I's like to start this thread by saying that I believe the only hope for the world's genuine peace and security is the financial or even political collapse of the US resulting in their diminished ability to project military force abroad. I've read speculation (hope?) that the US might one day crumble just like the Soviet Union.

The US has been relentless in increasing the global reach of its military base system, and increasing the level of its military spending to the point that it now spends about as much on the military as all other nations of the world combined. Why the excessive fixation on militarism in the US? Simple - to be the dominating and controlling player on the world stage, and especially when it comes to oil, to use just one example. The Iraq conflict is all about oil despite denials to the contrary.

An earlier link: Will Iraq's Oil Blessing Become a Curse?

"Criticisms have also been levelled against the World Bank, where former US deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz is in charge. Wolfowitz has been accused of pushing a US agenda after opening a World Bank office in Baghdad."

That agenda is getting Iraq oil.

I think the new US imperialism we see today had its origins in The New American Century (remember that neocon document?) although imperialism and colonialism has been a constant throughout US history.

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I's like to start this thread by saying that I believe the only hope for the world's genuine peace and security is the financial or even political collapse of the US resulting in their diminished ability to project military force abroad. I've read speculation (hope?) that the US might one day crumble just like the Soviet Union. -Boom Boom

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I would venture to suggest that within a decade, the US will find in China a formidable counter-weight. Furthermore, the US will wake up to the reality that it could not keep taking Europe as a granted unconditional ally which, for instance, did not go beyond expressing unease when the imperial power flouted the Security COuncil and invaded Iraq.

[ 01 January 2007: Message edited by: sidra ]

The US is the nation with the greatest nuclear capability and the readiness to use it, now, under Bush, whenever it sees fit. The US contributes more to carbon dioxide emissions leading to global warming than any other and has become the greatest obstacle to addressing global warming and the world’s growing environmental problems.

"I believe the only hope for the world's genuine peace and security is the financial or even political collapse of the US"

That is a misplaced hope. The US represents western civilization. While the US may be the outward appearance of militarism and domination, that appearance could be substituted by any number of other nations including China. Before the US, the primary face of western imperialism was Britain. But there have been other empires and imperialist forces as well.

The point is that empire is an extension, a necessary extension, of civilization. Civilizations are by their nature extractive. They subsume other societies and civilizations through negotiation or force in order to obtain their resources to fuel continued growth because static empires wither and die. For civilizations to grow, they must expand and to expand they need to be able to project military force.

Western civilization is a global civilization. On a planetary system, human civilization has reached its zenith. There are no lands left to conquer or large treasures of resources to be discovered and pillaged. When US civilization enters decay, which I believe we are witnessing and which has been vastly accelerated through the misadventures of the irresponsible and corrupt Bush Gang, it is, in fact, Western civilization as a whole, that is in decay.

As much as I believe it must and will occur, I would also caution that we be careful what we wish for. Giants do not fall lightly.

[ 01 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

...As much as I believe it must and will occur, I would also caution that we be careful what we wish for. Giants do not fall lightly.

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
I'm thinking specifically of the Latin America regions, can't recall where else the US has done this.

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:

Do other countries do this? Maybe the former USSR prior to collapse, and the UK, Spain, and Portugal during colonializing times.

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I believe someone will come and tell us that the Soviets were guilty as hell with the "invasion of Afghanistan" in 1979. And they will tell us that the elections which put the Soviet-backed PDPA government in place were rigged and therefore illegitimate. Wilf Day posted some links to the voting irregularities prior to the U.S.-backed Karzai government coming to power. I don't believe this government is any more legit than the PDPA government and probably even less so.

Of course, the Soviets were chided for walking into Czechoslovakia and Hungary. And they'll tell us the Soviets overstayed their welcome in Eastern Europe after liberating those countries from Nazi occupation. And this is exactly what the west did with countries like Japan and South Korea after the war.

American empire, and with the aid of its capitalist country allies, propped up some 36 of the most brutal right-wing dictatorships as well as failed attempts at dictatorships in the last century, from Belgian colonialism to Syngman Rhee to Chiang Kai-Shek to Fulgencio Batista and his secret police to Papa and baby Doc Duvalier and the dreaded ton-ton macoutes in Port Au Prince. Some of the worst of the worst graduates of the School of the Americas are still free as blue jays to roam the earth on these glorious first days of 2007.

