But tax cuts are not going to quell my taxpayer rage. The high taxes are not the problem. If they were, I could find a job in the states in two hours. The problem is that we in Canada pay through the noses in tax, yet we're not getting value for the money.

We have one of the most punitive tax rates on the planet, and what do we get for it? Patients shipped down to the US for treatment, because our hospitals can't handle them, 10 hour waits in the emergency room and 12 month queues for an MRI, Canadian troops spraypainting their equipment brown, severe shortages of low income housing in Toronto, deteriorating highways and transit service, etc etc etc etc.

Oh.

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At the rage stage (catchy; somebody oughta make a song) we'll be marching on Ottawa, with pitchforks.

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We have one of the most punitive tax rates on the planet.

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[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

It's difficult though, to break down taxation to just a bar graph. The tax laws are a lot more complex than just, say 30% off of gross pay. There's taxable benefits that increase your taxable gross (such as group term life insurance). Revenue Canada tries to get it's hands on as much as possible. For example, parking in your employer's parking lot is considered a taxable benefit, and your employer is supposed to determine what that parking costs, and add it to your income.

Another interesting tax difference between Canada and the US is that in the states, interest paid on your mortgage is tax deductible. In the first years of home ownership, when the bulk of your mortgage payment goes to interest, this can be significant break on income tax. Canada is sadly behind on this one.

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: sheep ]

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i don't need no stinkin' graphs to be pig bitin' mad about my taxes!

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I could take a gander down Stateside and I’d run into a cookie cutter clone of you there, even though they have some of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world.

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You will be hard pressed to find someone quite like me anywhere in the world

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[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

To me, income tax is just another deduction off my paycheque, most of which I get back as a refund after I file. I don't really pay attention to the amount that comes off my cheque.

I just figure taxes are part of living in one of the greatest countries in the world.

High rent, I'll complain about.

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: Andy Social ]

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I must admit that I know nothing about filing my taxes. I usually try to do it on my own but find that if I were to work it out five times I'd get 5 drastically different results.

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[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

And since we are complaining about taxes here, someone has yet to bring up the obvious point, beautifully illustrated in my last graph: us single income earners are overtaxed. Like, I don’t get it. People choose to have kids. They should understand that kids cost money. So why should they pay less tax then us? What’s up with that? Why should I subsidize someone elses bratty, stupid kids?

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

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People choose to have kids. They should understand that kids cost money. So why should they pay less tax then us? What’s up with that? Why should I subsidize someone elses bratty, stupid kids?

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People choose to have kids. They should understand that kids cost money. So why should they pay less tax then us? What’s up with that? Why should I subsidize someone elses bratty, stupid kids?

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It's a circle of life thing. One generation subsidies another to then in turn in old age be subsidized by them.

I'm subsidizing people's kids, people's parents, people's businesses... the list doesn't end! I'm tax oppressed!

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Unless you're being sarcastic

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Canada’s uncompetitive tax situation

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Source

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

These figures include the amount of employer-paid social security contributions.

and the Canadian figures are adjusted to the American dollar.

Calling know-it-alls!!! Help, help!

edited: why would payroll taxes include personal income tax deductions?

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

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why would payroll taxes include personal income tax deductions?

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Because an employer is required to withhold your income tax and needs to determine your personal tax deduction eligibility . When you submit your TD1 to your employer, this determines your taxation status in regard to how your payroll taxes are calculated. You submit requests for reduction of income taxes at source for things like alimony payments, directly to your employer, who bears the responisbility to withhold and remit to the government on your behalf.

edited to add

Whoops, I mean, after the CCRA has approved your request for a reduction in taxes at source, you then submit to your employer

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: sheep ]

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Social Security Contributions and Payroll Taxes. Contributions to the federal unemployment plan are 4.2% of employee wages for the employer, up to a maximum contribution of $Cdn 1,780.00, and 3% for the employee, up to a maximum contribution of $Cdn 1,271.40. Contributions to retirement pensions under the Canada Pension Plan or its Québec equivalent are 2.7% of employee wages for both the employer and the employee, up to a maximum contribution of $Cdn 850.50. For self-employed individuals, the rate is 5% and the maximum contribution $Cdn 1,701.00. Contributions to health insurance plans and workers' compensation funds are also payable; amounts vary depending on the province.

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• these deductions along with your share of CPP contributions and EI premiums that you have to pay throughout the year on your employees' behalf (see the guide called Remitting Payroll Deductions);

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Payroll deductions and payroll taxes are two separate things. An employer does withold employee premiums, but those are not employer payroll taxes.

