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Author Topic: Too bad, dude! You got a Dell...
Hephaestion
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posted 24 December 2005 05:34 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hope nobody bought one'a these for someone on their Christmas list...

quote:
Dell recalls 1,500 notebook computer batteries due to overheating

Computer retailer Dell Inc. is recalling about 1,500 notebook computer batteries sold in Canada, citing overheating that may pose a fire risk.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Andrew_Jay
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posted 24 December 2005 11:03 PM      Profile for Andrew_Jay        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seeing how they sell about 150,000 computers a day (and more around Christmas time), it seems that their quality control is normally (and even in this case) pretty impressive. Then again, it's 1,500 out of the computers sold here, so that's not that hot.
From: Extremism is easy. You go right and meet those coming around from the far left | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 12:13 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, *another* good reason to avoid Dell is that, according to the "Buy Blue" website (the one that tracks political donations by corporations) 100% of Dell's political contributions go to the Republicans.

I would make do with an abacus and a chalk board before I gave Dell the sweat off my balls, let alone a nickle of my money. Fuck them.

[ 25 December 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 25 December 2005 12:35 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dell makes shitty expensive computers. Why wait a month for some overpriced crap, when you could build your own with better components for wayyyyy less in a couple of hours? I never understand this. There needs to be more web guides, or something. PCs are like lego.
From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 04:51 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:

Dell makes shitty expensive computers.


Even worse than that -- they are supporters of George Bush. BOYCOTT DELL!

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 25 December 2005 05:06 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
Dell makes shitty expensive computers. Why wait a month for some overpriced crap, when you could build your own with better components for wayyyyy less in a couple of hours? I never understand this. There needs to be more web guides, or something. PCs are like lego.

I know I could build a better computer for the same or less. I also know that my mother would not be able to. See, if you're an enthusiast, then by all means build your own with components from ten different sources and using some other parts you had laying around. But if you are not entirely savvy and just want a complete package (with better tech support than any manufacturer warranty), then buying from Dell makes a lot more sense. Particularily if you're going for a notebook, which you generally buy as a single unit anyways.

So if you're willing and able to do your homework, then go ahead. But don't expect the average person to want to and be able to do the same. I've used both custom built and Dell systems over the past few years, and don't really have anything bad to say about any of them.

Besides, I like to hear about the recall- means they found the problem and dealt with it rather than sweeping it under the rug...


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Makwa
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posted 25 December 2005 06:08 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
But if you are not entirely savvy and just want a complete package (with better tech support than any manufacturer warranty), then buying from Dell makes a lot more sense. Particularily if you're going for a notebook, which you generally buy as a single unit anyways.
Hey, that sounds like a slogan! Great marketing, I can imagine the jingle - 'not entirely savvy - need a complete package' da da da. Yeah, my mother couldn't do it either, but she doesn't need a PC. I think you underestimate people. With the right instructions (not just pieces lying around, but kits) most people could put a PC together. Just like IKea. In fact, lets start a do-it yourself PC store, IDea. Don't be so dismissive - people can be smarter than you think - they've just been trained to believe that they'll 'break it' or something, or that they are helpless unless they are 'experts'. That's why tech support is often so nasty.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 25 December 2005 07:14 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For people who don't want to put their own system together, there are still:

other companies
local stores who put system together
local nerds who will be happy to advise you and put it together for a modest charge.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 25 December 2005 07:25 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
Hey, that sounds like a slogan! Great marketing, I can imagine the jingle - 'not entirely savvy - need a complete package' da da da. Yeah, my mother couldn't do it either, but she doesn't need a PC. I think you underestimate people. With the right instructions (not just pieces lying around, but kits) most people could put a PC together. Just like IKea. In fact, lets start a do-it yourself PC store, IDea. Don't be so dismissive - people can be smarter than you think - they've just been trained to believe that they'll 'break it' or something, or that they are helpless unless they are 'experts'. That's why tech support is often so nasty.