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Now, probably this was answered somewhere in the past day or two, but what's the best opposition to imperialism?

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The US has supported oppressive dictators Marcos in the Philippines and Saddam in Iraq. Geez, I'm just waking up.

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The list is much longer. The US has overthrown several governments, some that were elected, some not, in the last 100 years. Sometimes with direct force, but most of the time using covert agencies like the CIA:

Nicaragua in the 1930s
Cuba in the 1930s
Vietnam in the 1950s
Guatemala, 1955
Honduras, 1980s
Dominican Republic, 1965
Iran, 1953
Chile, 1973
Grenada, 1983
Panama, 1989
Irak, 1963 (with the help of a guy called Saddam Hussein)
Irak, 2003
Haiti, 2005
Afghanistan, 2001

They are also on record for supporting some very unsavory regimes like the Philippines under Marcos, Haiti with the Duvaliers, the Colonels in Greece, Suharto's Indonesia, Mobutu's Zaire, 1970s military regimes in Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, etc.

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Originally posted by duncan cameron:
One of the best sources for the record of American imperialism can be consulted here.
http://www.killinghope.org/
People will be astonished to see how extensive the record of military interventions by U.S. forces is, and how far back it goes.

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Ah, the indexed rundown of Killing Hope mentions some that I had no idea and, or, forgotten about.

I don't know how valid the web site, Meet the Friendly Dictators would be considered as a source. But they mention the usual dictators most of us know about already. And then they make some very controversial claims about western corporations and capitalists doing business with Nazi Germany legally by way of a presidential order granting licences to do so. Apparently while Henry Ford was given the nod to make tanks for Hitler, American aid to German Jewry was cut off because of trading with the enemy laws.

I did a series of courses in Liberation Theology at Trinity at the end of the 70s, and much of our material dealt with US imperialism. I still have most of it. Much of it deals with the emergence of the theology of liberation in Latin America - and gives the history of imperialism and colonialism. From the first prophets in Latin America, the evangelization of Mexico and Peru, the Bourbon Decadence, the Martyr bishops, colonial Christendom, to the modern era - Medellin (1968), coups d'etat in Brazil and Peru, the dialetical categories of dominator and dominated, cultural conditioning, economic conditioning, political conditioning, and religious conditioning.

From the preface to History And The Theology of Liberation (Enrique Dussel, 1976):

"The United States is confronted with an enormous responsibility, namely, that of being an imperial nation exercising worldwide domination. This status at one time may have seemed like an accomplishment of "good sense"; it now involved the contradiction of continuing to be all-powerful.

The Vietnam debacle, Watergate, the oil crisis have created a certain level of consciousness, of guilt. The theology of liberation is the protest of dominated peoples. As such it can provide a certain clarity with regard to the causes of this guilt".

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]

p30
DAVID BARSAMIAN: With the U.S. economy deteriorating and with more layoffs, how is the Bush administration going to maintain what some are calling a garrison state with permanent war and occupation of numerous countries? How are they going to pull it off?

What happened to the Liberation Theology movement?

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

Sabeel is an ecumenical grassroots liberation theology movement among Palestinian Christians. Inspired by the life and teaching of Jesus Christ, this liberation theology seeks to deepen the faith of Palestinian Christians, promote unity among them, and lead them to social action.

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
p44 (same link as above):

The real threat to U.S. military power is nuclear proliferation, because if every little country has nuclear weapons it becomes very tricky for the United States to engage in military action.

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A right-wing radiovangelist told his listening audience recently that we can expect upwards of 30 countries with nukes before very long. I have no idea whether that could be true or not. But it does sound scary to me. Don't ask me why I listen to right-wing radio occasionally. It's an odd habit for a lefty, I know. Jesus was a commie.

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by Fidel:
American empire, and with the aid of its capitalist country allies, propped up some 36 of the most brutal right-wing dictatorships . . . Belgian colonialism . . .

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Thanks, Boom Boom. May I ask what motivated you to take the courses in Toronto ?. I think you were in Ottawa for several years with the feds, and then finished graduate studies at some point, if I'm not mistaken.

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Originally posted by duncan cameron:
One of the best sources for the record of American imperialism can be consulted here.
http://www.killinghope.org/

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If you scroll down to the bottom of that link, you will see "Irreverent Observations".

here's one of them:

"Contrary to the image of Bill Clinton as a draft-dodging anti-war protester in the 60s, it seems, instead, that he was actually informing on his "fellow" protesters and Fulbright scholars in
Europe for the CIA. Roger Morris, former National Security Council official, reports on this in his book Partners in Power.