I'm right I tells ya! Believe in me and I will show you the promised land!

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

Tax deductions for kids? WOW. What a scandle.

I'd also like to be able to get deductions for the depreciation of my household appliances, my vehicle, my gas, my lunches, my work clothes, but apparently, being working class I'm not allowed those goodies that other, more equal people are given.

Ok, I see you guys have hashed out the tax thing, but permit me to barge in and be technical and maybe redundant.

Income tax is strictly defined as a levy on your gross income.

Payroll tax is a separate tax, levied (usually at a flat rate) for a specific purpose. In general the distinguishing characteristic of a payroll tax is that there is an employer/employee split in the payroll tax so that part of the payroll tax is met by the employer and part of it is met by the employee in the form of additional deductions.

All clear? Good.

I found some updated data from 2000 that shows the G7 countries and their relative tax burdens.

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: DrConway ]

Actually, while I'm dicking around here, if someone would like to explain to me why there is all this whitespace between the table and the first "??" it would be much appreciated.

??

Test

h1	h2
r1c1.....	r1c2
r2c1	r2c2....

??

[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

First up: Payroll taxes in G7 countries

Consumption taxes in G7 countries

Corporate taxes in G7 countries

[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: DrConway ]

Gee, maybe if they realized the USA has generally higher payroll taxes they'd shut the hell up and ask if Alan Greenspan's relatively looser monetary policy might just have something to do with the USA's lower unemployment rate rather than their bogeyman of payroll taxes.

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Contributions to the federal unemployment plan are 4.2% of employee wages for the employer, up to a maximum contribution of $Cdn 1,780.00, and 3% for the employee, up to a maximum contribution of $Cdn 1,271.40.

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Employers can apply to have their premium lowered (i.e. to 1.2 x ee contribution)depending on the type of sick and short term disability plans (known as wage replacement plans) they offer to their employers. A well managed sick time plan can significantly reduce your tax expenditures in this area.

can't believe I'm taking time out of my amsterdam vacation to talk about tax laws!!!!!!!!!!!

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ps-taxes are too lower in the United States!!!!!

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[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: clockwork ]

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So, tell me? what are the payroll taxes like in the Netherlands? Does they discuss payroll taxes in, uh, those "coffee" shops?

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taxes are pretty high here, as is the cost of living...but most of the people in the coffee shop where I'm writing this seem to be pretty happy!!!

That table leaves out the lower-end marginal tax rates. See that one for a rather poorly worded summary of all the marginal tax rates.

[ 25 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

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*snerk* Death to the taxman!!

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I know this is an old thread but hey hey now. Taxlady taxman... they live and breathe among you.

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I must admit that I know nothing about filing my taxes. I usually try to do it on my own but find that if I were to work it out five times I'd get 5 drastically different results. Instead I just send something in and let them fix it. Problem with this is that Revenue Canada doesn't seem to be much better at figuring out taxes than I am. Each year I receive one or two revisions from RC which usually end with me owing them more money.

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he he. Suckers.

Just me, wisecracking.....

.......let's get back to this....oh, much later in the year, okay......

They were given some kind of special treatment, anyway.

Not that the persons reviewing my tax return would do that. They are consumate professionals, who at worst, are only doing what they are required to do by law. They are intelligent, kind people, and to a person, enviably attractive.

But, if you have 2 children don't they automatically consume more services. More medical, more schooling, etc. So shouldn't families pay more? Why should I subsidize someone else's children?

1. Eliminate all personal, corporate, and other taxes except sales taxes.
2. Apply a sales tax of, say, 40% (or whatever would be initally revenue neutral) to each and every purchase made in Canada, including the big one, stocks and business transactions.
3. Watch the cash roll in.

You buy a loaf of bread for a dollar? Pay your buck forty. You flip $1,000,000 dollars worth of Air Canada stock, thats $1,400,000 thank you. Thew government buys $50,000,000 of restorations for Old City Hall in Toronto, thats $70-mil. Buy a transit token, 30%, buy a BMW, the same 30%.

No deductions, no exemptions, no problem. Consumption taxes have never been less regressive. Simple as pie.

Seriously though, I don't complain about taxes. Its the freight for living here.

Edit: I really do have to learn how to proof read.

[ 06 February 2003: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]

So we know right there that this tax credit is in place to give a break to single parents.

Your child cannot have a net income of more than $649 ( otherwise there is a calc that reduces how much you can deduct) and if their income is over approx $6000, you can't deduct them at all.

It is a non refundable tax credit so if you aren't paying taxes, you do not benefit.