Let's assume most people could put together their own computers with, say, several hours of effort.

Most people would say, "Why"?

People could put together their own cars, too (iCarDea), and build their own house (iHomeDea). But, they don't...and they won't...because it doesn't make any sense to do that (people would be spending all of their time making things for themselves).

Same with 'puters.

If certain people want to do that, great. But, 99% of people do not want to do it.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Andrew_Jay
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posted 25 December 2005 01:20 PM      Profile for Andrew_Jay        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
100% of Dell's political contributions go to the Republicans.
Would 100% donations going to the Democrats really be that much better? I doubt Dell donates to the Republicans because they hate gays, hate the environment, hate foreigners, etc. Republican economic policies probably just make the most sense for them from a business viewpoint, and I can't really blame them since it seems that it's always the Democrats who are getting riled up about "outsourcing" etc.

From: Extremism is easy. You go right and meet those coming around from the far left | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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posted 25 December 2005 01:44 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, Sven hit the nail on the head. There's just no reasonable justification for having everyone build their computers. A single person, using a single set of parts, furthermore, cannot properly do QA testing on the system. And, yes, companies like Dell do proper QA. Sometimes motherboards and RAM are just plain glitchy. If you get a motherboard with some lousy capacitors, bring it home and find your system unstable, what do you, without a proper testbed do? What does your grandmother do, if she's in this situation? Unless you've got spare RAM and CPUs to switch in to see if it's the board or it's the RAM or it's the thermal paste not making a proper contact with the heatsink or it's something else, and unless you can eliminate possibilities, you're stuck with a glitchy system.

Building your own system is only useful as a learning experience or for the sake of reusing parts. I've 'built' (more like 'cobbled') all my systems because I generally only need to replace at most a couple parts at a time (e.g., at worst, the CPU and mobo). And building systems is a necessary skill if you don't want to upgrade your parts all at once.

But for other users, distributors will sell you a package deal for less than the sum total of the cost of the parts if you pick the right package, or in some places, even if you pick any package. The two computer stores I tend to deal with in Toronto chop a certain percentage of the total cost of a full system built to specifications (absolutely anything they have in inventory). So you pay more to build it yourself.

And despite what some of you may think, no, you cannot build a system far cheaper and far better than Dell, because Dell doesn't pay the same prices for their OEM parts that you do. So they can put a system on sale, and make a profit, and a lower price than you can ever hope to get the same parts for. Now you may be able to build a system with crappy parts cheaper than Dell or your local computer shop can build a system with good parts. And that could be advantageous from a price point of view. But that's quite a different case.


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 25 December 2005 02:06 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Andrew_Jay--

Gee, might as well buy it at Wal-Mart while you're at it, too, eh? Nothing Matters And So What If It Did?™

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
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posted 25 December 2005 02:23 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Laptops are a little different than desktops. They're not something that someone typically would build from off the shelf parts.

In my case, I travel so much that weight and size are of paramount importance. Obviously I need power as well but if the machine weighs more than a couple of pounds it's useless from my point of view. I broke down bought a Vaio - weighs in at about 2.75 pounds with a 1.2 Gig clock speed.

The guy accross the hall bought a Dell - same logic but he's had too many problems with Sony products and the Dell was by far the best fit for his needs.

Yst is right, Dell (or any of the majors for that matter) can build a system for far less than you can - I've actually tried to let one of my local vendors supply us with machines in the office (we're full of HP Vectras) but he can't compete. The corporate discount we get means we can actually purchase machines and have them delivered to the office for less than his price at the factory.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 25 December 2005 02:28 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A lot of laptop parts now are, though, off-the-shelf available, at least for Intellian laptops. The laptop I am currently using is constructed from off-the-shelf parts aside from the frame and monitor itself.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
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posted 25 December 2005 04:27 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mandos,

Quick question - how big is it and what does it weigh?


