However, for those not in the 'know' of the history of missile defense, the Russians already have one. Way back in the day they set up rings of ABM installations around major cities (although I think only Moscow is operational right now). But this is where it is crucial. Their missile defense system is totally defensive. It does not degrade the enemy's ability to destroy them - it limits the destructive capability that they have in obliterating a city of 10 million+. The US system, although called 'defense', is probably one of the most innovative offensive weapon system designs ever.

It is purely high tech, providing a testing ground for various American allies to watch and learn. Japan is currently working with the MDA to develop a somewhat indigenous defense system, similar to the Arrow that the Israelis developed from exposure to the Patriot. Now, the Israelis are developing 'David's Sling'. Not much surface and readily accessible information is available for this yet. Merely the announcement that it is being developed (which means it is deep into the development cycle and probably being tested on a limited basis) and the name. This is where it is important to note that the American ABM system is offensive. It doesn't defend, it degrades predictable response capabilities. Will it really end up saving that many American lives? No, not really. The system is limited and in the event of a nuclear war with the big players - Russia is the only other big player out there - they have ways of overcoming it. However, it can theoretically completely stop theatrical ballistic missile launches against American troops. And, as mentioned in the previous thread, no one has anything like it. This allows the Americans to have a theoretical edge on the battlefield and use ballistic missiles as a horrifying artillery barrage.

But this is what is scary about all of this. It is all theory. Remembering, industrialized war and naval dominance was all theory and people were itching to really give it a test before WW1.

Weapons race bad.

eta:: previous thread

[ 18 August 2008: Message edited by: Papal Bull ]

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Originally posted by jrootham:
The other thing about anti missile systems is they don't work.

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Precisely. And in order to ensure that some missiles do escape missile shield, the enemy has to build more missiles armed with nuclear warheads capable of causing megadeath and megadestruction.

Is there anything about this picture that isn't clear as an unmuddied stream next to a military facility manufacturing weapons grade plutonium for the new colder war?

[ 18 August 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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popfro: If the missiles that are being defended against are supposedly coming from Iran, why is the defence being deployed in Poland, rather than Turkey or even Iraq?

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from the previous thread ...

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Russia's ambassador to NATO has compared the U.S. missile defense system to "a dead cat," since its effectiveness can only be verified as a result of reciprocal thermonuclear missile strikes.

"The Europeans have received a 'dead cat' from the Americans," Dmitry Rogozin said, commenting on the U.S.-Polish missile-defense deal, signed Thursday.

He said that if the threat really came from Iran, as the U.S. says it does, it would be more "logical to deploy U.S. missile defense elements on NATO's southern flanks - in Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania."

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Furthermore

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Rogozin said that by signing the agreement with the United States, Poland has effectively confirmed that Russia is the focus of the missile shield.

"The Poles should be thanked for helping reveal the strategic goal of the U.S. missile defense plan," Dmitry Rogozin said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Putin offered leased land in Azerbaijan for US-ABM as an alternative site. That location would be more strategic for bringing down non-existent Iranian missiles than Eastern Europe. The hawks stuttered and stammered and then refused. Get your cold war on ... again.

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Exactly, the Dr.Strangelove is reinvented... for the newer generation.

How those missiles can be seen as defensive is a bit hard to grasp, as they are 1) in the middle of freaking Europe, and 2) next to Russian borders.

Back on Caucasus track. It is interesting to see in which direction Azeri Prince-President Ilkham Aliyev(who replaced his autocratic dad Geydar),
will take his country.
Azerbaijan has a strategic relevance right now, and they must be aware of it.
With BTC pipeline pumping oil from Baku, they may test American 'generosity' and ask for military aid for war against Armenia.
But with renewed Russia that showed its teeth in defending its allies, this could be a very wrong move.
In any case, Russia, contrary to prejudice, has enjoyed decent relations with the three Kaukazian nations in the 'new era'.

Anyway, it seems that the new Polish government - PM Tusk and foreign minister Sikorski are pragmatics. In contrast with Russia-hating conservative President Kaczynski.

Sikorski have been holding off the missile deal for months, it seems. Its possible that this deal is some kind of a gamble aimed at Russia, which can be reversed after.
It could have something to do with the gas pipeline which Russia attempts to build in bypass of Polish territory.
Anyway, here's my analysis, but be warned its a bit on the optimistic side. I dont want to see Russia and Poland at war.
Nor do I want NATO placing its violent stranglehold on Russia, and continuing its bloated, pointless expansion.
Nor do I want to see formerly neutral Canada being forced into hostilities at Uncle Sam's call, and on NATO's leash over another ridiculously imperialist circus.

As a letter writer to the Star has pointed out recently, alliance system means that if Georgia was a NATO member, Canada would be forced to war.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski, after signing an agreement to build a U.S. missile-defence base in Poland