There is also the Child tax Benefit... I don't know what that is all about though

We've had this arguement before. Everyone has a reason why they think they should be special and exempt from this tax or that tax or all tax.

I say a graduated system, where you make "X" and pay "Y%" of "X".

ie:

Rabble Land 2002 Income Tax Return

Name ________________
Address ______________
Phone Number ( if you have one ) ____

How much money you made in 2002 ______

Whenever I've had friends or aquaintences on the "inside" of something, I've never had the gall to ask for this favour or that.

I just want people to understand the complexities of our voluntary tax system and why the government does things the way they do.

So anyway. The tax geek has a question for other tax geeks.

If I have a whole whack of unused tuition and education and I transfer this year's to my mom, can I still roll over the previous years indefinitely?

PS. Check this out. It's got the top marginal tax rates for various kinds of income. Isn't it just absolutely sick how capital gains is given such an easy ride?

[ 25 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

In Ontario, we have the federal CPP & EI plus the provincial EHT & Workers Compensation Premiums (WSIB)

The employer and employee share of CPP is currently at around 5% each (note there is a basic $3,500 annual). This has been rising each year to cover the shortfall. The EI rate for employees is currently around 2% which makes the employer rate just short of 3% (unless as discussed above the employer has a disability plan and is approved for the lower multiple of around 1.25 which makes the employer rate around 2.5%). The EI rate has been dropping each year due to the large surplus in the fund. EI is not paid on the salaries of employees who own a significant percentage of the company and if approved family members of the owners (as they would, in most likelihood not be able to collect EI) It should be noted that once an employee reaches just below $40,000 in gross wages the responsibility for CPP & EI ends. EHT is 1.95% of gross wages paid by the employer less a basic $400,000 exemption (to be shared among all associated employers - so your mom & dad corner store would generally pay no EHT). WSIB premiums vary by industry based on actuarial principles and the employer doesn't have to pay premiums on an employee once they reach $60,000. Also WSIB premiums are optional for corporate officers (however if no WSIB is paid then the offier can not claim benefits). Finally, there can be adjustments to WSIB if the employers accident claim history is better or worse than the industry average.

SO if a company had 20 employees making $50,000/year for a total payroll of $1,000,000 their payroll tax burden would be about:

CPP ($40,000 - $3,500)*5% or about $1,800 per employee or $36,000 total
EI would be $40,000* 3% or about $1,200 per employee or $24,000 total
EHT would be ($1,000,000-$400,000)*1.95% or about $12,000 total
WSIB (say a relatively modest industry with a 2% rate) would eb $1,000,000 @ 2% or $20,000

Thus total payroll taxes on $1,000,000 of payroll in this case would be about $90,000 or 9%.

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Originally posted by DrConway:
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PS. Check this out. It's got the top marginal tax rates for various kinds of income. Isn't it just absolutely sick how capital gains is given such an easy ride?

[ 25 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

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Originally posted by DrConway:
*badump bump bump*

So anyway. The tax geek has a question for other tax geeks.

If I have a whole whack of unused tuition and education and I transfer this year's to my mom, can I still roll over the previous years indefinitely?
[ 25 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

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Yes.

If you have say $7,000 from 2002 and $6,000 for 2003 and don't need any to claim for yourself you can transfer the $5,000 to your mom and then carryforward the $7,000 from 2002 and the remaining $1,000 for 2003 for a total of $8,000 to 2004 (see schedule 11)

If you only had $3,000 for 2003 - you only can transfer $3,000 to your mom - you can not transfer amounts from prior years.

Pant pant.

I think we get a pretty decent bang for buck ratio, to be honest. Corruption is always disgusting and we should be vigilant about it, but overall we get a lot of benefits from our taxes.

It does hurt when it comes off each check, but it would hurt more to be paying a toll at every highway, taking your credit card to the hospital with you, and having to save up for your child's elementary school education, not to mention university.

I get a little tired of the whinging about taxes, to be honest. If we were to start cutting taxes, which would be fine (assuming we could afford it), I'd say START with the GST and PSTs, move on to raising the basic personal exemption (as much as possible, as often as possible). Balance that off with bumping corporate taxes up a bit.

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Originally posted by candle:
If you only had $3,000 for 2003 - you only can transfer $3,000 to your mom - you can not transfer amounts from prior years.

Note if your taxable income exceeds your basic credits then you are obligated to use the 2002 carryforward to the extent of the excess.