The world economy has exponentially outgrown the supply of gold. Without trust in fiat currency, there may be very bad days ahead for anyone who does not have unencumbered tangible assets.

It is not only the unrestrained printing of fiat currency, (Hello,Mr. Bernanke) but also that the issuance of gold and silver certificates has outstripped even the slightest possibility of any redemption if there was ever a run on said certificates. Then add in the derivatives market which make Mr. Bernanke's printing presses pale by comparison.

Be careful of what you wish for...you may get it. The weak and vulnerable will be the first, followed by anyone else who cannot sustain themselves.

It is not about bringing about the collapse of a system, that is the conciet of the adventurer types. No the real revolutionary is about damage control and harm prevention, not retaliation.

People need to create cohesive social organizations which will protect their interests when the going gets tough.

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by duncan cameron:
One of the best sources for the record of American imperialism can be consulted here.
http://www.killinghope.org/
People will be astonished to see how extensive the record of military interventions by U.S. forces is, and how far back it goes.

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"From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair."

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
An Anti-Imperialist's Reading List

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Paranoia - the same fears that lead Americans to own guns fuel the perceived need for a massive military. In the US view, the world is irredemably hostile and dangerous and filled with ill intent. This becomes a self-perpetuating belief, as American actions create the hostility they were intended to defend against. And of course, it's always the thief who is afraid people are going to steal from him.

Supremacism - America is the best, no questions allowed. When one sees the world this way, it is very difficult to concieve respect for other cultures, and therefore to know them.

The Democrats signalled they will increase defense spending; BMD will enjoy a 60% bump, and some 70,000 Indian techs and scientists will be hired to fill the shortfall in the program.

The USN will be a big winner, too. Littoral ships for the war on terror, and new fighters for the carrier groups..at prices that might finally cause someone at the Pentagon to blush.

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Originally posted by nister:

- snip of a great post -

What's their endgame?

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Originally posted by Cueball:
You see my friend this is where you miss the point. The role of the revolutionary is not to bring about, or cheer the collapse of the old order, but to help create the new from the ashes of the old.

It is not about bringing about the collapse of a system, that is the conciet of the adventurer types. No the real revolutionary is about damage control and harm prevention, not retaliation.

People need to create cohesive social organizations which will protect their interests when the going gets tough.

[ 02 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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No, I didn't miss the point. I'm well aware of the fact that the real revolutionary is increasingly marginalised by the sheer weight of events.
The widening gap between rich and poor is no accident. The exponential increase in the world economy as a result of globalisation will benefit only a small percentage of the world population. Lower birth rates and an ageing population in Western democracies will result in decreased quality of life.

The real revolutionary better get with the program because time is of the essence. Whether it is the privatisation of public services,the selling of public assets for private profit, lack of access to health or education, the real revolutionary isn't getting far.

It isn't just the greed in the business world, selling a promise on a piece of paper that is not supported by a tangible asset for someone else's tangible asset, it is also the fact that various governments,spurred on by globalisation, are selling or long term leasing out tangible public assets at fire sale prices in exchange for intangible short term political capital.

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Well, my focus has always been building grass roots organization, not, although this may seem counter to my Babble persona, endless theorizing. More to the point it is my view that people have to be organized when the shit hits the fan.

I do not consider the NDP to be such an organization.

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Yes, when the shit hits the fan, not if. I'm an optimist,not given to doomsday theories of collapse but as a businessman, I cannot ignore indicators of strain in the fabric of society.

I believe it was Harry Truman who said only one handed economists could be trusted because they couldn't say: "on the other hand". Whatever scenario eventually comes to pass, Canada's continual reliance on commodities export and failure to address productivity issues is a recipe for disaster.

The productivity of the country as a whole must be addressed by increasing education, access to opportunity and quality of life in order to allow more Canadians to participate in the economy. Relying on immigration without increasing the productivity of the present population merely compounds the problem.

I guess the point that I am trying to make is that it is important not to get caught up in lofty ideologically founded idealist conceptions, such as Leninism but more to focus on concrete practical solutions.

[ 03 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
When, then.

I guess the point that I am trying to make is that it is important not to get caught up in lofty ideologically founded idealist conceptions, such as Leninism but more to focus on concrete practical solutions.