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Mandos
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posted 25 December 2005 10:04 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Regular laptop size, lighter than average for its features, I think. Don't have stats.

By "off the shelf", I mean "off the shelf laptop components". There is, in fact, a growing industry of commodity laptop components. These aren't PC components. Already I think laptop CD/DVD players/writers are usually in a standard form excluding Apple.

It's still much less widespread than generic PC components though.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
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posted 25 December 2005 10:18 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mandos,

If you can match or beat these specs I'll happily try building something next time (I actually have last year's model). The best test of battery life - my kids watched movies virtually all the way from Toronto to Vancouver on our last ski trip with shared headsets and it didn't run down. A slightly easier test, I did spreadsheet work all the way to London and didn't run out of power.

It is slower than my own desktop (almost keeps up with the office machine) but portability is the key here.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 25 December 2005 11:09 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My father in law (in philly) likes to build computers for family members. He uses a case called 'trademark' and gets good parts to put in it. This year his daughter was talking to someone who said "ive never heard of trademark so it must be crap' so instead of getting it from her dad (who gets the parts wholesale and usually doesnt charge anything) she went and got a dell.
This is the same one that bought a hummer H2 by the way, if that explains anything (though her house built into a hill is good)

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abnormal
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posted 25 December 2005 11:51 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By the way, does anyone have any suggestions for a serious high end gaming machine. I do want to buy one and have been seriously looking at the top end Dells. I'm not willing to spring for Alienware or Voodoo even those two are without a doubt the best of the best (try $10,000 US for the box alone - nonsense numbers for a toy) but I'm wondering what else there is out there.

I've looked a lot of machines on Cnet and Dell seems to be the best available option.

As an observation, we run our corporate IT through a consulting firm and they can get me a 20% discount on Dell machines.

[ 25 December 2005: Message edited by: abnormal ]


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radiorahim
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posted 26 December 2005 12:45 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For corporate IT departments who buy in bulk and chuck their machines every three years it probably does make sense to buy "name brand" machines.

Likewise its much the same for home users who aren't that tech-savvy to buy the name brand boxes...but be prepared to "chuck and replace" every few years.

But if you're a "do it yourselfer" or have the interest to become a DIY'er...yeah the whitebox "clone" route is definitely the way to go. You may or may not "save" money in the short run, but in the long run I think you do. You can do a few minor hardware upgrades along the way and put-off buying a new machine for awhile.

Of course you have to "time" your upgrades just "right" i.e. when the upgrades are in the "discount" bin.

Actually...posting from a Dell box today...hmmm this 2.8 Gig P4 running WinXP isn't much faster than my K6II-400 running Linux.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 26 December 2005 01:57 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by abnormal:
By the way, does anyone have any suggestions for a serious high end gaming machine.

AMD Athlon 64x2's beat the Intels on every benchmark I have seen, even though their clock speed is considerably lower. Dell only sells Intel processors. If you're also buying a monitor, a mouse, a keyboard, speakers, etc. then you will pay more. But you could probably get higher performance by going with an AMD processor.

quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
Don't be so dismissive - people can be smarter than you think

My experience working in tech support begs to differ.

From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 26 December 2005 02:58 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Discovered why this Dell box is so slow after running Spybot S&D and a quick google.

Dell pre-installs adware on its machines (yuk)...or at least the "Dimension" line for home use. Well guess there's another reason to go the clone route

Here's an interesting article I found:

article

quote:
We have learned from numerous sources that Dell is pre-installing MyWay Speedbar or MyWebSearch on its new Dimension desktop and Inspiron laptop computers. Worse, it's trying to make customers believe that this is an "enhancement". In this case the term "enhancement" is a not a euphemism, it's flat-out prevarication. A search bar (like MyWebSearch) that shows you one and a half screens of advertisements disguised as relevant search results is no "enhancement". And setting your home page to their MyWay start page and making it difficult for you to change it, is no benefit to you, and certainly not an "enhancement".

