:36 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The salient point is that things are just as repressive, especially for women(I mention this for those who constantly bring up the treatment of women in Afghanistan as a rationale for intervention)in the areas controlled by the pro-U.S. forces(the Northern Alliance et.al.,)as they are in Taliban areas.

NEITHER side is interested in anything remotely resembling freedom or justice. It's just about power.

[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
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posted 05 December 2006 08:21 AM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
The salient point is that things are just as repressive, especially for women(I mention this for those who constantly bring up the treatment of women in Afghanistan as a rationale for intervention)in the areas controlled by the pro-U.S. forces(the Northern Alliance et.al.,)as they are in Taliban areas.


[ 04 December 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


Do you have any evidence to back up this assertion? Apparently there are more women members in the Loyal Jirga than in the Canadian parliament. Not to suggest any comparability between the two countries regarding women's rights, but you are the first person I've heard make this improbable claim.


From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 05 December 2006 08:29 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
The salient point is that things are just as repressive, especially for women(I mention this for those who constantly bring up the treatment of women in Afghanistan as a rationale for intervention)in the areas controlled by the pro-U.S. forces(the Northern Alliance et.al.,)as they are in Taliban areas.

Ken, with respect because I know where you stand on these issues, what the hell difference does it make who is treating women (or blacks or LGBT or Jews or the disabled or animals or heritage buildings) "better" or "worse"? If a neutral study showed to our satisfaction that the Taliban treated women worse than the other pro-U.S. warlords, would that justify sending our troops? That is the question. Any other angle is grist to the mill of the Brett Manns of this world.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 05 December 2006 08:44 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brett, there ARE women in the Loyal Jirga. They face daily death threats from "pro-American" militias for daring to do so.

Other than a few blocks in downtown Kabul, there has been no such thing as "liberation" or "freedom" for anyone in post-Taliban Afghanistan.

Everyone there considers Karzai a joke. Just like Thieu(albeit with a cooler-looking outfit).


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

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