[ 03 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Stop unnecessary spending, get rid of debt, invest a percentage of your liquidity in gold or silver bullion that you physically have in your possession( bullion bars do not carry the premium price one must pay for them but may be difficult to sell without assay while coins such as the Canadian Maple Leaf are easily sold).

Become as independent as possible. Tangible assests such as arable land,even a garden plot are of more importance than intangibles such as currency or financial paper. Invest in a renewable power supply-solar,wind.

I'm not doom-mongering, but be prudent and make life choices that will help to ensure future quality of life. Make a small periodic investment in a gold coin or two. If there ever is a market collapse, this bullion hoard can be utilised to buy necessities when currency inflates dramatically. Be practical and protect your family.

I,personally don't envision a collapse of security or safety services but government will not be able to provide for its citizens whether it be a health pandemic or depression.

Under the direction of the resident genius, the 800 billion dollar deficit is growing at 40 billion dollars per month. The fuel for the US economy's engine is provided by a rampant devil may care consumerism that has developed in the US after 9/11. If the US consumer retrenches into traditional savings and stops living for the moment, there will be no soft landing.

And the Soviets were busy at the time with CIA operation Cyclone in Afghanistan. These were the years that Talibanization of Pakistan and Afghanistan took place. The rise of militant Islam in Central Asia was funded by the CIA, Brits, and Saudi princes. Pakistan, ruled then by an illegit militia government under General Zia ul-Haq, was being used as a base for proxy war against the Soviet-backed PDPA. The most ruthless of the CIA-funded extremists tore Afghanistan apart from stern to stem after the Soviet pullout in 1989.

Even though the Yanks had pin-pointed every weapons cache and military installation in Iraq leading up to it, I think the Russians were amazed with the swift and terrible manner that Iraq was invaded. The corporate cabal was focused on Iraqi oil for a number of years. The Russians(and N Korea?) nuked-up as a result. Going by Jerry West's comments weeks ago, I think the Russians, as well as Saudi's, perhaps Kuwaiti royals, have been funding the Taliban. It seems strange to me, but this is what Scottish journalists claim they were told by a former Taliban government official from somewhere inside Afghanistan. Several member countries of the Shanghai Co-operation Organization don't want the U.S. in Central Asia. At least not militarily.

As a result of shadow government maneuvering in Latin America over the years, not many of those countries want into AFTA agreements with the US, Canada, and Mexico. The EU doesn't have a similar problem with developing countries wanting membership in the European Union block of trading nations.

[ 03 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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This last is absolutely true. This is why everyone is so appalled at the fact that they took the leap themselves

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Never underestimate American hubris.

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
I's like to start this thread by saying that I believe the only hope for the world's genuine peace and security is the financial or even political collapse of the US resulting in their diminished ability to project military force abroad. I've read speculation (hope?) that the US might one day crumble just like the Soviet Union.

Comments?

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On a tangent, I would appreciate if anyone can back me up on something I bookmarked, then lost: Medics in Iraq are enjoined from treating Iraqis except to prevent loss of life or limb.

Currently under construction are a fleet of used 747's being rebuilt into aerial laser weapons systems. Lasers the diameter of basketballs will be shot whenever enemy missiles are launced - anywhere in the world - and the heat from the lasers will cause those missiles to explode, and then rain down on whoever fired them.

Additionally, these 747s, which are being completely stripped of regular wiring and a/c systems and then built to accomodate the massive new missile detection and laser warfare components, will be airborne constantly, being re-fueled in midair, and will spy over all territory the US considers hostile or not onside in the war against terror.

They can have the best airplanes and missiles and navy in the world, but a terrorist, or a state, could just send in bombs on containers, or on civilian airplanes or in a sailboat. Nobody is checking every little 30' yacht that arrives in any port, and I'm sure a bomb could be fit into one of those. And they can be operated remotely.

Meanwhile the US is totally dominating the wrong sphere of violence.

That said, I doubt anyone will blow up a US port. More likely, and more effective, China and the other states that are carrying the US debt will call in their markers, the US dollar will collapse, and nobody will sell them oil anymore because they won't have the money.

Of course, the rest of us will go down with them, but for up and comers like China, they will have a much better chance of coming out on top if they take out the big guy and wreak havoc on world financial markets first.

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Originally posted by arborman:
...Meanwhile the US is totally dominating the wrong sphere of violence.

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