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The deal is, I only got paid a piddly $2000 total for 2003, which doesn't even touch the basic exemption. So if I can transfer my tuition and education for 2003 only, and roll over everything accumulated from 2001-2002, that benefits me later and benefits my mom now. (I knew you couldn't transfer amounts from prior years, but what concerned me was that I would lose my rollovers if I transferred 2003's amounts)

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

Question is, this time, if my tuition & education plus my brother's tuition & education both go to my mom, can we simply transfer our totals right up to the last dollar and potentially allow my mom to get a refund instead of owing tax?

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the two times I was unemployed and had to collect EI, the post-secondary education, the streetlights, the crosswalks, the air traffic controllers that keep me alive when I fly over to visit my folks, the security doofuses at the airport that look at other people's stuff all day to find bombs, the thousands of kilometers of highways I use and have used, the 3 times I've gone into emergency, the time I had to take a friend into emergency, the time I took my wife in there.

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
[QUIBBLE]Doofues
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Doofents?
Doofenti?
Doofenters?

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
[QUIBBLE]

EI - Insurance Premium, not tax
Air Traffic Controllers - NAVCAN surcharge on airline tickets
Security Doofues - Most airports pay these guys privately, with little or no fed funding.
Highways - Gas Taxes & Surtaxes
[/QUIBBLE]

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Ok, I know I'll NEVER be able to complain about EI.

Air Traffic: How long would it take me to find someone who describes the extra charges on a ticket as a 'tax'?

Highways: Are you sure about that?

The (ahem) doofi may be paid for by the airport, but who regulates them? What about the RCMP at the airport? Customs?

Quibbles, yes, but the point was most of us don't have much to complain about re: taxes and fees.

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Question is, this time, if my tuition & education plus my brother's tuition & education both go to my mom, can we simply transfer our totals right up to the last dollar and potentially allow my mom to get a refund instead of owing tax?

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Yes you can pick and chose what you transfer to your mom so long as neither you nor your brother need the credit for yourself. You can sede at the bottom of schedule 11 that you figure out how much you mom can get from you and then you can chose how much she puts on line 324 from you.

Your mom cannot have more than $10,000 on her line 324 if there are two students. If your brother is married he has to transfer to his spouse first before mom.

You know how your non refundable tax credits are in the 300's and your tax return and how the basic exemption starts in the low 300's? There is a priority for credits based on how low in the 300's the credit is.

For example, medical expenses are on line 330. If you have a whackload of eligible med expenses to claim and you want to carry foward your tuition and claim med expenses first, CCRA won't let you because tuition is on line 323 and it comes before 330.

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
EI - Insurance Premium, not tax
Air Traffic Controllers - NAVCAN surcharge on airline tickets
Security Doofues - Most airports pay these guys privately, with little or no fed funding.
Highways - Gas Taxes & Surtaxes

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The basic point is, it's largely government money and government initiative that makes these programs go.

NAVCAN is a nonprofit run by the government, as far as I know, and the airports, to my knowledge, are associated with NAVCAN.

As for highways, just because gas taxes pay for them and just cuz surtaxes pay for them does not obviate the fact that a government body initiated and executed their planning and construction.

Every time I step on a concrete sidewalk I benefit from government action.

Every time I step on a bus, I benefit from government action.

Hell, I have benefitted more than most from the government. In my early years, it was government-paid speech therapists that taught me how to talk properly so you all fine people can understand me if, by some cosmic circumstance, we actually bump into each other. It was also the government that provided me the necessary extra equipment to let me hear my teachers in high school.

Finally, the government also ran a program that paid for my technical school education, of which the result is my chemical engineering diploma out of BCIT.

Since then, of course, the government has killed most of those programs dead, or left them on life support. Future hearing impaired individuals will be less well-equipped than I to deal with the hearing world.

Oh well, I guess your TAX CUT is more important than the fact that a bunch of deaf kids got kicked in the ass, right sheep and Heywood?

[ 07 March 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

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Originally posted by DrConway:

PS. Check this out. It's got the top marginal tax rates for various kinds of income. Isn't it just absolutely sick how capital gains is given such an easy ride?

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:

See, this is why I figure if you form a co-operative what you need to do is have everyone own a share in the "company". Then you pay everyone minimum wage, and then have the rest of their pay distributed as regular dividends. Capital gains, taxable at much less.

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[ 08 March 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]

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Heywood, if gas taxes went directly to roads then we in Saskatchewan with a $0.15 gas tax would have much nicer roads than Alberta with a $0.09 gas tax.

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You do have nicer roads..... if you own an autobody shop.

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
[QUIBBLE]

EI - Insurance Premium, not tax

[/QUIBBLE]

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