My Spybot S&D scan found these critters on this machine.


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abnormal
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posted 26 December 2005 03:04 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Dell is pre-installing MyWay Speedbar or MyWebSearch on its new Dimension desktop

I removed them from my home machine - I didn't realize they had been factory installed, just figured I'd been someplace I shouldn't.


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radiorahim
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posted 26 December 2005 06:00 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not all anti-spyware/adware programmes will label these Dell pre-installed programmes as malware.

For instance Lavasoft's Ad-Aware did not label them as such. The folks at Lavasoft seem to be caving into complaints from the software industry about labelling stuff adware/spyware.

However Spybot Search & Destroy does label Dell's junkware as such. Spybot S&D is freeware...but the guy who does it asks for donations to keep him going and I think that's quite fair.

BTW to be fair, Dell is not the only computer hardware manufacturer to have problems. IBM had a class action suit against it for a series of bad hard drives...and I read in a recent issue of "Maximum PC" that E-machines has been having problems with their notebook machines overheating and crashing.


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Andrew_Jay
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posted 26 December 2005 09:47 PM      Profile for Andrew_Jay        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Gee, might as well buy it at Wal-Mart while you're at it, too, eh? Nothing Matters And So What If It Did?™
Hey, they make a fine product. Fortunately my laptop wasn't involved in the recall, so that's another plus.

From: Extremism is easy. You go right and meet those coming around from the far left | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 26 December 2005 11:16 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
... as long as you're happy, Andrew. That's all that matters...
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Andrew_Jay
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posted 28 December 2005 12:30 PM      Profile for Andrew_Jay        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
... as long as you're happy, Andrew. That's all that matters...
See, now you're starting to talk sense: yeah, I am happy with the product that I bought with the money that I earned.

Plus; it certainly helps that I have no reason to suspect Dell of any abhorent illegal or unethical conduct. Rather, I have cause to believe that they're actually doing a pretty good job in that department; along with HP and IBM and the Electronics Industry Code of Conduct that they have put together for themselves and their suppliers.


From: Extremism is easy. You go right and meet those coming around from the far left | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 28 December 2005 01:46 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew_Jay:
yeah, I am happy with the product that I bought with the money that I earned.
See, that kind of conformity and lack of critical thinking is what got the wintel thieves into the near planetary monopoly they are in now. PC's, despite the disdain for the average user, are still like lego. Not only is it generally cheaper (yes using good parts from a non-box-store supplier - go online) to build your own, it's fun, takes an afternoon, and after that, you are no longer a microserf. Digital information should be freed from the massive retailers - how is it that those who wish to be freed from capitalist excess in so much of their lives are willing to capitulate when it comes to that scary little box with the keys on it? C'mon, personal computing was to free us, not further make us peons. Give up the megopoly!! Trash Dell!! Do like Second City TV, and send them off the balcony (make sure no one is below).

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
CHCMD
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posted 28 December 2005 01:54 PM      Profile for CHCMD   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 26 May 2006: Message edited by: CHCMD ]


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Loretta
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posted 30 December 2005 02:48 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For those who might be interested in how Dell treats its customers when they encounter a problem, I can tell you that from our experience that their customer service (once they had the money) was appalling. This happened about 6 months ago.

They sent us a completely different computer than the one we ordered (worth considerably less with none of the features we ordered). When we first brought it to their attention and gave them the serial number on the computer (as opposed to the one on the invoice, which was what we had ordered), they told us that there was no such computer and then accused us of switching computers. We eventually shipped the computer back and it took two and a half months of persistent calling ("I can't find your records, the credit will be applied to your card in 2 days, we haven't received the return....) before we got our money back.

There are many links to others who have had poor dealings from Dell. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone on this basis and now that I know they contribute to the Republicans, I will have more reason to warn folks away.


From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 30 December 2005 03:16 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CHCMD:
poo
Tee hee. You said 'poo.'

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged

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